Billy Twelvetrees gets Lions call up

First topic message reminder :

Fresh from the twitter vine, 36 called up as "back line cover" for the Lions. 

What can we read into this? Is Sexton's injury worse than we thought?

O'Driscoll was magically in the initial Lions squad photo despite not being present when the photo was taken, due to Leinster commitments. His head was stuck on another body with the magic of photoshop.

I don't think this means that any of the inside backs seriously struggling with injury, more a tacit admission by Gatland that the initial squad was short of a 10/12 (or at least a 12 that can cover 10 for the midweek games).

Add to that Kearney's slow recovery from injury, and Hogg's workload was getting a bit much as 2nd choice fullback, backup fly half and potential impact sub for the Tests. 36 has more senior game time at 10 than Hogg, so at least takes that out of the equation. Good also to have a better footballing 12 available as plan B.

LondonTiger wrote:

Madigan may feel unlucky, but by all accounts struggled against USA.

... not saying Twelvetrees doesn't deserve the call up. Good luck to him, hope he enjoys it.

But Madigan was in a scorcher of an equal contest against a hot and heavy hitting full strength USA (their European players back helping out).  Watch the game and you'll know the real pressure they were applying in contact (not 2nd tier stuff). 

So, his first start at International level and his first time at 10 at International level. Acquitted himself well under the pressure and hoisted up a quite weakened Irish outfit...scoring all their points in a tight game. He said himself he played a basic 10 role with no showboating to try and impress his interim coach that he could obey coaching commands.  And Kiss had directed a basic game.
I loved that because he was implying that he might have released a more creative, risky approach had he been given the coaching grace to do so.

He's not lacking inner confidence anyway, is young Madigan!  And he'd have brought his own individuality to Australia, as I'm sure Twelvetrees will do now if he gets his chance.

Roberts is our only specialist 12, so I think it's a good call.

SecretFly wrote:How many actual guys get pictured in the Lions shirt before the Lions depart?  No sooner does a guy get a mention, and him either in USA (Zebo) or Argentina (Twelvetrees), they're pictured smiling in their Lions kit.

They get their lions photos taken the same time they get their six nations photos, I believe.  So if you are part of your country's squad for that your photo is taken, even if you are almost a certainty not to tour.

Well, I think Billy is a class player, all be it unproven at this level.  I had him down as an outsider for the original squad and from what I've seen of him he is potentialy England's best 12 since Greenwood.  Good luck to him.

Gretgael1 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:How many actual guys get pictured in the Lions shirt before the Lions depart?  No sooner does a guy get a mention, and him either in USA (Zebo) or Argentina (Twelvetrees), they're pictured smiling in their Lions kit.

They get their lions photos taken the same time they get their six nations photos, I believe.  So if you are part of your country's squad for that your photo is taken, even if you are almost a certainty not to tour.

So, all players on the islands can have an "I woz a Lion" picture on their wall for the grandkids to look at in years to come?

"Yeah, that was me in the year we won the series and I scored the winning try. - Which year? - Em...you know me mind is starting to go so dates are a struggle but it was definitely one of them years that happened years ago".

Its all computer jiggery pokery...

Apparantly Adam Jones' body is being used as the double this week, so Twelvetrees head will be superimposed on...


With today's technology they can just as easily replace the shirt on his national photo with one of a Lions shirt.

I dont believe they all have photos just in case, that's riduclous... and just think how much it would cost in developing the film/negatives (... )

Great news to see Twelvetrees called up. Very talented player and could be a real benefit.

sirBiggles wrote:I dont believe they all have photos just in case, that's riduclous... and just think how much it would cost in developing the film/negatives (... )

I agree. If that was they case then they might as well just fly them out to Australia just in case as well. Actually isnt that what Clive Woodward did?

Great call for Billy, well deserved but not sure the right one for all round cover though... Cant help but think Hook has the experience and can cover anywhere in the backs, whilst being a "real" fly-half, which is the position that gives me the most worries (cover wise that is...).

Wow.  Just saw the news.  My initial thought was this is good, but risky.  Good for Billy, but a bit of a risk since he has very limited big time experience.  I certainly think he has the potential, and I suppose we will now find out. 

Obviously, he is there as cover, at least for now.  But we know the injury toll the Lions tend to incur.  So he has at least a 50/50 chance of playing in one or more of the tests. 

I suppose calling up a 10/12 was inevitable.  Although Gatland never admitted so, I think he was keeping the one extra spot open for Jonny.  With JW out of the picture, opened the door for Twelvetrees. 

On a personal note, I hope Twelvetrees never plays. 
For some reason I find it very hard to type T-w-e-l-v-e-t-r-e-e-s.

No need to over-practice, doc. He's in Glaws these days so it will be less required typing as time passes.

36.

Only 2 FH's and 1 real 12 was always going to be a bit light. Certainly his call up doesnt weaken the squad.

I wonder if he will get game time on saturday?

SecretFly wrote:

Gretgael1 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:How many actual guys get pictured in the Lions shirt before the Lions depart?  No sooner does a guy get a mention, and him either in USA (Zebo) or Argentina (Twelvetrees), they're pictured smiling in their Lions kit.

They get their lions photos taken the same time they get their six nations photos, I believe.  So if you are part of your country's squad for that your photo is taken, even if you are almost a certainty not to tour.

So, all players on the islands can have an "I woz a Lion" picture on their wall for the grandkids to look at in years to come?

"Yeah, that was me in the year we won the series and I scored the winning try. - Which year? - Em...you know me mind is starting to go so dates are a struggle but it was definitely one of them years that happened years ago".

They could.....but I doubt they are giving copies of the photos. 

Anyway, Alan Quinlan explained that this was the way it was done 4 years ago.

Must suck to have to fly out there by yourself. Doubt he will be complaining but Ive done the trip solo myself and its extremely boring without company.

Then buy some.  Don't cost too much.

GunsGerms wrote:Must suck to have to fly out there by yourself. Doubt he will be complaining but Ive done the trip solo myself and its extremely boring without company.

How long is the flight from Argentina?

18-20 hours depending on flights and schedules.  No direct flights between BA and Sydney.  One stop in Santiago.  Did that one last year.  Made it with self perscribed Capairinhas.

First of all i am pleased for Billy i really am.

Secondly i am getting worried what will all these call ups. Is his call up as a replacement, or just cover in case a replacement is needed?

Is Tualaghi's shoulder injury worse than they are telling us?

Because these games have been so easy for the Lions are the Lions running themselves in to the ground trying too impress Gatland, that is why there are so many injuries?

doctor_grey wrote:18-20 hours depending on flights and schedules.  No direct flights between BA and Sydney.  One stop in Santiago.  Did that one last year.  Made it with self perscribed Capairinhas.

Corb's flight involved five legs I believe.

greytiger wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:18-20 hours depending on flights and schedules.  No direct flights between BA and Sydney.  One stop in Santiago.  Did that one last year.  Made it with self perscribed Capairinhas.

Corb's flight involved five legs I believe.

Thought most of them used wheels?

Buggar this. It has to be said that the Lions concept is out of time - its no more than an anachronistic flogging horse for the exhausted and quite frankly knackered over played rugby players.

I rate Twelvetrees as the best english centre for a decade (see Greenwood) and yet I have desperately mixed feelings around his Lions call up.

I can't see him making the Test side, at least not the first two tests, but that aside and far more importantly where does it leave him re his crucially limited england development time? The very last thing england need is a reason for Lancaster to revert to his conservative selection of Barrett, because Twelvetrees has been unable to show beyond doubt, to the dullard english management, that he is the now and the future - No I don't think that his Lions selection helps make this point to Lancaster.

Ofcourse from the players perspective I entirely understand and yes congratulate a remarkable personal achievement, however as an extremely pointed england fan the truth is the 'Lions' are no where.

Little englander, you might think so, but its all about context and sadly the truth is in the world of professional modern day rugby union, it can only be about club and country. The Lions is yesteryear.

Risca Rev wrote:

greytiger wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:18-20 hours depending on flights and schedules.  No direct flights between BA and Sydney.  One stop in Santiago.  Did that one last year.  Made it with self perscribed Capairinhas.

Corb's flight involved five legs I believe.

Thought most of them used wheels?

Only on the M4, Rev.
Something like Santiago-Buenos Aires-Montevideo-Aukland-Brisbane(Sydney?)

I hadn't thought about it before, but he was not in Buenos Aires.
So Corb's probable was:
Flight to BA
Flight to Santiago
Flight to Auckland (one of the flights stops off there)
Flight to Sydney
Flight to Brisbane or wherever.
Right out on the training pitch...........
feckin' disaster.

I'm fairly sure on the bbc article Gats mentions that both Farrell and Sexton are carrying injuries. So he's probably there as  mid week cover for them and if Roberts can't stop fumbling the balls.

doctor_grey wrote:I hadn't thought about it before, but he was not in Buenos Aires.
So Corb's probable was:
Flight to BA
Flight to Santiago
Flight to Auckland (one of the flights stops off there)
Flight to Sydney
Flight to Brisbane or wherever.
Right out on the training pitch...........
feckin' disaster.

Be quicker to fly Santiago to BA then either London, LA or Sau Paulo which all fly to Sydney.

Takes ages.

I flew Sau Paulo to Sydney once. There is a large Brazilian community in Sydney's northern beaches.


Glad he's on the tour, but I imagine he'll need a day or two to get his head together in Australia.

Since when did this turn in to a Thomas cook forum!?

Hey!  Don't be bringing the HC negotiations into this.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was a 40 hour trip.

broadlandboy wrote:I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was a 40 hour trip.

They said that on Sky Sports prior to the game on Tuesday, when talking about Corbisiero.

nathan wrote:Since when did this turn in to a Thomas cook forum!?

'Wagons roll' for me on Monday. 4 Waspies going with an Irish tour company and the itinerary is like this...

Mon - Heathrow to Dublin.
Tue - Dublin to Dubai.
Wed - Dubai to Brisbane.
Thu - arrive Brisbane.
Then it's up to Cairns.
Then to Melbourne.
Then to Sydney.
Then Sydney to Dubai, Dublin and Heathrow.

My utmost respect to those fans who have gone out for the whole tour.

The players called out have it easy.

Hound of Harrow wrote:

nathan wrote:Since when did this turn in to a Thomas cook forum!?

'Wagons roll' for me on Monday. 4 Waspies going with an Irish tour company and the itinerary is like this...

Mon - Heathrow to Dublin.
Tue - Dublin to Dubai.
Wed - Dubai to Brisbane.
Thu - arrive Brisbane.
Then it's up to Cairns.
Then to Melbourne.
Then to Sydney.
Then Sydney to Dubai, Dublin and Heathrow.

My utmost respect to those fans who have gone out for the whole tour.

The players called out have it easy.

Have a great time. I was in SA for part of the last tour, a magnificent experience.

maestegmafia wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was a 40 hour trip.

They said that on Sky Sports prior to the game on Tuesday, when talking about Corbisiero.

I got the 18-22 hour time from my itinerary flying from BA to Melbourne via Sydney and Auckland last year.  Shouldn't be much more if Corbs had an extra flight or two on local airlines. 

If 40 hours, it seem logical the docs told him to break the trip into parts and overnighting in Santiago and/or Auckland before continuing on.  The purpose would be to prevent dehydration or DVT.  And both are a pretty significant risk when flying so long.

Cheers maes. I'm looking forward to Aus, if not all the flying

Well enjoy the trip.  Wish I was going too.  Missing my first Lions tour since the last visit to Aus  So please have an extra pint for me.

doctor_grey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was a 40 hour trip.

They said that on Sky Sports prior to the game on Tuesday, when talking about Corbisiero.

I got the 18-22 hour time from my itinerary flying from BA to Melbourne via Sydney and Auckland last year.  Shouldn't be much more if Corbs had an extra flight or two on local airlines. 

If 40 hours, it seem logical the docs told him to break the trip into parts and overnighting in Santiago and/or Auckland before continuing on.  The purpose would be to prevent dehydration or DVT.  And both are a pretty significant risk when flying so long.

I know a girl that got DVT. She was very sick for about a year. Very nasty. Had to take a lot of steriods and have a nurse call to her house every week.