How much is someone like Punk worth?

This thread is a spin off of the Punk discussion and I thought it would be worth discussing in its own right.

Someone mentioned about Punk going to TNA.

My question is, how much is Punk worth to TNA?

Let me give you a few examples.

Could TNA give Punk (figure plucked out of the air) $2m a year (assuming that WWE dont pay him that) to be on Impact?

And if they did, would they recoup it in people buying PPVs etc? I mooted something like this about Brock before he showed up in WWE and was wondering, how much impact would THE top guy give TNA? Is it worth breaking the bank for him? How much would it take?

Who would be the top signings that could make a difference?

Even if they paid Punk 1mil, I doubt they would recoup that, which is more down to the fanbase then anything, and I doubt he would take many fans across as most would be wwe loyal.

In answer to your last question, I would say no one, and not because Im being sarky and meaning nothing would bring TNA any closer, but because no one has any real name value in wrestling anymore to make that impact and make you watch. You would get the initial intrigue with a taker or Cena Batista going to TNA but it would soon die down.

Yeah, I agree with bretmeharty, I'm not sure there is anybody big enough to make a lot of people watch TNA. Even if you have somebody like The Rock joining, I think it wouldn't make the huge difference people expect. TNA just doesn't have the name value to even make the most of having a big name like that.

I think that Social Media would have them gain a little bit of market share. Even if TNA's marketing dept couldnt put them in the mainstream spotlight, a tweet telling people where and when the millions and millions could watch The Rock wrestle again would have some people tune in!

Whether it would be sustained with the product keeping people watching is a different question but I dont think it would make a huge difference long term.

I think that someone like Punk would take over WWE fans.

Paying him $1m per year might be a loss leader over the short term but would build the brand significantly.

Every house show that goes on would be sold out with WWE fans. This is a guy at his peak.

I think the problem is that the majority of WWE fans are more likely to be casual fans, the ones who watch WWE because it's WWE, not because the wrestlers they like are on the program. There'd obviously be quite a big following for Punk, but not enough to even come close to tipping the balance.

Agreed - the Big star is to draw people initially. The product has to be good to keep them tuning in.

I would say that at the moment, the TNA creative is ahead of WWE creative.

I am not saying that TNA is good but I am saying that WWE is a shambles.

Adam D wrote:Agreed - the Big star is to draw people initially. The product has to be good to keep them tuning in.

I would say that at the moment, the TNA creative is ahead of WWE creative.

I am not saying that TNA is good but I am saying that WWE is a shambles.

I don't think the big star would draw that many people though. Jeff Hardy was probably the most popular guy in wrestling when he left WWE, he was certainly challenging Cena, he was just as popular as Punk is now, yet he made very little difference when turned up in TNA. Hulk Hogan is the biggest name in wrestling, even now more people know and recognise him than any other wrestling personality in the world, and yet he made no difference.

I think WWE has such a hold on the wrestling business as a whole that for most WWE is wrestling, that's it, if a wrestler leaves, it doesn't matter where they turn up, they'll just continue to watch WWE.

Crimey wrote:

Adam D wrote:Agreed - the Big star is to draw people initially. The product has to be good to keep them tuning in.

I would say that at the moment, the TNA creative is ahead of WWE creative.

I am not saying that TNA is good but I am saying that WWE is a shambles.

I don't think the big star would draw that many people though. Jeff Hardy was probably the most popular guy in wrestling when he left WWE, he was certainly challenging Cena, he was just as popular as Punk is now, yet he made very little difference when turned up in TNA. Hulk Hogan is the biggest name in wrestling, even now more people know and recognise him than any other wrestling personality in the world, and yet he made no difference.

I think WWE has such a hold on the wrestling business as a whole that for most WWE is wrestling, that's it, if a wrestler leaves, it doesn't matter where they turn up, they'll just continue to watch WWE.

Would agree with your comments except for the highlighted bit. By the time Jeff turned up in TNA, any popularity had severely wained and he was nowhere near Punk/ cena levels.

Also, although Hogan is still the biggest name, 90% of the WWE crowds have never seen him or know him. If you polled a RAW crowd who is the biggest star in wrestling, more would say OPunk than Hogan.

Adam D wrote:

Crimey wrote:

Adam D wrote:Agreed - the Big star is to draw people initially. The product has to be good to keep them tuning in.

I would say that at the moment, the TNA creative is ahead of WWE creative.

I am not saying that TNA is good but I am saying that WWE is a shambles.

I don't think the big star would draw that many people though. Jeff Hardy was probably the most popular guy in wrestling when he left WWE, he was certainly challenging Cena, he was just as popular as Punk is now, yet he made very little difference when turned up in TNA. Hulk Hogan is the biggest name in wrestling, even now more people know and recognise him than any other wrestling personality in the world, and yet he made no difference.

I think WWE has such a hold on the wrestling business as a whole that for most WWE is wrestling, that's it, if a wrestler leaves, it doesn't matter where they turn up, they'll just continue to watch WWE.

Would agree with your comments except for the highlighted bit. By the time Jeff turned up in TNA, any popularity had severely wained and he was nowhere near Punk/ cena levels.

Also, although Hogan is still the biggest name, 90% of the WWE crowds have never seen him or know him. If you polled a RAW crowd who is the biggest star in wrestling, more would say OPunk than Hogan.

With respect Adam, I think your kidding yourself if you think that's true, Hogan may have been persons-non-gratas with the WWE since he joined TNA, but chances if you got into the product over 5 years ago you will know who he is, hell even my missus knows who he is, regardless if less of the new generation know him now that WWE isn't constantly advertising his name, 3 years ago when he joined TNA every wrestling fan worth their salt (and I think the minimum expectation of someone who would branch out to other wrestling promotions is that they know who Hogan is) knew who he was, and the difference was negligible and short lived.

Also, I think your exagerating when you talk of Hardy's reduced popularity, he was only out for just over 4 months, and he was massive when he left.

I might be wrong on the Hardy thing but you also have to remember that TNA was a lot further back then too, so his appearance was not so heralded as it would be now.

As for the Punk/ hogan thing, I think I explained my thoughts poorly.

What I meant was that Hogan is the biggest star in the world and will most probably always will be. However, within the WWE Universe, I reckon more people will know Punk.

And that is down to the fact that 90% of them are >10 years old. They will buy the Merch/ figures/ Stickers/ Pyjamas of Ryback, Cena and Punk. They dont know who Hogan is.

If we used Heros family as a benchmark, his wife would know Hogan but his children would only want to know about Ryback.

I would use my family but my wife hates wrstling (and me), and the kids arent allowed to watch a morally corrupt sport of wrestling!

the point to the above being that for TNA to grow, they need to get the WWE Universe to watch, not the casual viewers who know hogan.

Yeah I am sure that at least when he joined TNA that Hogan was still a huge name in wrestling, in fact that was the last time people genuinely thought TNA could challenge WWE, they moved to Monday Nights and I think everybody thought the Hulk factor would push them to challenge WWE, but it didn't work. I think that doesn't mean Hogan wasn't the name they thought he was, it's just the simple facts that having a big name is unlikely to change anything.

Dr G is spot on. I agree entirely.

Punk has candidly stated on several occasions that it isnt about the money for him. The character he has been portraying in the last year isnt far from the truth of what Punk actually wants. He just wants to be respected, he wants to be where he feels he deserves to be on the card. His comments on Raw this week about always wanting the next challenge are legitimately true, thats what he really wants.

TNA would be a step back for Punk. He knows if he went there he'd be handed anything he wants on a silver platter but that isnt Punk. He doesnt want to be spoon fed, he wants to earn his spot in the upper echelons of the best wrestling promotion in the world, he wants to be the biggest fish in the biggest pond, not the biggest fish in a puddle which is what he'd be in TNA.

Besides, Punk's worth to WWE is invaluable now.

Adam D wrote:I might be wrong on the Hardy thing but you also have to remember that TNA was a lot further back then too, so his appearance was not so heralded as it would be now.

As for the Punk/ hogan thing, I think I explained my thoughts poorly.

What I meant was that Hogan is the biggest star in the world and will most probably always will be. However, within the WWE Universe, I reckon more people will know Punk.

And that is down to the fact that 90% of them are >10 years old. They will buy the Merch/ figures/ Stickers/ Pyjamas of Ryback, Cena and Punk. They dont know who Hogan is.

If we used Heros family as a benchmark, his wife would know Hogan but his children would only want to know about Ryback.

I would use my family but my wife hates wrstling (and me), and the kids arent allowed to watch a morally corrupt sport of wrestling!

I think TNA is in exactly the same position as it was when Hardy joined. I don't think there has been a significant change in viewership or number of people at events, PPV buys or anything like that? Punk joining would be very similar to Hardy joining then, maybe if he didn't take a break it'd have a little more of an impact.

I think those fans, the ones who say Punk is the biggest name in wrestling, they're the ones who watch WWE because it's WWE, and will stick to WWE because WWE is wrestling.

I'm not sure 90% of the WWE audience are as young as you are making out, you're probably right in regards to merch sales for obvious reasons but I think the audience is still a lot more adult and that would be the market TNA are looking to capitalise on as a younger audience who are generally finding their feet in the wrestling world are probably less inclined to search out other wrestling promotions anyways, and even when they got there, they would probably less likely to be taken by the grittier and 90's orientated TNA style.

Anyways that's beside the point I was making, when Hogan joined TNA, he was arguably still a much bigger star than Punk is now, and that his apperance didn't make a massive sustained difference in TNA's business indicates that if Punk did now it would probably have a similar effect.

As you know I am not a TNA hater and would like to see them do well, and as much as Punk would be a massive coup for TNA, I don't think there is any magic formula that would suddenly turn them into a powerhouse on a national level, it's going to take a hard grind even to reach the levels of JCP (Starrcade 1983 drew and audience over 6x the size of BFG 2012) even before Ted Turners billions turned them into a true competitior.

While were on the subject of Wives and Girlfriends and their knowledge of wrasslin', when TNA toured the UK, Hogan apparently made an apperence of this morning, my girlfriend saw this and told me, the message she took away, WWE were coming to the UK, she was surprised when I told her that Hogan was now in another promotion.

Rather than a name like Punk, I think TNA would need a series of names to see a big jump in viewers. For example, if the signing of Hardy had been followed by some other decent names (Orton, Sheamus, Big Show etc) it would have helped to secure viewers. As it was anyone who tuned into see Hardy got the Nasty Boyz, Val Venis and co.

Remember when Val Venis pinned Daniels clean? Ahhh the good old days

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:the message she took away, WWE were coming to the UK, she was surprised when I told her that Hogan was now in another promotion.

Exactly. To most people, including I imagine a very large proportion of the WWE audience, wrestling is WWE.

Crimey wrote:

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:the message she took away, WWE were coming to the UK, she was surprised when I told her that Hogan was now in another promotion.

Exactly. To most people, including I imagine a very large proportion of the WWE audience, wrestling is WWE.

I'm not saying that in a happy or boastful way, I just thought it was interesting food for thought

That said, I need to get it drummed into her, I don't need her to know the difference between ICW and Chrikara but the woman I'm going to marry needs to be able to differ between WWE and TNA

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:

Crimey wrote:

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:the message she took away, WWE were coming to the UK, she was surprised when I told her that Hogan was now in another promotion.

Exactly. To most people, including I imagine a very large proportion of the WWE audience, wrestling is WWE.

I'm not saying that in a happy or boastful way, I just thought it was interesting food for thought

That said, I need to get it drummed into her, I don't need her to know the difference between ICW and Chrikara but the woman I'm going to marry needs to be able to differ between WWE and TNA

I've only just told my girlfriend that I still watch wrestling. I told her I used to when my youtube started recommending youtube videos. After 3 years I finally got the courage to tell her.

She knows very little, I think she knows who Sheamus is because I told her. I will educate her over time. My first education started with her asking what about it was real, and what was fake.

I am one of those people. To me, wrestling is WWE. If Punk went to TNA I still wouldnt bother watching it. Hell I loved Mr Kennedy but him being in TNA didnt get me interested. To me (and I gather to most other WWE loyalists) TNA will always be a second rate poor mans WWE. I know that may anger some people but thats just me. I never bothered with WCW or ECW and I will never bother with TNA regardless of who they sign.

Unless of course they signed Fandango...

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:I am one of those people. To me, wrestling is WWE. If Punk went to TNA I still wouldnt bother watching it. Hell I loved Mr Kennedy but him being in TNA didnt get me interested. To me (and I gather to most other WWE loyalists) TNA will always be a second rate poor mans WWE. I know that may anger some people but thats just me. I never bothered with WCW or ECW and I will never bother with TNA regardless of who they sign.

Unless of course they signed Fandango...

That's your choice mate but I think you're missing out

Faaaaandaaaaaangoooooo

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:I am one of those people. To me, wrestling is WWE. If Punk went to TNA I still wouldnt bother watching it. Hell I loved Mr Kennedy but him being in TNA didnt get me interested. To me (and I gather to most other WWE loyalists) TNA will always be a second rate poor mans WWE. I know that may anger some people but thats just me. I never bothered with WCW or ECW and I will never bother with TNA regardless of who they sign.

Unless of course they signed Fandango...

That's your choice mate but I think you're missing out

Don't worry, you're not

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:I am one of those people. To me, wrestling is WWE. If Punk went to TNA I still wouldnt bother watching it. Hell I loved Mr Kennedy but him being in TNA didnt get me interested. To me (and I gather to most other WWE loyalists) TNA will always be a second rate poor mans WWE. I know that may anger some people but thats just me. I never bothered with WCW or ECW and I will never bother with TNA regardless of who they sign.

Unless of course they signed Fandango...

That's your choice mate but I think you're missing out

Don't worry, you're not

There's wrestling outside WWE and TNA, just by the by Chris have you ever seen AJ vs Joe vs Daniels from Unbreakable 04/05? It's a good reminder of why some folk still care about TNA.

How can wwe fans describe wwe as wrestling show?? For me its an entertainment programme and it doesn't even entertain me. Before you mention tna I haven't seen tna in months.

I refuse to go back and watch TNA that is reportedly good because it will make me even sadder when I watch TNA. I generally try not to watch old indy stuff either, I've made sure I watched old Punk vs Joe and some old Bryan Daniel DanielBryanson but the rest I leave to the ethers of time.

Fwiw I think TNA could make some ground if it took Punk, Bryan, Ambrose and Orton. Real wrestling darlings and a big name in Orton would draw huge attention and if they hit the right note from the start they would be too good to ignore. That's a lot of people to suddenly take though, and I think how badly they got sued could end them

The problem is Im an extreme WWE loyalist. As in I watch every Raw and Smackdown without fast forwarding it. That is 5 hours of wrestling a week. I just dont have time to get into other promotions.

Following on - would Orton be a good signing for them ?

Would it draw any people in?

I dont think it would.

Adam D wrote:Following on - would Orton be a good signing for them ?

Would it draw any people in?

I dont think it would.

Not really tbh I don't think anyone has ever truly cared about Orton, plus he's not exactly been impeccable on the behavior front

if punk went to tna, id almost certainly not watch wwe anymore

the only ones keeping me interested are lesnar, bryan and the shield. luckily for me, theyre all getting pushed or at least (in lesnars case) just destroying people

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:The problem is Im an extreme WWE loyalist. As in I watch every Raw and Smackdown without fast forwarding it. That is 5 hours of wrestling a week. I just dont have time to get into other promotions.

Not even the adverts?

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:I refuse to go back and watch TNA that is reportedly good because it will make me even sadder when I watch TNA. I generally try not to watch old indy stuff either, I've made sure I watched old Punk vs Joe and some old Bryan Daniel DanielBryanson but the rest I leave to the ethers of time.

Fwiw I think TNA could make some ground if it took Punk, Bryan, Ambrose and Orton. Real wrestling darlings and a big name in Orton would draw huge attention and if they hit the right note from the start they would be too good to ignore. That's a lot of people to suddenly take though, and I think how badly they got sued could end them

You're missing out man AJ/Joe/Daniels > Punk/Joe

One individual big name coup won’t make a difference. Kurt Angle is proof of that. Jeff Hardy is proof of that. It will take more than 1 big name signing to revolutionise TNA. Has TNA grown sufficiently as a promotion since these 2 joined them? No, I don’t think it has. When Hogan signed and the new ‘Monday Night War’s came about I imagine TNA had huge hopes for their future but there is no chance in hell that their current stature is what they envisioned it would be 2 years ago. They have stood still and I don’t think they will be globally recognised much more than what they were 2 years ago.

If Punk, Orton, Bryan & Ambrose all went to TNA at the same time however, THAT would make a difference!

Statto00 wrote:

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:The problem is Im an extreme WWE loyalist. As in I watch every Raw and Smackdown without fast forwarding it. That is 5 hours of wrestling a week. I just dont have time to get into other promotions.

Not even the adverts?

Oh yeah I FF the ads of course!!