The Edinburgh Problem

by bsando Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:44 am

So I've been getting updates on Facebook regarding pre season training. As an Edinburgh fan, I am deeply concerned by the state of the club. It seems ridiculous that Edinburgh could have been in the semi finals of the Hineken Cup only just over a year ago. It also seems insane that the club could perform so poorly after such a great achievement.

My particular worry is the effect it is having on Scottish international players. Players such as Laidlaw, Visser and Denton, have all been under the cosh by us fans last year or so. It is obvious that Edinburgh's struggling club form has had a negative impact on some players. Visser may have been top try scorer again last season, but he had that in the bag before Xmas essentially. The second half of the season for him opened up all kinds of criticism, particularly his defence, which appears to have affected the possibility of him being called up to the Lions. Wade, zebo and flipping retired Shane Williams all getting the nod ahead of the 4 times rabbo top try scorer.

Denton was a sensational prospect when he first played England in 2012. Many saw him as a lions candidate, yet by the following 6 nations he was not on many people's mind at all, including Scottish fans.

Laidlaw, widely regarded as a huge part of Edinburghs success has also endured a lot of critiscim in that second season under Bradley. I was extremely critical of his play which I found to be extremely negative compared to the ingenious displays he exuded in the first season with Bradley in charge.

So as a new season draws near, I wonder just what the hell are Edinburgh going to do? Because at the moment, I would actually prefer these players to leave the club and play elsewhere, where they can flourish as players and become better internationals. My biggest concern is that this season is another disaster, and the reputations and performances of Scottish internationals plummet further. As much I would love Edinburgh to have high quality players, I care more for the success of Scotland on the international stage. If that means losing Visser, Denton, Ford, Rennie or Laidlaw, so be it.

Therefore, what does the SRU need to do? What does Edinburgh rugby need to do?

I would say, get a decent young coach and bring back the traditional style of Edinburgh play. through the hands, out wide rugby.

Thoughts?

by Weegie Wizard Sun 16 Jun 2013, 1:00 pm

I agree that last season was a big disappointment but I think Edinburgh supporters need to relax a bit.
The SRU need to appoint a good coach first of all. it should be a far more attractive position than Dragons, Connacht etc that were close to you in the league.

There are at least 10 guys in the current squad, a couple of which you mentioned, who are good enough to challenge for playoffs. The new guy needs to recruit well in key positions like outside half.

The last 3 or 4 years have been a project at Glasgow and we now look like a side that can really challenge the top teams. There same can easily happen at Edinburgh with as few as 3 or 4 good additions to the squad.

As I've said a few times before, I would start with Ruairidh Jackson.

by red_stag Sun 16 Jun 2013, 1:57 pm

- Get yourself a good coach. Eddie O'Sullivan is still an option. Could even look at bringing back in Andy Robinson (always thought he was great club coach but poor internationally). Declan Kidney is out of work. Mike Ruddock might be ready to get back to club work. Chick Chalmers would be an inexpensive gamble too.

- Abandon Murrayfield. Seriously you give up home advantage in every game. Find yourself a nice stadium of upto 15,000 seats.

- Import a halfback partner for Laidlaw. This is massive priority I think. Your backline is rudderless and needs direction.

- Import an experienced veteran second row/blindside. Gilchrist is still too green and I think your backrow already has a ball carrier in Denton and a great openside in Rennie. Get a 'tweener' who covers both positions.

by Cryptoyourisan Sun 16 Jun 2013, 2:13 pm

I think Edinburgh's problems are down to coaching, signings and selection. Edinburgh were rank rotten under Rob Moffat and it's little surprise given that he operated a rotational selection policy regardless of whether the players were in form. I think Bradley must have been trying to build a multinational squad to minimise the hits he'd have to take during the international windows but the vast majority of the players he brought in were utter dross.

The selection problems continued under Bradley at stand-off and I think players like James King and Mark Robertson would have ended up capped had they been at Glasgow, rather than drifting in and out of Edinburgh with no real rationale. As stated above, finding a less soulless venue to play at may help in the long run too. Look at what changing to a bigger pitch did for Glasgow...

by **RDW** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 4:51 pm

I posted this on another thread but there is an interview with Tom Smith in the Scotsman this morning. He mainly talks about the Lions but has some scathing things to say about Scottish rugby and Graham Low in particular:

He had previously been at Edinburgh but he was frustrated by several things, not least an SRU director of rugby who had no previous experience of the game in Scotland.
“Every conversation I had with Graham Lowe started: ‘In New Zealand we did it this way’ and that was the extent of his knowledge,” is one of Smith’s kinder observations. “He was behind a lot of Edinburgh’s journeymen signings. Guys within the organisation could have done a better job, guys who knew Scottish rugby better.”
The influence of foreigners on Scottish rugby is a contentious issue but Smith is not against them per se. He would have offered Wayne Smith a blank cheque to become Scotland’s head coach and he insists that [Scotland’s Welsh forwards coach] Jonathan Humphreys and [Scotland’s Kiwi head-coach-in-waiting] Vern Cotter are two of the good guys.
But there are plenty of the other sort, tumbleweeds who arrive with a fanfare and slip out the back door a couple of years later. It’s a complex area, the foreign influence, and by commenting on it Smith insists that he isn’t fishing for an invitation to return to Murrayfield.
“Have we handed the keys of the castle over to another guy and said here you go, take Scottish rugby and do what you like for the next few years? Maybe? Maybe it’s the right decision. I don’t know. I’ve come full circle on this. There are good people in Scottish rugby, guys like John Jeffrey and others from that era. We have two Lions captains that we don’t use. You don’t have to have been a professional coach but you know Scottish rugby, you live in Scotland, you have a better crack at getting that balance between the clubs and the international team right and we know that, in ten years’ time, you are going to be living in Scotland and contributing. I don’t want to come over all nationalistic and say it’s got to be a Scottish bloke but there does come a point when you have to promote a few guys from within.”

So sounds like it is Low's fault we've been dumped with a load of journeymen - fantastic!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sun 16 Jun 2013, 6:10 pm

Isn't Alan Solomons about to be announced as Head Coach?

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 6:25 pm

The past two seasons have really stuck in the craw for me because in retrospect our problems were (a) two coaches without a gameplan and/or the ability to coach the gameplan that they had and (b) a spectacular amount of dross being brought in as players.

The person I was really disappointed with was Bradley. Week after week I tried to find a consistent strategy that everybody was clearly trying to execute but I found nothing. I simply do not know what they were trying to accomplish. If we were trying for a fast offloading game, it relies on relentless drilling to develop those kind of skills and loose forwards with confidence and balance amongst the three. Edinburgh just did not seem able to execute it and clearly had no 'Plan B' - something which in itself is a product of not having a single dominant 10 to build their backline around. Far too much is expected of Laidlaw in that respect.

The nonsense that dribbled through the door was honestly inexcusable too and the piece above by Graham Lowe rings absolutely true to me as the worst Edinburgh project signings smacked of hopefullness and a genuine lack of ambition rather than picking players on skill and form in a buyer's market - as though the Edinburgh management thought that they were getting a 'bargain' or that they saw something in players other coaches and scouts did not. Atiga could not have been consistently viewed in a game situation, VdW was carrying when he arrived, Basilaia could only have looked good in highlight reels. Guys like Yapp and Titterall did the job that they were meant to do but no more and a signing like Francis when real prospects like Allan and Heathcote were dithering a little about their future was just plain and simply bad judgement.

The crucial problem was that good, established club players clearly regressed last season, surely the death knell for any coach. Visser faded horribly in the second half the season (not enough has been made of the incredible fact that the first half of the season only was enough to get him the Golden Testicles (or whatever) for a 4th time), Brown and Jones had second season syndrome, McInally faded in and out, Grant went completely off the boil, Denton was not correctly disciplined and helped once his star started to rise (so he did not improve) and DeLuca did not become more consistent, despite all his talents.

That, coupled with real gems like Rennie and Cairns having to sit on the sidelines for most of the time made something of a perfect sh!tstorm for Edinburgh and their league position reflected this. I think that Edinburgh has one season to turn this around or guys like Laidlaw, Visser, Rennie, Denton and Scott are going to be snapped up by better clubs who are not guaranteed to tank in the Heineken Cup.

There is a solution on the horizion, hopefully. The omnishambolic management can be fixed by a great coach and I hope that the rumours about Plumtree or Solomons are true because each of them are too long in the tooth to get ordered around by McBumferties who let dinosaurs like Lowe make their decisions.

It's never been a better time to have a Rabo club. Everyone is looking at this league and there is real talent willing to travel if you can choose well. You don't need many players to turn a team around. Ulster did it with Pienaar, Afoa and Muller. If Connacht can sign someone as awesome as Craig Clarke, Edinburgh has no excuse - they are limited only by the ambition of the people holding the purse strings. You've probably worked out by now that I want them to succeed desperately this season because Scotland is only half as strong without a competitive east coast.

We also need someone with real conkers to bring change, because a lot of these problems (like the one about playing in the mausoleum that is Murrayfield) have been going on for far, far too long. Let's get busy living or busy dying.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 16 Jun 2013, 6:33 pm

Because they play at SRU HQ they are a direct arm of the SRU numpties. Therefore there is a real conceit amongst the Tweed FP brigade amongst the supporters that they kind of own Scottish rugby. There are posters on 606 who seem to believe this too. I saw it when a grouo of us went through to cheer Embra on v Toulouse last year. We made more noise than most of them and in the pubs post game there was the usual snooty, stuck up attitude instead of celebrating a fantastic victory with fellow rugby people.
The upshot is they need to get real rugby dudes into M'field and not the champers and hampers St Andrews/Barnton brigade- who mostly go to be seen and do Mexican waves (at Int games esp).

by Majestic83 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 6:35 pm

The main problems at Edinburgh for the past few seasons has been a lack of leadership. Both from the Coaches but also a strong leadership group on the pitch.
There has been no continuity in the selection of the teams with it chopping and changing each week. Players can't gel together and form strong partnerships.
The game plan that has been put in place is only one game plan and if that fails there has been nothing in reserve. The game plan that was put in place by the previous coaching set up the players didn't believe in and didn't understand as Bradley tried to over complicate things.

The signings have also been very poor compared to previous players brought in especially from overseas.

The leadership group on the pitch has not been great either, this i believe started when Roddy Grant was made captain, someone who was not guaranteed a starting spot. This season due to the chopping and changing of the squad from week to week it has been passed about the squad and some of those guys have not been experienced enough or good enough to be leaders. Guys like Sean Cox should be no where near being captain due to the poor example he sets on the pitch.

With a strong coaching set up put in place and a strong leadership group on the pitch and some good quality signings Edinburgh can turn it around. There are good players there but they need a 2/3 good quality experienced players brought in.

There are a number of these about at the moment that wouldn't cost the earth to bring across in the key positions that need strengthened.

For me Edinburgh needs a big blindside who can hit hard,ruck and carry the ball and act as an enforcer. Same for the 2nd row too. The other key position is fly half, we have harry leonard who has great potential but he is a year or 2 away from being first choice.

For the blindside role the player I would bring in would be Michael Rhodes who was one of Josh Strauss team mates at the lions. 6ft 6 around about 18 stones, won't be on massive wages in SA, he is strong, aggressive and exactly what Edinburgh need.

2nd row the player we should have brought in was Craig Clarke who has now gone to CONNACHT!! How the sru missed him is beyond a joke!

Fly half it would have been great if Tom Heathcote had signed but he hasn't for now. Out of contract for next season and we should target him.
There is a overload of 10s at Glasgow now. Hogg could play there for them, Horne, Jackson, Wight, Weir and Russell. Jackson or even wight would be good signings but unlikely.

From overseas for me the main target should be Robbie Robinson, very good at 10 and 15, won a super xv title last season, scottish qualified and has stated he wants to play more at 10 but is unlikely to happen at the chiefs or any of the other superxv teams in new zealand due to the high caliber player they have there. Will he ever get a cap for the all blacks? unlikely!

by Majestic83 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 6:42 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Because they play at SRU HQ they are a direct arm of the SRU numpties. Therefore there is a real conceit amongst the Tweed FP brigade amongst the supporters that they kind of own Scottish rugby. There are posters on 606 who seem to believe this too. I saw it when a grouo of us went through to cheer Embra on v Toulouse last year. We made more noise than most of them and in the pubs post game there was the usual snooty, stuck up attitude instead of celebrating a fantastic victory with fellow rugby people.
The upshot is they need to get real rugby dudes into M'field and not the champers and hampers St Andrews/Barnton brigade- who mostly go to be seen and do Mexican waves (at Int games esp).

Agreed, not been to Murrayfield for Edinburgh games as i used to get too but recently when i have been there the atmosphere has been worse than ever. Its not just due to the size of the stadium but there are a large majority of fans who seem uninterested in watching the rugby but more interested in being seen at the rugby. In the bars after the game there is no mingling of fans or banter amongst the supporters like you do at other clubs.
There needs to be a new breed of supporters brought in who are interested in the game and not just being seen at a game. To do this they need to bring in better ticket prices. £25 for an adult ticket to a rabo game is a joke!!
A more reasonable price would be £10 for adults and £5 for children, more people would be tempted to come along and watch a game. I was involved with the Western Force when they first started in Australia, we got huge crowds to our games even though rugby was not a big sport in WA due to Aussie rules and cricket. What the people in marketing did though was make the tickets very reasonably priced, around $15 for an adult. With a pre bought match ticket you then also got free travel to and from the game on the trains.

by **Notch** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:22 pm

AsLongAs wrote:Isn't Alan Solomons about to be announced as Head Coach?

That would be a very good signing.

by **RDW** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:55 pm

Those that know me on here know that the Murrayfield issue is one of my pet hates. The number of times someone asks why we don't just move somewhere else is ridiculous. If it was that simple we would have moved!

There really are no suitable alternatives existing - we would have to build a new one. Unfortunately the SRU are skint and Edinburgh City Council have spent all their money on the trams - so that ain't gonna happen soon.

I can see us still being there in 5 years time.

TBH you can get a decent atmosphere at Edinburgh games believe it or not - the problem this year is that the team have been so crap there has been no chance to build an atmosphere!

Take away the Toulouse game (which was one of the best atmospheres I've been in) there have been some good games at Murrayifled - the 11500 for the London Irish game gave a fantastic atmosphere (we were also playing well and winning) and there have been a few games with just 6000 that have been good.

SO basically I think it is as much what happens on the pitch as the stadium itself.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:54 pm

If nothing else, the bare minimum should be to find a blindside. This has gone on for so long it has become a joke. Playing an 8 or a 7 at 6 should only ever be a stopgap until you can bring someone in. Yet weve been doing it year after year and wondering why our pack is relatively soft... You dont have to be a tactical mastermind to understand the concept of balance in a pack, yet its been beyong both Moffatt, Bradley, Lowe and due to it now being too late to expect anything more, Stevie Scott too.

Hopefully Mcivor gets a chance, and having him train with the squad last season wasnt just an attempt to momentarily appease the public who were calling for more local players to get chances, before resuming normal service of singing anyone and everyone from elsewhere.

Also, Ive said it a few times since he first appeared, Convert Mcalpine to the backrow and desensitise him videos of dogs being kicked while a bald guy with a cockney accent verbally abuses him and punches him in the arm sporadically. He could be a great blindside with a bit of work, while I just cant see him bulking up enough to be a top class second row.

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:51 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Those that know me on here know that the Murrayfield issue is one of my pet hates. The number of times someone asks why we don't just move somewhere else is ridiculous. If it was that simple we would have moved!

There really are no suitable alternatives existing - we would have to build a new one. Unfortunately the SRU are skint and Edinburgh City Council have spent all their money on the trams - so that ain't gonna happen soon.

I can see us still being there in 5 years time.

TBH you can get a decent atmosphere at Edinburgh games believe it or not - the problem this year is that the team have been so crap there has been no chance to build an atmosphere!

Take away the Toulouse game (which was one of the best atmospheres I've been in) there have been some good games at Murrayifled - the 11500 for the London Irish game gave a fantastic atmosphere (we were also playing well and winning) and there have been a few games with just 6000 that have been good.

SO basically I think it is as much what happens on the pitch as the stadium itself.

Honestly, stadia are one of the easiest asset classes to project finance because it's bloody obvious where the revenue streams will come from to repay the loan. Is it really beyond the wit of the SRU to retain Murrayfield for funerals, bar mitzvahs and the like whilst letting private business fund and take the upside from a demolition and complete rebuilding of a league or soccer stadium? Or is there STILL not a venue that we would work with to make that happen? Or does the money need to into signing Kieran Read first?

by Weegie Wizard Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:23 am

I thought I read a month or two ago about a council employee getting into trouble about planning permission for a new stadium at Raeburn Place.

Was that anything to do with Edinburgh? Did it even happen or am I having the least interesting dreams in the world?

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:37 am

There’s a big debate in Stockbridge just now because they are wanting to build a new commercial development there and new changing rooms for Accies. A lot of the residents think it will be against the character of the place.

So unfortunately don’t think it is much to do with Edinburgh…

by VinceWLB Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:03 am

Van der Westhuizen will be your 1st choice lock, very physical player, Swinson like, last year he played 16 months non stop, not acceptable in the pro era.

Is Ross Ford staying? Is physical presence would be missed in a rather soft pack.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:34 am

Well to be fair the Jambos are going down the tubes, who knows... maybe Romanov would take a tenner for Tynecastle?

Schiz I know what you are saying about the Edinburgh Blazer brigade, but you cannae get much more working class than a fifer and (this season aside) I try to get along to Edinburgh games. This season was hard because It'll cost me in excess of 30 quid to go along with train tickets to see my team get pumped.

I found it more enjoyable to watch on BBC alba.

Onto where Edinburgh need to go. I agree with posters above, this is a last chance salloon type season. We make a hash of it this season and we can probably wave goodbye to Laidlaw, Denton, Visser, Rennie, Ford and probably others. Would it be such a bad thing?

The soap dodgers had a tough few seasons when a lot of their big stars left and brought through guys who will now be forming the cornerstones of the Scottish team.

What Edinburgh need is a coach who isn't so short sighted. Letting Grant go was a big mistake, we are frankly desperate for a loosehead of his calibre.

Also stop signing these unknown foreign journeymen. Atiga, Francis, Dr Penn "who?" and others haven't strengthend us, they have weakend us. Francis got a lot of game time, especially during the 1872 matches and Leonard had been playing really well in the run up to those matches.

Basicly we are in a mess at the moment, and the scary thing is we have to turn it around this season if we want to retain the star power.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:58 am

Thinking about it, there are actually a lot of people that come to the game and don’t really watch what’s going on. You could maybe understand the kids running about the running track, but the number of groups of guys standing back from the barriers drinking beer and chatting is a little ridiculous.

Why pay £25 quid and not watch the bloody game??

by EWT Spoons Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:06 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Thinking about it, there are actually a lot of people that come to the game and don’t really watch what’s going on. You could maybe understand the kids running about the running track, but the number of groups of guys standing back from the barriers drinking beer and chatting is a little ridiculous.

Why pay £25 quid and not watch the bloody game??

I brought the wife and one of her mates to a game this season, because they 'really wanted to go'. They spent the entire game standing back from the barrier chatting. Most expensive conversation I've ever had to pay for. That said we were terrible that day so they didn't really miss much, but lesson learned.

On topic, whilst I would love for Edinburgh to move into a more suitable stadium, there is nothing wrong with MF (aside from being far too big for Edinburgh) whereas there is a lot wrong with the squad/coaching staff etc. I'd much rather the SRU focus their time on getting Edinburgh a head coach and then some semi competent players before worrying about a stadium.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:21 pm

I think it makes more sense to criticise the residents of Edinburgh who don't come to the rugby than those who do! I also agree with RDW that the players have some responsibility regarding atmosphere as well. It's an uphill task generating enthusiasm at Murrayfield when you're 20 points down and most of the players look less interested even than the fans.

The fix is all down to the head coach. We need a top class coach to get things right on and off the field. Proper training schedules, a proper pre-season, thoughtful signings and smart tactics. We've seen before that when the results are positive, locals will come and generate noise. The stadium is a problem, but we can only work with what we have. I've given up on the men in suits at the SRU, but if we can get the right coach then the playing side of things must improve.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:42 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
On topic, whilst I would love for Edinburgh to move into a more suitable stadium, there is nothing wrong with MF (aside from being far too big for Edinburgh) whereas there is a lot wrong with the squad/coaching staff etc. I'd much rather the SRU focus their time on getting Edinburgh a head coach and then some semi competent players before worrying about a stadium.

Agree with this.

i'm actually fairly confident that we're going to have a decent season this year (shock horror!). The major things wrong last season were 1) player attitude and 2) coaching.

The players will hopefully be embarrassed by last season, and the likes of Denton et al who suddenly thought they were God's gift to rugby have discovered that they aren't. I think it's fair to say Denton's attitude cost him a shot at a Lions place, which is a shame as an on form Denton would have thrived on this tour.

Similarly Laidlaw has been poor, but half way through the season he was moved from 10 back to 9. Give him a full pre-season and constant game time at 9 and he will be back to his best.

And with regards to the coaches, with talk of a top Super XV coach this will hopefully improve significantly. Even Stevie Scott and Hodge will do a job on a temporary basis - we finished the season OK with them in charge.

So I'm not saying we're going to be top of the league, but I would be very surprised and disappointing if we end up in the bottom 4 and don't win any Heineken games.

We do desperately need at least one 6/8 and a few centres though....

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 2:38 pm

It's the apparent lack of ambition for Edinburgh from the SRU that annoys me the most. It's like it's fine just to have a rugby club and put a team out.

by EST Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:53 pm

It seems that most posters here have a better grasp of what to do than the SRU. The handling of Bradley was useless, and the signings that have followed are uninspiring to say the least. Edinburgh bears all the hallmarks of an institution with zero leadership. For what it's worth, this is what i would make priorities:

1. Obvious, but get in a proven head coach - somebody to instil some discipline, desire and work ethic.

2. Employ an up and coming Scottish coach to work under the head man. (I actually think that steps have been taken to recruit individuals to both pro teams?) I would go for Simon Cross of Edinburgh Accies; He has has a good season with Accies, and has been involved in the U20 program. Importantly, he has an in-depth knowledge of Scottish Rugby and Edinburgh means something to him, being a former club captain - a link to the Scottish game and to have a Scottish influence is absolutely key, in my opinion.

3. Sean Lineen and the new coaching team sit down and identify the weaknesses in the squad, and get the right players in to these positions. There needs to be a signing policy at Edinburgh, a plan so that in two years down the line the squad has the right age profile, with enough Scottish guys and with adequate cover - essentially what Glasgow have achieved. The new coach will obviously run his eye over the current team, when he finds the players he doesn't think are up to it, the SRU need to bite the bullet and get rid of them.

4. Forget about the stadium in the short term, priority no.1 is the squad and the team performing.

I'm hopeful that Edinburgh can turn it around this season, but I fear the SRU have left all of this a little too late.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:57 pm

On Laidlaw I thought he was significantly improved against South Africa, and really mixed things up with a good mix of kicking, passing (more accurately) and running. His goal kicking was of course very good also. Slight docked point for getting run over for the last try, but really Denton should have smashed that guy back.

We do have a better team than our league placing over the last two seasons would suggest. Hopefully, with the right coach, we challenge for a top half finish. That would be a realistic aim, plus a couple of wins in the HC.

by the_oncoming_storm Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:47 pm

I've been intending to join this forum for ages, this seems like as good a time as any to throw in my 2p. I was a new Edinburgh supporter last season so I can't comment on any long term trends, however the obvious things to my new eyes that need fixed are:

Right from the beginning of the season, even when leading matches, the players never looked confident from the moment the stepped onto the park. A good coaching team should be able to fix that.
I think Laidlaw at 9 playing as zippily as he did last weekend, and a number 10 with solid game management would have turned 6 or 7 defeats into victories last season. Slow ball and kicking at the wrong times were the team's downfall in several games.
The team desperately need a good plan B when "get the ball to Visser" isn't producing the goods. I lost count of the number of times the chip kick over the defence was attempted upon entering the opposition 22 - almost inevitably leading to anything other than a try.
The scrum needs shoring up; too many penalties were given away last year. I've no intuition about how the new engagement rules will affect the team.
I've no idea what can be done about the atmosphere at Murrayfield short of a concerted effort to get more people through the gates, but it's clear from listening to the away fans that having a team name with more than 2 syllables makes chanting pretty difficult (although I recall a couple of short-lived "Gunners" chants).

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:52 pm

Welcome to thy forum - good to have more Edinburgh fans on here!

by CraigS1874 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:15 pm

I agree with rugger radge, get rid of ford laidlaw visser Denton cross and potentially rennin. All of these players are good enough to get other clubs and having competition will make them better because at the moment they have gone flat. Use this money to invest in some solid experienced players who will help the youngsters such as Gilchrist, mcalpine, hislop, Sam hidalgo, Leonard, auld etc. All of these players are good but need genuine quality Hungary players around them rather than players who are in there comfort zones. People like the argentine tiesi at London welsh would be a good addition at centre and I would like to see a number 8 from the Southern Hemisphere like Strauss at glasgow who will make the hard yards.

by alexgmacdonald Mon 17 Jun 2013, 6:56 pm

I think Edinburgh need to become a team that is hard to beat. Base the team on strong defence, hard running and hard workers at the breakdown.

These principles got Sean Lineen's Glasgow side to the play offs a few times and it provided Gregor Townsend with a great platform to launch the team forward.

Edinburgh really needs a coach that will make them abrasive and hard working. Forget about the cute offloads and complex backs moves and have a team the plays with heart and work hard for each other.

You have to admit Glasgow is a great model to work from.

Not bad for a bunch of soap dodgers, eh? Wink

by Majestic83 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:44 pm

Agreed, Glasgow is definitely a great model for a club now. Great facilities, good coaching set up, great recruitment meaning they have a very strong squad and most importantly a great team spirit. They also seem to have built a good rapport which the local community and have a strong fan base which is improving all the time.
Out of those things what do Edinburgh have?? Great facilities and that is about it.

The main thing for me that needs worked on is the coaching team, better recruitment, team spirit and better incentives for fans to come along....not £25 for a ticket!!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:57 pm

CraigS1874 wrote:I agree with rugger radge, get rid of ford laidlaw visser Denton cross and potentially rennin. All of these players are good enough to get other clubs and having competition will make them better because at the moment they have gone flat. Use this money to invest in some solid experienced players who will help the youngsters such as Gilchrist, mcalpine, hislop, Sam hidalgo, Leonard, auld etc. All of these players are good but need genuine quality Hungary players around them rather than players who are in there comfort zones. People like the argentine tiesi at London welsh would be a good addition at centre and I would like to see a number 8 from the Southern Hemisphere like Strauss at glasgow who will make the hard yards.

Are they well know for producing quality rugby players?!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:00 pm

Happy to follow the glasgow model, as long as we don't have to have Dan Parks at 10!

by alexgmacdonald Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:34 pm

No dan parks, but a solid 10 similar to Duncan weir. Good territorial kicking and strong defence and hopefully some attacking flair too. I would say Harry Leonard could be he guy as long as he gets time in the shirt.

I think the main thing is heart and passion for the shirt. You can always tell the Glasgow players come off after the game knowing that they've given their all, win, lose or draw.

by Kingshu Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:43 pm

Theres reports hearts are in trouble and may have to sell their stadium.
I wonder if Edinburgh will look into it?

Think it would depend if Hearts survive, a ground share wouldn't work. Didnt really for Glasgow and don't want to appear to side with one Edinburgh club over another, but if Hearts went to the wall and there was an empty stadium adminisrators were for selling cheap???

by Majestic83 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:45 pm

Tynecastle wouldn't work for rugby, far too small a pitch. Kickers would be slotting penalties over from their own 22.

by Kingshu Tue 18 Jun 2013, 12:23 am

Theres reports hearts are in trouble and may have to sell their stadium.
I wonder if Edinburgh will look into it?

Think it would depend if Hearts survive, a ground share wouldn't work. Didnt really for Glasgow and don't want to appear to side with one Edinburgh club over another, but if Hearts went to the wall and there was an empty stadium adminisrators were for selling cheap???

by EWT Spoons Tue 18 Jun 2013, 9:35 am

EST – I agree with the priorities you’ve listed. Get the team and coaching staff right and then start thinking beyond that.

With regards to Tynecastle, as many others have called out, the pitch is too small, which is why Hearts had to play their European games at MF. Also the assumption of their demise is very premature. Once they go into admin they are pretty much going to be debt free, with only a paltry 15pt deduction from next season. With the rumours of around 6 interested parties looking to come in and take over, I can’t see the administrator pushing for the stadium to be sold, given that would probably see off any interested party and see Hearts fold.

Tynecastle is not a realistic or available option.

by **RDW** Tue 18 Jun 2013, 9:38 am

Mark Dodson not pulling any punches with regards to the state of Edinburgh rugby club:

AS THEY home in on a new head coach for Edinburgh, the SRU have admitted that improving the capital side’s fortunes will be a major project over the next few seasons.

Mark Dodson, the union’s chief executive, has just returned from South Africa where he met with Alan Solomons, the former Springbok, Ulster and Northampton head coach. The 62-year-old is director of rugby at the Southern Kings, South Africa’s new Super Rugby franchise on the Eastern Cape, whose fixtures end in mid-July.
Dodson insisted that he was just one of several coaches he has met in recent weeks, but added that he expects the new man to be at Murrayfield in August to start a major revamp of the club.
“Edinburgh is going to be reconstructed,” he said. “We had a European Cup semi-final that probably masked some of the structural problems underneath the Edinburgh business.
“The fact of the matter is that the big difference between Glasgow and Edinburgh is that Edinburgh’s signings didn’t work, didn’t fire, whereas the signings that were made in Glasgow all worked.
“What Gregor [Townsend] has done has made them much more of an attacking threat, while still being difficult to beat, but there is a soft core at the centre of Edinburgh; there is not that team ethic and they don’t seem to be able to bring that level of competitiveness.
“That’s why we are taking so long to find a head coach. We want someone who can instil that competitiveness into the club. They have to start again from first principles by building the club from the ground up. We have been working flat out since Michael Bradley left us. We have talked to a variety of coaches . . . but at the moment nothing is decided.”
Some, including Carl Hogg, the new Worcester head coach, and Sale’s Bryan Redpath turned down the opportunity, and there remains a scepticism about the SRU’s ability to improve the Capital club while acting in the dual, and sometimes conflicting interests of the national team and pro side.
Glasgow have undoubtedly benefited in the past from being at arm’s length to the SRU’s Murrayfield headquarters, and more successfully grown an identity supporters have warmed to, but Dodson insisted there was now no difference.
“The two clubs both have exactly the same event in terms of cash,” he said. “They have the same involvement with the SRU management, the same back-up and go through the same contracting panel, but the [player] budget has been spent more wisely in Glasgow than it has in Edinburgh.
“I accept that they [Edinburgh] probably do need a new home and we are trying to find a new home, but it is incredibly difficult to find a site in Edinburgh that can be developed.
“We are looking at every site that comes up and are talking to the council. The obvious one is Meadowbank, but there are political issues around that we are not privy to.”

by funnyExiledScot Tue 18 Jun 2013, 11:07 am

I'm both delighted and surprised that Redpath turned down the job!

by Sponsored content