The Leinster Way

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A good in-depth article in the Irish Times, detailing the background and subsequent growth, of Leinster, from a Provincial Irish side, to a prospective European Rugby Super-Power.

It charts the amateur to professional metamorphosis of it all. Right through to the present day and its plans for the future. From running the whole show from a single portakabin in Donnybrook and having a massive staff of one part-timer back in 2001, to an all-encompassing staff of 140 now. All angles, from promotional, player development, marketing, finance, image, to spreading the Leinster Way and its tentacles to 41 constituent clubs around the Province - are now covered. It is a well-oiled machine now.

It explains the ideal of the Leinster Way. No matter what team and at whatever level, underage to the 1st team, they train, are coached and play with one ethos. And in one way. This includes the players personal development and behaviour when representing the province. Home or away. On and off the field. Something, a few errant players in the media now, have never had - obviously. It is so important.

I have lived in Amsterdam for most of my life. This is the Ajax Way. And it works like a dream. All Ajax teams, from under 12 up the 1st team, are coached and play the same way. Open attractive football, played to one system, where individuality and intelligence are actively encouraged and meshed with team-spirit and awareness of the system. It enables slotting players in and out of the System and knowing what they have to do – seamlessly. So simple yet so effective.

Toulouse would be my personal role-model for us. I love their philosophy, how they play and their ideals. Noves defines it. How they handled their recent defeat against us in the HC SF, just said it in spades. They were magnificent in their reaction, even in bitter disappointment, after losing one of the best games in HC History. From their players to their management, they showed their class - on and off the field. I want us to reach that level of class and inner-confidence. Not to mention their success. I want us to earn that right.

The article also addresses the development plans for the RDS. And their move to use all the fantastic indoor and outdoor facilities at UCD next season. These are two pertinent and vital questions, which I have been harping on about for 2 or 3 years now. They were working in it. Good man Mick Dawson.

My preference for developing our spiritual home – Donnybrook (Cap 7,000) is not on the agenda anymore. That has been recognised now, as a 6 and a half mill (new stand) mistake, pre-recession. It was being out-grown as it was being built. Its done and dusted and it will continue be used for A games and A internationals. The RDS is the Future for us. It will be redeveloped. It is our new, fixed, home. Not what I wanted, but hey, thats just being selfish.

For the really big games, the newly redeveloped Lansdowne Road, is next door and we have filled it the 4 times we have used it this year. Over 200,000 paying customers helps to further finance the dream. Success, as always, will breed success.

This is not show-boating. Like most ardent, looney fans from all over the shop, I’ve lived through some bloody awful painful days with my team. My province. Its just an example of what can be achieved from relative humble beginnings, given the full commitment to it.

I'm just proud really, that I, like lots of other loyal Leinster-heads, helped support and finance it over the years.

Believe.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0507/1224296374596.html

I have to admit at times Leinster play some fantastic attacking rugby. I didn't realise they had such lean beginnings which is probably due to their success over the last number of years. It's always nice to hear of a success story that has materialised from very humble beginnings.

I am always hoping my team (NG Dragons) will be able to emerge as a sustainable team with notable success. I say hope because we are now in year 8 and have had little to celebrate on and off the field. However I do believe things are changing this time and for the better.

Was it a major event that turned Leinster's fortunes or was it more down to a long term plan?

BTW good luck for the HC final!

Impossible Standards - I think the major difference between the Irish provinces, who have been reasonably successful, especially Munster and Leinster, and the Welsh regions is that the Irish provinces were a pre-existing and natural division, both in sport and society in general. On the other hand, the Welsh regions were created in a far more haphazard fashion to serve the politics rather than the good of the sport, which makes it far harder for supporters to support the region as whole heartedly as the clubs.

Schro

Yeah thats true. The set up of our Welsh regions will be an ongoing discussion until the end of time I feel. I know a lot of people who still can't seem to fully adopt their so called region due to past politics.

I think maybe over time as younger generations come through they will only know regionalism at the top flight of Welsh rugby so it may be less of an issue as time goes on.

Standards,
I have lot of respect for Dragons, the way they punch above their weight - considering their resources. With the development at Dave Parade and a mainly young, Welsh-based side. the future looks bright. Have some Dragons mates. Great fans.

Nice to chat on here. Its seems like a better run place than 606.

Schrodinger,
that's true man. It is a natural 4-way provincial split, defined by by History. So our "regions", have been Warring with each other for eons - through sport. Specially Munster and Leinster. Long may it run. ;-)

Good to talk to ye guys. Lets help make this site, a great one.

Gibson - Yep, and there were a few actual wars as well, although admittedly, not exactly province against province. It certainly makes for some great derbies.

I second that about making the site great. The best thing is to post as often as possible to encourage others to do so as well.

Actually - the regions in Wales were NOT set up for the sake of Politics. There are basic reasons of Geography and transportation links.

Rugby is played mostly along a strip that runs along South wales from the Severn to Carmarthenshire. The motorways run east to West through that strip. The Train lines run East to West through that strip.

What are the four largest connurbations in Wales?

From East to West: Newport, Cardiff, Swansea, Llanelli.

Even though many great clubs have been "passed over" in the rush to professionalism and their fans feel alienated, it really makes NO sense to base the "Regions" anywhere else.

ML - I would argue that is to serve the politics, i.e. basing the regions around more powerful population centres rather than making regions more inclusive. If they just wanted four super-clubs, they shouldn't have called them regions, which rather implies that they are geographic areas encompassing all of the country. I suspect they called them that so that they wouldn't be accused killing off top flight rugby outside the main population centres, which again I would classify as politics.

Most people are agreed that the clubs were strangling the national side. Petty self interest and our nation's fascination for committees had to be swept away if we were to stand ANY chance of competing with the rest of the world. We dont have enough players to maintain a Welsh only top flight. The Celtic league & regionalism (or super clubs/franchises, whatever you wish to call them) was the ONLY way forward. To survive they have to have the best possible chance of being economically viable.

There is NO way that any other places were going to be considered - it would have been economic suicide. The regions struggle for crowds now - do you think that a stadium in Ebbw Vale, Bridgend or Pontpridd would fare any better? You would have the same tribalism - only this time it would be Cardiff, Newport, Llanelli and Swansea fans bitching and staying away. On top of this you have the appalling transportation problems to get fans to the grounds & poor infrastructure in the towns that host said other clubs.

Its an absolute non-starter.

I am hopeful that the youngsters who never knew the club system will support their regions, and that we can see youngsters piling in through the turnstyles and a resurgence in interest in the game in Wales

I understand why it happened the way it did, but the original point I was making was that because the regions that were created had no pre-existing status, it wasn't as successful as in Ireland where the provinces were long-standing entities.

The club system in wales could not compete with the pooled resources of the irish regions or the higher population centres in england and france.it was right for moffet to take us down that route when he did but llanelli threatening to sue the union at a time when the wru were bankrupt meant it was never going to be an equitable carve up and a lot of people still find it hard to have any affinity with the current set up.

Apologies for turning this into a welsh regional rant on reflection the historical nature of the irish provinces have a huge natural advantage over their welsh counterparts but out should not be forgotten that the crowds they draw now are massive compared to where they started from and that is a reflection on both the provinces yes themselves and the way the irfu have come to terms with professionalism in a way the wru have not

Or did the IRFU get lucky?

I suppose they were lucky in a sense that divisions were naturally in place, the provinces existed way before rugby was invented.

But they could equally have looked at rugby strongholds and built franchises there. Cork and Limerick have a huge sporting rivalry, so it could be seen that 5 franchise teams in Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Limerick and Galway would be just as natural.

Eventually I'd see the Galway team going the way of Borders/Celtic Warriors and the IRFU being left with 4 teams.

They could have done that, but they didn't. So I think luck is not exactly the right word.

Oh and in terms of the "Leinster Way" it's nice to read about it. And it has shown it's strength.

Although I want to see all the provinces doing well it does make me question letting the likes of POD and Stewart Maguire go west, though. Instilling the Leinster Way in them isn't possible while they're being coached elsewhere. It might be good for those guys on an individual level, but it's not particularly great for us.

greybeard wrote:Oh and in terms of the "Leinster Way" it's nice to read about it. And it has shown it's strength.

Although I want to see all the provinces doing well it does make me question letting the likes of POD and Stewart Maguire go west, though. Instilling the Leinster Way in them isn't possible while they're being coached elsewhere. It might be good for those guys on an individual level, but it's not particularly great for us.

Grey,
The Leinster Way is already instilled in them. My bet is POD will be back in 2 seasons. I am not sure about Maguire.

We are starting to become "victims" of our own Academy's success. We have 6 international-class backrowers. 6 into 3 wont go. With the RWC coming up, we will need them all for next season. But after that, I can see 1 or 2 of them going to the other provinces. That's ok. Ireland and Irish Rugby benefits.

We have a proliferation of backs and back-rowers coming through. What we really need to start producing, are more of our own Forwards in the tight-5 (Locks and Props). Cronin and Hagan - will help to redress this gap in the front-3. But, we really need to look at replacing Cullen and the leaving Hines, with Irish-qualified players, over the next 2 years. Do that and my dream of an all-Irish Leinster side, winning a HC, becomes closer to reality.

Now wouldn't that be something to behold?

But the IRFU only copied NZ though, didn't they? Was it visionary or idleness to go with the existing provinces? I'm not stirring, I'd just like to know.

Gibson wrote:Grey,
The Leinster Way is already instilled in them. My bet is POD will be back in 2 seasons. I am not sure about Maguire.

But on their return they'll be tainted (Tainted! I tell you) by some horrible foreign ideas!

Glas,
The IRFU was an utter shambles, full of provincial nepotism and was directionless as a body, for nigh on a 100 years. It looked within itself, outside itself and it formulated a plan to build for long-term, future success. Of course they looked at the NZ model - they looked at them all. But mostly, they looked at their own needs and adjusted to suit.

As for the Provinces - they have been natural sporting and warring rivals for millennia. That blatant fact just need to be exploited both financially and for the greater cause that was Irish Rugby. They have not been constructed. They are natural entities. This is key.

It also must be said, that because of this nepotism, Leinster & Ulster always got more than fair share of the pie. Munster subsequently set the bar higher on their own bat. They used that hurt to become one of the best sides in Europe.

For that, all the provinces and Irish rugby as whole - owe them.

The report which laid down all the present stipulations for Irish Rugby, was called the Genesis Report. It came after the shambles of 2007. And man has that born rich fruit.

Why has Connacht remained under almost constant threat over the last decade?

Glas a du wrote:Why has Connacht remained under almost constant threat over the last decade?

How long have we got? I can have a list for you by Friday.

Gibson wrote:
It also must be said, that because of this nepotism, Leinster & Ulster always got more than fair share of the pie. Munster subsquently set the bar higher on their own bat. They used that hurt to become one of the best sides in Europe.

I've been saying for a while too. This current Ulster team reminds me of Munster aronud 1999. Quite bitter and they would see the IRFU as looking after the "big two" (currently Munster and Leinster). They need to harness that bitterness as Munster did before them.

And Glas the reason for Connacht struggling is that they have zero rugby history or culture. The whole province is steeped in GAA history. It is mainly rural areas and a lot harder to unite the team in the way Munster, Leinster and Ulster can. I have long felt they need to look at Sligo Town as well as Galway City to play their games. Sligo is a big university town, Sligo Grammar school has competed in 3 of the last 4 Connacht Senior Finals. Moving games around the province works for Munster and I think Connacht need to look to cater for the people outside Galway.

But didn't they try that with matches in Athlone a few years ago? They dropped that idea quickly. I imagine the majority of season ticket holders are Galway based, too.

Pre-season matches outside of Galway would be a good idea, though.

The HC might raise their profile within the province, as well.

red_stag wrote:

Gibson wrote:
It also must be said, that because of this nepotism, Leinster & Ulster always got more than fair share of the pie. Munster subsquently set the bar higher on their own bat. They used that hurt to become one of the best sides in Europe.

I've been saying for a while too. This current Ulster team reminds me of Munster aronud 1999. Quite bitter and they would see the IRFU as looking after the "big two" (currently Munster and Leinster). They need to harness that bitterness as Munster did before them.

And Glas the reason for Connacht struggling is that they have zero rugby history or culture. The whole province is steeped in GAA history. It is mainly rural areas and a lot harder to unite the team in the way Munster, Leinster and Ulster can. I have long felt they need to look at Sligo Town as well as Galway City to play their games. Sligo is a big university town, Sligo Grammar school has competed in 3 of the last 4 Connacht Senior Finals. Moving games around the province works for Munster and I think Connacht need to look to cater for the people outside Galway.

In fairness, Stag, Ulster have been well looked after by the IRFU. They were in receipt of the same funding as Munster & Leinster, unlike Connacht. Don't forget the standard & number of Ulster foreign imports as well. Ulster should have kicked on in '99 after their HCup win and they can't blame either Munster, Leinster or the IRFU for that.

Munster had two strong bases (Cork & Limerick), but outside of that, there wasn't much rugby going on - not particularly different to Connacht except that Munster had two centres rather than one. And there is massive competition from GAA in Munster - just check out how many All Ireland's have gone to Connacht counties!

I think Connacht did mess up by not holding any games in Athlone - there are some big 'border' towns (in Munster & Leinster) around there where it would have attracted interest and built up a bit of a following.

I think the problem with the city of Galway is that it doesn't really have much of a sporting culture, people are more into the arts etc.- and who would blame them - the weather is terrible in winter for playing sport.

Sin é wrote:I think the problem with the city of Galway is that it doesn't really have much of a sporting culture, people are more into the arts etc.- and who would blame them - the weather is terrible in winter for playing sport.

True. And worse, Galway as a county (not the town) still has the most sucessful sporting culture in the province. Galway footballers and hurlers have won the All-Ireland a lot more recently than the other counties and apart from Gavin Duffy I don't think there are any Connacht natives in the rugby squad from outside Galway county.

SinE, I didn't say the Ulster fans were right People like Neil Francis only give rise to this attitude more - saying that Ulster players get chosen for tokenism etc.

red_stag wrote:SinE, I didn't say the Ulster fans were right People like Neil Francis only give rise to this attitude more - saying that Ulster players get chosen for tokenism etc.

Off topic Stag, but did you read Francis today in the indo. He thinks Munster should hire Eddie O'Sullivan.

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:SinE, I didn't say the Ulster fans were right People like Neil Francis only give rise to this attitude more - saying that Ulster players get chosen for tokenism etc.

Off topic Stag, but did you read Francis today in the indo. He thinks Munster should hire Eddie O'Sullivan.

You know what I actually really enjoy reading Francis. He has such strong views I either agree or disagree 100%. This time I can't agree. Eddies a top coach but has his way of doing things. It doesn't work like that in Munster - you need to buy into Munsters ethos to do well. For me its Anthony Foley unless Declan Kidney is coming back to us.

Sin é wrote:Off topic Stag, but did you read Francis today in the indo. He thinks Munster should hire Eddie O'Sullivan.

Everyone knows Francis hates Munster

greybeard wrote:

Sin é wrote:Off topic Stag, but did you read Francis today in the indo. He thinks Munster should hire Eddie O'Sullivan.

Everyone knows Francis hates Munster

And Leinster. Did ye ever see him play?

Some of his views are close to the bone and true. I did say SOME. He says what others are thinkin - sometimes. But he's mainly engaged in WUMing and selling copy and it works a treat. At least he's more knowledgable than that gobshoite Jones, in the Times.

In all honesty, I think Steady-Eddie - along with Axel - would be perfect for Munster. McGahan is not going to take ye there, imo.

Gibson wrote:

greybeard wrote:

Sin é wrote:Off topic Stag, but did you read Francis today in the indo. He thinks Munster should hire Eddie O'Sullivan.

Everyone knows Francis hates Munster

And Leinster. Did ye ever see him play?

Some of his views are close to the bone and true. I did say SOME. He says what others are thinkin - sometimes. But he's mainly engaged in WUMing and selling copy and it works a treat. At least he's more knowledgable than that gobshoite Jones, in the Times.

In all honesty, I think Steady-Eddie - along with Axel - would be perfect for Munster. McGahan is not going to take ye there, imo.

Yes he fulfills a vital role in the media and I like reading his stuff. Close to bone but entertaining. A lot of fans dismiss it before reading it.

As for Eddie maybe in tandem with Axel. But I just don't see it. He dominated Ireland with HIS way of doing things and an overly conservative demeanor. Munster can't afford that. Apparently dialogue between players and coaches has always been two way. Anthony Foley said as a player his job was to tell Kidney if the players disagreed with something and he said Paul O'Connell comes to him and McGahan saying the same stuff. If Eddie has changed his totalitarian stance bring him in. He's a good backs coach. But I fear the same thing could happen.

P.S. - McGahan certainly won't take us to next level.

What's wrong with Jones? He has strong, independently minded views. Not a peddler of received wisdom he.

red_stag wrote:Yes he fulfills a vital role in the media

So do the paparazzi