Strategy for NZ Rugby to 2016

by Taylorman Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:44 pm

Main points (from Reunion tonight) from the NZRFU strategy to 2016.

1 Back to back World Cup wins
2 2 gold medals in Rio for the 7's
3 Rugby in NZ is financially healthy
4 Rugby is the sport of choice in wider Auckland
5 Rugby brings communities together and is the sport of choice for teenagers

Also announced a 3.2m profit- first time since 2008.

For me the biggest is no. 4 where Henry must have made a push as League has a setup that is drawing players away in addition to an increasing number of players going to Japan, UK, France etc.

by dallym Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:03 pm

crap, forgot it was on. will have to record a replay

The two onfield goals are possible, though of course they won't be easy to achieve.
We should get the game being financially healthy as long as we don't spend AIG's money recklessly
As for 4 & 5, don't know. There's competition with football/soccer and rugby league. For me growing up in Te-Atatu (West Auckland) we focussed on rugby league but did union at school too because it's just as fun. With the U20s in the league it may be tough to hold onto some of the youngsters coming through (Roger Tuivasa Sheck and Konrad Hurrell being notable examples). Thanks to AIG we have the money to achieve those aims

by Taylorman Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:14 pm

Not so sure about the second gold at the Olympics. I dont believe Womens 7's has the depth and history to warrant a gold medal. Theyre riding on the coat tails of the mens game which has fought long and hard over the last 30 years or so to become recognised. Theres a huge gulf in the skill levels, especially after watching our Nationals- the first televised I believe.

by Taylorman Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:20 pm

dallym wrote: For me growing up in Te-Atatu (West Auckland) we focussed on rugby league but did union at school too because it's just as fun.

I grew up a hundred yards from Mad's first butcher shop on Massey Road- Mangere East Hawks territory but played Otahuhu rugby. Peter Leitch actually sponsored our youth sides 18 or so as he had a couple of his apprentice butchers in our side so he he was a supporter of both back then- the Hawks his personal baby of course. Thats one fulla who's never changed all these years. Still exactly the same- a highly motivated, crazy league supporter and entrepreneur extraordinaire!

by disneychilly Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:49 pm

Should have three goals. Well four but the last goes without saying

Grow the game locally and globally
Make sustainable profits
Our teams to become the best in the world in their fields.

The All Blacks to beat the living shoite out of everyone, every game Very Happy

Seriously though with the NZ dollar being so high at the moment it'd be a good idea to sniff around the US and see what they can do. Hopefully guys like Carlin Isles can help grow the game there. Dunno if any NFL teams have Adidas contracts but some promotional work there could be a go. The Yanks love their stats so they'll be naturally interested in quite possibly the team with the best winning record in sport.

by **George Carlin** Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:04 pm

Taylor - why are they so worried about Auckland in particular?

I honestly agree with Disney that they should prioritise touring in parts of the world that they never have done before. They are the world'd biggest global brand and do have a responsibility for helping to grow interest in the global game. Playing a test against each of Georgia, Romania, Russia and Spain for example (ranked 17th to 20th in the world respectively) would mean the world to these countries. Time to give back.

They last played Tonga in 2011 (before that, it was 2003), Samoa in 2008 (before that, 2001) and Fiji in 2011 (before that, 2005). Not particularly impressive close to home, either.

Don't get me wrong, I know that everyone wants a piece of them, but the schedulers need to take the blinkers off a little.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:57 pm

George Carlin wrote:Taylor - why are they so worried about Auckland in particular?

I honestly agree with Disney that they should prioritise touring in parts of the world that they never have done before. They are the world'd biggest global brand and do have a responsibility for helping to grow interest in the global game. Playing a test against each of Georgia, Romania, Russia and Spain for example (ranked 17th to 20th in the world respectively) would mean the world to these countries. Time to give back.

They last played Tonga in 2011 (before that, it was 2003), Samoa in 2008 (before that, 2001) and Fiji in 2011 (before that, 2005). Not particularly impressive close to home, either.

Don't get me wrong, I know that everyone wants a piece of them, but the schedulers need to take the blinkers off a little.

George, South Auckland is the greatest nursery of rugby talent on the planet. Players from there may move away to make thier names, but that's the nursery. If League/football etc keep increasing their "take" of the talent (and Aussie league scouts regularly visit) that'll hurt NZ (and Australian and PI) rugby union down the track.

by **George Carlin** Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:59 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Taylor - why are they so worried about Auckland in particular?

I honestly agree with Disney that they should prioritise touring in parts of the world that they never have done before. They are the world'd biggest global brand and do have a responsibility for helping to grow interest in the global game. Playing a test against each of Georgia, Romania, Russia and Spain for example (ranked 17th to 20th in the world respectively) would mean the world to these countries. Time to give back.

They last played Tonga in 2011 (before that, it was 2003), Samoa in 2008 (before that, 2001) and Fiji in 2011 (before that, 2005). Not particularly impressive close to home, either.

Don't get me wrong, I know that everyone wants a piece of them, but the schedulers need to take the blinkers off a little.

George, South Auckland is the greatest nursery of rugby talent on the planet. Players from there may move away to make thier names, but that's the nursery. If League/football etc keep increasing their "take" of the talent (and Aussie league scouts regularly visit) that'll hurt NZ (and Australian and PI) rugby union down the track.

I love to learn.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:16 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Taylor - why are they so worried about Auckland in particular?

I honestly agree with Disney that they should prioritise touring in parts of the world that they never have done before. They are the world'd biggest global brand and do have a responsibility for helping to grow interest in the global game. Playing a test against each of Georgia, Romania, Russia and Spain for example (ranked 17th to 20th in the world respectively) would mean the world to these countries. Time to give back.

They last played Tonga in 2011 (before that, it was 2003), Samoa in 2008 (before that, 2001) and Fiji in 2011 (before that, 2005). Not particularly impressive close to home, either.

Don't get me wrong, I know that everyone wants a piece of them, but the schedulers need to take the blinkers off a little.

George, South Auckland is the greatest nursery of rugby talent on the planet. Players from there may move away to make thier names, but that's the nursery. If League/football etc keep increasing their "take" of the talent (and Aussie league scouts regularly visit) that'll hurt NZ (and Australian and PI) rugby union down the track.

I love to learn.

South Auckland has nearly 500,000 people, it's an industrial area so relatively low income, and a very high concentration of Polynesians. Sport becomes the easiest route to a good living as a result.

by Morgannwg Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:37 am

Would have thought it was the choice for teen-agers when looking at the registered teen players on the IRB. Are guys from Fiji, Samoa, etc that are on scholarships registered as NZRU players? I guess that would bump up the figures, until they sail back home.

by SecretFly Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:30 am

Taylorman wrote:

1 Back to back World Cup wins
2 2 gold medals in Rio for the 7's
3 Rugby in NZ is financially healthy
4 Rugby is the sport of choice in wider Auckland
5 Rugby brings communities together and is the sport of choice for teenagers

Wow! High ideals! Anyone would think New Zealand were the All Blacks the way they say all that with such a straight face. Wink

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:31 am

I'd like to see us play fewer tests in November and see us stop over in other parts of the world. Or if not feasible due to agreements take a b team with a few senior players and play in some places like us and Japan or Russia. Get some tv deals and promote the game there.

Gold for 2016 for the men's sevens should be feasible but women's is a leap of faith. 2015 as all the world cups should be the aim but far from easy.

Good to see us post a profit. Tight reins should be kept on clubs and opportunities should be pursued in emerging markets. The aim should be to reduce tests for abs especially at end of year.

by Taylorman Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:32 am

George Carlin wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Taylor - why are they so worried about Auckland in particular?

I honestly agree with Disney that they should prioritise touring in parts of the world that they never have done before. They are the world'd biggest global brand and do have a responsibility for helping to grow interest in the global game. Playing a test against each of Georgia, Romania, Russia and Spain for example (ranked 17th to 20th in the world respectively) would mean the world to these countries. Time to give back.

They last played Tonga in 2011 (before that, it was 2003), Samoa in 2008 (before that, 2001) and Fiji in 2011 (before that, 2005). Not particularly impressive close to home, either.

Don't get me wrong, I know that everyone wants a piece of them, but the schedulers need to take the blinkers off a little.

George, South Auckland is the greatest nursery of rugby talent on the planet. Players from there may move away to make thier names, but that's the nursery. If League/football etc keep increasing their "take" of the talent (and Aussie league scouts regularly visit) that'll hurt NZ (and Australian and PI) rugby union down the track.
I love to learn.

Yeah the 80's and 90's Auckland dominated the game like no other in NZ, even more so than the Crusaders in the 00's. Talent like JK, Lomu, Fitzy, the Brookes, Whettons, Foxy, M Jones, Buck, and many more provided a constant feeder to the AB's. All that dried up once professionalism kicked in in 96 and the Warriors joined the NRL and after winning the first 2 sxv's the Blues have only one it once- 10 years ago.

Players with proud rugby history are being snapped up by the growing under 20 League sides- The Holden cup is the NRL U20 equivalent and the Warriors version has featured strongly every year in that.

Plus the overflow is going to other unions home and overseas in droves. The Auckland schools are producing top players like never before but are disappearing well before they get near the Auckland jersey.Henry said one of his primary concerns when going to Auckland was to stem the tide and get Auckland back to being the first choice for youth. That will mean taking on the league under 20 contracts directly somehow to be at all effective. hence being listed as a key strategy.

by disneychilly Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:06 am

Need to play in the islands too. They deserve it. The NZRU and a host of other unions need their backsides kicked for not having gone.

by Taylorman Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:06 am

SecretFly wrote:
Taylorman wrote:

1 Back to back World Cup wins
2 2 gold medals in Rio for the 7's
3 Rugby in NZ is financially healthy
4 Rugby is the sport of choice in wider Auckland
5 Rugby brings communities together and is the sport of choice for teenagers

Wow! High ideals! Anyone would think New Zealand were the All Blacks the way they say all that with such a straight face.

High? As goals? Why is that?
What would you suggest for NZ rugby as a vision...Last 4 world cup and 1 Bronze medal perhaps?..now that would need a straight face...

Kia thats a good point. It is fairly inward looking and the first step we should be taking is within our own back yard- building the Island sides up on a more direct basis rather than one offs in the way Lomu and co get around the Islands. Fiji in particular have never won an Olympic gold medal and are wanting to ramp up their chances. They probably have the best local comp in the world as far as pure talent goes. Not the crowds, the money but certainly the talent. Samoa and Fiji will be up amongst the faves in '16 and its a game any of the top sides can win.

For the AB's to play unfortunately its all about money which is why there will never be a full test in Fiji, Samoa or Tonga, which is a shame.

So perhaps its now about looking after no.1, getting our own ship on course before trying to preach to others. Without a strong domestic scene the AB's are nothing hence the focus on Auckland, its our biggest area of improvement.

by Taylorman Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:07 am

Welll...after the Higlanders... Shocked

...

by dallym Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:52 am

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I'd like to see us play fewer tests in November and see us stop over in other parts of the world. Or if not feasible due to agreements take a b team with a few senior players and play in some places like us and Japan or Russia. Get some tv deals and promote the game there.

Gold for 2016 for the men's sevens should be feasible but women's is a leap of faith. 2015 as all the world cups should be the aim but far from easy.

Good to see us post a profit. Tight reins should be kept on clubs and opportunities should be pursued in emerging markets. The aim should be to reduce tests for abs especially at end of year.

this could be explored further. Have mostly fringe all blacks and throw in one or two big names. It'd benefit us too as the fringe players are getting experience.

by Taylorman Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:23 pm

Yes even experience in travelling as a team overseas, handling the turps as a team seems a big thing these days. Marshall and Randall were hard case on Reunion obviously holding back on their 'experiences'. The bit about being under control for much of the time then letting them out for a night 'where they all go crazy' was hard case.

by dallym Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:20 pm

though reading Ted's bio it transpires that Marshall was one of the ringleaders of the court sessions which terrified Ted.

Another thought. If they didn't want to take to many youngsters on the minor tours, could they pick some overseas FABs? If they were doing a tour of Japan and Russia they could pick players like Kaino, Thomson and Toeava to ensure there is adequete experience without drawing too much from the talent from the major tour.

by **rodders** Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:04 pm

Taylorman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Taylorman wrote:

1 Back to back World Cup wins
2 2 gold medals in Rio for the 7's
3 Rugby in NZ is financially healthy
4 Rugby is the sport of choice in wider Auckland
5 Rugby brings communities together and is the sport of choice for teenagers

Wow! High ideals! Anyone would think New Zealand were the All Blacks the way they say all that with such a straight face.

High? As goals? Why is that?
What would you suggest for NZ rugby as a vision...Last 4 world cup and 1 Bronze medal perhaps?..now that would need a straight face...

We're Irish, we don't do goals...just give the ball to Brian and hope for the best......... whats that you say?... he's retiring??!....NOOOOOOOOO!!!

by GunsGerms Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:19 pm

New Zealand's alternative goals:

-Invade Tonga and Samoa. Set up cloning facilities and high performance camps.

-Find some Kiwi refs with Irish names O'Brien, Walsh etc. Get them to infiltrate the IRB or behave badly and get ressigned new nationalities for the greater good of New Zealand.

-Ask Graham Henry to whinge incessently about changes to the rules of rugby for the benefit of AB rugby. ALVs!!!

-brainwash Wayne Barnes

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:24 pm

GunsGerms wrote:New Zealand's alternative goals:

-Invade Tonga and Samoa. Set up cloning facilities and high performance camps.

-Find some Kiwi refs with Irish names O'Brien, Walsh etc. Get them to infiltrate the IRB or behave badly and get ressigned new nationalities for the greater good of New Zealand.

-Ask Graham Henry to whinge incessently about changes to the rules of rugby for the benefit of AB rugby. ALVs!!!

-brainwash Wayne Barnes

They're not goals for the future GG, they're in the "already accomlished" box Wink

. Hence the new goal to preserve rugby in our ~~cloning facility~~ err South Auckland* for instance

*Around 40% of all Samoans live in New Zealand. Who needs to invade Wink

by GunsGerms Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:30 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:New Zealand's alternative goals:

-Invade Tonga and Samoa. Set up cloning facilities and high performance camps.

-Find some Kiwi refs with Irish names O'Brien, Walsh etc. Get them to infiltrate the IRB or behave badly and get ressigned new nationalities for the greater good of New Zealand.

-Ask Graham Henry to whinge incessently about changes to the rules of rugby for the benefit of AB rugby. ALVs!!!

-brainwash Wayne Barnes

They're not goals for the future GG, they're in the "already accomlished" box . Hence the new goal to preserve rugby in our ~~cloning facility~~ err South Auckland* for instance

*Around 40% of all Samoans live in New Zealand. Who needs to invade

Oh yeah sorry.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:04 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:New Zealand's alternative goals:

-Invade Tonga and Samoa. Set up cloning facilities and high performance camps.

-Find some Kiwi refs with Irish names O'Brien, Walsh etc. Get them to infiltrate the IRB or behave badly and get ressigned new nationalities for the greater good of New Zealand.

-Ask Graham Henry to whinge incessently about changes to the rules of rugby for the benefit of AB rugby. ALVs!!!

-brainwash Wayne Barnes

They're not goals for the future GG, they're in the "already accomlished" box . Hence the new goal to preserve rugby in our ~~cloning facility~~ err South Auckland* for instance

*Around 40% of all Samoans live in New Zealand. Who needs to invade

Oh yeah sorry.

by Taylorman Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:15 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:New Zealand's alternative goals:

-Invade Tonga and Samoa. Set up cloning facilities and high performance camps.

-Find some Kiwi refs with Irish names O'Brien, Walsh etc. Get them to infiltrate the IRB or behave badly and get ressigned new nationalities for the greater good of New Zealand.

-Ask Graham Henry to whinge incessently about changes to the rules of rugby for the benefit of AB rugby. ALVs!!!

-brainwash Wayne Barnes

They're not goals for the future GG, they're in the "already accomlished" box . Hence the new goal to preserve rugby in our ~~cloning facility~~ err South Auckland* for instance

*Around 40% of all Samoans live in New Zealand. Who needs to invade

Oh yeah sorry.

Well we had to put the sweat factory somewhere Pete...and who leaked the cloning division? ( first prototype should be out later this year anyway) thumbsup

by blackcanelion Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:22 pm

I think the point about Auckland is just a recognition that union has to lift it's game here. It's now the second sport behind league in the city and is facing increasing pressure from football and this year AFL (a big push this year, my eldest has just signed up for kiwi kick).

It's partly about keeping the talent there. There is a very large pacific island community in the city. Most now go to league. Auckland dominates the junior game. there's a real challenge to keep the cream in rugby and in NZ.

The second side of it is keeping the sport popular so that the revenue stream keeps coming in. This means moving into the the increasingly significant Asian community. This means modifying the competitions. Just as European and Maori kids struggle with giant islanders (One of my boys is very big the other is normal and we play social rugby with Samoan families, so I see it), many Asian kids have the opposite issue. So I suspect that there will be attempt to draw in all sizes. maybe tag rugby to an older age (as they are trialling with girls rugby in Wellington this year.

by dallym Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:32 pm

there was an article about a 71kg ten year old in tears because he was told that he was too heavy to play with his mates and has to play u13s instead. Apparently he's looking into league instead.

Don't know about junior rugby, but growing up with league we had restricted and open at each age level to cater for the different weights (the skinny kids would play in the restricted comp and the heavier kids played in the open competition)

by blackcanelion Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:35 pm

My cousins boy is part samoan and gave up rugby at a similar age because he couldn't play with his friends, the game was to hard etc. My boy has similar issues. he doesn't have quite in that he knows the kids he's playing with and there is the occasional kid his year, but it's pretty hard. he'd rather play with kids his own year that he knows.

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