Where have all the 10s gone?

by dragonbreath Wed 01 May 2013, 3:56 pm

The very fact that most people (myself included, and I am not his biggest fan by any means) are praying that Jonny is somehow talked into joining the tour party is a terrible indictment of the quality of 10s plying their trade in the Premiership and Pro 12. If Sexton gets injured we are in all sorts of trouble. Farrell is at best a limited player who despite his media generated reputation for being an "iceman" is prone to losing his cool under pressure and completely bottled it in the 6n decider.

The cupboard is pretty bare and we should have a sniper in the stand protecting Sexton from late tackles and cheap shots.

Is there a reason for this huge hole in an otherwise talented squad with depth in every other position, ?

by nlpnlp Wed 01 May 2013, 3:59 pm

Apart form Carter what other "stella" 10s are there - even New Zealand don't have any. I think it is the way the game is being played now that is stopping the running, elegant 10 that we long to see. Too defensive.

by Mickado Wed 01 May 2013, 4:02 pm

Don't worry, Madigan is on standby... Smile

by Geordie Wed 01 May 2013, 4:03 pm

And we'll have Burns to compete against them soon.

by majesticimperialman Wed 01 May 2013, 4:13 pm

Mickado wrote:Don't worry, Madigan is on standby...

IS HE?....Have they named any stand by player/s just incase of injury?

by dragonbreath Wed 01 May 2013, 4:14 pm

Mickado wrote:Don't worry, Madigan is on standby...

Have to admit I would have welcomed Madigan or Burns even though his name has not been mentioned as much, as an option. Calling on Jonny when even he doesn't think he is up for it is the act of a desperate man/public, and is only happening because of dire quality of cover. Burns and Madigan may not be first choice for their country but they could well have made a Guscottesque impact.

by Mickado Wed 01 May 2013, 4:18 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Mickado wrote:Don't worry, Madigan is on standby...

IS HE?....Have they named any stand by player/s just incase of injury?

The man is in a perpetual state of readiness. But not in any official capacity, that I know of.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 01 May 2013, 4:20 pm

nlpnlp wrote:Apart form Carter what other "stella" 10s are there - even New Zealand don't have any. I think it is the way the game is being played now that is stopping the running, elegant 10 that we long to see. Too defensive.

Barrett and Cruden aren't the complete players yet but they are pretty bloody good

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 01 May 2013, 4:22 pm

nlpnlp wrote:Apart form Carter what other "stella" 10s are there - even New Zealand don't have any. I think it is the way the game is being played now that is stopping the running, elegant 10 that we long to see. Too defensive.

No you can't have Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett, Tyler Bleyendahl, Gareth Anscombe, Tom Taylor or Baden Kerr. We might let you borrow Chris Noakes or Stephen Donald, or maybe Nick Evans if you ask really nicely Wink

Edit, too slow, CJ beat me to it.

by Geordie Wed 01 May 2013, 4:27 pm

Well it looks like England and Ireland can only benefit by having Burns and Madigan on their own tours.

Ireland find out they have two class 10's (with Sexton) and England confirm Burns is WAY superior than Farrell.

by fa0019 Wed 01 May 2013, 4:31 pm

Could be interesting for Farrell... probably will come back with 3 lions caps but if all goes well he could be out of the team come the AIs.

by Geordie Wed 01 May 2013, 4:38 pm

In all honesty i think Farrell has a lot of qualities that could make him a very good Fh...and hopefully a tour with the lions can push him on in the areas he needs to work on.
He is a matchwinner, he's proven that...but he is also a potential game loser with his handling etc...lets see how he goes.

For me though Burns is potentially sheer quality.

by **George Carlin** Wed 01 May 2013, 5:09 pm

Could be worse. We could be France and be relying on fearless Freddie. Let's compare nations, then:

Carter, Barrett, Cruden and Evans - NZ

Steyn, Lambie, Goosen and James - SA

Cooper, O'Connor, Foley, Toomua - Australia

Actually, the Wallabies potentially have a less well established roster at the moment. Where have all the 10s gone? 3187153522

Don't worry about the NH - we'll have Madigan, Hanrahan, Ford, Burns, Heathcote and Russell coming through in the next 4 years. We'll be sorted for the next Lions tour.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 01 May 2013, 5:13 pm

nlpnlp wrote:Apart form Carter what other "stella" 10s are there - even New Zealand don't have any. I think it is the way the game is being played now that is stopping the running, elegant 10 that we long to see. Too defensive.

I'd describe Danny Cipriani as a "stella" 10.

Ale

by ChequeredJersey Wed 01 May 2013, 5:14 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
nlpnlp wrote:Apart form Carter what other "stella" 10s are there - even New Zealand don't have any. I think it is the way the game is being played now that is stopping the running, elegant 10 that we long to see. Too defensive.

I'd describe Danny Cipriani as a "stella" 10.

by Jhamer25 Wed 01 May 2013, 5:34 pm

grown up or retired.
Johnny wilks - old (should be going but has his own doubts do to his body)
Ronan O'Gara - old/retiring
Stephen Jones - old retiring
Charlie Hodegson - old (doesnt' want anymore international rugby due to his age which would affect his choice for the lions, but without a doubt the best 10 in england at the moment)

Madigan - hasn't enough experience with his club side yet no matter international, will have more chances to shine when johnny sexton is gone (also johnny is the number 1 10 in britain so he hasn't got much of a chance at the moment)
Biggar - Not ready inexperienced for the lions level
Cipriani - hahaha god can't even consider him really as a 10 can't tackle to save his life.

by red_stag Wed 01 May 2013, 6:14 pm

Are we seeing the number 9 become a more pivotal player in terms of managing the backline?

by doctor_grey Wed 01 May 2013, 6:28 pm

It is evolving, and clearly varies from team to team and nation to nation, but essentially, yes. The 9s are many times the ones calling the shots and the 10s are there to pass to the centres.

by sickofwendy Wed 01 May 2013, 6:36 pm

Toby flood would have been a good pick,I'm not his biggest fan but I think he would have complimented sextonvery well.
As it stands its just boring..........where is the flair!!!

by **George Carlin** Wed 01 May 2013, 8:05 pm

sickofwendy wrote:Toby flood would have been a good pick,I'm not his biggest fan but I think he would have complimented sextonvery well.
As it stands its just boring..........where is the flair!!!

Here it is: http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/glasgow-warriors/player/stuart-hogg

by ChequeredJersey Wed 01 May 2013, 8:06 pm

The end of bracket isn't in the hyperlink btw, GC

by **George Carlin** Wed 01 May 2013, 8:16 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:The end of bracket isn't in the hyperlink btw, GC

Chequered. Where have all the 10s gone? 3610695981

Reposted. Boom.

by sickofwendy Thu 02 May 2013, 7:47 am

A keen golfer too,the boy can do it all. Very Happy

by **Biltong** Thu 02 May 2013, 8:03 am

South Africa has been struggling with a decent 10 to challenge the kicking metronome Morne Steyn.

It was only in the last 18 months or so that we have unearthed some talent at 10.

Johan Goosen is a very promising talent, but played little rugby last year due to a serious shoulder injury and was out for most of it, then started this year in Super XV and got injured again, he will now only be back in 2014.

Patrick Lambie has been shifted around too much, but due to Goosens' injury got a chance last year, he is only 22 and shows a good balance between kicking and being able to hit the gap or get his backline away. I am just worried that Meyer might curd his natural instincts.

Elton Jantjies shows some promise, but I think his move to the Stormers was overhyped and everyone saw him as the saviour for the Stormers, he had some issues this year though, his father passed away earlier this year and he had some injuries as well, the games he did play he was disappointing.

The Cheetahs being on their third choice fly half has uncovered a gem in Burton Francis, he has been around for a while, but being at the bulls he got little opportunity to show his wares, he has run out for the Cheetahs in their last 6 or so matches and has been very good indeed.

SO our stocks are improving, I just hope they are all allowed to play the game the way they want to rather than just be the next Morne Steyn mould.

by Mickado Thu 02 May 2013, 8:42 am

George Carlin wrote:
sickofwendy wrote:Toby flood would have been a good pick,I'm not his biggest fan but I think he would have complimented sextonvery well.
As it stands its just boring..........where is the flair!!!
Here it is: http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/glasgow-warriors/player/stuart-hogg

Hogg is a class player George, but seriously, has he played OH since school? I don't recall him ever playing there for Glasgow, and certainly not for Scotland.

by dragonbreath Thu 02 May 2013, 11:49 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:In all honesty i think Farrell has a lot of qualities that could make him a very good Fh...and hopefully a tour with the lions can push him on in the areas he needs to work on.
He is a matchwinner, he's proven that...but he is also a potential game loser with his handling etc...lets see how he goes.

For me though Burns is potentially sheer quality.

Unless he starts winning his own penalties as well as kicking them, Farrell is not a bloody match winner. Sick of the cowpat surrounding this boys ability. He wouldn't even be in the Welsh or Irish squads. Hell he'd be lucky to make the summer tours

by BlueNote Thu 02 May 2013, 11:53 am

There are good young 10s coming through in a number of different home nations.

by Geordie Thu 02 May 2013, 11:56 am

You are free to your opinion DragonB Wink

by beshocked Thu 02 May 2013, 12:09 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:In all honesty i think Farrell has a lot of qualities that could make him a very good Fh...and hopefully a tour with the lions can push him on in the areas he needs to work on.
He is a matchwinner, he's proven that...but he is also a potential game loser with his handling etc...lets see how he goes.

For me though Burns is potentially sheer quality.

Unless he starts winning his own penalties as well as kicking them, Farrell is not a bloody match winner. Sick of the cowpat surrounding this boys ability. He wouldn't even be in the Welsh or Irish squads. Hell he'd be lucky to make the summer tours

I am equally sick of the trashing of Farrell. Farrell gets so much criticism for a 21 year old with one AP title to his name, 4 out of 5 in the 6 nations this season, a win vs the ABs. Wins vs Munster and Ulster in the HC.

Most of the criticism for Farrell comes from just two games vs Wales and Toulon. Would you say Wales and Toulon are poor sides? Bear in mind Wales were also at home and really motivated to stop England. Toulon have a playing budget of £8 million with a star studded squad.

Farrell's team got to the HC semi and are currently top of the AP. Not bad at all I would say.

Farrell has lost when fly half to good sides.

Compare this to supposedly Ireland and England's new hopes - Madigan and Burns.

Madigan got humiliated by Parks and Connacht this season. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19741256

Burns got humiliated by Macleod/Cipriani and Sale Sharks recently. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22083724

You might say an one off game doesn't matter but you happy to bash Farrell for one game.

by Bathite Thu 02 May 2013, 1:12 pm

George Carlin wrote:Could be worse. We could be France and be relying on fearless Freddie. Let's compare nations, then:

Carter, Barrett, Cruden and Evans - NZ

Steyn, Lambie, Goosen and James - SA

Cooper, O'Connor, Foley, Toomua - Australia

Actually, the Wallabies potentially have a less well established roster at the moment.

Don't worry about the NH - we'll have Madigan, Hanrahan, Ford, Burns, Heathcote and Russell coming through in the next 4 years. We'll be sorted for the next Lions tour.

Bath bailing out the 2017 Lions there! ;)

by dragonbreath Thu 02 May 2013, 2:17 pm

beshocked wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:In all honesty i think Farrell has a lot of qualities that could make him a very good Fh...and hopefully a tour with the lions can push him on in the areas he needs to work on.
He is a matchwinner, he's proven that...but he is also a potential game loser with his handling etc...lets see how he goes.

For me though Burns is potentially sheer quality.

Unless he starts winning his own penalties as well as kicking them, Farrell is not a bloody match winner. Sick of the cowpat surrounding this boys ability. He wouldn't even be in the Welsh or Irish squads. Hell he'd be lucky to make the summer tours

I am equally sick of the trashing of Farrell. Farrell gets so much criticism for a 21 year old with one AP title to his name, 4 out of 5 in the 6 nations this season, a win vs the ABs. Wins vs Munster and Ulster in the HC.

Most of the criticism for Farrell comes from just two games vs Wales and Toulon. Would you say Wales and Toulon are poor sides? Bear in mind Wales were also at home and really motivated to stop England. Toulon have a playing budget of £8 million with a star studded squad.

Farrell's team got to the HC semi and are currently top of the AP. Not bad at all I would say.

Farrell has lost when fly half to good sides.

Compare this to supposedly Ireland and England's new hopes - Madigan and Burns.

Madigan got humiliated by Parks and Connacht this season. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19741256

Burns got humiliated by Macleod/Cipriani and Sale Sharks recently. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22083724

You might say an one off game doesn't matter but you happy to bash Farrell for one game.

Farrell in my opinion is as good as he is going to get so his age is irrelevant. Any improvement will be the equivalent of polishing a turd. The success or otherwise of any team he plays in has very little to do with his actual ability which is staggeringly limited. My point is that he not a match winner he plays in very good sides and for the most part strolls through games in a comfy chair. Hell Sarries prefer Charlie at 10 most of the time (when they look a much better team). What does that tell you.

He is a reasonable kicker who despite the media creation of him being something of an iceman is anything but. When the heat is on he loses not only his composure but his temper.

Very very ordinary player, and never a Lion in any other generation, or squad in which his Dad is not a selector

by **George Carlin** Thu 02 May 2013, 2:56 pm

Mickado wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
sickofwendy wrote:Toby flood would have been a good pick,I'm not his biggest fan but I think he would have complimented sextonvery well.
As it stands its just boring..........where is the flair!!!
Here it is: http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/glasgow-warriors/player/stuart-hogg

Hogg is a class player George, but seriously, has he played OH since school? I don't recall him ever playing there for Glasgow, and certainly not for Scotland.

Er, no. My guess is that Gats may not even have cleared that comment with Hogg before Gats made it. laughing

by Mickado Thu 02 May 2013, 4:05 pm

You've got to go back to September to find a game Madigan didn't perform in.

He was actually Leinsters best player that day anyway Laugh

by sickofwendy Thu 02 May 2013, 4:08 pm

Polishing a turd,I take it your not a fan.

by Sin é Thu 02 May 2013, 4:24 pm

beshocked wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:In all honesty i think Farrell has a lot of qualities that could make him a very good Fh...and hopefully a tour with the lions can push him on in the areas he needs to work on.
He is a matchwinner, he's proven that...but he is also a potential game loser with his handling etc...lets see how he goes.

For me though Burns is potentially sheer quality.

Unless he starts winning his own penalties as well as kicking them, Farrell is not a bloody match winner. Sick of the cowpat surrounding this boys ability. He wouldn't even be in the Welsh or Irish squads. Hell he'd be lucky to make the summer tours

I am equally sick of the trashing of Farrell. Farrell gets so much criticism for a 21 year old with one AP title to his name, 4 out of 5 in the 6 nations this season, a win vs the ABs. Wins vs Munster and Ulster in the HC.

He was very poor in Thomond Park. Missed 4 kicks out of 7. Looks like he does well when at home, but away from home is a different matter (which is what Australia will be).

by SecretFly Thu 02 May 2013, 5:55 pm

Where have all the 10s gone?

Sounds like a damn fine Country song.

Where have all the 10s gone?
Where did they go?
Sexton runs like an Ostrich,
Wilco don't wanna know.

Where have all the 10s gone?
We'll need them down below.
Madigan kinda looks promising,
His haircut - well, we don't rightly know.

Where have all the 10s gone?
There's bound to be more than two?
But One plus One equals Farrell
'Cause his daddy done wrote the rules.

by wales606 Thu 02 May 2013, 10:22 pm

Rhys Patchell 2017 Whistle

by maestegmafia Fri 03 May 2013, 12:00 am

Wales have a few good lads, Biggar for one. I had never been a big fan of his until the last twelve months where he has really proved an instrumental player. Younger than Bigfar are Patchell and Williams.

All three have regularly displayed all that Farrell doesn't. I still can't fathom why Farrell is on the tour. Great goal kicker but does bugger all else.

by Hound of Harrow Fri 03 May 2013, 1:26 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
nlpnlp wrote:Apart form Carter what other "stella" 10s are there - even New Zealand don't have any. I think it is the way the game is being played now that is stopping the running, elegant 10 that we long to see. Too defensive.

I'd describe Danny Cipriani as a "stella" 10.

Oi!! Point of order.

Did you see the state of that bus in Leeds?

He's obviously learned how to tackle.

Whistle

by Feckless Rogue Fri 03 May 2013, 2:03 am

SecretFly wrote:Where have all the 10s gone?

Sounds like a damn fine Country song.

Where have all the 10s gone?
Where did they go?
Sexton runs like an Ostrich,
Wilco don't wanna know.

Where have all the 10s gone?
We'll need them down below.
Madigan kinda looks promising,
His haircut - well, we don't rightly know.

Where have all the 10s gone?
There's bound to be more than two?
But One plus One equals Farrell
'Cause his daddy done wrote the rules.

You my friend, have just written your first number one hit record.

I think Farrell is quite good. He's had a good season with a couple of poor games near the end. A couple of years younger than Madigan too I think. I love Madigans exciting style of play. I'm also a fan of Biggar. Have no knowledge of Burns. There are some very good tens. The age profile and number of caps is quite low though. They've it all ahead of them.

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