Saints and Stevie Myler - not good enough

Another thought about Saints.
Actually its about Stevie Myler.

A few seasons ago Stevie was not good enough and Shane Geraghty was brought in to replace him. Instead Stevie was out half in the Heineken Cup finals. Geraghty couldn't beat out Myler despite opportunity after opportunity, and eventually was gone.

Now Saints have Ryan Lamb who has been given opportunity after opportunity to beat out Myler. At the end of the season Lamb will be gone - thankfully playing for Tigers. And Stevie will be out half in the Premiership finals.

Saints have been in the Premiership Top 4 each of the past 4 seasons. And they have acquitted themselves pretty well in the Heineken Cup over that period, mostly in the games in which Myler was playing.

Now, clearly I am not comparing Stevie with the best 10s in world Rugby. And the backs/running game is not Saints strength. But after too many years of Stevie Myler not being good enough, I have to ask: How can he not be good enough?

I don't care about flash. Saints have won with Stevie and no reason why they can't continue to do so. The fly half position is too important to be left to an idiot or a real limited player. And I presume we all agree an idiot or truly limited fly half cannot win year after year. Stevie has.

I am content.

What thinkest thou all?

Dr_G, I think you have a good point. Myler is good, solid fly half that rarely makes mistakes that will cost the game and can put the rest of the Team in a position to win games. Equally tho, I can't see him being quite good enough to win any silverware with - so I guess it's a question if how ambitious Saints are? Will AP playoffs bu not the trophy be acceptable?

Saints have won with Myler rather than because of him. He's reliable and a decent 10 but his lack of attacking flair has previously meant Saints have often subbed him when chasing the game.

Does a team have to have a superstar at fly half to win? Do we need another Wilkinson, Larkham or Mehrtens to win?

Wasps won with Alex King, Leicester won with roly-poly Andy Goode. Clermont is winning with Brock James. Brock James! Decent players, yes. But world beaters, no. Do they have to be? And I doubt anyone could have doubted the aspirations of any of those clubs to win.

My ambitions for my club are the same as many of us. I want to see us win. This season has seemed like so much of a plodding disaster. but here we are. Clearly not the favourites. But with at least a puncher's chance. And Stevie.

Nice one Doc.
You are quite right - all those names mentioned are destinctly average players RE: Flair. However, King and Goode at the time were exceptional goal kickers with % in the 80's (I dont know what James's % is).
Teams that have confidence in their goal kickers, that they will keep the score board ticking over are the ones that tend to come out on top.

What are the kicking % in the Aviva prem at the moment?
How does Myler compare?

He's no where near as bad as some people make out. Yes he's never going to set the world alight and be a world class 10 but he is suited to a certain game plan and the downside is the inability to play successfully a different way.

It is no coincidence that Saints best games have come when Burrell has played at 12 (and Downey previously) and the forwards get momentum with a strong carrying game.

He's top of the try assists list and apparently has the most line breaks of all the 10s, though the list I found only had the top 8 players who are all wingers so couldn't confirm this.

He's a confidence player who hasn't benefited from Mallinder's constant changing at 10 for the past few seasons but will hopefully get more consistency next year as the clear first choice 10.

People like to bash the Saints for whatever reason and Myler is the easy target. Sure saints supporters would love a Dan Carter, and as has been pointed out the club should have spent money on a 10 rather than North, but there has to be a suitably top class 10 available to spend the money on!

89Gareth Steenson

88 Nick Evans

87 Freddie Burns

78 Andy Goode

73 Charlie Hodgson

67 Stephen Myler

65 Toby Flood

62 Gordon Ross

46 Owen Farrell

44 Stephen Jones

Kicking stats are quite interesting.

There are some surprising names in the lower half of that table,
The 2 England 10's of Farrell and Flood.

Being a Luddite I don't know Stevie's numbers. When he was younger, he struggled with his kicks. They have improved significantly in the last few years. But I would still presume they are a notch below King and Goode. James is not always the kicker at Clermont, and I think is probably below Myler as a kicker. Possibly a better runner though.

On the other hand, I think Stevie is a better distributor than King or Goode. And is certainly a stronger tackler. Stevie has had numerous niggling injuries which limited him in contact earlier, but he shut down his slot against Sarries, which shows what he can do.

Myler I think is a good, solid player. In a similar bracket to the likes of Paul Burke.

I don't think a superstar is needed at FH to be successful but the like of Alex King just had a bit more flair about him, while being more dependable that Lamb or Gerharty.

I just think that Saints seem to have extreme FH's for a couple of years, no 'inbetween' type of player, A Toby Flood if you will who can kick goals and get a backline going a bit.

But 'safe' FH's are a bit of an easy target and as you say top 4 again means that Myler must be doing something right.

I must say that when Myler first started for Saints I thought he would be capped - I cant remember what the game was but I saw him making breaks, distributing and putting numerous runners into gaps and also not shirking the tackle.

When Stevie first came on the scene, he was a strong runner. He was also a kid. He has had to change his game quite a bit. On occasion, he does take a run, but Mallinder doesn't like that in a 10.

Looking around the England candidates, as someone else had said, the cupboard seems a bit bare. As England stand today, if Flood and Farrell get hurt, who is next? Burns? Then who after that?

Again, I am not saying Myler is, or should be, an international, but who is number 4? Stevie is consistently in the Saxons squad. Is he the 4th best England Qualified fly half in England today?

Has Steenson been capped by Ireland yet?

not sure, but I don't think so.

Think I read somewhere he had gon through age grade with Ireland. But now currently qualifies for England through residency.

I wouldnt be dissapointed to see him in a white shirt. Especially with those percentages.

It would depend on if he wanted to though.

I don't think Myler will ever get a senior cap even with the bare cupboard. He offers very little ball in hand and is the wrong side of 25. Hell, Allen the form 12 in the AP struggles to get a look in seemingly because he is over 25 and isn't an experienced international.

Myler does what he does and when he is given a capable midfield he does that well. A capable midfield does not involve two 13s neither of whom want to run the inside crash lines to take pressure off him. Burrell is a must selection in that regard.

Ken Pisi is a very good center - but Saints have struggled to replicate the Clarke and Downey combination.

Same issue with Quins - there has been a real lack of stability due to injuries in the mid field through the season.
Rarely have JTH and Lowe played together.

George is the one that plays in the centre, Ken is the winger.

George has had a pretty poor season this year and has struggled with injuries, being rushed back in a bit too early.

Burrell isn't quite the finished article yet, his defense has improved and still needs a bit more work but he goes some way to replacing Downey at 12. At the moment there is no one who is a like for like replacement for Clarke, Pisi has a better running game however his defense isn't as consistent. The biggest loss from Clarke is the amount of turnovers he made which has had an impact on the counter attacking of the back three and the work load of the backrow, resulting in a slight change of game plan.

Going forward Burrell has to play 12 with Pisi/Waldouck fighting for the 13 shirt.

I must say I always preferred Saints with Lamb at 10 rather than Myler, but Myler is such a safe and solid option that I think Saints have found it hard not to resist sticking by him.

Geraghty and Lamb were and always will be prone to having an off day, or making the odd bad call. Risk taking fly halves always will.

You'll do fine with Myler, but Sarries, Quins and Leicester, your big rivals, each distinguish themselves with better options in that key position.

As a Saints fan I find him just about acceptable, but a little frustrating. I know he is more of a steady eddy, reliable type 10 than a game tuner but occasionally he does stand flat (and probably thanks to his RL background) fizzes some good quality flat passes along the line which defences can really struggle to cope with. However at most we only seem to get 1 or 2 games a year of this (LI away last season was a prime example) which points to him being a player who maybe lacks some confidence in his own ability and all too easily reverts to type of sitting back too deep. Either that or he is instructed to play a more conservative game plan by the management. As others have commented his defense seems to have improved recently and he always seems to play better with a big ball carrying 12 (Downey, Burrell) as opposed to a more playmaker type 12 (Waldock, May).

I kind of think that JM prefers the French system of game management where the 9 makes more of the decisions. Lee Dickson, whose main strength for Saints is his game management, seems to the one who makes many of the kick or run decisions and I'm guessing that the plan will be for Kahn Fotuali'i to do the same next season with his experience and ability. This means that maybe an all singing and dancing 10 is not such a high priority at FG with the big bucks felt being better spent elsewhere (looking to the North ).

Perhaps Saints are trying to build his confidence for next year by already signing a utility player as the back up 10 (the guy from NZ who's name escapes me right now). Certainly his ongoing duels for the 10 shirt with first Shane Geraghty and the Ryan Lamb won't have done anything to make him feel more secure in years gone by.