Madigan's MOTM performance

First topic message reminder :

Last night, I think we witnessed the coming of age of this young, trend setting, flyhalf. Saturday night's performance, had everything, from place kicking(6 from 6), to a little chip kick on his own try line(Cooper-esque), to scoring a result defining try.From start to finish, he looked every bit the real deal, in what was his most complete performance on a rugby field.
After watching Jackson's meltdown on Friday, and Madigan's on Saturday, it makes Kidney's decision to pick Jackson all the more ludicrous.I now feel confident that with Sexton gone for Leinster, MAD DOG-Madigan can grow and grow the same way Sexton did after Contepomi's departure in 2009.
Due to the serious lack of quality in the outhalf department, I wouldn't rule out Madigan touring Australia with the Lions!

Actually rodders did earls not have some decent heineken games under his belt at the time. I'm not arguing about madigan here but I thought earls had starred in the munster decimation of ospreys in the heineken 1/4s before the last lions tour

I'm not looking to wum but it just won't happen, there's too many better players who've proved it on a higher stage that are ahead of him.

Did I not read somewhere yesterday that Gatland has said he's only taking two 10's? If that is the case, then Madigan 100% will not be going.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Did I not read somewhere yesterday that Gatland has said he's only taking two 10's? If that is the case, then Madigan 100% will not be going.

If thats the case its a no brainer. He would surely have to have someone like Laidlaw or Hook in the squad if thats the case.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3JpaszVJaM4
Cooper playing the same high risk game!When successful you're praised as a skillful, high risk player,
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ldqFm2Ajxs
After a while, this happens!

Madigan should be going with Ireland to play alongside Marshall, Henshaw, Gilroy etc this summer. Any other talk is premature

red_stag wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Did I not read somewhere yesterday that Gatland has said he's only taking two 10's? If that is the case, then Madigan 100% will not be going.

If thats the case its a no brainer. He would surely have to have someone like Laidlaw or Hook in the squad if thats the case.

That's my understanding Stag, and is what happened in 09, when Hook was there as 3rd choice 10 cover. It also indicates to me that Conor Murray may miss out. I think Phillips is a given, and Gatland will also take either Youngs or Care, as a completely different alternative to Phillips. If that is the case, then Laidlaw has to go in order to give the squad enough cover at 10.

Care offers more than Youngs IMO. I dont expect Murray to tour.

Laidlaw, Phillips, Care.

Madigan a LION!!!!???? After one game?????

Just remember...people have been Lions that have done very little as one.

So the gasps of disbelief???........... please. Order in the establishment please and let's not deify a Lions shirt, it's been worn by some ordinary gentlemen in its day.

Madigan won't go with the Lions. But he'd be more than able to handle himself adequately if he did. The rest - the heroic stuff that gets written down for the ages? - well, none of the players know who the heros will be. That's the future.

I think Laidlaw will travel regardless. He's a quality game-managing scrum half.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think Laidlaw will travel regardless. He's a quality game-managing scrum half.

+1

This is a 6 minute highlights clip of the Leinster-Glasgow game, haven't looked yet to see if the chip from behind the line is on it but Leinster TV usually leave in the good bits

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/9504.php

Excellent post BODisGOD, I agree mad-dog madigan looks set for a first class ticket to perth in what will surely be a jet plane covered in red and filled with lions. And BTW Mad dog played at fullback in the back to back games against clermont in the heino, which must have been high pressure games ffs like!He was easily our most dangerous player in both of those games

Great minds think alike eh?

I don't think I'd be going as far as the Lions,
He didn't start a six nations game, won't be playing in H-cup either.
If we say Sexton and Farrell are going, the 3rd choice Flyhalf will most likily be Bigger, and Hook would prob tour as ulity back, (FH, OC FB)
Meaning don't really require a 5th FH.

Last tour had 4 wingers, I'd say bolter is more likily Zebo or Gilroy than Madigan

I think Lions talk is slightly premature, he needs to back that performance up between now and the end of the season, but I do think he's shown Kidney's selection of Jackson at 10 for Ireland (and certainly the decision to have ROG on the bench against Scotland) to be flawed.

Several Scots fans, myself and George Carlin in particular from memory, made it clear ahead of the Scotland game that of all the options available for Ireland, Madigan was the one we least wanted to face. He has something about him, and whilst Jackson is a very promising young player, Madigan just looks ready. I've seen him only a few times this season, but each time I've been impressed. He needs as much game time as Leinster can throw his way, even if it means being shunted to 12 when Sexton returns. Great potential. I've often given Irish fans a hard time for overrating their young players (and the calls for Madigan to go on the Lions tour overstep the mark in my view), but this lad is special, and will push Sexton every inch of the way in the coming years.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think Lions talk is slightly premature, he needs to back that performance up between now and the end of the season, but I do think he's shown Kidney's selection of Jackson at 10 for Ireland (and certainly the decision to have ROG on the bench against Scotland) to be flawed.

Several Scots fans, myself and George Carlin in particular from memory, made it clear ahead of the Scotland game that of all the options available for Ireland, Madigan was the one we least wanted to face. He has something about him, and whilst Jackson is a very promising young player, Madigan just looks ready. I've seen him only a few times this season, but each time I've been impressed. He needs as much game time as Leinster can throw his way, even if it means being shunted to 12 when Sexton returns. Great potential. I've often given Irish fans a hard time for overrating their young players (and the calls for Madigan to go on the Lions tour overstep the mark in my view), but this lad is special, and will push Sexton every inch of the way in the coming years.

Between now and the time Sexton is back available (should be early May) Madigan will have played pretty much all of every game (touch wood), potentially Sexton could come back with only a league SF and/or final and/or Amlin cup final left to play.

That's positive for Madigan if it works out. Young players need to play to develop, and he's now at the stage of needing more gamtime, particularly high pressure end of season games, to become a better player.

Sexton's injury is almost convenient. Hopefully enough time for him to freshen up and rehab ahead of the Lions, and yet there are likely to be a couple of big end of season games to get him ready. Meanwhile plenty few games to allow Madigan to improve.

I think the ideal for Irish rugby would be Sexton playing for the Lions with Madigan wearing the green of Ireland over the summer (Jackson his back-up).

I fully agree. Madigan will shine against the likes of America and Canada and will benefit from prolonged exposure to the international set up.

Who toured and played with Ireland in Australia before he played for his Province?

Who picked him?

I repeat...talking about players joining or not joining the Lions is a discussion..the idea that naming any player is 'overstepping the mark' is......well, it's overstepping the mark

SecretFly wrote:Who toured and played with Ireland in Australia before he played for his Province?

Who picked him?

I repeat...talking about players joining or not joining the Lions is a discussion..the idea that naming any player is 'overstepping the mark' is......well, it's overstepping the mark

Drico?

Gatland also invited Darcy to tour SA with Ireland before he had even finished school. Darcy declined as he had to do his leaving cert.

Yes that was Drico, and the last player to do it was…. Michael Bent.

Just to add some balance.

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Who toured and played with Ireland in Australia before he played for his Province?

Who picked him?

I repeat...talking about players joining or not joining the Lions is a discussion..the idea that naming any player is 'overstepping the mark' is......well, it's overstepping the mark

Drico?

Gatland invited Darcy to tour SA with Ireland before he had even finished school. Darcy declined as he had to do his leaving cert.

Sorry but you guys are way off here. The Lions is a one off tour, whereas there was a long term objective to the other tours that justified throwing in young players.

Potential won't factor in selection here. Madigans ability to cover 10 and 15 may give him a very outside chance but I doubt it.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Who toured and played with Ireland in Australia before he played for his Province?

Who picked him?

I repeat...talking about players joining or not joining the Lions is a discussion..the idea that naming any player is 'overstepping the mark' is......well, it's overstepping the mark

Drico?

Gatland invited Darcy to tour SA with Ireland before he had even finished school. Darcy declined as he had to do his leaving cert.

Sorry but you guys are way off here. The Lions is a one off tour, whereas there was a long term objective to the other tours that justified throwing in young players.

Potential won't factor in selection here. Madigans ability to cover 10 and 15 may give him a very outside chance but I doubt it.

Nobody is claiming the Lions is going to be used as a development tour. Madigan offers something different to all other available OHs. Thats why he might tour.

The point is that his "inexperience" wont necessarly prevent him from touring as it didnt for the likes of Earls, Millar, Ollie Smith, John bentley etc.

Rodders... I'm not saying Madigan will go. I believe he won't. And I'll enjoy seeing him play for Ireland instead IF he does. BUT..it's the ooh and ahhs of disgust when the idea is mentioned that is a little OTT.

The Man..for that is what Madigan is - a Man of 23 years of age. - Cuthbert is 22, North is 20. - The man would be well able to handle himself in a Lions game. We all say that International disappoints us here in NH when you compare it to the highest levels in club (HEC levels). And that's true. So he won't travel in my opinion but I wouldn't be fretting if he was chosen.


It's the 'nonsense' tag applied to the idea of Madigan traveling that's being a tad overdone here.

SecretFly wrote:
It's the 'nonsense' tag applied to the idea of Madigan traveling that's being a tad overdone here.

No its not nonsence at all, everyone has a chance. I'm just pointing out that the comparison with Drico is maybe not accurate.

Madigans ability to slot in at 15 and centre certainly makes him a bolter.

To be clear I would be ok with him being picked - it is the knee jrk reaction that he should be picked based on one performance I dont buy. That woudl be true of any player.

Gatland needs to look at a number of facts - form, experience, fitness before deciding each position.

All are important very few players have all 3.
I have excluded skill - hopefully that is a fundamental requirement to being considered.

geoff998rugby wrote:To be clear I would be ok with him being picked - it is the knee jrk reaction that he should be picked based on one performance I dont buy. That woudl be true of any player.

Gatland needs to look at a number of facts - form, experience, fitness before deciding each position.

All are important very few players have all 3.
I have excluded skill - hopefully that is a fundamental requirement to being considered.

Its not though because madigan clearly has a different skill set to the other options. Specifically he takes the ball to the line and makes breaks better than anyone and his try scoring record at OH clearly demonstrates this.

I'm not been funny but Madigan is playing well in the Rabo, this is a long long way from Int rugby.

He may have a different skill set but so does Freddie Burns and I wouldn't suggest he had a sniff of touring(he's actually a better player to Madigan imo).

I think Gatland will pick more surprises than perhaps people think. He's a coach that likes to prove he has a nose for talent that other coaches might overlook, and would pick accordingly.

As a general, I don't regard Lions as a big notch up in ability needed...it's Internationals from four Nations playing together. It can work and it can be a disaster but it doesn't require supermen - it requires very good hard working players, a good training and preparation schedule and a good plan.

So yes, it would be a bloody eejit that said Madigan should go on his performance in one game...albeit, some Welsh players will be going on just such a toss of the coin! ...but yes, it would be foolish.

The point is though that Madigan didn't produce that one performance out of some unknown shade of blue. He's not a new guy who has done something that wasn't expected of him. He has a track record. He's bloody good..he could have a desperate end of season, he might have no form next year at all...but basing it in the now; he'd be as good a wildcard pick based on attitude, natural ability and form as any other.

But if I know Gatland, he'll have a few controversal 'unknowns'.... I'll be disappointed in the rebel in him if he doesn't.

Anyone else think Ian Humphries is in with a shout?

I don't think Madigan will go on the Lions. Don't want him to. Want him to play for Ireland in the Summer.

Yeah...Ian should be on the plane all being well.

Humphries that is.....

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm not been funny but Madigan is playing well in the Rabo, this is a long long way from Int rugby.
He may have a different skill set but so does Freddie Burns and I wouldn't suggest he had a sniff of touring(he's actually a better player to Madigan imo).

Have you seen Ireland play in recent years? Believe me, Pro12 and HEC memories are just about all any of the Irish boys, who might get picked, will be picked on

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm not been funny but Madigan is playing well in the Rabo, this is a long long way from Int rugby.

He may have a different skill set but so does Freddie Burns and I wouldn't suggest he had a sniff of touring(he's actually a better player to Madigan imo).

Freddy Burns is good alright, maybe the best OH in England. I hadnt forgotten about him. He too offers something else.

Madigan has been playing well all season but lately he has stepped up another level. With more time at 10 he has been given the chance to work on his weaknesses while improving on what he does best.


The Lions talk is a bit premature. He is talented but not tested under extreme pressure yet. He does have the x factor you can't coach but I'm sure Gatland will want to pick more experienced internationals at 10 and theremight not even be any bolters this time because Gatland has plenty of optionsin every position. If he was selected it would make Kidney look even more stupid.


He is being compared to Quade Cooper which to some people is an insult but I'd look at it as a compliment. Cooper just lacks a brain but he has been the difference in his teams winning many matches.


I'd like to see Madigan playin the same team as Noel Reid a bit more!

Burns cant tackle - until becomes something other than a revolving door he is going to be very limited internationally

profitius wrote:
He is being compared to Quade Cooper which to some people is an insult but I'd look at it as a compliment. Cooper just lacks a brain but he has been the difference in his teams winning many matches.


I'd like to see Madigan playin the same team as Noel Reid a bit more!

I have never been sure about Cooper. What he did with the Reds was awesome. Some of what he pulled off in a red jersey was brazen to the extreme and a joy to watch. However, he hasnt ever really done it for Australia, at least not enough for International level.

Hopefully Madigan will not meet with the same fate when he does start picking up International caps.

geoff998rugby wrote:Burns cant tackle - until becomes something other than a revolving door he is going to be very limited internationally

I agree to a point Geoff, Burns has struggled a little with his defence this season.

It kind of backs up my thoughts on Madigan though. Burns has played at a higher a level for a continued amount of time and weaknesses have been seen in his game.

Madigan has had some good games in the Rabo but is an unknown quantity at the top level.

Some truth in that - a trip to Canada with Ireland seems far more logical to me

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Burns cant tackle - until becomes something other than a revolving door he is going to be very limited internationally

I agree to a point Geoff, Burns has struggled a little with his defence this season.

It kind of backs up my thoughts on Madigan though. Burns has played at a higher a level for a continued amount of time and weaknesses have been seen in his game.

Madigan has had some good games in the Rabo but is an unknown quantity at the top level.

Burns hasnt played at a higher level at all. He plays for Gloucester who certainly do not play at as high a level as Leinster and there is no evidence to suggest the AP is a better league than the Rabo. Madigan has played in two Heineken cup finals and multiple Heineken cup matchs. He also has more international caps than Burns.

Madigans defense is good. He is deceptively strong for a little nuggety lad.

I disagree on that Guns, I think week in week out the AP is a much tougher testing ground for a 10.

I digress though, the point I was trying to make is Burns should not be considered for the Lions as he's not played at a high enough level and therefore Madigan should not either.

Both are extremely talented but an unknown quantity.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I disagree on that Guns, I think week in week out the AP is a much tougher testing ground for a 10.

I digress though, the point I was trying to make is Burns should not be considered for the Lions as he's not played at a high enough level and therefore Madigan should not either.

Both are extremely talented but an unknown quantity.

The AP has shown to be similar, if not worse in standard, than the Rabo. Just look at the Heineken cup table over the past 5 years, there haven been far more Rabo teams in the knock out stages than teams in the AP.
O'Gara got picked in 2001, and was largely an "unknown quantity" as-well.

"The AP has shown to be similar, if not worse in standard, than the Rabo. Just look at the Heineken cup table over the past 5 years, there haven been far more Rabo teams in the knock out stages than teams in the AP"

Funnily enough the HC is a different competition to the Rabo.

I don't want to get into a Rabo v AP debate anyway.

THE POINT IS....

Madigan should not be selected for the Lions as he has not played CONSTANTLY enough at high enough level to be fully tested.

He is a considrable talent though, he'll gain more from getting some game time for Ireland in the summer.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"The AP has shown to be similar, if not worse in standard, than the Rabo. Just look at the Heineken cup table over the past 5 years, there haven been far more Rabo teams in the knock out stages than teams in the AP"

Funnily enough the HC is a different competition to the Rabo.

I don't want to get into a Rabo v AP debate anyway.

THE POINT IS....

Madigan should not be selected for the Lions as he has not played CONSTANTLY enough at high enough level to be fully tested.

He is a considrable talent though, he'll gain more from getting some game time for Ireland in the summer.

Think you are about right there Pooly. The guy has one crackin game and suddenly he is god.

In fairness It's not his first good game, but he was no one 18 months ago. He has outrageous talent, but still a couple of rough edges to his game.

I believe he will develop to a very high standard, next season will be exciting for him, and for us watching him. Feck it the rest of this season will be good too.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

I believe he will develop to a very high standard, next season will be exciting for him, and for us watching him. Feck it the rest of this season will be good too.

IF..the dreaded Irish injury curse doesn't hit him!

Does anyone know what happens if the Lions coaches want to select any player?

I mean, do they just approach the players directly or are the home unions or teams/provinces which pay them consulted in any way?

Id very much assume courtesy is applied Mrs P... I'd be surprised if Unions and even clubs were consulted when players are being thought about.

I'd assume even formal invitations of sorts have to be used when Gatland joined the Irish squad in the run up to the Italy game. Unions/clubs are giving players; players wouldn't be free agents when under contracts...I'd assume...

SecretFly wrote:Id very much assume courtesy is applied Mrs P... I'd be surprised if Unions and even clubs were consulted when players are being thought about.

I'd assume even formal invitations of sorts have to be used when Gatland joined the Irish squad in the run up to the Italy game. Unions/clubs are giving players; players wouldn't be free agents when under contracts...I'd assume...

I believe that the Lions have a formal agreement in place with the home Unions and Sanzar Unions for the tours in advance, current deal runs for 3 more tours I think. The home Unions make a lot of money from the Lions, which I suppose they use to compensate clubs, Regions etc.

The Lions then send out the invitations directly to the selected players. The Unions wouldn't be consulted on a players availability for a given tour if thats what you are asking. The Lions have the pick of the players as per agreement.