Utd's New Man

First topic message reminder :

IF Sir Alex does finally hang up his hair dryer, who should be the man to replace the legendary Scot?

Jose? - Proven in the EPL and Europe but may jump ship after two - three seasons.

Klopp? - Has formed a very good team at Dortmund but has not managed in the EPL and has a little to prove.

Moyes? - Has made Everton a tough hard working unit, and has Fergie's inner steel qualities but is that enough? Hasn't won a single thing in over 10 years of management.

Anyone else?

How much will Sky offer him to be a pundit?

Cannot understand the fuss about Moyes, has done little in his career, ok he has done ok with Everton, but they haven't really progressed under him, and actually flirted with relegation a couple of seasons, I actually remember Everton fans chanting for him to go one season.....and now he's linked with the biggest job there is!

Everton haven't progressed under Moyes? #headsgone

@BBCSport: BREAKING: David Moyes is set to be appointed as Sir Alex Ferguson's successor at Manchester United - via @DavidBondBBC #bbcfootball #mufc

Olly wrote:Everton haven't progressed under Moyes? #headsgone

2002 15th
2003 7th
2004 17th - Everton fans calling for his sacking
2005 4th - the highlight of his Everton career, but lost in CL qualifier
2006 11th
2007 6th
2008 5th
2009 5th
2010 8th
2011 7th
2012 7th
2013 Probably 6th

No trophies. Poor when qualified for Europe. Flirted with relegation, the rest of the time around 5th and 6th, just about where Everton have been for about 25 years, kind of like an ever present also ran. Not really progression for me.

I don't think you understand just how good a job keeping Everton in the top half is given their debt

Just my opinion mate, he's a good manager no doubt at a club with, lets be honest, little expectation, Utd job is a whole different kettle of fish.

Time will tell I suppose, but thought Utd would go for someone with more of a proven track record.

Don't know if anybody has seen this or not, made me laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-rS1m1vF_k

As a mark of respect for the retirement of Sir Alex Ferguson there will be 5 minute's extra time at all premiership game's this weekend!!

Some folk were moaning about Moyes' lack of experience. Well, if the top clubs don't give managers like Moyes chances, how do they get experience?

I think there's having 2 games of CL experience and getting a job at one of the biggest 5 clubs in the world

The Special Juan wrote:Some folk were moaning about Moyes' lack of experience. Well, if the top clubs don't give managers like Moyes chances, how do they get experience?

By taking previously out-of-Europe clubs into the Champions League through their own ability. Like what Redknapp did with Tottenham, or Ferguson did with United.

I'll counter with the very boring "he doesn't have any money to work with" so he does very well to get anywhere near the European places in terms of points.

Now I see Moyes is 99% certain to be the next manager of Manchester United. One thing he'll have to deal with that he doesn't usually - pressure. Lots of it. I presume it begins with the community shield against Man City, but then again it could be Wigan - I'm sure he'd relish that!

JPX wrote:

Olly wrote:Everton haven't progressed under Moyes? #headsgone

2002 15th
2003 7th
2004 17th - Everton fans calling for his sacking
2005 4th - the highlight of his Everton career, but lost in CL qualifier
2006 11th
2007 6th
2008 5th
2009 5th
2010 8th
2011 7th
2012 7th
2013 Probably 6th

No trophies. Poor when qualified for Europe. Flirted with relegation, the rest of the time around 5th and 6th, just about where Everton have been for about 25 years, kind of like an ever present also ran. Not really progression for me.

Actually if you look in the 90's, they only finished top half once.
http://www.toffeeweb.com/history/records/league-record.asp

Considering the amount of money teams around them spend, to be consistently 5/6/7th is very good.

As I said, expectation at Utd is slightly different.

The resources available at Utd are also slightly different.

He could realistically buy 2 of his best 3 players at Everton and still have change.

The Special Juan wrote:I'll counter with the very boring "he doesn't have any money to work with" so he does very well to get anywhere near the European places in terms of points.

And I'll counter with the even more boring "he's never advanced his own career." He's been happy to stay at Everton, little pressure, little expectation. Moyes has never looked, until now, to advance his own career, he's never strived to better himself.

How will he cope with the pressure, the stifling level of expectation, the bigger-reputation players with inflated egos? How will he cope with having a lot of money to spend, will he make the right purchases, will he offload the right players? He's never had to deal with that before, now he'll be thrown in at the deep end of the biggest club in England, against a hungry-again City, against a resurgent Chelsea with a returning Mourinho, against Tottenham and Arsenal who are always lurking. Not forgetting the battles in Europe against the top teams in Spain and Germany. Does he have what it takes?

Little pressure? Don't be a plonker.

Don't know whats funnier to me. The United fans belittling Moyes record, or those that wanted Mourinho.

Oh wait, the 2 are the same.

Duty281 wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:I'll counter with the very boring "he doesn't have any money to work with" so he does very well to get anywhere near the European places in terms of points.

And I'll counter with the even more boring "he's never advanced his own career." He's been happy to stay at Everton, little pressure, little expectation. Moyes has never looked, until now, to advance his own career, he's never strived to better himself.

How will he cope with the pressure, the stifling level of expectation, the bigger-reputation players with inflated egos? How will he cope with having a lot of money to spend, will he make the right purchases, will he offload the right players? He's never had to deal with that before, now he'll be thrown in at the deep end of the biggest club in England, against a hungry-again City, against a resurgent Chelsea with a returning Mourinho, against Tottenham and Arsenal who are always lurking. Not forgetting the battles in Europe against the top teams in Spain and Germany. Does he have what it takes?

Yeah, what he said ^^^^^^^

GSC wrote:Little pressure? Don't be a plonker.

What pressure has he had at Everton?

The pressure of being a PL manager for one.

The pressure of the standards they've set themselves as a top 6-7 club.

The pressure of keeping Everton afloat, and having to sell players to buy.

Hell, the pressure of managing a club in Liverpool.

Hard to believe I know, but there is a football world outside OT.

Mind you I suppose SAF will still be there to guide Moyes when needed, I can see him being a kind of unofficial number 2.

Now yes Moyes is making a step up. And no, we can't say it will be a success with certainty.

But you know, if big clubs restricted themselves to people that had only managed big clubs before, we'd run out of managers after a while.

GSC wrote:The pressure of being a PL manager for one.

The pressure of the standards they've set themselves as a top 6-7 club.

The pressure of keeping Everton afloat, and having to sell players to buy.

Hell, the pressure of managing a club in Liverpool.

Hard to believe I know, but there is a football world outside OT.

Exactly. Little pressure compared to what awaits him at Old Trafford.

The pressure of being the manager of the biggest club in England.

The pressure of managing a club that has won 5 league titles since 2006.

The pressure of those noisy neighbours, and Chelsea, with their near unlimited finance.

The pressure of managing a club that has reached 3 CL finals in the last 5 years.

The pressure of having some inflated egos to manage.

The pressure of overthrowing the Spanish-German domination in Europe.

The pressure of having millions and millions of fans across the world.

Duty281 wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:I'll counter with the very boring "he doesn't have any money to work with" so he does very well to get anywhere near the European places in terms of points.

And I'll counter with the even more boring "he's never advanced his own career." He's been happy to stay at Everton, little pressure, little expectation. Moyes has never looked, until now, to advance his own career, he's never strived to better himself.

How will he cope with the pressure, the stifling level of expectation, the bigger-reputation players with inflated egos? How will he cope with having a lot of money to spend, will he make the right purchases, will he offload the right players? He's never had to deal with that before, now he'll be thrown in at the deep end of the biggest club in England, against a hungry-again City, against a resurgent Chelsea with a returning Mourinho, against Tottenham and Arsenal who are always lurking. Not forgetting the battles in Europe against the top teams in Spain and Germany. Does he have what it takes?

Ok he's never moved on, I'll give you that, but has anyone been after him? I'm curious to know whether another club has actually enquired about him since he was at Everton. I suppose we'll see how he copes at Utd; it's sink or swim time for him; is he as good as the pundits claim he is and will do a great job at Utd or is a small-time manager happy to do a job unnoticed who might freeze like a rabbit in the headlights? I think with Fergie behind him helping him out, he'll do well. I don't see the egos at Utd being a massive problem because aside from Rooney I think they've been very well kept in check over the last 27 years and Moyes is near enough the same type of "psycho" Fergie is. From watching on TV, I'm more scared of Moyes than Fergie!!

GSC wrote:Now yes Moyes is making a step up. And no, we can't say it will be a success with certainty.

But you know, if big clubs restricted themselves to people that had only managed big clubs before, we'd run out of managers after a while.

This is an extreme step-up. Everton to Manchester United. Light years apart.

The Special Juan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:I'll counter with the very boring "he doesn't have any money to work with" so he does very well to get anywhere near the European places in terms of points.

And I'll counter with the even more boring "he's never advanced his own career." He's been happy to stay at Everton, little pressure, little expectation. Moyes has never looked, until now, to advance his own career, he's never strived to better himself.

How will he cope with the pressure, the stifling level of expectation, the bigger-reputation players with inflated egos? How will he cope with having a lot of money to spend, will he make the right purchases, will he offload the right players? He's never had to deal with that before, now he'll be thrown in at the deep end of the biggest club in England, against a hungry-again City, against a resurgent Chelsea with a returning Mourinho, against Tottenham and Arsenal who are always lurking. Not forgetting the battles in Europe against the top teams in Spain and Germany. Does he have what it takes?

Ok he's never moved on, I'll give you that, but has anyone been after him? I'm curious to know whether another club has actually enquired about him since he was at Everton. I suppose we'll see how he copes at Utd; it's sink or swim time for him; is he as good as the pundits claim he is and will do a great job at Utd or is a small-time manager happy to do a job unnoticed who might freeze like a rabbit in the headlights? I think with Fergie behind him helping him out, he'll do well. I don't see the egos at Utd being a massive problem because aside from Rooney I think they've been very well kept in check over the last 27 years and Moyes is near enough the same type of "psycho" Fergie is. From watching on TV, I'm more scared of Moyes than Fergie!!

Has he been after a bigger club? Nope, he's sat with his feet comfortably under the Everton table, and consistently finished in the top-half is all.

Ok Duty, well I wish you well with restricting yourself to managers that have broken into the top 4 with smaller clubs.

Like Redknapp. Hes gone from strength to-...

oh.

GSC wrote:Ok Duty, well I wish you well with restricting yourself to managers that have broken into the top 4 with smaller clubs.

Like Redknapp. Hes gone from strength to-...

oh.

Don't get me wrong, I want him to do well. But this is quite probably one of the biggest challenges in football. From managing a club expected to win nowt, to a club expected to win it all. Or most of it at least.

Fergie seems to think he'll do a great job and seeing as he's got a lot of things right so far, I'm willing to trust him one final time.

Yes its obviously a massive challenge.

But so is taking a side that has to sell before it can buy to the top 7 every year.

He might be a failure. He might need a transitional period. But if you don't people a chance to actually face these challenges, no one will ever beat them.

To my mind its better than 3-4 years of Mourinho investing heavily in players in their prime, then throwing a huff and leaving the club saddled with players past their peak on massive salaries, and no youth to speak of.

Yep it is a huge step up, just like Everton was a huge step up from Preston

Lets not write him off before he's selected his first 11 eh?

As a United fan I've wanted Moyes the past couple of years and I'm made up he looks to begetting his shot

What has Moyes done with Everton?

Consistently found gems on a budget, brought youth through, overachieved every season. For a club still working off its debt that sounds pretty attractive.

I dont think hes been sitting like a hobbit in his hole. What jobs would he go for? Chelsea and City arent suitable, cant go to Liverpool, Arsenal have had a manager. So Spurs or United? Spurs are far too desperate to be fashionable.

I think hes wanted this job and hes done the kind of job Sir Alex would respect. A lot of managers were made this way before the glamour of Europe. Should Ferguson have made it work? Wenger? Was Moyes' apprenticeship at Preston enough to suggest he could make Everton consistently better than Liverpool?

Moyes has done a fantastic job at Everton. Their wage bill last year was roughly the same as Villa's, and almost half of Liverpool's, so for him to keep them in the top six consistently is better than winning a one off cup.

Someone pointed out on the BBC site, that Jurgen Klopp didn't win anything in seven years at Mainz. He's not doing too badly at a bigger club now, so I don't think Moyes' lack of silverware should necessarily be held against him.

Anyone think Moyes would try and bring Fellani to Old Trafford ?

Only person I'd want from Everton would be Baines. Fellaini doesn't suit the way we play really. Would rather see Kagawa in behind RVP where he belongs. When they've been played that way both have excelled and its only because of Rooney's name and past glories he's shifted Kagawa out wide.

Fellaini is only good enough for United as a deeper midfielder. If he can be taught that role again then alongside better players he may be a real asset. Especially as he would pop in a few goals

Apparently Rooney asked two weeks ago to leave, I think the appointment of Moyes will only further push him out of the door, even if United claim he isn't for sale. They're better off selling him now than letting his value depreciate even further or lose him for nothing in 2015.

Any United fan who doesn't want Moyes needs their heads read.

It shows a real lack of understanding of the environment he inherited when he joined Everton and what he has done with the club since. He faces a glass ceiling and the only thing that is going to push Everton beyond it is serious investment.

If SAF took over at Wigan, would they become title challengers, or would SAF become a bad manager overnight. I'll stick my neck on the line, but had it been SAF at Everton in the same scenario, his achievements would have been no greater than Moyes'.

It is all relative. Consistently finishing in the top 6 or 7, plus a top 4 finish,in our circumstances, is the equivalent of regular top 4 finishes with maybe one or two titles.

BigFellasAfro wrote:Any United fan who doesn't want Moyes needs their heads read.

It shows a real lack of understanding of the environment he inherited when he joined Everton and what he has done with the club since. He faces a glass ceiling and the only thing that is going to push Everton beyond it is serious investment.

If SAF took over at Wigan, would they become title challengers, or would SAF become a bad manager overnight. I'll stick my neck on the line, but had it been SAF at Everton in the same scenario, his achievements would have been no greater than Moyes'.

It is all relative. Consistently finishing in the top 6 or 7, plus a top 4 finish,in our circumstances, is the equivalent of regular top 4 finishes with maybe one or two titles.

Looking at what SAF did to Aberdeen clearly disproves that idea.

I was unaware Everton are identical to a mid 80s Scottish club.

Mind you they probably have similar budgets

Not really clearly at all.

Are you really comparing Aberdeen's situation in the early 80's with Everton's now?

"Under Ferguson's guidance, Aberdeen won three league championships, one Drybrough Cup, four Scottish Cups, the European Cup Winner's Cup, the European Super Cup and a League Cup – all in the space of seven years."

That was on a tight financial limit, and he had to break the stranglehold of the Old Firm. He'd have done very well at Everton.

Scottish football in the 80's was not flooded with Sky and CL money.

SAF would have done well because he is a great manager, but with no money to spend, I struggle to see that he could have broken into the top 4 with Everton, in the current Premier League.

Regardless of who the manager is, the only thing that is going to take Everton that step further and into CL contention is finances to compete with the uber rich CL clubs.

Fergie broke up the big two in Scotland and also won a European trophy. Moyes on the other hand has won zilch. I admire the bloke and accept he has done a good job with Everton but this is a massive step up.

It is a massive step up and he has to prove himself. He will never achieve what SAF did at United IMO

My point is that people denegrate what Moyes has achieved at Everton because he has won 'zilch'.

Success is entirely relative, even more so in 21st century football where you are competing with clubs receiving massive sums from the CL.

Comparing 1980s Scottish football to current day Premier League is just too big a step. It is far harder to now to break a stranglehold, purely due to money

Moyes was never going to win the league, or get close but he maybe should have won a couple of cups in 10 years. Winning managers are lucky ones, and tbh, I'm not convinced he's a lucky one.