Heels and Faces in modern day wrestling

Reading on allot of threads about last nights raw, which I was so happy I stayed up for, regarding the reactions of fans towards heels and faces. Traditionally, the heel is the one who is supposed to be booed while he is overcome by the crowd favorite the face. However, as we saw last night, heels these days often get a better reaction at the big events than the faces.

I think its quite obvious why that is, and for me, its because faces these days aren't 'cool'. Punk for me, is one of the few faces in recent years to be a real good face, because he was cool. He didn't pander to the crowd with really unfunny insults like we see from Cena, or desperately try to be funny (like Cena). Basically for me, everything Cena does as a face should never be copied because its embarrassing and just will not get you over.

For me, Ziggler could be the man to be the next big face because he is a 'cool' wrestler. He's exiting in the ring, has a great look and i think could be the next HBK in my books. I just think faces in modern day wwe are just cringeworthy, such as Sheamus and Cena whereas the heels get cheered because they don't try and be cheesy to put in plainly.

I don't think i've explained myself very well here but my main point is, faces these days have got it all wrong in trying to get over with crowds whereas heels are getting cheered more mainly because the faces they're up against are just annoying and don't give you anything to cheer.

We're at a time that's similar to the pre-NWO years. The superman face characters worked for a bit, but now they're getting stale. Same happened with Hogan in WCW and Bret Hart in WWF.

WWE need another Austin, in that Austin was cheered but didn't do anything that you'd typically associate with a babyface. Punk, like you mentioned, is probably as close as the WWE have got in the last few years. The last time before that I can remember is when Eddie was doing his lie/cheat/steal gimmick and Cena had the rapper gimmick. Everything about them suggested they were heels, yet they got the biggest pops of the night.

The problem is the peri-mania crowds cheer the heels when the women and children cheer the faces for 90% of the year.

It helps no one and screws up storylines, you won't find another entertainment media where people root for the bad guy as much - rightly or wrongly.

John Cena is the bad guy though. If the wwe follow protocol he should be turned heel. Like if they continual booed a face Sheamus he wouldn't last long and he'll be turned.

Cena will be the only top guy if though he's get booed to hell that won't be turned.

WWE present him as a good guy continually though.

He smiles at the boos and keeps trying. If he turned he would instantly get huge cheers - wwe are damned if they do and damned if they don't with cena and he is more likely to be phased out in a few years than turned heel.

Maybe they don't see him as a babyface and keep pushing his gimmick because they know it will get nuclear heat? I've never really thought about it like that before but it makes sense in my head...I doubt it does to anyone else I'm just thinking of Owen Hart's Blue Blazer gimmick. Squeaky clean supposed good guy, who's a heel for exactly that reason.

Yeah but Y2J was a deluded heel, Cena keeps beating the heels against all odds cleanly and most recently one of the all time greats clean in a redemption storyline.

Face, face, face, super man face.

In my opinion Cena has gotten old very quickly and the WWE no longer has the buffer that was WCW. If you look post Hogan WWF you had Hart and Michaels who carried the torch. Top of the pyramid for say what 5 years? Waiting in the wings was Austin, Rock and HHH. Now again Vince was fortunate because Austin's injuries seriously limited his career and Rock was a film star in the making. Like Hart and HBK before them they both left the top of the business at the same time. Lesnar had the ball and traded it in for a different career. Cena came along at the same time as Batista and again Batista about 5 years at the top. You had JBL, Jericho and Angle who all finished in the WWE within 18 months of Cena's first title win. You had Edge and Orton who came in behind Cena. Edge had a decent run from 2006 and he was done by 2011.

Now if we look at HHH and the Undertaker as examples. Both have had long runs as heel and face. Both were over. HHH and Undertaker no longer have lots of TV time.

Cena has been a constant at the top for nearly 10 years now. Simply the WWE are stuck with him, the buffer that was WCW is no longer there to take on top talent that has run it's course. Now the WWE push mid card talent to the top and then they get demoted. Look at Miz, Sheamus, Orton for example all past WWE champions that feuded with Cena and afterwards found themselves down the pecking order. WWE can't keep doing that with the talent and kill their momentum. With Cena now something creative has to happen to freshen him up. Look at Hogan. Turning him heel was a true stroke of genius. The WWE need to do something with him. I know there has been plenty of shouts to turn him heel, but if the WWE are to pursue that path it needs to be monumental. Like Hogan's. You can't have a half arsed attempt like Austin v Rock WM17. At the moment the only real pay off I could see would maybe be him allign himself with The Shield.

I do agree with the OP that I see a bit of HBK in Ziggler. He has AJ and Big E and for me so similar to the HBK in the beginning. I like how the WWE have handled him in teasing the big push. Just hope he gets a decent run with the strap.

Liam wrote:Reading on allot of threads about last nights raw, which I was so happy I stayed up for, regarding the reactions of fans towards heels and faces. Traditionally, the heel is the one who is supposed to be booed while he is overcome by the crowd favorite the face. However, as we saw last night, heels these days often get a better reaction at the big events than the faces.

I think its quite obvious why that is, and for me, its because faces these days aren't 'cool'. Punk for me, is one of the few faces in recent years to be a real good face, because he was cool. He didn't pander to the crowd with really unfunny insults like we see from Cena, or desperately try to be funny (like Cena). Basically for me, everything Cena does as a face should never be copied because its embarrassing and just will not get you over.

For me, Ziggler could be the man to be the next big face because he is a 'cool' wrestler. He's exiting in the ring, has a great look and i think could be the next HBK in my books. I just think faces in modern day wwe are just cringeworthy, such as Sheamus and Cena whereas the heels get cheered because they don't try and be cheesy to put in plainly.

I don't think i've explained myself very well here but my main point is, faces these days have got it all wrong in trying to get over with crowds whereas heels are getting cheered more mainly because the faces they're up against are just annoying and don't give you anything to cheer.

I agree with everything you've said. Bearing that in mind, I find the clamour for Orton to turn heel ironic as he's never pandered to the fans, and seems to be the archtypal face the older crowd wants.

I remember writing an article about 4 and a half years ago when Chris Jericho was at the height of his heeldom with his honest man gimmick, he was ontop of his game, just had a run as the top man with two WHC Titles after the heel turn program with Shawn Michaels, John Cena came back and subsequently squashed him but there was talk of him winning the 2009 Royal Rumble, he came to the UK with the WWE in November and the crowd went mental for him, he had matches with Cena and all we heard was Y2J Y2J Y2J.

I remember asking as fans, if we liked a guy so much would it not be more respectful to give the guy the ovation his work deserves which in this case should have been boos and an extremely hostile enviroment but instead we gave him cheers which where so loud that fans across the water began copying that, so his great heel turn in May/June which could have got a WrestleMania 25 Main Event spot got halted in its tracks big style, so much so he ended up getting saddled with a legends feud to try and build his heat back up again

I say if you like a guys work so much then why potentially derail him by undermining his character, if he wants booed and is working hard to generate that and is entertaining you then boo the guy and keep him and his character over

So, if Cena's next few feuds are against faces, and he gets booed throughout, does that make him a heel?

Kay Fabe wrote:I say if you like a guys work so much then why potentially derail him by undermining his character, if he wants booed and is working hard to generate that and is entertaining you then boo the guy and keep him and his character over

Excellent point.

How would you feel if you went and watched a movie and people were cheering for the villain throughout the movie (for example booing Buzz lightyear) - the enjoyment would be taken out of it for the audience who want to buy into it and also the filmakers.

You dont have to like the direction of a character but when Cena is trying so hard to play the hand dealt to him, he surely deserves a little respect?

Kay Fabe wrote:I remember asking as fans, if we liked a guy so much would it not be more respectful to give the guy the ovation his work deserves which in this case should have been boos and an extremely hostile enviroment but instead we gave him cheers which where so loud that fans across the water began copying that, so his great heel turn in May/June which could have got a WrestleMania 25 Main Event spot got halted in its tracks big style, so much so he ended up getting saddled with a legends feud to try and build his heat back up again

I say if you like a guys work so much then why potentially derail him by undermining his character, if he wants booed and is working hard to generate that and is entertaining you then boo the guy and keep him and his character over

Damn it, I wrote this on a different thread before reading this comment.

Adam D wrote:

Kay Fabe wrote:I say if you like a guys work so much then why potentially derail him by undermining his character, if he wants booed and is working hard to generate that and is entertaining you then boo the guy and keep him and his character over

Excellent point.

How would you feel if you went and watched a movie and people were cheering for the villain throughout the movie (for example booing Buzz lightyear) - the enjoyment would be taken out of it for the audience who want to buy into it and also the filmakers.

You dont have to like the direction of a character but when Cena is trying so hard to play the hand dealt to him, he surely deserves a little respect?

I think a better example would be a pantomime, which it could be argued is the media that wrestling bears the most similarities to. Imagine taking your children to the panto and the villain was being played by a popular celebrity and all of the adults cheered whatever they did. It would spoil the show for everyone, not just the children.

I naturally cheer the stuff I like. Complain about smark fans but they were reacting organically at things like Zigglers cash in. Booing a heel in appreciation is almost smarkception.

I think the WWE know fully well how their heels are over with older fans. It's the perfect way to balance their audience appeal. The kids still like the goodies but the older audience can make them their heels. It causes a buzz. Like Punk v Cena at mitb a couple years ago, the crowd go where they want organically with the product. That match benefitted from the atmosphere, should Punk really have been booed in appreciation?

I do get the point, but I think the era is slightly different to times where you booed the heels. The problem is a lack of consistent character in heel/face turns and no convincing tweeners. Ryback could be given a real shot now as the tweener who just fights who he wants, mainly as a face but he doesn't always care. It's what Orton is meant to be, but they have watered him down too much.

I don't know the situation in WWE but certainly, as far as TNA is concerned I think at least part of the problem is that very few of the roster are given really good stories or feuds to work with, to build/develop their characters...which for me plays a big part in whether I root for them or not.

I like my characters to have a reason for being good (or bad)...unless their gimmick is good enough on its own to sell their behaviour (which in most cases I don't think they are).

That said, I hadn't really given much thought to heel characters being put face situations, or vice versa, affecting the reaction they get from audiences...especially if its unintentional.

Just one more thing for creative teams to worry about when booking their talent.

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:I naturally cheer the stuff I like. Complain about smark fans but they were reacting organically at things like Zigglers cash in. Booing a heel in appreciation is almost smarkception.

I think the WWE know fully well how their heels are over with older fans. It's the perfect way to balance their audience appeal. The kids still like the goodies but the older audience can make them their heels. It causes a buzz. Like Punk v Cena at mitb a couple years ago, the crowd go where they want organically with the product. That match benefitted from the atmosphere, should Punk really have been booed in appreciation?

I do get the point, but I think the era is slightly different to times where you booed the heels. The problem is a lack of consistent character in heel/face turns and no convincing tweeners. Ryback could be given a real shot now as the tweener who just fights who he wants, mainly as a face but he doesn't always care. It's what Orton is meant to be, but they have watered him down too much.

CM Punk wasn't playing the heel after the original promo, by the time Money in the Bank had come about he was a fully over face. I don't think that was the intention after the first promo, but it was the result. He was also in his home town where it expected for him to get cheers.

I think if the bad guys aren't booed, and the good guys aren't cheered in most cases, wrestling can't work.