My lions 15 after game 3

by littlejohn Sat 08 Jun 2013, 9:24 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ok I would argue even Gatland has not fully worked out the starting 15 for the first test so I'm just giving my view on what positions feel more certain after the first 3 games:

1. Vunipola now a cert and playing very well too - he's surpised me
2. Still wide open with not much to call between all 3 - cant call this one!!!
3. Jones a cert
4 Gray - looking very strong now
5. POC - together with Grey will form a formidable partnership
6. Wide open - Croft, Lydiate, Obrien all still in the mix - i'd prob give to croft to get lineout dominence and to have a third winger boxing

7 Warburton - gatland cannot drop him even though tipuric and o'brien are still in better form
8. Heaslip - falatau did not do enough imo against reds
9. Phillips - with youngs on bench to offer something different
10. sexton. no debate.
11. North
12. Still open - tuiliagi my preference
13. BOD - his experience and form are essential to lions success
14 Maitland - ok gatland is more likely to go for cuthbert but maitland offers more and cuthbert hasnt been great.
15. Halfpenny.

So i have 3/4 wide open positions but of course these are my views only. Who do people think will get 2, 6 and 12 spots?

by irnbrew Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:00 pm

I don,t want to cause another Lydiate debate as it has been gone through enogh you either rate him or not But if your top tackler and hit most rucks at the break down Lydiate is the one who has caused the break down so is at the bottom of it yes it would be nice if he carried more but then again it would be nice if other back rows did more tackling and hitting rucke instead of standing out looking for the glory ball to go on a run

by Cyril Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:13 pm

sirBiggles wrote:Really important to put a test XV together who pull together and play for each other...

So my test XV would be...

1. Paul James (call-up)
2. Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Ian Evans
6. Warburton
7. Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau

9. M Phillips
10. Dan Biggar (call-up)
11. North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. J Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

Would also call up Shaun Edwards to replace Farrell senior as defense coach.... not sure I would go as far a getting McBride there though...

... ok... BYE...

Come on Biggsy, we've already seen how that lot get on against the Aussies. It's time to give someone else a go.

by sirBiggles Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:22 pm

by Guest Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:39 pm

As good as our backrow options are I dont see how we can leave out a player of Tipurics quality from the starting lineup.

by Comfort Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:41 pm

1. M Vunipola (been hugely impressed with him in all aspects)
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. POC
5. Gray
*6. Warburton/Croft/SOB
7. Tipuric
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. BOD?
14. Maitland
15. Halfpenny

16. Grant
17. Best
18. Cole
19. Evans
*20. Warburton/Croft/SOB
21. Youngs
22. Farrell
23. Hogg

1 would have been Healy
14 would have been bowe

* the blindside position.

I genuinely cant call it, Warburton is captain, so Gatland probably has to play him. Croft has genuine pace and is an excellant lineout option, he's very mobile but perhaps doesnt get 'stuck in' like the other 2 options. SOB has been excellant and I think he'll be considered at blindside or as a bench option to cover the back row and add impetus going forward.

Tipuric HAS to start at 7 for me because hes getting to every breakdown and cleaning up potential messes, slowing down ball and hes constantly got his head up scanning like I want an openside to do.

by Comfort Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:47 pm

IronMike wrote:As good as our backrow options are I dont see how we can leave out a player of Tipurics quality from the starting lineup.

This!

by beshocked Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:54 pm

Gatland has made an error by picking Warburton as captain. It means he is basically forced to pick him irrelevant of form.

Sadly I think the backrow will be 6.Lydiate, 7.Warburton and 8. Faletau.

by Guest Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:59 pm

beshocked wrote:Gatland has made an error by picking Warburton as captain. It means he is basically forced to pick him irrelevant of form.

Sadly I think the backrow will be 6.Lydiate, 7.Warburton and 8. Faletau.

Which isn't really a terrible backrow, perhaps not the best we can have, but they wont be smashed.

by **rodders** Mon 10 Jun 2013, 3:03 pm

beshocked wrote:Gatland has made an error by picking Warburton as captain. It means he is basically forced to pick him irrelevant of form.

I concur.

O'Brien, Tipuric, Croft and Heaslip are all in much better form.

by Guest Mon 10 Jun 2013, 3:09 pm

I might revise my backline, I've not been hugely impressed with Maitland so I would go with a back 3 of:

15. Hogg
14. Halfpenny
11. North

by beshocked Mon 10 Jun 2013, 3:10 pm

Ironmike I agree it's not terrible but it could be so much better.

It would add to the problems if Phillips starts too. Quick ball is important.

by Comfort Mon 10 Jun 2013, 3:12 pm

rodders wrote:
beshocked wrote:Gatland has made an error by picking Warburton as captain. It means he is basically forced to pick him irrelevant of form.

I concur.

O'Brien, Tipuric, Croft and Heaslip are all in much better form.

Concurred by a welshman.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 10 Jun 2013, 3:46 pm

beshocked wrote:Gatland has made an error by picking Warburton as captain. It means he is basically forced to pick him irrelevant of form.

Sadly I think the backrow will be 6.Lydiate, 7.Warburton and 8. Faletau.

Whoever he had made captain would have been an error by that measure. There were very few players who were both absolute certainties AND captaincy material. He has only made an error if he selects him for captain and if his form is poor.

That back row is a defensively tight one. Not going to set any hearts a flutter with attacking potential, but the flip side is they could really nullify any Aussie attacking threat. Swings and roundabouts.

by offload Mon 10 Jun 2013, 3:52 pm

I told myself I wouldn't do this before the end of the warm ups - no will power....

1. Vunipola
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Gray
5, POC
6. O'Brien
7. Tipuric
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. BOD
14. Maitland
15. Halfpenny

16. Corbisiero
17. Youngs
18. Cole
19. AWJ
20. Croft
21. Farrell
22. Youngs
23. Tuilagi

That's my team today. Of course Gatland will play Warburton.

by stnick88 Mon 10 Jun 2013, 3:56 pm

1 Vunipola
2 Hibbard
3 Jones
4 Gray
5 O'Connell
6 O'Brien
7 Tipuric
8 Heaslip
9 Phillips
10 Sexton
11 North
12 Roberts
13 O'Driscoll
14 Cuthbert
15 Halfpenny

16 Corbisiero
17 Youngs
18 Cole
19 Parling
20 Croft
21 Youngs
22 Farrell
23 Tuilagi

by maestegmafia Mon 10 Jun 2013, 11:21 pm

Warburton is getting a lot of flak, first game back, he had a try disallowed and won plenty of turnover ball and penalties. Didnt think SOB looked much better against far weaker opposition on his comeback.

That aside I think Gatland will pick Warburton at blindside with Tipyric openside. It is the best combo we have. Heaslip at eight and SOB on bench.

by flyhalffactory Mon 10 Jun 2013, 11:46 pm

1. Grant
2. Youngs
3. Jones
4. Gray
5, POC
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Davies
13. BOD
14. Maitland
15. Halfpenny

16. Vunipola
17. Hibbard
18. Cole
19. AWJ
20. Croft
21. Hogg
22. Youngs
23. Tuilagi

by maestegmafia Mon 10 Jun 2013, 11:52 pm

Good looking team there mate

Some blwdi tough calls all over the pitch still.

North and Sexton being the only players inked in. BOD, Halfpenny, Paul O'Connell, and Adam Jones are certainly firmly penciled in the rest are all playing for places...!

Very exciting

by dragonbreath Tue 11 Jun 2013, 1:12 am

The only thing we have learned is that there has not been enough time for those unfamiliar with the patterns of the "Gatland Way" to learn them well enough to be risked in the first test. Gats will pick tried and tested combinations because there has simply not been enough time to do anything else.

1. Vunipola - Gats is a loyal guy and Mako has done pretty much everything asked of him. He may struggle at test level, time will tell, but he has earned his chance
2. Hibbard - Best scrummager, and huge physicality will deliver what Gats wants
3. Adam - No explanation needed

4. AWJ - Experienced and output is a known quantity
5. POC - Been there done it, got the T-Shirt

6. SOB - Offers more variety than Lydiate and Croft and combines some of their qualities in one package
7. SW - Frankly its a bit of a gamble, but the bet was made before they got on the plane
8. Heaslip - More experienced at this level and just a slightly better player

9. Mikey - So important to the successful execution of the Gat game plan. He runs the game for Wales, decides which way the play goes, makes decision about what type of play is required, when to take it up the guts, when to go wide. Organises the runners, tells them where he wants them. Many who criticise him don't really understand that his perceived lack of speed at the base is more often than not because he is organising the attack. He is not a mere link between forwards and backs, (a type of 9 some seem to favour, perhaps they should try watching 7s) 10s play to Mikes tune, not vice versa.
10. Sexton - Lets all hope he is fit, or Gats and the Lions go up in smoke

11. North - The best available left wing who seems to be finding some form

12. Roberts - Established combination with
13. BOD - Still a top man

14. Cuthbert - No Tommy so next best. Think he was unfairly criticised at the weekend. He was clearly blocked when attempting to chase Farrells kick which led to the first try, and is still the most instinctive finisher in the squad.

15. Halfpenny - The best kicker in the squad by a country mile. You cannot afford to leave points on the tee in a test match. Hogg might well score a 5 point try. Halfpenny will get you 15-20, in a side likely to generate a lot of go forward ball and set piece pens

by flyhalffactory Tue 11 Jun 2013, 2:02 am

Dragonbreath

Few things

Hibbard played poorly so far, and IMHO his technique is flawed and hence he is not as strong a player as he is made out to be. I think Ken Owens outplayed him generally last season.

You cant say Gatland will select because of a "known quantity" for goodness sake!!, otherwise he may as well select everyone from the Welsh squad as he knows what they can do.

He will know what Gray or Parling can do as much as AWJ by now

I believe Gatland will select a 12 Roberts 13 BOD combo; not because they are well established as it certainly doesn't mean it is the best combo but in my mind Mr G thinks it is, I don't think it is the best combo though. One thing Roberts has played really well so far (brave and intelligent) but the opposition has been pretty poor I will want to see Roberts/BOD against quality opposition before making my mind that they have the effectiveness of four years ago. I believe Davies is a better defender and has the ability to score more tries than Roberts.

Cuthbert was pretty dire last time out and like our own Tim Visser is a big lump and has an eye for the line but he is pants at defending. Maitland had a poor game but most certainly not as poor a defender as Cuthbert

Hogg can score tries and can kick conversions/pens with equal ease. Hoggs' accuracy for Glasgow when he played 10 the last few games (when Gatland mentioned that he will consider him to be a utility player (FB/Centre/FH) was as good as anyone in the Rabbo. So to say that Gatland will select Halfpenny purely for his kicking has already flown out of the window. Gatland has already stated that he didn't know who to choose between Sexton and 1/2p so left it to Neil Jenkins. Then the next game Farrell has a faultless kicking game.......... now what if Hogg kicks 12 out of 12 next game?. Would you then select Hogg at FB or leave 1/2p because Sexton on his day has a near perfect kicking game.

Last thing we as a squad have looked vulnerable against raw acceleration and speed and I believe Gatland must select not just big players who can build up a bit of speed over 30 yards but also players who have pure acceleration and great balance, the likes of Youngs x 2 , Grant, Gray, Davies, Maitland and Hogg will all have to be considered if we get taken apart by speed again.

by nathan Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:11 am

dragonbreath wrote:

9. Mikey - So important to the successful execution of the Gat game plan. He runs the game for Wales, decides which way the play goes, makes decision about what type of play is required, when to take it up the guts, when to go wide. Organises the runners, tells them where he wants them. Many who criticise him don't really understand that his perceived lack of speed at the base is more often than not because he is organising the attack. He is not a mere link between forwards and backs, (a type of 9 some seem to favour, perhaps they should try watching 7s) 10s play to Mikes tune, not vice versa.

I agree with most of your decisions other than Phillips, it shouldn't be Phillips executing the game plan it should be the 10 (sexton). Against the weaker opponents Phillips will be fine bursting through tackles near the ruck but when those doors close and we need a different point of attack and fast ball i believe he suffers.

by offload Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:23 am

nathan wrote:I agree with most of your decisions other than Phillips, it shouldn't be Phillips executing the game plan it should be the 10 (sexton). Against the weaker opponents Phillips will be fine bursting through tackles near the ruck but when those doors close and we need a different point of attack and fast ball i believe he suffers.

I agree and although I have seen exceptional performances from Phillips I've also seen some shocking decisions and slowness when he's under pressure and on the back foot. I still think he's the best starting option and Gatland will pick him, but I'll be very happy to see Youngs come off the bench to offer something different.

by maestegmafia Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:38 am

We are lucky to have the options at Scrumhalf. I agree Youngs is playing really well and whether he or Phillips start it makes little difference. We have two top class players.

Reading other posts above I am surprised that no one is selecting Warburton as a blindside and tips as open???

It worked really well for Wales on a few occasions ....!

by dragonbreath Wed 12 Jun 2013, 12:38 am

flyhalffactory wrote:Dragonbreath

Few things

Hibbard played poorly so far, and IMHO his technique is flawed and hence he is not as strong a player as he is made out to be. I think Ken Owens outplayed him generally last season.

You cant say Gatland will select because of a "known quantity" for goodness sake!!, otherwise he may as well select everyone from the Welsh squad as he knows what they can do.

He will know what Gray or Parling can do as much as AWJ by now

I believe Gatland will select a 12 Roberts 13 BOD combo; not because they are well established as it certainly doesn't mean it is the best combo but in my mind Mr G thinks it is, I don't think it is the best combo though. One thing Roberts has played really well so far (brave and intelligent) but the opposition has been pretty poor I will want to see Roberts/BOD against quality opposition before making my mind that they have the effectiveness of four years ago. I believe Davies is a better defender and has the ability to score more tries than Roberts.

Cuthbert was pretty dire last time out and like our own Tim Visser is a big lump and has an eye for the line but he is pants at defending. Maitland had a poor game but most certainly not as poor a defender as Cuthbert

Hogg can score tries and can kick conversions/pens with equal ease. Hoggs' accuracy for Glasgow when he played 10 the last few games (when Gatland mentioned that he will consider him to be a utility player (FB/Centre/FH) was as good as anyone in the Rabbo. So to say that Gatland will select Halfpenny purely for his kicking has already flown out of the window. Gatland has already stated that he didn't know who to choose between Sexton and 1/2p so left it to Neil Jenkins. Then the next game Farrell has a faultless kicking game.......... now what if Hogg kicks 12 out of 12 next game?. Would you then select Hogg at FB or leave 1/2p because Sexton on his day has a near perfect kicking game.

Last thing we as a squad have looked vulnerable against raw acceleration and speed and I believe Gatland must select not just big players who can build up a bit of speed over 30 yards but also players who have pure acceleration and great balance, the likes of Youngs x 2 , Grant, Gray, Davies, Maitland and Hogg will all have to be considered if we get taken apart by speed again.

I feel yur pain man and I hear you I do, but I bet I'm right

by glamorganalun Wed 12 Jun 2013, 8:55 am

maestegmafia wrote:We are lucky to have the options at Scrumhalf. I agree Youngs is playing really well and whether he or Phillips start it makes little difference. We have two top class players.

Reading other posts above I am surprised that no one is selecting Warburton as a blindside and tips as open???

It worked really well for Wales on a few occasions ....!

True but the Lions are not playing a team with three 6.s in their back row and a beaten front 5.

by **rodders** Wed 12 Jun 2013, 11:49 am

Anyone else see the Lions losing the series?

by lostinwales Wed 12 Jun 2013, 11:51 am

rodders wrote:Anyone else see the Lions losing the series?

I can see them loosing a game and having a massive rethink on the match day squad

by GunsGerms Wed 12 Jun 2013, 11:51 am

rodders wrote:Anyone else see the Lions losing the series?

Nope

by RubyGuby Wed 12 Jun 2013, 12:22 pm

I can see Gatland making some "left field" choices and play Adam Jones, Hibbard and Cole in the front row with Tuilangi and North on the wings. The Aus wont expect that and it is straight out of Gatlands mind set thumbsup

by maestegmafia Sat 15 Jun 2013, 1:25 pm

WEll some players really proved their worth today

Vuni
Hibbard
Adam
AWJ
POC
Warbs
Tips
Jamie
Phillips
Sexton
Zebo
Davies
BOD
North
Halfpenny

Youngs
Corbs
Cole
Gray
SOB
Youngs/Murray
Hogg
Roberts

by Breadvan Sat 15 Jun 2013, 1:29 pm

rodders wrote:Anyone else see the Lions losing the series

Yeh...

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