Lions test 1 team and tactics...

I would personally go with a team like...

Cole
Hibbard
Healy
Evans
Grey
Warburton
Tipuric
SOB
Phillips
Sexton
Bowe
Roberts
Tuilagi
North
1/2p

My bench

Jones
Hartley
Jenkins
POC
Croft
Youngs
Hogg
BOD

There is a mix of experience and guile who start, and my bench would be just as comfortable coming on to change a game as it would be closing one out.

I would base my tactics on an extremely agressive and conditioned kick chase game, allowing Cole, Warbs and Tipuric to challenge on the floor, and a slow and considered attack with tons of pod use and big carries in the tight from the bludgeon in midfield. Ultimately my bench would be my overpowering strength, and something that Aus couldn't rival.

Let the slating commence

I'd like to beat the Barbarians first ....

I would personally go with...

Watching and enjoying the first parts of the tour before even thinking about test combinations!

Come on Bluesman, you said we must discuss the Lions team and now you open a new thread.

Mine is on the other thread we were discussing things.

rodders wrote:I'd like to beat the Barbarians first ....

Well that team will be Wales heavy, Gatland has form of selecting guys who know each other when under pressure and no prep time, I'd expect Wales +3/4 to start.

Win or lose thats what it'll be, there are only 6/7 non welsh in the squad isn't there, so it kinda picks itself.

Well it's quite simple if you don't want to talk about potential test teams, do not click on the thread that does so and let those who do want to do so, is that too much to ask Notch?

Biltong wrote:Come on Bluesman, you said we must discuss the Lions team and now you open a new thread.

Mine is on the other thread we were discussing things.

Ye I just saw yours, but opened this up to do it here as not to derail the other thread with SA talk

I'll copy and paste mine.

1. Cian Healy (A must in my opinion if not for his mobility)
2. I don't know because I wanted Best there.
3. Cole
4. Parling
5. O' Connell
6. SOB
7. Warburton (He will be ther,e but I think it is a mistake)
8. Faletau (Would have chosen Robshaw myself)
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Tuilangi
13. O'Driscoll (if he is up to it, otherwise Roberts)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney (is he in the squad, can't remember, otherwise Halfpound)

It's weird we are agreeing this morning, I'd have had Best, and Robshaw too (but not at 8) and you should be slated for daring to suggest Tuilagi and Roberts in midfield (even if you got them the wrong way around)

Perhaps a little shy on the lineout front wouldn't you agree? Evans would be your only major talent. Higginbottom is a good backline jumper too... against that backrow it would be quite dangerous.

Lions need to do something about Hooper mind. In a straight off fight I would rather Tipuric played. Difficult decision.

I know everyone believes Philips will be the half back, I just think Sexton is a dead certainty and would consider Murray.

But lets go with this for now.

1. Cian Healy (A must in my opinion if not for his mobility)
2. I don't know because I wanted Best there.
3. Cole
4. Parling
5. O' Connell
6. SOB
7. Warburton (He will be ther,e but I think it is a mistake)
8. Faletau (Would have chosen Robshaw myself)
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Tuilangi
13. O'Driscoll (if he is up to it, otherwise Roberts)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney (is he in the squad, can't remember, otherwise Halfpound)

I think the Lions will play for physical dominance, they will hit the rucks in numbers and try and prevent quick ball to the Aussies.

If Philips is the nine, I expect slower ruck ball on attack and Sexton will play for territory to play as much as possible in the Ozzie half.

The Lions will execute their line outs and scrums very well and shouldn't have a problem there, so pretty much if they can dominate the line outs they will consistently put pressure on the aussies by keeping them pegged back.

I expect them to hit the line hard with runners such as Tuilangi, North etc.

Not sure how much wide to wide they will play as I expect them to attempt softening up the midfield.

thebluesmancometh wrote:It's weird we are agreeing this morning, I'd have had Best, and Robshaw too (but not at 8) and you should be slated for daring to suggest Tuilagi and Roberts in midfield (even if you got them the wrong way around)

Cant remember everything

fa0019 wrote:Perhaps a little shy on the lineout front wouldn't you agree? Evans would be your only major talent. Higginbottom is a good backline jumper too... against that backrow it would be quite dangerous.

Lions need to do something about Hooper mind. In a straight off fight I would rather Tipuric played. Difficult decision.

Grey is a very good lineout operator too, infact he and Scotland went a full season without loss or something last year didn't they, and thats with Ford throwing in!

I agree Warbs v Higginbotham at the back is dangerous, but I was planning on Warbs and Tipuric to nullify Hooper, and think thats more important than 2 possible backline balls per game. Also Croft is on my bench, plus POC who could both come on and strengthen the set peice!

Biltong wrote:I know everyone believes Philips will be the half back, I just think Sexton is a dead certainty and would consider Murray.

But lets go with this for now.

1. Cian Healy (A must in my opinion if not for his mobility)
2. I don't know because I wanted Best there.
3. Cole
4. Parling
5. O' Connell
6. SOB
7. Warburton (He will be ther,e but I think it is a mistake)
8. Faletau (Would have chosen Robshaw myself)
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Tuilangi
13. O'Driscoll (if he is up to it, otherwise Roberts)
14. Bowe
15. Kearney (is he in the squad, can't remember, otherwise Halfpound)

I think the Lions will play for physical dominance, they will hit the rucks in numbers and try and prevent quick ball to the Aussies.

If Philips is the nine, I expect slower ruck ball on attack and Sexton will play for territory to play as much as possible in the Ozzie half.

The Lions will execute their line outs and scrums very well and shouldn't have a problem there, so pretty much if they can dominate the line outs they will consistently put pressure on the aussies by keeping them pegged back.

I expect them to hit the line hard with runners such as Tuilangi, North etc.

Not sure how much wide to wide they will play as I expect them to attempt softening up the midfield.

Yep, I think Bowe and North will be used narrower with Roberts and Tuilagi to keep the ball tighter, when going wide I'd expect Sexton to wrap around someone in midfield to use his distribution, with a dummy/strike runner outside him to fix the Aus rush!

I disagree with too much tactical kicking though, from deep will be infield and high allowing an agressive chase defence, 2 6N championships will highlight to Sexton and co how well this can work.

I suspect the kicking will depend on the dominance of the line out, why kick high for a fifty fifty ball if you can contest a line out?

Swap North for Cuthbert but I'm with Notch on this one. How many games before the 1st test? Its like saying ' My team for ***** 2014 6nations opener...

We're just having fun mate, don't you just love having a good conversation about rugby?

What's the point of the midweek games if we're picking the test side now?

Hopefully the other scrum halves have some storming games to persuade Gatts that Phillips isn't the way to go against Aus.

Biltong wrote:I suspect the kicking will depend on the dominance of the line out, why kick high for a fifty fifty ball if you can contest a line out?

Theres no 50/50 ball though, the kick will be long and high to Aus back 3, ideally on their 22 enticing them to run it back into a strong line of defence in Aus half, thats how Gatland likes it, isolate a player and have him run it back into numbers behind his own pack!

That will be Gatlands way of gaining posession /winning penalties to allow 1/2p a shot at goal or gain territory, I'd say even if our lineout was massively on top he'd continue with it.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Perhaps a little shy on the lineout front wouldn't you agree? Evans would be your only major talent. Higginbottom is a good backline jumper too... against that backrow it would be quite dangerous.

Lions need to do something about Hooper mind. In a straight off fight I would rather Tipuric played. Difficult decision.

Grey is a very good lineout operator too, infact he and Scotland went a full season without loss or something last year didn't they, and thats with Ford throwing in!

I agree Warbs v Higginbotham at the back is dangerous, but I was planning on Warbs and Tipuric to nullify Hooper, and think thats more important than 2 possible backline balls per game. Also Croft is on my bench, plus POC who could both come on and strengthen the set peice!

Always thought Hamilton was the better operator out of the 2. I love Grey but he's a little too romantic, too lord Byron... charging in and often losing possesion/going too far and getting turned over.

The Stormers are a similar side to the Lions, big upfront, liable to get turned over a lot due to backrow balance compared to AUS/NZ. We have used the tactic of taking forwards ball up in pairs, one guy literally attached to the carrier to make sure he doesn't instantly get turned over... makes things a little more predictable but at the same time retains a lot of ball. Someone like Grey could do with a tactic like this.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:What's the point of the midweek games if we're picking the test side now?

Hopefully the other scrum halves have some storming games to persuade Gatts that Phillips isn't the way to go against Aus.

So you agree Phillips is no.1 right now? I'd go as far to say as Healy, Hibbard, Phillips and Sexton are the massive favourites and almost dead certs at present!

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:What's the point of the midweek games if we're picking the test side now?

Hopefully the other scrum halves have some storming games to persuade Gatts that Phillips isn't the way to go against Aus.

It is a hypothetical scenario that creates debate on a slow Monday morning, GET BACK TO WORK.

Biltong wrote:We're just having fun mate, don't you just love having a good conversation about rugby?

I'm rugby'd out tbh Bilt.. Its an Ashes summer!

Breadvan wrote:

Biltong wrote:We're just having fun mate, don't you just love having a good conversation about rugby?

I'm rugby'd out tbh Bilt.. Its an Ashes summer!

Yeah well, SA isn't playing any test cricket till October.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:What's the point of the midweek games if we're picking the test side now?

Hopefully the other scrum halves have some storming games to persuade Gatts that Phillips isn't the way to go against Aus.

Would you base your team solely on the midweek games? It would be like choosing a Wales team to face NZ on the back of their last 3 matches against Tonga, Georgia and Japan.

Midweek games are very very dangerous... remember Shane Byrne, Lee Mears??? Those guys got the nod over performances vs. sub-standard dirt-tracker opposition and the Lions got destroyed in part because of it.

Biltong wrote:

Breadvan wrote:

Biltong wrote:We're just having fun mate, don't you just love having a good conversation about rugby?

I'm rugby'd out tbh Bilt.. Its an Ashes summer!

Yeah well, SA isn't playing any test cricket till October.

What are you taking about... their 2nd XI just beat NZ on the weekend?

fa0019 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Perhaps a little shy on the lineout front wouldn't you agree? Evans would be your only major talent. Higginbottom is a good backline jumper too... against that backrow it would be quite dangerous.

Lions need to do something about Hooper mind. In a straight off fight I would rather Tipuric played. Difficult decision.

Grey is a very good lineout operator too, infact he and Scotland went a full season without loss or something last year didn't they, and thats with Ford throwing in!

I agree Warbs v Higginbotham at the back is dangerous, but I was planning on Warbs and Tipuric to nullify Hooper, and think thats more important than 2 possible backline balls per game. Also Croft is on my bench, plus POC who could both come on and strengthen the set peice!

Always thought Hamilton was the better operator out of the 2. I love Grey but he's a little too romantic, too lord Byron... charging in and often losing possesion/going too far and getting turned over.

The Stormers are a similar side to the Lions, big upfront, liable to get turned over a lot due to backrow balance compared to AUS/NZ. We have used the tactic of taking forwards ball up in pairs, one guy literally attached to the carrier to make sure he doesn't instantly get turned over... makes things a little more predictable but at the same time retains a lot of ball. Someone like Grey could do with a tactic like this.

Finally!!! Someone who agree's with me on the unseen work of Hamilton, he is an excellent lineout option, good in the scrum and good at the breakdown, but he makes mistakes and doesn't get any real recognition IMHO, that said Grey is good too, and I know what you mean that he sometimes is too good for his own good, he beats a man and goes on and on with no support and loses the ball, but Gats prefers his attack slow, secure and in numbered pods, so I think his strengths of his charging around could be utilised outwide and his weaknesses minimized by his structed attack play.

How much influence will the midweek games really have on test selection?

Biltong wrote:How much influence will the midweek games really have on test selection?

According to the coaching set up and squad EVERYTHING! In reality I'd say it'd take something pretty special from the super teams to allow a lions player to perform to a standard to displace someone else.

Someone mentioned Mears sbove, and a very good example, looked excellent when the lions were winning by 30/40/50 points, then test 1 comes and BANG Vickery has nothing inside him and gives away a big lead in half an hour (really felt sorry for Vickery that day, well not that day but a few weeks later)

Ok.....The team will be 80% Welsh and will use bish bash, kick orientated , slow ball tactics which will result in a heavy loss. V2 will Then go into meltdown.

There I said it...








Only messin. It's gonna be great...

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:What's the point of the midweek games if we're picking the test side now?

Hopefully the other scrum halves have some storming games to persuade Gatts that Phillips isn't the way to go against Aus.

So you agree Phillips is no.1 right now? I'd go as far to say as Healy, Hibbard, Phillips and Sexton are the massive favourites and almost dead certs at present!

Yes, but only because Gatts is head coach and he will favour a bish-bosh approach that most likely won't work. He'll be too stubborn to change it until it's too late and the tour is lost.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:What's the point of the midweek games if we're picking the test side now?

Hopefully the other scrum halves have some storming games to persuade Gatts that Phillips isn't the way to go against Aus.

So you agree Phillips is no.1 right now? I'd go as far to say as Healy, Hibbard, Phillips and Sexton are the massive favourites and almost dead certs at present!

Yes, but only because Gatts is head coach and he will favour a bish-bosh approach that most likely won't work. He'll be too stubborn to change it until it's too late and the tour is lost.

Similar to Woodward? You see another 2005 shambles on the horizon mate?

Breadvan wrote:Ok.....The team will be 80% Welsh and will use bish bash, kick orientated , slow ball tactics which will result in a heavy loss. V2 will Then go into meltdown.

There I said it...








Only messin. It's gonna be great...

You little scamp. What I don't get though is the constant 'bish bash bosh' everyone keeps refering to, do Wales not score as many tries or have a good enough defence as anyone else in the NH? Do the wingers and FB not score enough and the pack do all the work? I wouldn't call Wales a 'bish bash bosh' team, but they are a slow and considered attacking side who use attack as their best defencive weapon IMHO

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Breadvan wrote:Ok.....The team will be 80% Welsh and will use bish bash, kick orientated , slow ball tactics which will result in a heavy loss. V2 will Then go into meltdown.

There I said it...








Only messin. It's gonna be great...

You little scamp. What I don't get though is the constant 'bish bash bosh' everyone keeps refering to, do Wales not score as many tries or have a good enough defence as anyone else in the NH? Do the wingers and FB not score enough and the pack do all the work? I wouldn't call Wales a 'bish bash bosh' team, but they are a slow and considered attacking side who use attack as their best defencive weapon IMHO

Sorry to contradict you there mate, but Wales is a bish bash bosh team.

Since the Giant Williams left, Wales runs through people, not much around them.

Ok this is the team I'd like to see rather than a prediction of what the team is likely to be (hence my ommision of the captain):

Healy
Hartley
Cole
Grey
POC
Croft
Tipuric
Faletau
Youngs
Sexton
Cuthbert
Roberts
BOD
Bowe
Halfpenny

Vunipola
Hibbard
Jones
Parling
Warburton
Murray
Farrell
Tuilagi

Biltong wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Breadvan wrote:Ok.....The team will be 80% Welsh and will use bish bash, kick orientated , slow ball tactics which will result in a heavy loss. V2 will Then go into meltdown.

There I said it...








Only messin. It's gonna be great...

You little scamp. What I don't get though is the constant 'bish bash bosh' everyone keeps refering to, do Wales not score as many tries or have a good enough defence as anyone else in the NH? Do the wingers and FB not score enough and the pack do all the work? I wouldn't call Wales a 'bish bash bosh' team, but they are a slow and considered attacking side who use attack as their best defencive weapon IMHO

Sorry to contradict you there mate, but Wales is a bish bash bosh team.

Since the Giant Williams left, Wales runs through people, not much around them.

Really? So 1/2p, Davies, and the lightest back row in the NH is a bish bash bosh team? If you check the tries Cuthbert scores he doesn't ever make contact with defenders, he is generally on the strike run into a gap or put into a bit of space where he goes clear, Cuthbert is in fact a physical lightweight.

So by 'bosh' team I assume you mean they use physically superior players to gain an advantage, such as Roberts, Phillips and North, no other team in world rugby would dare to use superior physical presence to gain an advantage.... (coming from a Saffar thats hilarious)

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Biltong wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Breadvan wrote:Ok.....The team will be 80% Welsh and will use bish bash, kick orientated , slow ball tactics which will result in a heavy loss. V2 will Then go into meltdown.

There I said it...








Only messin. It's gonna be great...

You little scamp. What I don't get though is the constant 'bish bash bosh' everyone keeps refering to, do Wales not score as many tries or have a good enough defence as anyone else in the NH? Do the wingers and FB not score enough and the pack do all the work? I wouldn't call Wales a 'bish bash bosh' team, but they are a slow and considered attacking side who use attack as their best defencive weapon IMHO

Sorry to contradict you there mate, but Wales is a bish bash bosh team.

Since the Giant Williams left, Wales runs through people, not much around them.

Really? So 1/2p, Davies, and the lightest back row in the NH is a bish bash bosh team? If you check the tries Cuthbert scores he doesn't ever make contact with defenders, he is generally on the strike run into a gap or put into a bit of space where he goes clear, Cuthbert is in fact a physical lightweight.

So by 'bosh' team I assume you mean they use physically superior players to gain an advantage, such as Roberts, Phillips and North, no other team in world rugby would dare to use superior physical presence to gain an advantage.... (coming from a Saffar thats hilarious)

Ok, let's go to the six nations, how did Wales beat England?

By playing wide and quick ruck ball?

No mate, they obliterated their forwards and used the space ONLY AFTER they soften the belly.

Don't look at the try that is scored where a player goes through untouched, look at how many runs Cuthbert and North gets and how many of them are in open space, and how many are running into traffic to break the line.

I think the side does have a bish bash feature about. Especially with the lack of exciting bolters eg Wade, Beck, 36. Maitland, Bowe, Hogg look more threatening in attack than 1/2p, North imo....The pace is with Croft and Tips at the moment!

Bilt, surely we can call that, earning the right to go wide?

I think Wales has a lot more to its armoury than bish, bash, bosh. But we do seem to revert to it as a first option, almost as if we believe we HAVE to do it before going wide. Seems the tactics, probably why Phillips has become a more important cog in the welsh play than any other.

A lot has been said about the welsh side, but in the last 3 years its got to a world cup semi-final, won a GS and then won the 6ns to retain their title.

Thats not bad for a team of bish, bash, bosh merchants who are mentally frail.

I digress....

I think the Lions will play in a similar way to Wales, I just hope they have the freedom, and desire to play more heads up rugby. They have the players and firepower in the squad to win the series 3 - 0, but equally so do Aus!! Such is the delicate balancing act for each coach(for differing reasons) over the next months.

Im excited, I loved the Lions in 09, I'm sure I'll love this. Im going with 2-1 to the Lions. Won in the last game, in a game that swings either way multiple times, with plenty of pantomime heroes and villains and Sir Johnny coming off the bench to drop a goal in the dying minutes.

Biltong wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Biltong wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Breadvan wrote:Ok.....The team will be 80% Welsh and will use bish bash, kick orientated , slow ball tactics which will result in a heavy loss. V2 will Then go into meltdown.

There I said it...








Only messin. It's gonna be great...

You little scamp. What I don't get though is the constant 'bish bash bosh' everyone keeps refering to, do Wales not score as many tries or have a good enough defence as anyone else in the NH? Do the wingers and FB not score enough and the pack do all the work? I wouldn't call Wales a 'bish bash bosh' team, but they are a slow and considered attacking side who use attack as their best defencive weapon IMHO

Sorry to contradict you there mate, but Wales is a bish bash bosh team.

Since the Giant Williams left, Wales runs through people, not much around them.

Really? So 1/2p, Davies, and the lightest back row in the NH is a bish bash bosh team? If you check the tries Cuthbert scores he doesn't ever make contact with defenders, he is generally on the strike run into a gap or put into a bit of space where he goes clear, Cuthbert is in fact a physical lightweight.

So by 'bosh' team I assume you mean they use physically superior players to gain an advantage, such as Roberts, Phillips and North, no other team in world rugby would dare to use superior physical presence to gain an advantage.... (coming from a Saffar thats hilarious)

Ok, let's go to the six nations, how did Wales beat England?

By playing wide and quick ruck ball?

No mate, they obliterated their forwards and used the space ONLY AFTER they soften the belly.

Don't look at the try that is scored where a player goes through untouched, look at how many runs Cuthbert and North gets and how many of them are in open space, and how many are running into traffic to break the line.

Really, the pack who gets on top is bosh?? OR the better pack? The SA pack is all about dominance, whereas the kiwi pack mixes dominance with guile. And most of North and Cuthberts runs are dummy, they take the ball into where gaps may be, because the gap closes and they are tackled doesn't mean they take contact purposely!

The team who only goes wide, later when the gaps are there, attacks slow and ties players in isn't a bosh team, it is a carefull and considered team! As I said any team who has superior physical presence is stupid not to use it.

Bosh is a considerably complimentary term though when considered, because it highlights a reason for success, so in that regard if Aus are calling the lions just a bosh team post tour it will have been a succesfull tour.

Comfort wrote:Bilt, surely we can call that, earning the right to go wide?

I think Wales has a lot more to its armoury than bish, bash, bosh. But we do seem to revert to it as a first option, almost as if we believe we HAVE to do it before going wide. Seems the tactics, probably why Phillips has become a more important cog in the welsh play than any other.

A lot has been said about the welsh side, but in the last 3 years its got to a world cup semi-final, won a GS and then won the 6ns to retain their title.

Thats not bad for a team of bish, bash, bosh merchants who are mentally frail.

I digress....

I think the Lions will play in a similar way to Wales, I just hope they have the freedom, and desire to play more heads up rugby. They have the players and firepower in the squad to win the series 3 - 0, but equally so do Aus!! Such is the delicate balancing act for each coach(for differing reasons) over the next months.

Im excited, I loved the Lions in 09, I'm sure I'll love this. Im going with 2-1 to the Lions. Won in the last game, in a game that swings either way multiple times, with plenty of pantomime heroes and villains and Sir Johnny coming off the bench to drop a goal in the dying minutes.

Comfort, absolutely, they do have more than bish bash bosh, no doubt, but it hasn't been very evident.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Biltong wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Biltong wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Breadvan wrote:Ok.....The team will be 80% Welsh and will use bish bash, kick orientated , slow ball tactics which will result in a heavy loss. V2 will Then go into meltdown.

There I said it...








Only messin. It's gonna be great...

You little scamp. What I don't get though is the constant 'bish bash bosh' everyone keeps refering to, do Wales not score as many tries or have a good enough defence as anyone else in the NH? Do the wingers and FB not score enough and the pack do all the work? I wouldn't call Wales a 'bish bash bosh' team, but they are a slow and considered attacking side who use attack as their best defencive weapon IMHO

Sorry to contradict you there mate, but Wales is a bish bash bosh team.

Since the Giant Williams left, Wales runs through people, not much around them.

Really? So 1/2p, Davies, and the lightest back row in the NH is a bish bash bosh team? If you check the tries Cuthbert scores he doesn't ever make contact with defenders, he is generally on the strike run into a gap or put into a bit of space where he goes clear, Cuthbert is in fact a physical lightweight.

So by 'bosh' team I assume you mean they use physically superior players to gain an advantage, such as Roberts, Phillips and North, no other team in world rugby would dare to use superior physical presence to gain an advantage.... (coming from a Saffar thats hilarious)

Ok, let's go to the six nations, how did Wales beat England?

By playing wide and quick ruck ball?

No mate, they obliterated their forwards and used the space ONLY AFTER they soften the belly.

Don't look at the try that is scored where a player goes through untouched, look at how many runs Cuthbert and North gets and how many of them are in open space, and how many are running into traffic to break the line.

Really, the pack who gets on top is bosh?? OR the better pack? The SA pack is all about dominance, whereas the kiwi pack mixes dominance with guile. And most of North and Cuthberts runs are dummy, they take the ball into where gaps may be, because the gap closes and they are tackled doesn't mean they take contact purposely!

The team who only goes wide, later when the gaps are there, attacks slow and ties players in isn't a bosh team, it is a carefull and considered team! As I said any team who has superior physical presence is stupid not to use it.

Bosh is a considerably complimentary term though when considered, because it highlights a reason for success, so in that regard if Aus are calling the lions just a bosh team post tour it will have been a succesfull tour.

Mate we know SA is all about bish bash bosh, we have zero finesse.

How is Cole being picked infornt of Adam Jones ? He's a bit of a penalty liability

Against SA or NZ it would be Jones hands down. Cole is no lightweight but he does offer more in the loose than Jones. The Lions with Jones won't destroy AUS but Cole won't be a liability in that region either.

I myself would choose Cole over Jones.... a lot like how Smith got the jersey over leonard in 97.

In essence you don't lose that much up front but gain a bit more in the loose.

Fair play, just wondered

fa0019 wrote:Against SA or NZ it would be Jones hands down. Cole is no lightweight but he does offer more in the loose than Jones. The Lions with Jones won't destroy AUS but Cole won't be a liability in that region either.

I myself would choose Cole over Jones.... a lot like how Smith got the jersey over leonard in 97.

In essence you don't lose that much up front but gain a bit more in the loose.

Probably agree with this, the pack has been selected for mobility and dynamism, and Cole is the more dynamic option by far, however if Gats decides to target the scrum and retain posession then Jones is the better option. Boils down to either starts i'm happy and the other is off the bench!

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Richard Hibbard (should have been best)
3. Adam Jones
4. Paul O'connell
5. Alyn Wyn Jones
6. Sean O'brien (should have been robshaw)
7. Sam
8. Heaslip

9. Mike Phillips
10. Johnny Sexton
11. George North (but must imrpove after recent form)
12. Jamie or manu (really can't decide betweent he 2)
13. Brian O'driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15.Halfpenny

Best 3 scrummagers in their position on tour and we must target the scrum against an inconsitent ausrtlain scrum. O' Connell is a specialist in the line out and withous sharpe their line out won't be as stable.
England and wales have really hthe same tactics as we both have a big 12 to do his job by drawing in players and getting it out wide which is what Gatland will do. But whether thats jamie or manu i'm not sure,

However the subs are so crucial in todays game. Just watch back at the heineken cup final. Really toulons subs one them the game becuase they were much better than clermonts. Taking of rougerie, parra and domingo were the biggest mistakes they made.

So a strong bench of:
16. Youngs, 17. Healey, 18. Cole, 19. Geoff Parling, 20. Toby Falateu, 21. Ben Youngs, 22. Owen Farell, 23. Stuart Hogg

That bench to come on after 50 -60 minutes will will games. So much dynamism on that bench who could run the australians untill they drop after a brutal 60 minutes. Likes of Cian, Youngs and toby could run them into the gorund (literally).
Apart form Ben and farrell didn't really have much of a choicet thats a strong bench.
No other 10 to cover than farrell. Should be the great one (johnny) and would much preffer danny care than youngs. Brings so much more around the fringes it amazes me how youngs i ahead of him for england.

Also Cole is so over rated by some people.
Yes he is a great player don't get me worng but up against adam he doesn't even come close.
How people can say adam is a liablity around the pitch is a joke. The man was one of the top tacklers in the six antions and only missed 1 tackle in the whole tournament. Yes he was 5 years ago a liablity but know he is at the top when it comes to tightheads
Also cole is young (especially for a prop) 25 i think and people are putting so much pressure on him (even though he doens't look young i mean he looks about 50). H ewill get better at scurmmaging but for now adam is miles ahead of Cole. Younjsut have to watch the six nations to see it.

I am expecting the first test too be mainly Welsh players to be honest.

I think that Gatland and co, will be hoping for a Win in the first test and then mix and match for the rest of the games.