Regional Rugby, NWQs, Development & The Way Forward

First topic message reminder :

Nice to see the DRAGONS continue to supply welsh players of the future,bit of a joke 4 non welsh in one swoop,its time to cut their funding as they do nothing for the welsh cause.

LordDowlais wrote:If you look at my debate history on this thread not once have I insulted anybody without editing it a few hours later.

Fixed that for you.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:If you look at my debate history on this thread not once have I insulted anybody without editing it a few hours later.

Fixed that for you.

Yes but at least I realised I was wrong and changed it.There is only so much a person can take and in the end things can get the better of you. But like I have said I was wrong to type it and I changed it, other insults are still on here to be read

Also, it was not a few hours later, try a few minutes later.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I haven't heard any more about the regions meeting the full board of the WRU. Is it possible that the executive are preventing the meeting going ahead?

No idea.The meeting was scheduled for yesterday wasn't it?
Maybe they're keeping quiet until they have something positive to announce.

I don't know. There was the report on the BBC and then that was it.

Lord D, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I will call BS unashamedly when I see it posted on the subject of the Dragons and rugby in Gwent.

The meeting is tomorrow (Thursday);

Blues chief executive Richard Holland said last night: “We are looking forward to having a dialogue with the full board of the union.

“It’s not an opportunity we have had since I have been involved. Stuart Gallacher (RRW chief executive) used to sit on it, but the regions no longer have a voice around the table, which is questionable in itself.

“Why was Stuart’s place taken away? But let’s start afresh. All we want is an opportunity to explain our side.

“We want the management of the pro game to go through the PRGB, as was agreed. We have come up with ideas and solutions to how we can take things forward.

“Let’s hope some goodwill comes out of it because we should be united for the good of Welsh rugby.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-welsh-regions-set-crunch-2998185

Thanks, Dave. I'm looking forward to hearing what comes out of the meeting.

LordDowlais wrote:What has happened is the Dragons fans on here, Stone Motif in particular, has taken what has been said too personally and a direct attack at the Dragons. Because of this the Dragons are comming under a lot more scrutiny as they would normally, I am pointing my finger at all the regions for singing below par NWQ players, like the Ospreys signing Tibaldi a 32 year old scrum half when half their back line is made up of Welsh scrum halfs, I must be the only person who looks at this and views it as below par players using up the finances of already skint regions. I just think at times that the money could be better spent. I do not need to be told that I am talking tripe, or what I know about rugby can be written on the back of a postage stemp ect. If you look at my debate history on this thread not once have I insulted anybody, yet others on here are quick to rubbish anything I say, and call me clueless or words to that affect, it is uncalled for.

25 isn't he?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21558446

Stone Motif wrote:Lord D, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I will call BS unashamedly when I see it posted on the subject of the Dragons and rugby in Gwent.

Stone, I do not hold grudges, also my feelings have not been hurt, I just get wound up when people constantly tell me I am talking rubbish. I am not singling out Gwent rugby, it's just you and Luckless and to an extent Griff all took it as an attack on your region and as a result the Dragons and their signings were dragged into it. Look, even as a die hard Dragons fan, even you should be demanding more, surely. I have read a little about some of your signings and the Argentinian prop has not exactly been pulling up trees. He is fourth choice prop for his country at best and cannot get into a side that is closer to the bottom of the T14 than the top. He has been tried at tighthead for Stad Francias and he did not make the grade, yet you find him good enough for your region ? I am only using him as an example as he is going to your region, I could ask the same of Ospreys bound Tibaldi, or any of the front rowers the Blues have signed.

Dowlais, I'll ask you again to bear in mind a) how much money we have to spend on players, and b) how attractive we are to potential signings. We can't afford the creme de la creme and they probably wouldn't want to come even if we could. That said, I'm fairly confident that the players we're bringing in are better than any local alternatives - mainly because we've tried plenty of local alternatives over the last few seasons and struggled as a result.

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Lord D, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I will call BS unashamedly when I see it posted on the subject of the Dragons and rugby in Gwent.

Stone, I do not hold grudges, also my feelings have not been hurt, I just get wound up when people constantly tell me I am talking rubbish. I am not singling out Gwent rugby, it's just you and Luckless and to an extent Griff all took it as an attack on your region and as a result the Dragons and their signings were dragged into it. Look, even as a die hard Dragons fan, even you should be demanding more, surely. I have read a little about some of your signings and the Argentinian prop has not exactly been pulling up trees. He is fourth choice prop for his country at best and cannot get into a side that is closer to the bottom of the T14 than the top. He has been tried at tighthead for Stad Francias and he did not make the grade, yet you find him good enough for your region ? I am only using him as an example as he is going to your region, I could ask the same of Ospreys bound Tibaldi, or any of the front rowers the Blues have signed.

Melon and Smiler???

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Lord D, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I will call BS unashamedly when I see it posted on the subject of the Dragons and rugby in Gwent.

Stone, I do not hold grudges, also my feelings have not been hurt, I just get wound up when people constantly tell me I am talking rubbish. I am not singling out Gwent rugby, it's just you and Luckless and to an extent Griff all took it as an attack on your region and as a result the Dragons and their signings were dragged into it. Look, even as a die hard Dragons fan, even you should be demanding more, surely. I have read a little about some of your signings and the Argentinian prop has not exactly been pulling up trees. He is fourth choice prop for his country at best and cannot get into a side that is closer to the bottom of the T14 than the top. He has been tried at tighthead for Stad Francias and he did not make the grade, yet you find him good enough for your region ? I am only using him as an example as he is going to your region, I could ask the same of Ospreys bound Tibaldi, or any of the front rowers the Blues have signed.

Melon and Smiler???

Signed, not signing.But I think you secretly knew what I was on about, the front rowers I was suggesting are Ma'Aufu, Borrust and Kyriachou.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Dowlais, I'll ask you again to bear in mind a) how much money we have to spend on players, and b) how attractive we are to potential signings. We can't afford the creme de la creme and they probably wouldn't want to come even if we could. That said, I'm fairly confident that the players we're bringing in are better than any local alternatives - mainly because we've tried plenty of local alternatives over the last few seasons and struggled as a result.

Ok Luckless, I will concede that I will need to reserve my judgement on the Argentinian forward and the South African Lock as I have never seen them play, but come on, are you seriously happy with the Burton signing ? What will he do for you that what you currently have cannot and do a lot better in my opinion ?

Cardiff Dave wrote:The meeting is tomorrow (Thursday);

Blues chief executive Richard Holland said last night: “We are looking forward to having a dialogue with the full board of the union.

“It’s not an opportunity we have had since I have been involved. Stuart Gallacher (RRW chief executive) used to sit on it, but the regions no longer have a voice around the table, which is questionable in itself.

“Why was Stuart’s place taken away? But let’s start afresh. All we want is an opportunity to explain our side.

“We want the management of the pro game to go through the PRGB, as was agreed. We have come up with ideas and solutions to how we can take things forward.

“Let’s hope some goodwill comes out of it because we should be united for the good of Welsh rugby.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-welsh-regions-set-crunch-2998185

I will look forward to this as well, I just think that Stuart Gallacher can be a bit of a trouble maker at times and that he has his own agenda's that he is not telling people about.

LordDowlais wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Lord D, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I will call BS unashamedly when I see it posted on the subject of the Dragons and rugby in Gwent.

Stone, I do not hold grudges, also my feelings have not been hurt, I just get wound up when people constantly tell me I am talking rubbish. I am not singling out Gwent rugby, it's just you and Luckless and to an extent Griff all took it as an attack on your region and as a result the Dragons and their signings were dragged into it. Look, even as a die hard Dragons fan, even you should be demanding more, surely. I have read a little about some of your signings and the Argentinian prop has not exactly been pulling up trees. He is fourth choice prop for his country at best and cannot get into a side that is closer to the bottom of the T14 than the top. He has been tried at tighthead for Stad Francias and he did not make the grade, yet you find him good enough for your region ? I am only using him as an example as he is going to your region, I could ask the same of Ospreys bound Tibaldi, or any of the front rowers the Blues have signed.

Melon and Smiler???

Signed, not signing.But I think you secretly knew what I was on about, the front rowers I was suggesting are Ma'Aufu, Borrust and Kyriachou.

Wouldn't it be fair to suggest however that sometimes players can improve their performance simply by moving to a different club/environment with different coaches etc? Maybe Cardiff Blues thought they could improve them I don't know, but i'm sure they don't have a policy of signing players knowing they are going to be rubbish.

Ok CD, I get what you are saying, but come on, even I knew the Fijian forward was rubbish, if they were signing players with potential then fair enough, but signing players who are crap to start with then hoping he will improve is a bit naive wouldn't you say ?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Dowlais, I'll ask you again to bear in mind a) how much money we have to spend on players, and b) how attractive we are to potential signings. We can't afford the creme de la creme and they probably wouldn't want to come even if we could. That said, I'm fairly confident that the players we're bringing in are better than any local alternatives - mainly because we've tried plenty of local alternatives over the last few seasons and struggled as a result.

Lord Dowlais,

Just to reiterate what Luckless says in this post; if we had the money of Stade Francais, then yes I'd expect us to do better and attract a star prop. As it is we need to make do. The problem is that our current local/academy/squad/junior/call them what you will - props are not tearing up trees either. The likes of Phil Price, Dan Way, Dan Watchhurst, Owen Evans, Aaron Coundley, Nathan Buck, etc. are not doing too good. We've given them the shot, promoted from within, but it's lead to the problems that we have. How many times have you heard people say "the Dragons would do much better with that backline if they had a platform"? I hear it almost weekly on here. Those current local welsh players are that platform, and so outside help needs to come in. Who is there to bring in? Will we be able to entice Adam Jones, Duncan Jones, etc. from the Ospreys? Samson Lee from the Scarlets? Gethin? No, so if we were to get a Welsh prop it would be a 3rd or 4th choice Welsh prop at another region, i.e. no better than we've got. Remember, we got a number of our players from other regions, so this policy of hoovering up the dregs, which some posters think we should be doing more of, has led to a number of our problems in the first place.

So, we need to look outside Wales for our prop options to support and complement those players that we have. We won't be able to afford Hayman or Franks or players of that ilk. Thus, we need to aim a bit lower. An international capped prop, from a country that excels in international props, is not necessarily a bad starting point.

Would not a 3rd - 4th choice prop from the O's be a good call.

Didnt Bath do OK

I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

LordDowlais wrote:I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

Well you can, but other posters won't listen to you.

LordDowlais wrote:Ok CD, I get what you are saying

Good man.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

Well you can, but other posters won't listen to you.

Dont be so sure. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who post on this thread who may. But the rest of us just smile knowingly at the bias from the East

He's having a go at the Chinese now!

Allty wrote:Would not a 3rd - 4th choice prop from the O's be a good call.

Didnt Bath do OK

Well of course they would. You may be suprised to learn that our board are not idiots, and have tabled contracts for the likes of Craig Mitchell in the past. Unfortunately, props command some of the highest wages in the game, and are in a sellers market. Mitchell, for example, could get more money in England so off he went. This is why the ability of the regions to generate more money is so critical, and why I have been so damning of the WRU who are demonstrably holding them back. They are simply not operating on a level playing field as any of their competitors, yet are expected to win the toughest rugby tournament on the planet to be judged successful.

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

Well you can, but other posters won't listen to you.

Dont be so sure. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who post on this thread who may. But the rest of us just smile knowingly at the bias from the East

Pretending 'everyone' agrees with you when you have lost an argument. The last refuge of the keyboard warrior...

Allty wrote:Would not a 3rd - 4th choice prop from the O's be a good call.

Didnt Bath do OK

Bath? Not sure I follow? Unless you mean Paul James? But he was 1st choice LH at Ospreys, not 3rd or 4th. Which 3rd or 4th choice prop did Bath have?

We've got 3rd or 4th choice front rowers from other regions currently (Owen Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Sam Parry, Nathan Williams - all Scarlets actually!) and the proof is in the pudding. They were 3rd or 4th choice, and subsequently surplus to requirements, for a reason. I.e. they're not that good. They're grafters, good honest players. They might do OK in a few years. But as a results business we need to see some results now.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:He's having a go at the Chinese now!

Prawn crackers if you ask me.

Stone Motif wrote:

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

Well you can, but other posters won't listen to you.

Dont be so sure. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who post on this thread who may. But the rest of us just smile knowingly at the bias from the East

Pretending 'everyone' agrees with you when you have lost an argument. The last refuge of the keyboard warrior...

It is concerning that he counts himself and Dowlais as the majority right enough.

Griff wrote:

Allty wrote:Would not a 3rd - 4th choice prop from the O's be a good call.

Didnt Bath do OK

Bath? Not sure I follow? Unless you mean Paul James? But he was 1st choice LH at Ospreys, not 3rd or 4th. Which 3rd or 4th choice prop did Bath have?

We've got 3rd or 4th choice front rowers from other regions currently (Owen Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Sam Parry, Nathan Williams - all Scarlets actually!) and the proof is in the pudding. They were 3rd or 4th choice, and subsequently surplus to requirements, for a reason. I.e. they're not that good. They're grafters, good honest players. They might do OK in a few years. But as a results business we need to see some results now.

Griff Paul James became first choice, because of game time, determination and ability.

Risca Rev wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

Well you can, but other posters won't listen to you.

Dont be so sure. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who post on this thread who may. But the rest of us just smile knowingly at the bias from the East

Pretending 'everyone' agrees with you when you have lost an argument. The last refuge of the keyboard warrior...

It is concerning that he counts himself and Dowlais as the majority right enough.

Not at all there is always silent majority.

The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.

Alty I am not dragons bias, but there is not a need for second teams. The regions have U18s, and U16s sides that compete against each other and three prem sides too. If the regions had A Teams then they players would be the cream of those prem sides, then the prem sides would poach from the championship, and they would pkach from the div 1 sides etc etc, and it will weaken all the leagues bellow the rabo, and also run the risk of killing off struggling village sides.

Here's a thought I have been pondering, and I will probably get told how little I know about rugby et al, but here me out, when the Ospreys first purchased Kahn Fatuali he was not up to much, some might say he was rubbish and a waste of money, but the Ospreys stuck with him over Rhys Webb and surely enough Kahn emerged as quite a decent scrum half, now stick with me on this, if Kahn Fatuali was not at the Ospreys and Rhys Webb was stuck with and given the game time that Kahn Fatuali was given do we think Webb could have blossomed as much as Fatuali has ? I for one would like to think that he could have, given his promise he showed the season before, and glimpses again when given the chance this season, and for me this is the point I am making, next season the Ospreys will have Tibaldi who could well turn out to be decent even though he was about fourth choice at Zebre, but Rhys Webb needs a run of games like Kahn Fatuali had even when he is not playing as well as he showed towards the end of this season, Webb is looking out of sorts, but so was Kahn, the Ospreys gave Kahn Fatuali a run of games but Webb hasn't been given a run. Perhaps if he had the Ospreys and Wales could have had another decent option at nine. It's just a thought, but I know I am going to be told different by people on here.

Lord can not fault your logic, the Ospreys persevered with Biggar this season even though many were calling for his head and for Nipper to start instead. There was even talk of him being allowed to leave for Racing Metro only a few games into the season but now he is a potential lion. Webb is IMO similar to Biggar, he has potential but also seems to have a bit of an attitude problem. Maybe the management there have decided he is too much of a gamble, but personally I think a run of games as first choice would do him good, especially seeing how well he did when Phillips was out of favour prior to leaving.

Allty wrote:The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.

Firstly, I'm not Newport biased, as I'm a Risca boy and support Cross Keys, so I don't know what Newport has to do with it?

Secondly, I passed Sports Science in College, so it's fair to say I do have an understand of physiology of sport, as Anatomy and Physiology was a large component on both years. I don't know what the relevance of coaching is? I'm still a player anyway.

Lastly, Dragons supporters don't just blame Lewis. We have (and I know I can safely talk for the majority of us) always known we need to strengthen in key areas, yet when we finally try to do so, we get criticised by some. Dragons can't do right for doing wrong really. They get criticised for lacking in ambition, but then when they try to form a competitive squad, people still want to have a pop.

Allty wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

Well you can, but other posters won't listen to you.

Dont be so sure. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who post on this thread who may. But the rest of us just smile knowingly at the bias from the East

Pretending 'everyone' agrees with you when you have lost an argument. The last refuge of the keyboard warrior...

It is concerning that he counts himself and Dowlais as the majority right enough.

Not at all there is always silent majority.

The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.

and they say the standard of education has declined these days. Can you even read? Do you know how ridonkulous this post is?

LordDowlais wrote:Here's a thought I have been pondering, and I will probably get told how little I know about rugby et al, but here me out, when the Ospreys first purchased Kahn Fatuali he was not up to much, some might say he was rubbish and a waste of money, but the Ospreys stuck with him over Rhys Webb and surely enough Kahn emerged as quite a decent scrum half, now stick with me on this, if Kahn Fatuali was not at the Ospreys and Rhys Webb was stuck with and given the game time that Kahn Fatuali was given do we think Webb could have blossomed as much as Fatuali has ? I for one would like to think that he could have, given his promise he showed the season before, and glimpses again when given the chance this season, and for me this is the point I am making, next season the Ospreys will have Tibaldi who could well turn out to be decent even though he was about fourth choice at Zebre, but Rhys Webb needs a run of games like Kahn Fatuali had even when he is not playing as well as he showed towards the end of this season, Webb is looking out of sorts, but so was Kahn, the Ospreys gave Kahn Fatuali a run of games but Webb hasn't been given a run. Perhaps if he had the Ospreys and Wales could have had another decent option at nine. It's just a thought, but I know I am going to be told different by people on here.

I think it would be equally fair to say Khan and Webb went head to head for the jersey and the better player won there? Different region different story though, it can hardly be said the Dragons have failed to offer their young players game time this season, or any season really. The issue is retention of experience in the team, not the quality of the younger players. Allty will be along now to tell us how we've consistently failed the youth of Gwent though, without any evidence whatsoever to back that claim up.

I think he was referring to the Newport Gwent Dragons, not Newport city itself. I think.

LordDowlais wrote:I think he was referring to the Newport Gwent Dragons, not Newport city itself. I think.

His geography is at least as good as his physiology, that's for sure.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Here's a thought I have been pondering, and I will probably get told how little I know about rugby et al, but here me out, when the Ospreys first purchased Kahn Fatuali he was not up to much, some might say he was rubbish and a waste of money, but the Ospreys stuck with him over Rhys Webb and surely enough Kahn emerged as quite a decent scrum half, now stick with me on this, if Kahn Fatuali was not at the Ospreys and Rhys Webb was stuck with and given the game time that Kahn Fatuali was given do we think Webb could have blossomed as much as Fatuali has ? I for one would like to think that he could have, given his promise he showed the season before, and glimpses again when given the chance this season, and for me this is the point I am making, next season the Ospreys will have Tibaldi who could well turn out to be decent even though he was about fourth choice at Zebre, but Rhys Webb needs a run of games like Kahn Fatuali had even when he is not playing as well as he showed towards the end of this season, Webb is looking out of sorts, but so was Kahn, the Ospreys gave Kahn Fatuali a run of games but Webb hasn't been given a run. Perhaps if he had the Ospreys and Wales could have had another decent option at nine. It's just a thought, but I know I am going to be told different by people on here.

I think it would be equally fair to say Khan and Webb went head to head for the jersey and the better player won there? Different region different story though, it can hardly be said the Dragons have failed to offer their young players game time this season, or any season really. The issue is retention of experience in the team, not the quality of the younger players. Allty will be along now to tell us how we've consistently failed the youth of Gwent though, without any evidence whatsoever to back that claim up.

Many people on here and at the games were calling for Kahn to be dropped and were going nuts over his lack of idea's when the pack were not at the races. I remember being at the Ospreys V Treviso game in the HC the Ospreys got the bonus point try right at the end, but the crowd were baying for blood with Fatuali'i constantly box kicking long and surrendering possesion, also in his first season there was bloody murder down there when he was not playing well and Webb was kept on the bench, but the Ospreys percivered with Kahn and he blossomed, I just think this could have happened for Webb if they percivered with him instead, I remember Webb putting in a sublime performance out in Thommand Park to beat a full strength Munster and he capped his performance off with a well taken try as well, we will never know now though, and next year they have Tibaldi as well so most probably he wont get the chance next year either, do we all think this is ok, because I do not.

Not a dig at the Dragons, just an example, I remember fans complaining about Haoni McDonald's constant selection being down to the board, I believe, wanting him playing because his wages were higher than other players. I think Tibaldi will be selected for similar reasons. And likewise that is partly why North and Knoyle have gone. Knoyle has played very little the last few seasons, and is far less cost effective than Aled or Gareth Davies, or Rhodri Williams. The regions have to try to tip toe the tight rope with financial failure in one side and poor results the other, however IMO their ballence seems to have improved over the last few seasons and looks like it is getting better still for the coming season.

Why was he sat on the bench though? Why was Khan preferred?

Allty wrote:

Griff wrote:

Allty wrote:Would not a 3rd - 4th choice prop from the O's be a good call.

Didnt Bath do OK

Bath? Not sure I follow? Unless you mean Paul James? But he was 1st choice LH at Ospreys, not 3rd or 4th. Which 3rd or 4th choice prop did Bath have?

We've got 3rd or 4th choice front rowers from other regions currently (Owen Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Sam Parry, Nathan Williams - all Scarlets actually!) and the proof is in the pudding. They were 3rd or 4th choice, and subsequently surplus to requirements, for a reason. I.e. they're not that good. They're grafters, good honest players. They might do OK in a few years. But as a results business we need to see some results now.

Griff Paul James became first choice, because of game time, determination and ability.

But your post said that a 3rd or 4th choice prop from the Ospreys should be who the dragons bring in. However, you named a first choice prop and Wales international star instead. So, name me a 3rd or 4th choice prop at the Ospreys who the Dragons should target as a signing, and justify to me why they will be the answer to our scrummaging problems. Thanks.

Stone Motif wrote:Why was he sat on the bench though? Why was Khan preferred?

Nobody knows, that's why at the time, everybody at the Liberty were baying for blood over the situation, perhaps SS is right, perhaps it was Rhys Webbs attitude, or the fact that Kahn was on such high wages there was more pressure to be used more, but in the end he started to improve, but then people were saying it was because he was after an extra year on his contract, as soon as he got that his form dipped again, then all of a sudden his form started going up would you believe it he has been snapped up by Northampton, you never know though, perhaps Northampton will give their Welsh scrum half back to one of the regions now that they have Kahn.

I'm not wasting my time helping a region in its death throes.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Not a dig at the Dragons, just an example, I remember fans complaining about Haoni McDonald's constant selection being down to the board, I believe, wanting him playing because his wages were higher than other players.

I'd be amazed if Turnip would have been willing to put up with that kind of sh1t on his watch. I seem to remember Hoani doing his Kobe Bryant impression in the 2nd row a fair bit, mostly because we had bugger all else. Played a fair bit at 6 too. Where it evidently set a young Dan Lydiate's career back by about 5 years

Allty wrote:I'm not wasting my time helping a region in its death throes.

Great. See you then, thanks a million for your contribution.

Allty wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Allty wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

Well you can, but other posters won't listen to you.

Dont be so sure. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who post on this thread who may. But the rest of us just smile knowingly at the bias from the East

Pretending 'everyone' agrees with you when you have lost an argument. The last refuge of the keyboard warrior...

It is concerning that he counts himself and Dowlais as the majority right enough.

Not at all there is always silent majority.

The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.

I can see an argument for 2nd/A teams but the majority of the arguments we're having on here is because we haven't got enough talent to go around. For the regions to be competitive in the league and Europe, especially given that Wales players are away from the club for such long periods, we need at least two decent options in each position with probably a 3rd player to cover for injuries and absence (international call ups, etc.). To have A teams you'd then need double that, so you'd need players 4,5 and 6 in the pecking order (or at least 4 and 5) to make up the 30 man squads for these teams. There simply are not enough good players to do this. You'd just make A teams of the standard of Division 1 and you'd just get the same problems with stepping up as we do now with the step up from prem to Pro. And who would they play? Each other? As SS says we've already got that with the academies where they play each other at U16 and U18 level. And these are likely to be those players at 4,5,6 in the pecking order anyway. Therefore no need IMO.

So, the real problem is that we haven't got enough good enough players to fill 4 squads. Hence we need to fill with either overseas or local players, and a lot of the time we either can't afford good options or they turn out to be not so good or they are not up to the required standard (these points relate to both overseas and welsh equally). This is where the argument to scrap a region comes in. Now I'm personally against this as I think, dare I say it, that this will block player development. 4 is the magic number for me. If the Dragons had been scraped then I wonder whether Lydiate, Faletau, Coombs, Charteris, Brew, Burns, etc. would have come through? Maybe, maybe not. The challenge, for me, is to to manage to fill these squads in such a way that they become competitive enough to grow the business with trophies and subsequent increase in fans, sponsorship, revenue, etc. while at the same time producing players for the international team. Flooding the teams with foreign players might do the former but not the latter, and only playing emerging kids might do the latter but not the former. Therefore a mix is the way forward. And that's why the NWQ player limit is in place. As long as we're not breaking it then I don't see a problem.

Stone, to be fair that was around the end of Turner's reign. I think it was Monte Fisto on the old 606 nentioned it. Any if you lot know where he disappeared to?

LordDowlais wrote:the fact that Kahn was on such high wages there was more pressure to be used more,

More than all the money invested in Webb since he entered the O's academy at age 15? They reportedly have to top up their academy by hundreds of thousands of pounds per year to keep it running as well as it admittedly does. For me it's because Webb's strength is as an athlete. Unfortunately for him, a better athlete came along.