Take a bow Ben Morgan

Admittedly that was a pretty poor Argentinian side, but Morgan's performance was nothing short of spectacular. His power play was impressive, as was his control at the base, he had the vision and pass of Carlos Spencer and was like a gazelle around the park. A remarkable performance. Well done. England berth secure for a long time to come.

If he hadn't been injured for 6 Nations then pretty sure he would have been in Oz now, no other pwer 8 like him in the B&I teams at the moment.

shows how much he was missed in the 6Ns & consequently Lancaster picked an unbalanced back row.
Back to his best yesterday though

Was also impressed with the way he's got himself in shape physically and his fitness level's moved up several notches. Credit to him for putting in the hard hours. Having Billy V on his heels is great for both of them and for England. There's some real depth developing all ove the park.

I still dont think hes an 80 minute player but he'll do more than his fair share in the time hes on the pitch.

He managed 70 plus minutes yesterday without looking knackered, so I think he can last the eighty. Might be different in against better opposition though.

For Morgan it is a matter of being in game shape. If he continues to improve fitness no reason he can't last a full match.

He just seems to have real composure, never panics, great hands, picks out good options and is almost impossible to stop once he gets going.

Great player to watch

Amazing what a top class No 8 can do in the No 8 position!

Note to SL: Play an 8 at 8, and play wingers on the wing. You could have a grandslam under your belt if you' followed that rule earlier.

Don't profess to know what goes on in coach's heads but I'm really hoping this mini tour proves to Lancaster that there's enough talent out there to play people where they are best suited. Have never believed that some some players are just too good to leave out and forcing them into roles less suited to them just to accommodate them. There's depth all around the park if they choose to use it.

Both Morgan and Vunipola are going to be huge for England. Both have the potential to be world class number 8s. What a fantastic position for England to be in. Now if you would kindly give Ireland any other potential 8s you have coming through, that would be much appreciated.

I'm going to be honest though, England are starting to scare me with not just the crazy depth they have, but the quality of players they are producing now in each position. If Lancaster plays his cards right (i.e. picking players in the positions they are supposed to play in) then he has the opportunity to produce a world cup winning team, and I genuinely believe that. He has to be both ruthless and daring in his selections though. The likes of Wade and Twelvetrees must be on that England side.

Don't know why, but when ever a Celt compliments England so much I wonder is it sarcasm or some devious plan?

Besides, Ireland isn't exactly short of class back row players.

I been saying Ben Morgan is the best 8 in the world for some time. Welcome onto the bandwagon gentlemen...apologies Acepted.

Agreed. There has been WAY too much picking people out of position for some time now, usually in the back row or on the wing . It is something that REALLY annoys me, especially when you consider what strength in depth Lancaster has at his fingertips.

But if you look at the squad as a whole there are a LOT of positions where there is more than enough back up now & SL shouldn't be afraid to call up the next in line when there's an injury. Let's see who there is:

1. Vunipola, Corbisiero, Marler
2. Youngs, Webber (Paice a useful but not top-class backup - I'm not included the penalty/card machine Hartley who is a 1st class plank)
3. Cole, Wilson (Thomas on the way)
4. Launchbury, Lawes
5. Parling, Attwood, Palmer
6. Wood, Croft, Haskell
7. Robshaw, Kvesic
8. Morgan, Vunipola
9. Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth, Dickson (Simpson at a push)
10. Farrell, Flood, Burns
11. May, Yarde, Strettle
12. Twelvetrees, Barritt, Eastmond
13. Tulagi, Joseph
14. Wade, Ashton
15. Brown, Foden, Goode

There's a lot to be happy about

Mr Bounce wrote:

Let's see who there is:

1. Vunipola, Corbisiero, Marler
2. Youngs, Webber (Paice a useful but not top-class backup - I'm not included the penalty/card machine Hartley who is a 1st class plank)
3. Cole, Wilson (Thomas on the way)
4. Launchbury, Lawes
5. Parling, Attwood, Palmer
6. Wood, Croft, Haskell
7. Robshaw, Kvesic
8. Morgan, Vunipola
9. Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth, Dickson (Simpson at a push)
10. Farrell, Flood, Burns
11. May, Yarde, Strettle
12. Twelvetrees, Barritt, Eastmond
13. Tulagi, Joseph
14. Wade, Ashton
15. Brown, Foden, Goode

There's a lot to be happy about

Apologies for jumping on your post guys but thought I would like to see who we have

James, Jenkins Gill
Hibbard Owens
A Jones Mitchell Andrews
AWJ Charteris
Evans Davies Coombs
Lydiate Warburton Shingler
Faletau R Jones
Warburton Tipuric Navidi

Phillips ????
Biggar Priestland Hook
Davies Beck
Roberts Williams
North Li Williams
Cuthbert Prydie (possibly)
Halfpenny Byrne

Not even enough strength in depth to get 15 Joneses out!

Alex_Germany wrote:Not even enough strength in depth to get 15 Joneses out!

I know what is the world coming to, can't even back it up with some Williams' or Evans' thrown in there.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Both Morgan and Vunipola are going to be huge for England. Both have the potential to be world class number 8s. What a fantastic position for England to be in. Now if you would kindly give Ireland any other potential 8s you have coming through, that would be much appreciated.

I'm going to be honest though, England are starting to scare me with not just the crazy depth they have, but the quality of players they are producing now in each position. If Lancaster plays his cards right (i.e. picking players in the positions they are supposed to play in) then he has the opportunity to produce a world cup winning team, and I genuinely believe that. He has to be both ruthless and daring in his selections though. The likes of Wade and Twelvetrees must be on that England side.

Spot on Rory. No good having the players on form as long as he picks them in their proper positions. Our 6 nations downfall was SL not doing this...

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Alex_Germany wrote:Not even enough strength in depth to get 15 Joneses out!

I know what is the world coming to, can't even back it up with some Williams' or Evans' thrown in there.

At least England can get twelve trees in a team.

Yes but... both Morgan and Vunipola were injured. The most pragmatic thing to have done would have been to call up Easter. As for the wing/fullback situation that was what could best be described as a compromise - and one that suited nobody but the alternatives were not great given Burns being injured and Flood not being in the best of forms - therefore the need to play Goode etc etc

Onwards and upwards. Some more dead wood to shift - examples being Strettle whowas great when he first appeared, just injury prone. Hes not as good as the alternatives. Barritt will be around the EPS but he shouldnt be 1st choice anymore - and I think(and in the case of Tait - old but regenerated) talent coming through

Breadvan wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Both Morgan and Vunipola are going to be huge for England. Both have the potential to be world class number 8s. What a fantastic position for England to be in. Now if you would kindly give Ireland any other potential 8s you have coming through, that would be much appreciated.

I'm going to be honest though, England are starting to scare me with not just the crazy depth they have, but the quality of players they are producing now in each position. If Lancaster plays his cards right (i.e. picking players in the positions they are supposed to play in) then he has the opportunity to produce a world cup winning team, and I genuinely believe that. He has to be both ruthless and daring in his selections though. The likes of Wade and Twelvetrees must be on that England side.

Spot on Rory. No good having the players on form as long as he picks them in their proper positions. Our 6 nations downfall was SL not doing this...

I think that's only half right - it's not as if SL was picking Wood at 8 over a fit Morgan and Vunipola - neither was in shape to play, IIRC. Which said, he might have called on, say, Easter, and the Goode/Brown combination was an experiment I hope will not be repeated.

Found this old thread with peoples opinions on Ben Morgan prior to him being awarded his first cap.



https://www.606v2.com/t21124-ben-morgan-tells-phill-kingsley-jones-that-he-wants-to-play-for-england




He is a great player, the welsh posters all said that right from the start that England were missing a trick not selectingMorgan sooner after he had played so well at the Scarlets. He was always a proud and successful Scarlet and has gone on to great things with Gloucester.

Really nice lad too from all interviews I've seen with him.

Great to see has now been so well received and respected in England too.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Alex_Germany wrote:Not even enough strength in depth to get 15 Joneses out!

I know what is the world coming to, can't even back it up with some Williams' or Evans' thrown in there.

We seemed to have lost the Jones', Williams' and Evans' - even if you add in Owens' and Jenkins' we don't have a team.

It's our backrows fault - I mean who is called Lydiate, Warburton, Tipuric, McCusker, Shingler, Faletau, Pretorious....it's just silly

We should only select Jones' from now on.

Rhodri Jones
Steve Jones
Adam Jones
AW Jones
Jack Jones
Ryan Jones
Carwyn Jones
Ieuan Jones
Lewis Jones
Steffan Jones
Ross Jones


I might need some help for centres, other winger and fullback...

Alex_Germany wrote:Don't know why, but when ever a Celt compliments England so much I wonder is it sarcasm or some devious plan?

Besides, Ireland isn't exactly short of class back row players.

I was being totally genuine, don't worry.

Ireland aren't short of back row players, but we are definitely short of class ones. Losing the likes of Leamy, Wallace and Ferris (pretty much) in such a short space of time has done us a lot of damage. Add on top of that the poor form of Heaslip for the past few years and a total lack of balance/structure and our back row has been very lacklustre. The likes of O'Brien and O'Mahony are being wasted in Ireland colours.

One thing Ireland have missed is an 8 in the mould of Morgan, or even Picamoles. A real hard running 8 to create momentum. We don't have anyone like that really. Heaslip on his best days maybe.

lostinwales wrote:Yes but... both Morgan and Vunipola were injured. The most pragmatic thing to have done would have been to call up Easter. As for the wing/fullback situation that was what could best be described as a compromise - and one that suited nobody but the alternatives were not great given Burns being injured and Flood not being in the best of forms - therefore the need to play Goode etc etc

Onwards and upwards. Some more dead wood to shift - examples being Strettle whowas great when he first appeared, just injury prone. Hes not as good as the alternatives. Barritt will be around the EPS but he shouldnt be 1st choice anymore - and I think(and in the case of Tait - old but regenerated) talent coming through

If Tait is old but regenerated at ,what 26-27, god help me, possibly Methuselah or possibly Noah?

GloriousEmpire wrote:I been saying Ben Morgan is the best 8 in the world for some time. Welcome onto the bandwagon gentlemen...apologies Acepted.

Not quite. He hasn't been up against the best just yet, nor performed on a consistent basis at the top level yet.

He will be a name thrown around for years to come very soon though I reckon. Along with Vunipola.

I said before that I would be interested to see Vunipola and Morgan in the same back row, just to see the utter mayhem they could cause. You would need one extremely hard working tight 5 and 7 to compliment them though. Could it work? Probably, with the right players and game plan.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:I been saying Ben Morgan is the best 8 in the world for some time. Welcome onto the bandwagon gentlemen...apologies Acepted.

Not quite. He hasn't been up against the best just yet, nor performed on a consistent basis at the top level yet.

He will be a name thrown around for years to come very soon though I reckon. Along with Vunipola.

I said before that I would be interested to see Vunipola and Morgan in the same back row, just to see the utter mayhem they could cause. You would need one extremely hard working tight 5 and 7 to compliment them though. Could it work? Probably, with the right players and game plan.

I agree Rory, in my mind he's way off Kieran Reed for example. Picamoles is still a better carrier and slightly more effective around the park, although Morgan's distribution seems very good. As a straight carrier he's near the top of the tree perhaps, but even then he'll need to do it against NZ and SA before I'm convinced. A long way to go. I don't think he has the shape to ever have Reed's engine, but he needs to close the gap massively on fitness if he wants to be the best no. 8. Ditto Vunipola.

I think Morgan and BV in the same team could go horribly wrong, but our front five is quite small and athletic. But I'd love to see it against SA. I'm fed up with our pack being bullied by them, I'd love to see them square up against Alberts et al.

Ben sure be on he Lions Tour, I know he got injured at the worst time but he is too good to leave out.
You English are lucky to have him, we (the scarlet's) made him.

He seems to have improved massively since his time with the Scarlets, Jhamer. Since he has joined Gloucester and hit the international scene he has been fantastic, much better than I can remember him being at the Scarlets. He was behind Faletau for welsh honours (had he chose to play for Wales) but he is now a better player in my opinion, and I rate Faletau highly.

I know Christian Wade is only a little guy, but there was a photo of the two of them together and my god. Billy is a big bucking boy!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:He seems to have improved massively since his time with the Scarlets, Jhamer. Since he has joined Gloucester and hit the international scene he has been fantastic, much better than I can remember him being at the Scarlets. He was behind Faletau for welsh honours (had he chose to play for Wales) but he is now a better player in my opinion, and I rate Faletau highly.

See I know this will tick of a few Welsh fans and I hope they don't find out where I live but I would prefer Ben Morgan than Toby, don't get me wrong I know toby is a great player but Ben is the type of player who fits the sort of game I like; he is a better ball carrier than Toby and a king of off loads.
Ben was amazing for the Scarlets trust me, especially his last season with us he was absolutely amazing, that's when he got called up for the Saxons. I guess he is more of a product of Nigel Davies who then took Ben with him.
If he did choose to go with team Wales he would defo be in my starting 15, but he went with England. He could have won a Grand Slam and Six Nations trophy by now as well. Shame really.

Mr Bounce wrote:Agreed. There has been WAY too much picking people out of position for some time now, usually in the back row or on the wing . It is something that REALLY annoys me, especially when you consider what strength in depth Lancaster has at his fingertips.

But if you look at the squad as a whole there are a LOT of positions where there is more than enough back up now & SL shouldn't be afraid to call up the next in line when there's an injury. Let's see who there is:

1. Vunipola, Corbisiero, Marler
2. Youngs, Webber (Paice a useful but not top-class backup - I'm not included the penalty/card machine Hartley who is a 1st class plank)
3. Cole, Wilson (Thomas on the way)
4. Launchbury, Lawes
5. Parling, Attwood, Palmer
6. Wood, Croft, Haskell
7. Robshaw, Kvesic
8. Morgan, Vunipola
9. Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth, Dickson (Simpson at a push)
10. Farrell, Flood, Burns
11. May, Yarde, Strettle
12. Twelvetrees, Barritt, Eastmond
13. Tulagi, Joseph
14. Wade, Ashton
15. Brown, Foden, Goode

There's a lot to be happy about

You should think about adding Matthew Tait to the 15 options!

I reckon Tait will have started to show on the England radar already and if he carries on in the pre Xmas AP season as he left off he'll be another serios contender. Really pleased for him because he's had a difficult time of it since his first cap.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Yes but... both Morgan and Vunipola were injured. The most pragmatic thing to have done would have been to call up Easter. As for the wing/fullback situation that was what could best be described as a compromise - and one that suited nobody but the alternatives were not great given Burns being injured and Flood not being in the best of forms - therefore the need to play Goode etc etc

Onwards and upwards. Some more dead wood to shift - examples being Strettle whowas great when he first appeared, just injury prone. Hes not as good as the alternatives. Barritt will be around the EPS but he shouldnt be 1st choice anymore - and I think(and in the case of Tait - old but regenerated) talent coming through

If Tait is old but regenerated at ,what 26-27, god help me, possibly Methuselah or possibly Noah?

Apologies about Tait. You are dead right- it just feels like he has been around for ever, even if its either been on the bench or the treatment table.

[quote="Rory_Gallagher"]

Alex_Germany wrote:Don't know why, but when ever a Celt compliments England so much I wonder is it sarcasm or some devious plan?

Add on top of that the poor form of Heaslip for the past few years ......

Can it really be called form if it has been going on for years? Not trying to argue with you- it just made me think.

[quote="irfon17"]

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Alex_Germany wrote:Don't know why, but when ever a Celt compliments England so much I wonder is it sarcasm or some devious plan?

Add on top of that the poor form of Heaslip for the past few years ......

Can it really be called form if it has been going on for years? Not trying to argue with you- it just made me think.

It's kinda like weather forecasters who call sunny weather settled when in fact it's the wind and rain which is our normal settled weather.....always bugs me that!