Zebre vs Edinburgh Match Thread: KO 18:00, BBC Alba

[bsando]

First topic message reminder :

Zebre: 15 Paolo Buso, 14 Leonardo Sarto, 13 Giovanbattista Venditti, 12 Gonzalo Garcia, 11 Sinoti Sinoti, 10 Luciano Orquera, 9 Tito Tebaldi, 8 Andries van Schalkwyk, 7 Filippo Ferrarini, 6 Josh Sole, 5 Marco Bortolami, 4 Quintin Geldenhuys, 3 David Ryan, 2 Davide Giazzon, 1 Matias Aguero.

Replacements: 16 Andrea Manici, 17 Salvatore Perugini, 18 Luciano Leibson, 19 Michael van Vuren, 20 Emiliano Caffini, 21 Alberto Chillon, 22 Samuele Pace, 23 Ruggero Trevisan.

Edinburgh: Greig Tonks, Lee Jones, Matt Scott, Ben Atiga, Tim Visser, Piers Francis, Greig Laidlaw (capt), Allan Jacobsen, Ross Ford, Willem Nel, Perry Parker, Sean Cox, Stuart McInally, Ross Rennie, Netani Talei

Replacements: Steven Lawrie, John Yapp, Geoff Cross, Robert McAlpine, Hamish Watson, Sean Kennedy, Harry Leonard, Tom Brown.

[TJ1]

Janecory - he made two breaks - one of which he would have scored from if he had not slipped in a huge muddy mess of a pitch. He hardly kicked at all all game - sorry - in your desire to slag him off you have lost any objectivity. I watched the game because of the criticism of him and was looking for him to play badly - but he didn't. He provided good quick clean ball all game He kicked 8 times. passed 67 times and ran 7 times according to the stats on scrum.com

He showed great leadership marshalling the team in defence as well as attack. I thought one of the best displays I have seen from him. I suggest you watch the game again with a little objectivity

I am a Laidlaw fan but am objective enough to say, as I have several times, that he did not do enough or show his class well enough in the 6N to get a lions place. However the poor play in this match simply was no t his fault - he providedd the backs with plenty of good quick ball

[Janecory]

Janecory - he made two breaks - one of which he would have scored from if he had not slipped in a huge muddy mess of a pitch. He hardly kicked at all all game - sorry - in your desire to slag him off you have lost any objectivity. I watched the game because of the criticism of him and was looking for him to play badly - but he didn't. He provided good quick clean ball all game He kicked 8 times. passed 67 times and ran 7 times according to the stats on scrum.com

He showed great leadership marshalling the team in defence as well as attack. I thought one of the best displays I have seen from him. I suggest you watch the game again with a little objectivity

I am a Laidlaw fan but am objective enough to say, as I have several times, that he did not do enough or show his class well enough in the 6N to get a lions place. However the poor play in this match simply was no t his fault - he providedd the backs with plenty of good quick ball

Well I suppose each to their own opinion !

[TJ1]

Its not an opinion - you claim

Laidlaw had so much possession, he did not know what to do with it, he either kicked the ball away needlessly and aimlessly.............

He kicked the ball 8 times - thats a fact. so he did not do as you said.

[Janecory]

Its not an opinion - you claim

Laidlaw had so much possession, he did not know what to do with it, he either kicked the ball away needlessly and aimlessly.............

He kicked the ball 8 times, CONSTANTLY KICKING DECENT POSSESION AWAY, AND KICKING POORLY - thats a fact.

Fixed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TJ1]

Kicking less than 10% of the possession he had..............................

When in a hole stop digging. :-)

[Janecory]

Kicking less than 10% of the possession he had, DID NOTHING ELSE WITH THE OTHER 90% HE HAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP WRIGGLING TJ. :-)

FIXED AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Janecory]

How awful are Edinburgh? Laidlaw had a stinker tonight, I'll forgive him that as he's not usually that poor .

Some on this Forum thought he was outstanding and had a real good game !
Funny that !

[TJ1]

I ain't wriggling - merely proving you are talking utter rubbish. The facts speak for themselves and show the nonsense you are talking.

[IanBru]

Has anyone ever looked back at Ms Cory's posting history? It's a little bit worrying how often Laidlaw's name crops up.

Jane, have you been taking lessons from John Hinckley?

TJ, mate, my advice is to not make any sudden movements.

[Imperialbigdave]

Has anyone ever looked back at Ms Cory's posting history? It's a little bit worrying how often Laidlaw's name crops up.

Jane, have you been taking lessons from John Hinckley?

TJ, mate, my advice is to not make any sudden movements.

I thought that on friday night when he started his rant about Laidlaw, I dont recall seeing him making many posts about anything else.

If he is who I think he is, he was banned from the embra forum the other day for wumming

[funnyExiledScot]

To be fair to Ms Cory, there is some truth in what's being said, and we saw it for Scotland as well.

Laidlaw does shoulder responsibility and has leadership qualities, which can be both a weakness and a strength. The reason fly halves are usually the key decision makers is that from where they stand, they can see the panorama of the pitch and the opposition positioning - harder for a scrum half. To maximise the stand-offs chances of making good decisions, he wants good quick service. However, for a scrum half to be able to manage the game, he needs to be looking around from the base of the scrum, thus preventing quick service to the fly half.

I made the comment during the 6 Nations that I didn't think Laidlaw trusted Jackson at 10 to manage the game, and accordingly he took on nearly all the tactical kicking duties himself. From the base of the scrum the options are pretty limited. I get the same feeling with Francis at 10, that Laidlaw has yet to trust him under pressure to execute game management, and so similarly Laidlaw prefers to run things himself.

Having seen Kennedy against Ulster, there's no question he's quicker than Laidlaw and his service is slicker as well. However when he did box kick, the ball went out on the full twice, and he made a dreadful decision to go himself at one point, got isolated and held up. Not surprising. He's a raw talent still learning his trade at Rabo level, but he's an extremely promising talent and brings good tempo and pace to proceedings.

I don't however think that Friday was the right environment for Kennedy to come on. The conditions were awful and we needed our best goal kicker on the field, as we know that Francis is not reliable (although if Laidlaw deserves criticism for anything, it's missing that relatively straightforward kick). I'd say Laidlaw had a mixed game on Friday, but sought to play the conditions which was the correct approach, and took pressure off Francis at key times. I don't think Kennedy would have thanked Hodge and Scott for bringing him on with 10 minutes to go.

The biggest culprits in Edinburgh jersey's in my view were McInally and Visser - both had poor games. Visser's dreadful sideways run and hopeless pass are what caused Zebre to get back in the game and have the drop goal opportunity, until that point Laidlaw and Francis had done a decent job in pegging them back. McInally's handling skills let him down, and he make several high profile errors undoing his good work from the week prior.

I therefore think the focus on Laidlaw is slightly unfair. Others were poorer in the circumstances and although his execution wasn't brilliant at times, he had the right tactics for the conditions and didn't shirk responsibility. It would have been easier to ship the ball to Francis on every occassion, but at times that could have caused us far greater problems. Territory was the name of the game on Friday.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Bravo Edinburgh A win is a win is a win

[funnyExiledScot]

Also worth pointing out that Zebre have a fair few losing bonus points this season, and better teams than us have failed to put them away.

In those conditions, flowing fast paced rugby was never an option.

[RDW]

The only thing I am taking from that is the win. Although it was promising that we generally had them in the forwards (dodging scrum reffing aside), which has been a major downfall for us this season.

[funnyExiledScot]

I think our scrum has generally gone well in the second half of the season, it's our lineout that's still a bit of a mess.

I've given up on the referees in the Rabo. I've wondered several times this season about becoming a referee, I think I could do a better job blindfolded!

[RDW]

I've given up on the referees in the Rabo. I've wondered several times this season about becoming a referee

You're too old FES - judging by the guy on Friday night they are only employing 15 year olds these days!

[funnyExiledScot]

I've given up on the referees in the Rabo. I've wondered several times this season about becoming a referee

You're too old FES - judging by the guy on Friday night they are only employing 15 year olds these days!

He did look like a child out there. I thought for a second Mark Bennett had a part time job as a ref (would explain what he's been doing all these years)!!

[RDW]

Joking aside I played in a game last year where the ref was 17, going on 12. He had absolutely no clue and the game completely fell out of his control and descended into farce at the end having penalised the crap out of us all game and sent two players off even though we only had 14 to start with – even the opposition were talking to us throughout the game saying they felt sorry for us and had no idea what he was doing!

One of our guys telling him he was a useless c-bomb might not have helped things like…

[funnyExiledScot]

I remember playing an away school rugby match against Edinburgh Academy and the referee was their headmaster!

You can imagine the sort of unbiased decisions we were subjected to. I played second row and we were penalised once for (I quote) "illegal pushing at the scrum" (note it was not an early shove). Upon questionning the ref as to what "illegal pushing" might mean, we were marched back 10 metres and told that he did not have to explain himself.

We still won comfortably.....

[RDW]

To be fair I did feel sorry for the guy – he shouldn’t have been put in a position where he was reffing players who had been playing rugby longer than he had been alive! Plus he had obviously borrowed his dad’s suit to arrive in before the game looking all smart – was about 2 sizes to big for him!

The main problem of playing in a regional east one league 2’s team is that you obviously get some pretty poor refs – I dread to think what the refs are like in the leagues even further below us!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Bravo Edinburgh A win is a win is a win

ASBO mate, the sarcasm is just ripping oot ye

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

No, honestly, for once that was heart-felt and genuine - would rather see them climbing the table, else it's embarrassing for Scottish rugby

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

[funnyExiledScot]

Edinburgh could actually reach 7th come the end of the season, which would be a very decent outcome given the shambles Bradley presided over in the 1st half of the season.

We need to win the last three games, and make sure we schedule a proper pre-season this time round, so that we hit the ground running. If players are not fully fit and firing for the first game (see Atiga at the start of this season), then they should not play.

[RDW]

All Edinburgh fans are in agreement with you there FES – the main reasons for our terrible season are a very poor pre-season and the mass rotation policy at the beginning.

Get the players fit for the first game and stick with that team for a good few weeks. I know the Scotland players will need to be phased in later on but do that gradually.

[funnyExiledScot]

The good news is that the following will unlikely feature in any form of summer rugby by my reckoning, so should be fully fit for game one, after a proper pre-season schedule:

1.Yapp 2.Lawrie 3.Nel 4.VDW 5.Cox 6.McInally 7.Grant 8.Talei 9.Kennedy 10.Francis 11.Fife 12.Atiga 13.Cairns 14.Walker 15.Brown

Add also Chunk, Walker (hooker), Hislop, McAlpine, Parker, Basilia, Watson, Leonard, King, Houston and Jones.

There should be a pretty decent XV out there ready and firing to start the first 3-4 games of the season. Any Lions/summer tourists needing rest should be properly rested, and only brought back in once fully fit and ready, with the aim being the first round of games in the HC.

[SGD prop]

Is chunk not retiring and Talei not moving on at the end of the season ??

[RDW]

No official news on either really. Chunk has said he’s keen to play on but this season might have dampened his enthusiasm. Talei’s contract is up but I hope we can keep him – we need competition in the backrow and he will be hard to replace.

[funnyExiledScot]

I thought Chunk was going to play another season (going well at the moment), and Talei's performances in the last couple of game have been a reminder of his talent.

No coincidence for me that his return to form has come since Rennie's return. They play off eachother so well with the offloads and carries.

Talei should stay, and McInally should focus on being a 6.

In terms of new signings, we've already brought in Walker. I personally think we need a new loosehead, with Greg Shiells and Ali Dickinson high on my list.

We also need to use Basilia more at 6 assuming he's staying. I cannot fathom why he isn't being used more.

[RDW]

If Chunk goes I think Dickinson would be a good shout. He’s perfect for Edinburgh – can’t scrummage and has a perhaps unjustified reputation of being good in the loose!

Joking aside he would be a good signing. Can’t see Sheills leaving Newcastle since they are very likely to get promoted. I’d probably rather he has at least a season in the AP as well, playing regular rugby.

[funnyExiledScot]

I watched the Sale vs Irish game on Sunday - Dickinson is very good in the loose, no question about that. Huge workrate, and hopefully next season Edinburgh can resume that fast paced offloading game that serves us so well when we bother to turn up. He's also unlikely to replace Grant, Low and /or Welsh in the Scotland set-up, so we ought to have him all year round. Makes good sense in my view, and he knows the set-up well, so hopefully would be able to hit the ground running.

Agree that if Shiells has the opportunity to play regular rugby in the Aviva next year under Dean Richards, then he should stick with that. Let him learn his trade in the Aviva so he's ready to make the step up to Rabo12 and Edinburgh when he gets to his prime.....

[RDW]

Not that I think it will happen, but if Sale were to end up relegated it might persuade Dickinson and a certain Fraser McKenzie to come home…

[funnyExiledScot]

They won't get relegated, and in any event, I'm not sure McKenzie really adds anything to our existing options at lock.

Parker seems pretty decent (in the limited chances he's had), and we haven't really seem yet what VDW has to offer. Still, McKenzie did finish playing pretty strongly for Edinburgh before his move and I'm all for local lads in the squad (at least I think he's a local lad).

Dickinson I'd take in a flash though, principally because Chunk is on the wane, Yapp is no more than average and Hislop is too green.

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