Gulbis (or anyone surprising) for the title!

I'm bored.

Bored with the repetitive play, with the same boring names at the top and their largely media-friendly 'personalities'. Basically, the sport is boring me now. I'm even bored of Federer being at the top of the game after all this time (though he will always remain TMF of course).

Something new is needed, and where better to find it than in this prodigal prodigy; a weed smoking (allegedly) party animal with the shots and game to beat anyone on their day? He has a quarter that should hold no desperate fears for him, and a seeded semi-final opponent he knows he really should have some big advantages over.
After that, well a tough final but he has the size and power to upset Nadal (big power is his only chink on clay).

It would completely enliven the sport. Imagine the buzz, the inspiration to his peers? The sport would suddenly feel fresh again. You could say the same if Dimitrov, Janowitz or Raonic won, but I think Ernests would have even greater impact. Even Ernests would have to take himself seriously and knuckle down.

So come on Ernie, blast through a surely tired Monfils tomorrow and let's see something new.

Edit: Damn correction thing put apostrophes in his name.

hm, seriously..?

Let's not forget this article, a classic, not a Fognini-level classic, but more of a minor one

https://www.606v2.com/t34370-gulbis-to-win-us-open

I hear what you're saying. I just wish some mercurial talent would actually, and properly, break through. If you could put Goffin into a 6'2+ frame then you'd be looking at something good. Gulbis is great at playing the outsider throwing in the odd spanner but he's not a leader. Even if he won RG it would just be a champagne moment followed by 6 months of Latvian caviar partying and a hazy decline into obscurity. Dimitrov I'm still not convinced about as a true force at the top all the time. It's kind of the same old names all the time and Nadal, Murray and Djokovic aren't even that old, we could have another 4-5 years of them yet. The physical stakes are sadly so high now that no-one can break the quadropoly. Goffin in the 90s would have been great with his early ball taking but now he just looks puny compared to the top guys.

Wanting Gulbis to win is kind of like voting for the Monster Raving Loony Party, it gives a kick in the teeth to the main guys but you don't really believe they're capable of making a difference. Protest party, protest thread...?

It's a wish, not a prediction. However, his half is opening up and he has the tools.

You must feel the game needs something like this? Do you remember how it was when Boris won Wimbledon in 1985? The sheer excitement? The current game is stagnant, it needs a shot in the arm like this.

Could be a vote for the Loonies, but perhaps also a vote for UKIP, and that's no longer looking completely wasted.

Edit: Yes, it'd probably endorse his approach to his mind!

I do like the style of play he stands for though...all out attack. If that can be shown to work then we may see some people rubbing their chins in wonder at current approaches.

To be honest I think we're starting to see that more anyway...we're seeing more and more powerful players knocking out the big guys. Berdy and Haas beating Djokovic, Gulbis and Brands pushing Nadal really hard. Tennis is still evolving in front of our eyes into a more powerful flatter game. The problem is the guys have to be 6'4 and above to do it all the time. Then we'll bemoan the fine motor and movement skills of the guys 6'1 and below...it's all cyclical.

This will never happen in a month of Sundays although if it does I propose that you change your name to something like "bogbrush - Predictor King".

Did you know that since reaching the QF of the French Open in 2008 (lost to Djokovic), he hasn't reached the third round of any slam? In the last three French Opens he lost in the first round to Benneteau, Kavcic and Kukushkin.

In case anyone is wondering if I looked at wikipedia while researching this comment, no I did not my knowledge of tennis is just that good.

bogbrush wrote:You must feel the game needs something like this? Do you remember how it was when Boris won Wimbledon in 1985? The sheer excitement?.

Not exactly. I was never a Boris fan, far too crude in his shot making for my liking . However, I did learn to love him a bit more, when Stich arrived on the scene a player that makes Berdych look multi-layered

It's young Ernest's off court antics that are the most entertaining part of him, although it would be something different if he won

However, I believe we must get away from the 'familiarity breeds contempt' attitude - after all when Boris came along and along with Ivan, basically put Mac and Connors out to seed, one did ache for a player with just a little bit of subtlety

Each to their own, which is why the game is great

Henman Bill wrote:This will never happen in a month of Sundays although if it does I propose that you change your name to something like "bogbrush - Predictor King".

Have you looked here recently?

https://www.606v2.com/t42758-606v2-atp-picking-game-rankings#1969885

Yep he's been a serious underachiever.
Like all good boys it took his mother to threaten him until he got his act together!
The guy is talented, we always knew that, but his head is too engrained in basket-case mode now. It's one thing pulling off surprises, it's another meeting expectation.

BTW, completely disagree about Stich.

Jack Sock have more chance to win the title than Gulbis

What did his Mum do? Threaten to cut him off the money?

lydian wrote:I do like the style of play he stands for though...all out attack. If that can be shown to work then we may see some people rubbing their chins in wonder at current approaches.

To be honest I think we're starting to see that more anyway...we're seeing more and more powerful players knocking out the big guys. Berdy and Haas beating Djokovic, Gulbis and Brands pushing Nadal really hard. Tennis is still evolving in front of our eyes into a more powerful flatter game. The problem is the guys have to be 6'4 and above to do it all the time. Then we'll bemoan the fine motor and movement skills of the guys 6'1 and below...it's all cyclical.

I think we're clutching at straws here. An occasional beating for the Top 4 (and in fairness to Haas he's hardly a hard hitter - with the same subtle all round game as say Murray) often happens. Do these guys have the mental strength to do what Novak's done? - rush up to the door and find it's barely open for a few years and keep banging away until you get in. I think not

lydian wrote:BTW, completely disagree about Stich.

We won't start that argument again

Yep, she had the scissors poised over the apron strings.
Daddy was gonna cut off access to the 400ft yacht, helipad and midnight drop-ins by Olga Kurylenko.
He knuckled down after that.

Seriously, she wasn't going to fund him anymore because he was hardly winning matches and travelling around on ATP without winning is REALLY expensive and I suspect the Latvian LTA don't have a lot of cash swilling around to bank roll players like we do.

banbrotam wrote:

lydian wrote:I do like the style of play he stands for though...all out attack. If that can be shown to work then we may see some people rubbing their chins in wonder at current approaches.

To be honest I think we're starting to see that more anyway...we're seeing more and more powerful players knocking out the big guys. Berdy and Haas beating Djokovic, Gulbis and Brands pushing Nadal really hard. Tennis is still evolving in front of our eyes into a more powerful flatter game. The problem is the guys have to be 6'4 and above to do it all the time. Then we'll bemoan the fine motor and movement skills of the guys 6'1 and below...it's all cyclical.

I think we're clutching at straws here.

Hey? That's kind of what I've said

lydian wrote:Yep, she had the scissors poised over the apron strings.
Daddy was gonna cut off access to the 400ft yacht, helipad and midnight drop-ins by Olga Kurylenko.
He knuckled down after that.

Seriously, she wasn't going to fund him anymore because he was hardly winning matches and travelling around on ATP without winning is REALLY expensive and I suspect the Latvian LTA don't have a lot of cash swilling around to bank roll players like we do.

I like that picture in my head.

I hope she shows up at RG if he makes the 4th round and gets him right.

Back in 2008 he was written up as a prodigious talent. His mother pushed really hard for his talent to be nurtured. He was sent to Niki Pilic academy in Munich in his teens to develop, Latvian tennis scene was none existent. All was looking good in 2008/9 then he went off the rails.

For me he's basically another Goran Ivanisevic, another guy who was prodigiously talented but not strong enough up top to be a multislammer. That said he had a good career and a far better one than Gulbis so far. Perhaps Goran should coach him given he learnt how to tame his own beast...

Gulbis had a good 2008.
Good and bad 2010, beating feds in rome, reaching MS semi in rome just losing to rafa and qf in madrid, then did nada.

He will be 25 soon, not that young anymore. Come on you crazy kook!

bogbrush wrote:

Henman Bill wrote:This will never happen in a month of Sundays although if it does I propose that you change your name to something like "bogbrush - Predictor King".

Have you looked here recently?

https://www.606v2.com/t42758-606v2-atp-picking-game-rankings#1969885

No, I don't follow the picking game, but good point. Consider yourself Predictor King already. Although you say that this is a wish not a prediction I will be still be impressed if he wins it. But..he clearly won't.

Henman Bill wrote:Let's not forget this article, a classic, not a Fognini-level classic, but more of a minor one

https://www.606v2.com/t34370-gulbis-to-win-us-open

Nothing could match the classic and important work done on my now legendary Fognini thread. It is Homeric in its historic significance and long term impact on tennis scholarship. Please be careful in fognini comparisons. It is like saying every Italian two door is a Maserati, every blonde is Scarlett Johnson, every president is Abe Lincoln; it cheapens the power of the original.

Ah but you steal too much From Talatonian, whose thread that was! Who could have known what would start from such an innocent question? Dare we relive that experience, so fresh yet two years old.........?

https://www.606v2.com/t6328-how-will-the-end-of-djoko-s-streak-affect-his-play

I agree with your sentiments BB. I too am bored. Tennis is far too predictable in terms of winners of titles on the tour. Even the Haas rejuvenation has gotten stale purely because it makes a mockery of the current standard of young players trying to break through.

You feel for the younger generation coming through because they will have such big boots to fill and Dimitrov probably more than anyone will feel the pressure more given the vast nature of his talent. The issue with the talent coming through at the moment is that it offers nothing different to previous generations. You had Laver and then came Borg and Connors. After you had McEnroe, Wilander, Becker, Edberg and Lendl. Then came Sampras and Agassi, then came Federer and Nadal and now we have Djokovic. The youngsters breaking trying to break through are not offering anything different or unique. I think the only thing right now that could separate the emerging talent would be a relentless aggressive player that goes for the most ridiculous shots on every ball. I fear people will want more Soderling 2009, Kraijcek 1996, Federer 2001, McEnroe 1981, Del Potro 2009 performances every match by some ridiculously talented youngster because consistency like that has never been truly witnessed. The game really can only go backwards.

Soderling, Kraijcek and Del Potro in the same 'jaw dropping performance' league as Mac and Fed???

As any game or art gets older, isn't it always in danger of repetition? I think the people do the doom and gloom too much

I maintain, we rarely appreciate what we've got until it's gone - I remember feeling exactly the same around 1986 and then for a few years in the 90's. But now I look on those players and that play with a greater degree of fondness

I think you downplay the quality of Soderlings or Kraijceks performance on the day against players deemed the greatest on those surfaces. Can you actually identify a performance better than Soderlings on the RG Clay? That was some seriously scary hitting and I have not since or before seen anyone paint the tramlines like he did that day. Kraijcek hit the biggest hitter Grass has seen off the court. Another amazing one off performance. Just because they achieved less in the game doesn't make their performances in those matches lesser in quality.

Dont shoot the messenger !!!!

But according to the commentators yesterday this is the young gun we should be looking at...he came through on a w.c. and won yesterday.. I know nothing about him other than he is supposed to be the next best thing to French Bread

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Po/L/Lucas-Pouille.aspx

LK
you could almost put Rosol's win over Rafa in the same league - clearly in his case it was just his day of days rather than him streaking through a whole tournament as Kraijcek or Del Potro did, but was one of the finest displays of flat power-hitting I can recall.

I guess the drawback is that there simply isn't the margin for error in playing so flat and hard, so it's only the rare days that the timing is spot on that you can beat the top guys playing that way.

That's the thing DH 'almost'

Soderling's and Kraijcek's performance especially against Nadal and Sampras were ones of high risk and reward play which came off on the day. That is the type of play I think many viewers want to see.

Not sure about that DH re: Rosol.

Krajicek and Soderling were both established players who we knew could play like that if it all came together on the day. With Rosol he came from nowhere and just red-lined everything with nothing to lose. It all just happened to go in on the day. It was a little more measured and a bit less unexpected from the other 2 - after all Soderling had taken Nadal to 5 sets before, and beat him the next match after RG at WTF. Krajicek was 6-4 H2H on Sampras, inc. 3 straights win after that Wimb96 win. No-one expects Rosol to beat Nadal again.

The thing about attacking tennis is that it can bring out the best in the player on the opposing net. Look at Nadal and Djokovic. They can play passive, but once someone ups the ante, they do too. The Brands match was testament of that. Nadal had that 2nd gear as does Djokovic and is about consistency. Federer becomes even more aggressive if his opponent goes for their shots.

I would love to see someone with the consistency to go flat out, but sadly the game now incorporates more safety than anything else.

Slower courts, strings, fitness == attrition tennis. ;-)

Quite LK. I've said before that Nadal was much more aggressive when he came out in 2003/4. I urge anyone to rewatch his Miami 04 match with Federer on YouTube and not be surprised by how aggressive he used to be. Sure he's a great retriever because he's such a good athlete but we're talking about a guy with arguably the best FH in history, if he wanted to he could wallop the ball into the corners every shot - and to be frank I wish he would sometimes. He's become too passive and safe since 2010, too risk averse.

I like to see them all become more aggressive. To be honest I think they will as I detect the game is becoming more aggressive again. I loved watching brittle Goffin play yesterday, he was aggressive from near the baseline taking balls really early. The power he generates from such a small frame is amazing. Viva la aggression!

Del Potro is fantastic to watch for aggression as is Gasquet and Tsonga. What you find is that retrieval is the most favourable and effective play in today's game and I don't doubt that they can't play aggressive tennis. It might well yield more errors, but hell it would give us some superb winners!

Djokovic v Wawrinka AO was awesome for the shot making, like Brands v Nadal and Dimitrov v Djokovic/Nadal. I think that is the way for the emerging players. Go all out aggressive

LK

Agree that the up and comers should go for all-out aggression - they aren't going to out-grind and out-retrieve Djokovic or Nadal (who have really taken that game plan to absurd levels of effectiveness), so they might as well go for broke either with flat and early hitting or with touch and volley play (to move Djoko and Nadal away from their comfort zones). It probably won't work, but that's a step up from the definitely won't work of trying to out-rally them from the baseline.

Just a small change to the strings would do it. Other sports control the technology, tennis old easily follow. Trouble is that the rulers are the players and they have only self interest to push.

Balls BB!

We need smaller balls too

I hope tennis finds the balls (no pun) to follow golf and forbid any technology that massively favours the players.

First set to Ernie.

Indeed LK, just bring in some tech rules.

1, No racquet above 98 sqin. or 25mm beam
2, String tension below 50lbs
3, No 100% poly strung racquets (ban use of silicone spray)
4, ITF size 2 balls max.

This would change the game overnight. Infact change the first 3 and keep the balls the same, that would be enough. I don't see what's wrong with setting tech limits as the guys become ever stronger and fitter.

Its pity 2 dark horse yet for horse of the tournament are pitted in a battle early that 1 have to bow out, I still fancy Monfills to win but would love a good deep run by Gulbis, he is the only guy who can take the Ferrer express down in his quarter, that would a great battle.

Its now 1 set all.
Will Monfils recent run of tennis and his long first match here catch up with him in the 4th though...this is his 3rd week on the run, winning a challenger and Nice last week.
He's going to run out of steam I reckon...

lydian wrote:Indeed LK, just bring in some tech rules.

1, No racquet above 98 sqin. or 25mm beam
2, String tension below 50lbs
3, No 100% poly strung racquets (ban use of silicone spray)
4, ITF size 2 balls max.

This would change the game overnight. Infact change the first 3 and keep the balls the same, that would be enough. I don't see what's wrong with setting tech limits as the guys become ever stronger and fitter.

It addresses a problem that doesn't exist.

Look at these names in the current top ten: Federer, Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga, Gasquet, Wawrinka.

None of them in any way grinders or retrievers. A match between those names does not produce marathon rallies.

What the perceived "problem" is, is that the current two or three dominant players are very good at playing defence. And that isn't to some people's taste.

But I see nobody in the younger generation playing in a similar way to these guys, so, like every style in tennis, the cycle will eventually come to an end.

I like Gulbis now. He's had enough crap from the French crowd.

Hmmm. Not looking good.


Sock for the title?

Gulbis is throwing this game away. Too many UEs that kept Monfils in the game when he was dominating and playing rather well.

Yes!!!!!!!


Mega power.

Can't see Monfils winning in 5.

I was about to write Gulbis' obituary but he breaks back for 4-5!

Goodness knows how. What a game!! Monfils did demonstrate he was as comfy at the net as Simon so Gulbis needs to look at that and try and make Monfils volley more.

HM Murdoch wrote:It addresses a problem that doesn't exist.

Look at these names in the current top ten: Federer, Berdych, Del Potro, Tsonga, Gasquet, Wawrinka.

None of them in any way grinders or retrievers. A match between those names does not produce marathon rallies.

What the perceived "problem" is, is that the current two or three dominant players are very good at playing defence. And that isn't to some people's taste.

But I see nobody in the younger generation playing in a similar way to these guys, so, like every style in tennis, the cycle will eventually come to an end.

That's not correct.
The problem is slowed conditions due to dumbed down surfaces and balls - leading to longer ralleys and young players unable to break through due to conditioning vs skill misbalance.
This isnt about marathon ralleys but the game as a whole and its future, not its present.
Let me ask this - for a skill based sport how many "driving aids" do we want to give the players?
Why not just allow elasticated strings and 3 feet wide racquets that weight 300g for ridiculous power? Where does it end?

HM Murdoch wrote:the cycle will eventually come to an end.

...and I don't want it back.