Scotland's Breakdown
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Mr Fishpaste
123456789
MMaaxx
Captain_Sensible
Hollbeck Ghyll
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Scotland's Breakdown
Scotland's performance on Saturday was interesting on a few levels, but the one thing that really stood out for me was the aggression and competitiveness that we showed at the breakdown. Against a pack which was expected to bully us for 80 mins, and with our poor recent form in this area, I was amazed at the way we managed to be such a nuisance at the breakdown.
However, it also got me thinking about why Scotland haven't down this previously? Surely if we can turn the breakdown into a source of profit against South Africa, why weren't we doing it against every other team that we've come against, and instead been bemoaning our lack of physicality around the ruck (especially in the 6N)?
I'd be interested to know your thoughts, but here are a few things that I think had an impact.
- Gameplan. It was obvious that the pack were told to go and make a nuisance of themselves, and given that license, they duly obliged
- Confidence in defence. We were able to commit to the breakdown because we weren't so worried about being short on numbers. (Maybe that was the lack of threat from SA backs in the 1st half)
- Personnel. Strockosh and Swinson especially brought something that has been lacking recently
However, it also got me thinking about why Scotland haven't down this previously? Surely if we can turn the breakdown into a source of profit against South Africa, why weren't we doing it against every other team that we've come against, and instead been bemoaning our lack of physicality around the ruck (especially in the 6N)?
I'd be interested to know your thoughts, but here are a few things that I think had an impact.
- Gameplan. It was obvious that the pack were told to go and make a nuisance of themselves, and given that license, they duly obliged
- Confidence in defence. We were able to commit to the breakdown because we weren't so worried about being short on numbers. (Maybe that was the lack of threat from SA backs in the 1st half)
- Personnel. Strockosh and Swinson especially brought something that has been lacking recently
Hollbeck Ghyll- Posts : 44
Join date : 2011-09-09
Location : West coast of Scotland or Edinburgh
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
The management must have realised that if we continued to treat the breakdown like an infectious disease, SA would blow us away. Good that they recognised this, but I'd have them playing like that against every team. Disrupt the breakdown, slow down oppo ball, restrict their options and win turnovers. Continue the maniacal rucking that has served Scottish teams well in the past. Controlled brutality at every step.
Swinson and Strokosch were a huge part of that on Saturday. Swinson had one of the best debuts I have seen in a long while. I want to see the same aggression in every match from now on. None of this doziness at the start of every tournament.
Swinson and Strokosch were a huge part of that on Saturday. Swinson had one of the best debuts I have seen in a long while. I want to see the same aggression in every match from now on. None of this doziness at the start of every tournament.
Captain_Sensible- Posts : 699
Join date : 2012-05-03
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
In hindsight I am really happy the Boks were pushed as they were by he Scots. SA got more out of this game than if they had won easily by 40 points.
SA would've learnt that:
1) If Francois Louw cannot start then Brussow (or another breakdown specialist) must to work the breakdown, scrap and scavange. I feel Kolisi could also work here. Coetzee is not an option and offers little
2) SA needs a big bruising 7. While Kolisi played well and correctly received the MOTM it was evident that Botha's physical strengh (as a replacement for Alberts) was missed when hitting rucks and clearing out. Pity he went off after 4 minutes as Kolisi was not a like for like sub. I would like to see Alberts moved to 4 with Eben at 5 allowing Lappies to play at 7 as he has ben for the Cheetahs this season. I question if Alberts has the stamina to play at 7 for a whole match. He was great at 4 for the Sharks las year.
3) Bismark must play and the 10 minutes he had on he field he made a difference.
4) Vermeulan when back at 8 will also make a difference. Much more physical than Spies and a master on the ground. With Vermeulan at 8 SA will have Louw, Bismark and Vermeulan competing for the ball with Coenie added to the mix in the last 20 as an impact sub.
Therefore a full stength Bok pack of Beast, Bismark, Jannie, Eben, Alberts, Louw, Lappies and Vermeulan (with Strauss and Coenie on the bench) would not have stood back allowing the Scots to play offside,take up position right next to the Bok 9, enter from the side, flop on the ball, collapse mauls, block runners, hold back defenders etc. Where the ref failed the likes of Alberts, Bismarck, Louw and Vermeulan would've stepped in. Which is what I would expect from a Bok team. Coetzee, Spies, Kolisi, Kruger were all really really disapointing in this regard which I cannot understand (perhaps too much super15 where the refs come down hard on negaive niggly play, Scotland would've had a yellow in the first 10 minutes (or SA a number of kickable penalties) with a SH ref or even if Pascal Gauzère had reffed as he had in the SA / Italy match. It was interesting that Poite was so different in his approach to Gauzère. Same rule book, same country, same hemisphere but completely different applications.
I have no problem with how the Scots played, fair enough particularly under the circumstances, my issue is mainly that the Bok forwards were weaker than i've even seen them and did not sort matters out as usual. The ref had no control at all and essentially allowed the Scots free play but at the end of it all the Bok forwards failed.
When Scotland is at full strength I would imagine they would not have to play in such a way. They will have a seriously good pack with Grey, Grant etc added in that they will be the match for any other team. With the likes of Laidlaw, Hogg, Visser, Maitland etc in the backs Scotland is shaping up to be a very handy team indeed.
Therefore, Scotland's play this weekend worked because:
1) The Bok forwards played like girls
2) They waited for the ref to sort matters out
3) The ref never did. Scotland would have been blown off the field by most other refs.
SA would've learnt that:
1) If Francois Louw cannot start then Brussow (or another breakdown specialist) must to work the breakdown, scrap and scavange. I feel Kolisi could also work here. Coetzee is not an option and offers little
2) SA needs a big bruising 7. While Kolisi played well and correctly received the MOTM it was evident that Botha's physical strengh (as a replacement for Alberts) was missed when hitting rucks and clearing out. Pity he went off after 4 minutes as Kolisi was not a like for like sub. I would like to see Alberts moved to 4 with Eben at 5 allowing Lappies to play at 7 as he has ben for the Cheetahs this season. I question if Alberts has the stamina to play at 7 for a whole match. He was great at 4 for the Sharks las year.
3) Bismark must play and the 10 minutes he had on he field he made a difference.
4) Vermeulan when back at 8 will also make a difference. Much more physical than Spies and a master on the ground. With Vermeulan at 8 SA will have Louw, Bismark and Vermeulan competing for the ball with Coenie added to the mix in the last 20 as an impact sub.
Therefore a full stength Bok pack of Beast, Bismark, Jannie, Eben, Alberts, Louw, Lappies and Vermeulan (with Strauss and Coenie on the bench) would not have stood back allowing the Scots to play offside,take up position right next to the Bok 9, enter from the side, flop on the ball, collapse mauls, block runners, hold back defenders etc. Where the ref failed the likes of Alberts, Bismarck, Louw and Vermeulan would've stepped in. Which is what I would expect from a Bok team. Coetzee, Spies, Kolisi, Kruger were all really really disapointing in this regard which I cannot understand (perhaps too much super15 where the refs come down hard on negaive niggly play, Scotland would've had a yellow in the first 10 minutes (or SA a number of kickable penalties) with a SH ref or even if Pascal Gauzère had reffed as he had in the SA / Italy match. It was interesting that Poite was so different in his approach to Gauzère. Same rule book, same country, same hemisphere but completely different applications.
I have no problem with how the Scots played, fair enough particularly under the circumstances, my issue is mainly that the Bok forwards were weaker than i've even seen them and did not sort matters out as usual. The ref had no control at all and essentially allowed the Scots free play but at the end of it all the Bok forwards failed.
When Scotland is at full strength I would imagine they would not have to play in such a way. They will have a seriously good pack with Grey, Grant etc added in that they will be the match for any other team. With the likes of Laidlaw, Hogg, Visser, Maitland etc in the backs Scotland is shaping up to be a very handy team indeed.
Therefore, Scotland's play this weekend worked because:
1) The Bok forwards played like girls
2) They waited for the ref to sort matters out
3) The ref never did. Scotland would have been blown off the field by most other refs.
MMaaxx- Posts : 276
Join date : 2011-08-02
Location : New place every week, live between SA, Porugal and UK
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
Acuall could a Scotsman please give me what they would perceive the first15 / 22 of Scotland to be? Thanks
MMaaxx- Posts : 276
Join date : 2011-08-02
Location : New place every week, live between SA, Porugal and UK
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
Currently I'd pick:
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Swinson
6. Brown (although Strockosch is pushing him)
7. Rennie
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Seymour (Visser if he learns to tackle)
12. Scott
13. Dunbar (although I think we'll see Mark Bennett competing for a place in the midfield soon)
14. Maitland
15. Hogg
16. Welsh
17. MacArthur
18. Low
19. Hamilton
20. We have a number of back rows close to the starting positions and therefore the bench i.e Harley, Strockosch, Brown, Fusaro, Barclay, Rennie, Beattie, MacInally, Denton, Wilson and maybe a couple more
21. Cusiter
22. Heathcote
23. Lamont
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Swinson
6. Brown (although Strockosch is pushing him)
7. Rennie
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Seymour (Visser if he learns to tackle)
12. Scott
13. Dunbar (although I think we'll see Mark Bennett competing for a place in the midfield soon)
14. Maitland
15. Hogg
16. Welsh
17. MacArthur
18. Low
19. Hamilton
20. We have a number of back rows close to the starting positions and therefore the bench i.e Harley, Strockosch, Brown, Fusaro, Barclay, Rennie, Beattie, MacInally, Denton, Wilson and maybe a couple more
21. Cusiter
22. Heathcote
23. Lamont
123456789- Posts : 1841
Join date : 2011-11-13
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
Ok thanks
MMaaxx- Posts : 276
Join date : 2011-08-02
Location : New place every week, live between SA, Porugal and UK
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
I think the Scottish gameplan hinged on slowing the ruck and maul down and putting pressure on the fringes of the rucks and mauls (which they did wonderfully) the gamble being that if they succeeded here, Steyn, under pressure, would revert to his default of kick-chase (which the Scots had obviously prepared for in terms of obstructive runners and taking the high ball under pressure). They gamble worked and the game-plan very-nearly succeeded....
Mr Fishpaste- Posts : 771
Join date : 2011-07-26
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
MMaxx
A lot of good observations. The bok game is built on a massive front five and big ball carriers. Thats why they haven't needed to choose a out & out openside for years.
But given their was nothing bar parity and in fact Scotland looked stronger on the floor then thats why SA struggled for 70mins.
No surprise when Bismarck came on he turned things around... its what SA have struggled with since he and Bakkies have been absent.
Now that the pack is looking to be less physical and more athletic I think they need a Brussow type. Meyer needs to eat his words.
When Scotland are beating you in the tight.. you know you need to change your strategy. NZ would smash them to pieces with his current strategy.
Has to drop Jannie DP & Kruger too. Lazy player these days. Just going through the motions.
Coenie can play tighthead.... he's built for that position and the boks should build their pack around him.
Once Frans is back give the captaincy to Bismarck... difficult to see Schalk coming back like before.
A lot of good observations. The bok game is built on a massive front five and big ball carriers. Thats why they haven't needed to choose a out & out openside for years.
But given their was nothing bar parity and in fact Scotland looked stronger on the floor then thats why SA struggled for 70mins.
No surprise when Bismarck came on he turned things around... its what SA have struggled with since he and Bakkies have been absent.
Now that the pack is looking to be less physical and more athletic I think they need a Brussow type. Meyer needs to eat his words.
When Scotland are beating you in the tight.. you know you need to change your strategy. NZ would smash them to pieces with his current strategy.
Has to drop Jannie DP & Kruger too. Lazy player these days. Just going through the motions.
Coenie can play tighthead.... he's built for that position and the boks should build their pack around him.
Once Frans is back give the captaincy to Bismarck... difficult to see Schalk coming back like before.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
SA were spoilt with superb players like J Smith and Burger at 7 and 6. I agree that Burger should be forgoten and enjoy a two year stink in Japan to make some serious dosh.
Guys like Kruger / Kanko / Daniels / Spies are great for Super15 where the breakdown is reffed closely and the game is open and free. Not surpising that they struggle in down and dirty test matches. A team cannot rely on the ref to police matters.
I agree with HM that Louw should be picked above Brussouw these days though.
At lock I really feel that Alberts and Eben will be great with Pieter Steph du Toit off the bench and starting ocaisonally.
Guys like Kruger / Kanko / Daniels / Spies are great for Super15 where the breakdown is reffed closely and the game is open and free. Not surpising that they struggle in down and dirty test matches. A team cannot rely on the ref to police matters.
I agree with HM that Louw should be picked above Brussouw these days though.
At lock I really feel that Alberts and Eben will be great with Pieter Steph du Toit off the bench and starting ocaisonally.
MMaaxx- Posts : 276
Join date : 2011-08-02
Location : New place every week, live between SA, Porugal and UK
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
I wonder how big an influence our new forwards coach, Humphrey's had on this game? If this new aggressive, in your face approach was his doing then well played Sir.
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
I've been saying for a year now that Scotland have been weak at the breakdown. We really got bad when dean Ryan took control of the forwards. Hopefully this issue has now been sorted and if we can get out back some decent ball we might get back to being a half decent team.
Dean Ryan better not be involved in any future Scotland set ups.
Dean Ryan better not be involved in any future Scotland set ups.
tigertattie- Posts : 9569
Join date : 2011-07-11
Location : On the naughty step
Re: Scotland's Breakdown
Just watched highlights of the game as was away on Saturday. I was very impressed by the play at the breakdown from Scotland, definitely the best rucking i have seen in a few years.
Lots of aggression, technique and body angles! Why the sudden turn around??
Too many players in the past have been happy to spectate at ruck time, partly it has been due to the size and shape of the players like Kellock who isn't the best suited for rucking, Gilchrist is in a similar style.
The best players at rucking at the weekend were Swinson and strokosh. Swinson despite being a little shorter than the average lock packs a lot of power into his frame and can get lower than most 2nd rows and use that power more effectively. The same applies to Stroker, he can get low and ruck hard. Strokosh has been critisised in the past for not carrying the ball a lot but he does a lot of the tough unseen work at the breakdowns. Looked a far better balanced pack this week.
Lots of aggression, technique and body angles! Why the sudden turn around??
Too many players in the past have been happy to spectate at ruck time, partly it has been due to the size and shape of the players like Kellock who isn't the best suited for rucking, Gilchrist is in a similar style.
The best players at rucking at the weekend were Swinson and strokosh. Swinson despite being a little shorter than the average lock packs a lot of power into his frame and can get lower than most 2nd rows and use that power more effectively. The same applies to Stroker, he can get low and ruck hard. Strokosh has been critisised in the past for not carrying the ball a lot but he does a lot of the tough unseen work at the breakdowns. Looked a far better balanced pack this week.
Majestic83- Posts : 1580
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : East Lothian/Aberdeenshire
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