Scotland players to receive lions letters

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The Scotsman newspaper this morning claims to have the inside scoop on Scottish players to receive initial lions letters. These letters inform players they are in the running for the squad or the reserve list. Apparently these are required to get legal issues sorted in time.

They are:

Ross Ford
Greig Laidlaw
Matt Scott
Tim visser
Ryan Grant
Richie Gray
Stuart Hogg

That list seems fair,as they are probably the players you would pick as having a chance.

The one notable exception is Kelly Brown - I hope that is just an oversight from the Scotsman? I'd like to think he'd at least be on the reserve list.

As for how many actually travel - who knows!

Any word in the press of these letters from other nations?

welshboii15 wrote:Back row for me would be

Tipric
Warburton
Kelly brown
SOB
Faletau
Lydiate

Both Brown and SOB can play 6,7 and 8 and both offer different things
Lydiate is tackling machine if he was fit.
Warbs and tipric battle for 7 with Faletau the out and out 8

personal opinion I get people won't agree but its what think.
but your saying Warburton is a 6.5 on form the man is an out standing out and out 7 he is a class act. But grey has offered no form at all, last 6 nations he was class since then he's not the same.

Personally I'd go for a pack consisting of

1. Healy
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. O'Connell (Captain)
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau

16. Grant
17. Best
18. Coles
19. Launchbury
20. Warburton

The real travesty is that more Edinburgh players have received letter than Glasgow players. Whilst being a "tackling machine" is commendable, it doesn't show a great deal of skill, at u13 level all players should be able to tackle consistently. His tackles aren't big tackles and quite frankly all flankers should be "tackling machines" I get what you're saying but I think now the necessity for a tackling machine has gone because of the added mobility of the front five, the best teams now play with either a carrying six or a 6.5 at six, I think that tactically if you asked Brown, Warburton or O'Brien to do what Lydiate does they'll be more than capable.

I don't think Lydiate is the best 6 I just think he's the best at what he does, he goes in chops the players and Warburton digs for the ball and then Faletau carries that's how the welsh back line levels out. I know Scotland have a good back row with brown Rennie and Beattie but brown can do all three jobs that's why he's got to travel plus he can do lydiates job which is ok

irnbrew wrote:Will any other number 6 be as good as Lydiate 5 or 6 games down the line leading up to the first test than Lydiate that is what Gatland will be thinking.And as also as been stated before most of the other contenders do not play 6 at international level and its no good saying they can for they don.t so are unproven at that level thats another thing Gatland will consider to be honest i will be surprise if Lydiate does not travel as one of the few out and out 6.s in contention

Are you seriously suggesting that Brown isn't a proven international six? He's played most of his rugby there and has played there all season for Saracens, who've reached the semi-finals of Europe's biggest club competition, this season he's played more international rugby than Lydiate and more rugby at six playing for a better team in a better competition, and by that I mean the HC not the Aviva premiership.

welshboii15 wrote:I don't think Lydiate is the best 6 I just think he's the best at what he does, he goes in chops the players and Warburton digs for the ball and then Faletau carries that's how the welsh back line levels out. I know Scotland have a good back row with brown Rennie and Beattie but brown can do all three jobs that's why he's got to travel plus he can do lydiates job which is ok

With all due respect I don't think the Australians will fear a Welsh back row simply because they've ruined you lot at the breakdown in recent years also it was simply down to them that the Welsh team had their meltdown what's to say that it won't happen again.

Well what other back row you going take as welsh back row took apart the back rows of the 6 nations two years on a row but like I said id be happy to see Kelly brown in match day team but like everyone else has said tipric and Faletau will he there so two out three im back row is close to the welsh back row so Australia ain't going be scared of the back row for lions

123 it was not a critisism of Brown as a player i did not mention Brown what so ever i stated that non of the contenders play at international level at 6 and they don.t what they have done in the past for club or what ever is not at international level as for Brown i consider a fine player you will not get any argument from me on that subject but at the moment Lydiate is one of the few 6.s in contention and by the way Lydiate was outstanding against Australia in the summer if you read the Australian press at the time

welshboii15 wrote:Well what other back row you going take as welsh back row took apart the back rows of the 6 nations two years on a row but like I said id be happy to see Kelly brown in match day team but like everyone else has said tipric and Faletau will he there so two out three im back row is close to the welsh back row so Australia ain't going be scared of the back row for lions

The back rows I'd take on tour would be: O'Brien, Brown, Warburton, Barclay, Tipuric, Beattie and Faletau
but I imagine Robshaw will probably get in ahead of Barclay because Barclay hasn't played
international rugby this year and Heaslip ahead of Beattie simply because Beattie wasn't mentioned in the article.

irnbrew wrote:123 it was not a critisism of Brown as a player i did not mention Brown what so ever i stated that non of the contenders play at international level at 6 and they don.t what they have done in the past for club or what ever is not at international level as for Brown i consider a fine player you will not get any argument from me on that subject but at the moment Lydiate is one of the few 6.s in contention and by the way Lydiate was outstanding against Australia in the summer if you read the Australian press at the time

You said they had no experience of playing at that level, which was incorrect so I corrected you and I don't believe that Lydiate should be in contention, in my opinion he's not even the best six when he is fit let alone when he hasn't played international rugby in 12 months.

Bearing in mind none of the exiles are mentioned numbahs. Furthermore, Heaslips inclusion is another based on reputation rather than form.

Lydiate is a machine when 100% fit he's the best 6 we could take on the lions, but he's not fit he shouldn't travel so Brown is just as good or close enough, is fit and is on form so deserves it

welshboii15 wrote:Lydiate is a machine when 100% fit he's the best 6 we could take on the lions, but he's not fit he shouldn't travel so Brown is just as good or close enough, is fit and is on form so deserves it

I think we should just agree to disagree on Lydiate's overall ability but we can agree on Brown

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Bearing in mind none of the exiles are mentioned numbahs. Furthermore, Heaslips inclusion is another based on reputation rather than form.

Also more Edinburgh players than Glasgow which can't be right

Who said Lydiate is not fit in his last game 19 unassissted tackles 10 assissited tackles 14 rucks hit 3 carries how fit are you suppose to be that is a lot of work for some one if they are not fit

But that's it you can say agree to disagree on lydiate but I feel same on Hogg because he's not that good. But yes we can agree on brown

welshboii15 wrote:But that's it you can say agree to disagree on lydiate but I feel same on Hogg because he's not that good. But yes we can agree on brown

Okay I'll leave you with this to have a think about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z91l6pyMcyY

He does nothing halfpenny and Kearney can't do, and don't bother saying halfpenny isn't attacking because you'd be talking out your back side, yes hogg is a good attacker but that's all he does better than halfpenny or Kearney.

welshboii15 wrote:He does nothing halfpenny and Kearney can't do, and don't bother saying halfpenny isn't attacking because you'd be talking out your back side, yes hogg is a good attacker but that's all he does better than halfpenny or Kearney.

Attacking is half of the game, and his punting is just as good, Halfpenny wouldn't have scored the try that Hogg scored against Italy nor the one against Munster. Halfpenny's a very good player but on hard soil Hogg would be devestating, just look at Australia and New Zealand's full backs Beale and Dagg, Hogg is the closest the northern hemisphere has to either of them.

Attacking isn't half the game against Australia defending is. The try against Italy wasn't an out standing try he was in the right place at right time any one with pace would have scores it simlar to Rhys Williams try against Scotland all hogg had to do is step Giovanni, his try against Munster was his last bit of brilliance. Hogg wouldn't have scored the try halfpenny did against Toulon a much better try

welshboii15 wrote:Attacking isn't half the game against Australia defending is. The try against Italy wasn't an out standing try he was in the right place at right time any one with pace would have scores it simlar to Rhys Williams try against Scotland all hogg had to do is step Giovanni, his try against Munster was his last bit of brilliance. Hogg wouldn't have scored the try halfpenny did against Toulon a much better try

Attacking isn't half the game against Australia defending is. The try against Italy wasn't an out standing try he was in the right place at right time any one with pace would have scores it simlar to Rhys Williams try against Scotland all hogg had to do is step Giovanni, his try against Munster was his last bit of brilliance. Hogg wouldn't have scored the try halfpenny did against Toulon a much better try

welshboii15 wrote:Attacking isn't half the game against Australia defending is. The try against Italy wasn't an out standing try he was in the right place at right time any one with pace would have scores it simlar to Rhys Williams try against Scotland all hogg had to do is step Giovanni, his try against Munster was his last bit of brilliance. Hogg wouldn't have scored the try halfpenny did against Toulon a much better try

Such an attacking force he scored a try which all he had to do is out pace Toby flood, then a try which he had out pace Italian forwards the only try he did anything decent in was the one he set up for Maitland

Boil, pls stop, I'm going to rupture my sides, they're hurting too much - comedy value

Come on what has he done so good nothing if he was so good clearly he would have been closer to player of 6 nations was he in top 3 no he did nothing

welshboii15 wrote:Come on what has he done so good nothing if he was so good clearly he would have been closer to player of 6 nations was he in top 3 no he did nothing

Hoggy was 3rd, you complete dolt!

Boi, best stop now before you embarrass yourself even further. Hoggy is class. Live with it.

My bad 40% vote halfpenny 11% zanni and 8% Hogg so ok he was in top 3 but 32% less vote than halfpenny so clearly shows people rated halfpenny more than hogg

welshboii15 wrote:My bad 40% vote halfpenny 11% zanni and 8% Hogg so ok he was in top 3 but 32% less vote than halfpenny so clearly shows people rated halfpenny more than hogg

Boil, really, I mean really?!?! You do realise that it's a public vote? So that would be all c.3m Welsh folk and the 4 Scots that give a Poopie

Haha all the excuses in the world coming out now as you said public vote so clearly more people voted halfpenny than hogg so enough said

welshboii15 wrote:Haha all the excuses in the world coming out now as you said public vote so clearly more people voted halfpenny than hogg so enough said

Not the sharpest, eh? More Welsh people voted ...

That's what im getting at all the excuses in the world saying only 4 voted. Just over 80,000 people voted well done all 3million welsh voted.

I'm sure we've been here before, several times....

I'm just waiting on the Laidlaw argument to re surface again.

Ach i was rounding it up for you, Boil - nice big numbahs

welshboii15 wrote:Come on what has he done so good nothing if he was so good clearly he would have been closer to player of 6 nations was he in top 3 no he did nothing

Welsh Boy, how can you take a poll like that seriously for deciding who is a better player?

Is this the same one that saw Adam Jones shortlisted for only missing 1 tackle and Owen Farrell for people talking about him on Twitter?!

Hogg is good. So is Halfpenny. Who is better? Well that's a matter of opinion. I honestly can't say who is better as such - they are different players with strengths and weaknesses. On a hard pitch playing a running and offloading game, with Farrell or Sexton kicking the points, I know who I would want, and his name isn't Leigh. But in a closely fought attritional game I'd want Halfpenny. Take away the goal kicking responsibilities from Halfpenny and he is still good, but not so good as some Welsh fans see him to be. Similar to us Scots with Paterson - we rated him so highly partly because he scored most of our points, even though Parks or WCP would have been able to score most of the same kicks.

Want some other big numbers 32,000 people voted for halfpenny compared to the 6,400 that voted for hogg so you was only 6,396 out when you said only 4 people voted for hogg not far out honest. But how many teams play and beat Australia at open rugby very few if any, its all up front like Scotland proved, so I personally see halfpenny as the closer more tight game player, if you get for instance Beale breaking through one on one who which will happen on more times than not you want halfpenny as your one not Hogg

Boil, don't disagree with that - the Lions will play Gatlandball , so 1/2p is yer man

Ford and Visser - jesus H . How stupid is Gatland

I hope he don't play that way because it don't work but no does trying to beat them out wide it don't work so keeping it tight and take your chances that's what lions got to do they most likely will spend more time defending getting dragged from side to side so you want big but mobile pack and your best defenders with the odd strike runners

I hope he don't play that way because it don't work but no does trying to beat them out wide it don't work so keeping it tight and take your chances that's what lions got to do they most likely will spend more time defending getting dragged from side to side so you want big but mobile pack and your best defenders with the odd strike runners

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Ford and Visser - jesus H . How retarded is Gatland

insightful as always

So basically, the Welsh players are the greatest the world has ever seen and the others are a load of rubbish.

welshboii15 wrote:Want some other big numbers 32,000 people voted for halfpenny compared to the 6,400 that voted for hogg so you was only 6,396 out when you said only 4 people voted for hogg not far out honest. But how many teams play and beat Australia at open rugby very few if any, its all up front like Scotland proved, so I personally see halfpenny as the closer more tight game player, if you get for instance Beale breaking through one on one who which will happen on more times than not you want halfpenny as your one not Hogg

But if the 32,000 held the same unique opinions that have no basis as you do then the poll is invalid, Halfpenny had a fantastic six nations there's no disputing that at all, he is a very good player who won't make many mistakes but as an individual attacker he is limited especially in comparison to Hogg, as Highland Scot said his kicking ability added to people's opinion of him (Highland Scot, let's be honest World Class Phil would have got all of the kicks that CP did, there's nothing he can't do) but on the hard ground I'd want Hogg because of his pace and counter-attacking ability especially if Sexton and Farrell, who are better kickers, are around.

BamBam wrote:So basically, the Welsh players are the greatest the world has ever seen and the others are a load of rubbish.

Do you know outside of Wales rugby isn't meant to be played? You are merely meant to admire the Welsh teams and understand that if they lose it is because: (Delete as appropriate)
A. The ref cheated
B. The Linesman cheated
C. They had injuries (no other countries have these)
D. The weather was bad
E. The opposition played negative rugby

You're learning...

BamBam wrote:So basically, the Welsh players are the greatest the world has ever seen and the others are a load of rubbish.

Yeah. The rest of us need to 'get over it'.



On form, the Scotland players who should tour are Grant, Brown, Laidlaw, Scott, Maitland & Hogg. Gray, Barclay, Murray and a fit Rennie would also be in the mix.

Just my unbiased opinion.

You're right, us Welsh do get a little "over excited" around Lions time, but it's all down to passion for the game.

Trying to think about it from an unbiased point of view, I'd probably go for:

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. POC
5. Grey
6. Brown
7. Rennie
8. Denton
9. Laidlaw
10. Sexton
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. BOD
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

BamBam wrote:So basically, the Welsh players are the greatest the world has ever seen and the others are a load of rubbish.

It took a while to get the message across, but thank The Lord it is finally sinking in to everyone

irnbrew wrote:Who said Lydiate is not fit in his last game 19 unassissted tackles 10 assissited tackles 14 rucks hit 3 carries how fit are you suppose to be that is a lot of work for some one if they are not fit

A match vs a much weakened Munster who have nothing left to play for in the Pro12. Good gauge of form - a game no one cares about - not even the teams involved.

No I personally wouldn't look at Lydiate based on that match.


Welshboi you say that Lydiate is a tackle machine. Aren't most 6s and 7s strong tacklers? I know that Brown is an immense tackler. Others like Wood and Robshaw are pretty good too.

I just don't see what Lydiate could offer that others don't. SOB offers something different. So does Croft. Lydiate in my opinion doesn't.

I know he's Welsh so he must be god's gift to the world but other than being Welsh how is he better than the likes of Wood,Brown,Robshaw,SOB etc?

If Lydiate had a good season showing good form he would be in the mix. As he only has a game vs a disinterested Munster as proof of his legendary status I don't think it's enough personally.

123456789 wrote:

BamBam wrote:So basically, the Welsh players are the greatest the world has ever seen and the others are a load of rubbish.

Do you know outside of Wales rugby isn't meant to be played? You are merely meant to admire the Welsh teams and understand that if they lose it is because: (Delete as appropriate)
A. The ref cheated
B. The Linesman cheated
C. They had injuries (no other countries have these)
D. The weather was bad
E. The opposition played negative rugby

F.If Scotland beat Wales it is either a miracle or an example of match fixing of epic proportions!

CurlyOsp wrote:You're right, us Welsh do get a little "over excited" around Lions time, but it's all down to passion for the game.

Trying to think about it from an unbiased point of view, I'd probably go for:

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. POC
5. Grey
6. Brown
7. Rennie
8. Denton
9. Laidlaw
10. Sexton
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. BOD
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Thanks for the Support curly but surely you are not suggesting Ford, Murray and denton go? They have been knickers of late. Rennie is a great player but suffers from the same situation as Lydiate, been injured for too much of the season to warrant a place!

Also, to the numpies who keep saying Brown is not a 6! HE IS A SIX!!! He has just beenplaying 7 this season for scotland because our coaches are all rather nuts!