Good solid wins that have been diluted

Boxing debaters and journalists all have double standards I guess, I'm no different, what wins have kind of been dismissed throughout history in your opinion ?

Mostly i hear many inclined too downgrade Tunneys wins over Dempsey should bear in mind that Dempsey beat Jack Sharkey on the best night he ever had between those two fights.

If that version of Dempsey managed to win one round against Tunney in two fights, then it should at least suggest that Tunney was a lot better than Jack Sharkey (even when his head was screwed on), and probably better than Max Schmeling who had his hands full with the same version of Sharkey.

To give Holyfield his due we would have to consider that even a shot Tyson managed to hand Andrew Gollota his head after he had basicaly beaten Bowe into retirement.

I have always felt that Tyson's win over Holmes is sold short. Holmes beat Ray Mercer who gave Lennox Lewis a close fight. Nobody should have done tht to Holmes past his prime or not. I would even venture to say that if the 45 year old Holmes had fought a prime Lennox Lewis he would've done better.

Any others ?

Cheers Rodders

spinks beat an old Larry..........Bonecrusher Smith and Williams gave Larry great problems........

Ray Mercer lost to Jesse Ferguson!!!.........

Forgive me If I'm wrong but wasn't Sharkey handing Dempsey his backside when he turned to complain and got cheap-shotted to the deck...

Or am I thinking of another fight!!

I place Tunney over Dempsey due to his wins, I often get lambasted for it

I think Lewis' win over Vitali is picked apart, even in some corners described as a loss which adds credence to the heavyweights before him to rank higher in ATG lists which I'm afraid simply can't be the case. Vitali lost the fight, Lewis wasn't his usual self but bear in mind he did what hasn't been done before or since and that was have Vitali looking shaky and on the verge of being knocked out in the next 4/5 rounds in my view.

I'd agree about Tysons win over a "past it" Holmes is pulled apart needlessly too.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I place Tunney over Dempsey due to his wins, I often get lambasted for it .

Rightly so..Let's have Spinks above Holmes............

Well not really as Spinks didn't have that long a heavyweight career and styles make fights, I don't rank Buster Douglas above Tyson just because he won, there's other factors aswell TRUSS, don't be so picky.

Marlon Starling w12 Simon Brown
------------------------------------------

When Brown, Honey and Starling were champions..A lot of people regarded Brown as the best. Forgetting that Starling who was considered a trialhorse at the time had already given one of the best welters of the day a lesson......

For me this win with Breland twice, Honey, top contender Tommy Ayers, Kevin Howard and the respected Floyd Mayweather twice shows what a good career Moochie had........

Wonderful Boxing performance with a comical interlude when Brown being owned turns southpaw and Starling stops and stares at him as If to say.....As If I haven't seen a southpaw before..

Starling gets little credit for this win.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Well not really as Spinks didn't have that long a heavyweight career and styles make fights, I don't rank Buster Douglas above Tyson just because he won, there's other factors aswell TRUSS, don't be so picky.

Spinks fought Cooney, Tangstad, Tyson, Holmes twice........

Did Tunney have any more fights at heavy than that??

More than 6. Closer to 10. Spinks isn't an ATG Light Heavy. Tunney is. Meaning that across 2 weights, he has the better wins.

If Tommy Gibbons was a light heavy as classed by boxrec.......Then he maybe had one more fight than Spinks at heavy..........

Cooney will rank above Heeney............and an old Holmes above Dempsey in a lot of lists..........

Spinks like Tunney is a great fighter but not a great Heavy..........

Having him above Dempsey is bizarre..

Oddly enough, I think McGuigan sometimes doesn't get enough credit for beating Pedroza. I think the fact that people feel that McGuigan's overall career flattered to deceive in comparison to those who received such little fame and recognition but arguably deserved it more than Barry sometimes leads them to have an overly cynical view of the fight and Pedroza's state at the time.

I agree that it wasn't an absolute peak Pedroza that Barry got hold of, but I've heard lines such as "Pedroza was only there to collect the big pay cheque" and "Pedroza was completely shot" bandied about, which don't sit well with me.

The truth is that Pedroza's performance that night would have been enough to deny many top class Featherweights, that he did in fact give McGuigan plenty of problems right up until the last three rounds or so (which were, admittedly, all McGuigan) and that he showed immense heart, durability and grit, none of which pointed to a man who was more concerned with earining about £1 million (totally unheard of for a Featherweight at the time and still an eye-popping amount now) than keeping hold of a title he'd had for seven years and nineteen successful defences.

There have been some myths which have built around McGuigan's abilities and his career over time, but his win over Pedroza was the real deal, for me.

I dont think that James Buster Douglas gets the props for his Tyson win

There was a lot of talk about it not being the mythical peak tyson, or that his mind was elsewhere, or JBD got lucky

but the fact remains that JBD fought a near perfect fight that night, that although he never replicated (either before or after) deserves credit as not just being in the right place at the right time and lucking out

Lewis golota ought to have been a serious win now means little or nothing

The majority of Mayweather's fights, because he makes it look so easy.

Bowe vs Holy..............Holy was unbeaten......probably in his prime....A wonderful warrior with a great triple jab and a big heart....and Bowe stepped up and out fought him..........

Wonderful win..............much underrated..

beat him at his own game as well, excellent inside fighetr bowe

Throw in the word 'old' to this article and TRUSS is all over it like a Texan police officer to an 'alien' immigrant.

That simile was for you, Trussy.

Roy jones vs Hopkins the he was green argument doesn't sit well with me as they had roughly same experience at the time

Diamond in the rough wrote:Roy jones vs Hopkins the he was green argument doesn't sit well with me as they had roughly same experience at the time

Roughly the same pro experience, not boxing experience.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Bowe vs Holy..............Holy was unbeaten......probably in his prime....A wonderful warrior with a great triple jab and a big heart....and Bowe stepped up and out fought him..........

Wonderful win..............much underrated..

how, Bowe's whole legacy is pretty much based on that performance - You may be right, but that is a great win - surely most boxing fans know it that is

Bowe beat him twice..............Also beat a lot of unbeaten fighters........Gonzales, Hide..Donald.......Chuck in Tubbs, future world champ Seldon and two wins over Golota and you have a "Fantastic" career.......

to quote a knobhead

How about the Lacy win for Calzaghe?

Most people now say that Lacy was pish.

Mosley/Margarito

Most people say Shane only beat him cos his mind was elsewhere having been caught out re the handwraps, but Shane utterly annihilated that fella

Adam D wrote:How about the Lacy win for Calzaghe?

Most people now say that Lacy was pish.

I dunno. Think that's become common myth only in less boxing-educated circles. Credit is generally given where it's due on that on (I think) and it's rated as Top 3 win on JC's ledger.

Adam D wrote:How about the Lacy win for Calzaghe?

Most people now say that Lacy was pish.

Great win..........Lacy was rated highly just like Canelo is now.........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Adam D wrote:How about the Lacy win for Calzaghe?

Most people now say that Lacy was pish.

Great win..........Lacy was rated highly just like Canelo is now.........

And he'll be pish...just as soon as Floyd beats him

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Adam D wrote:How about the Lacy win for Calzaghe?

Most people now say that Lacy was pish.

Great win..........Lacy was rated highly just like Canelo is now.........

And he'll be pish...just as soon as Floyd beats him

Adam D wrote:How about the Lacy win for Calzaghe?

Most people now say that Lacy was pish.

He was incredibly limited to be honest, but yeah, possibly a bit underrated nowadays.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Diamond in the rough wrote:Roy jones vs Hopkins the he was green argument doesn't sit well with me as they had roughly same experience at the time

Roughly the same pro experience, not boxing experience.

Still doesnt get enough credit

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Adam D wrote:How about the Lacy win for Calzaghe?

Most people now say that Lacy was pish.

Great win..........Lacy was rated highly just like Canelo is now.........

And he'll be pish...just as soon as Floyd beats him

Lacy did subsequently look rubbish though.

Calzaghe's win over Tocker Pudwill deserves more recognition and respect.

Dempsey v sharkey is a terrible example. Seeing as by all accounts Dempsey was taking a hiding. And kept throughout in low blows. Sharkey kept complaint to th ref, then in the 7th (I think) while I. The process of complaining gets floored. Dempsey has had Vetter nights than that. Tunney beat an old slow, inactive ring rusty Dempsey I'm afraid. He still had heart and power. But none of that stalking power and speed that made him great. Tunney wins were still great, but they do deserve to have a little of their shine taken away from them.

Given the other thread Froch-Bute should probably be added to this list.....

sittingringside wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Adam D wrote:How about the Lacy win for Calzaghe?

Most people now say that Lacy was pish.

Great win..........Lacy was rated highly just like Canelo is now.........

And he'll be pish...just as soon as Floyd beats him

Lacy did subsequently look rubbish though.

Isn't that the point of this thread though!

Wins that were great ( and this one was ) but subsequently people have gone back to rubbish?

Randall's win over Chavez gets nothing like the degree of credit that it deserves, for reasons that elude me. For all the talk about Lockridge being unlucky, Taylor being screwed by Steele and Pea being plain robbed, it was The Surgeon who finally beat JCC so convincingly that even the usual, King-inspired, pro-Chavez scorecards couldn't come up with a computation that made Chavez the winner. Floored him too, which underlines that this was more than a mere technical exercise.

Think that Hearns' victory over Benitez gets unnecessarily short shrift from many people as well, possibly because Benitez was not far from his career-ending slide. A win that showcased Hearns' all-round boxing virtuosity, not to mention the ability to think his way through a fight. A great shame that Tommy didn't display this quality against Leonard and Hagler, or we'd be likely talking about the greatest fighter in history.

One judge had Hearns-Benitez a draw.............Shocking!!

Mccallum vs Julian Jackson
Arguello vs Mancini
Mccallum vs Watson
Spinks vs Qawi
Benitez vs Cervantes
Taylor vs Mcgirt