Will Haye v Fury Be A Breakthrough Fight For British Boxing

We don't have to go back very far to find fighters that left their mark on the British public's imagination.  Hatton and Calzaghe were regulars in sports pages of the daily nationals.  In saying this though they didn't really come close to making the imprint that Eubank/Benn/etc, McGuigan even Bruno made on the general public.  

Do we now have a match-up in Fury v Haye that could catch fire and reach out to the casual fans whose propensity to watch skill and violence might not need that much encouragement.

Froch v Kessler was a big night but I think Haye v Fury has the real potential to reach down into the doldrums and place boxing back on its former pedestal.

I wonder if Matchroom will see the bigger picture or will they just be happy to generate a £15M fight that battle hardened die hard boxing fans will pay £15 for.

Basically how big is this fight going to be ?  How much can British boxing gain from the hype?

The build up will undoubtady be huge but where it places in history and memory will depend alot on the the performance of the participants and the quality of the contest.

I hope that I'm not unduly cynical, strongback, but I feel sure that the answer to your final question above is "nil".

Hype tends to be required when the fight has sufficient question marks over it to be unable to sell itself. If you think of the most significant all-British fights of the past 40 years or so, which sold brilliantly by the way, you would include Buchanan-Watt, Conteh-Chris Finnegan, Minter-Kevin Finnegan, Stracey-Dave Boy Green, Sibson-Minter, Benn-Eubank, Benn-Watson, Watson-Eubank and Lewis-Bruno. The key point is that each fighter involved was, at worst, fringe world-class. These were fights for domestic bragging rights, simultaneously shot through with importance in a global context.

Fast forward to Haye-Fury and you have two heavyweights who have always had to use their mouths, rather than their boxing prowess, to shift tickets. On a global stage, Fury is virtually unknown, while Haye is most famous for his craven loss to Wlad and rolling around on the floor with Chisora.

I therefore can't see how British boxing will profit in a wider sense from a fight that will undoubtedly be a sell-out. Notoriety sells, of course and in addition to the backbone of proper boxing fans at the bout, there will unquestionably be the all-important quota of football supporters short of something to do, plus readers of the Daily Sport, to swell the promoter's coffers. I suspect that you have unintentionally put your finger on the truth when you suggest that Haye-Fury may "reach into the doldrums". Tango with the sewer, more like.

The fight is likely to be a nine-day wonder, which won't greatly assist, nor, hopefully, excessively damage the standing of British boxing. At least nine days will be considerably longer than the duration of the contest itself.

I can appreciate your scepticism captain and the world weariness born of decades of disappointments.  As the weather and as a result my mood is good some delicate green shoots of optimism are emerging.  I just feel this is the biggest battle of Britain in quite a while.  I know Audley and Chisora had 'battles of London' with Haye but I do think Fury provides more interest than those fights, even if some of it is novelty.   I don't give Fury much chance but I do think the fight if marketed properly can break into the public's conscious.  The fact the fight is on Sky will hinder things obviously with outlay being required.  

In terms of reward the winner will possibly be installed as a mandatory or one fight removed for it.  

If it rains tomorrow I will probably have a completely different outlook.

The fight could get the audience to make a real impact for British boxing but it would have to live up to the hype and be a very even and very exciting fight to have any lasting effect and I just can't see that happening as Fury will be pancaked before the half way stage.

Can't help feeling that although most boxing fans will look forward to it & talk about it, the general public will not, the reasons being:

It will be on Sky
Likely to be on box office.
It won't get that many column inches, and any coverage it does get will be buried well within the sports pages behind the football news.

Not one of my mates watched the Froch-Kessler fight, not a single one - ok you can say that Froch is not that well known to the average Joe but it was still a very big fight, I mean the tickets sold out in a matter of hours.

On a personal note I won't be shelling out £15 for what I believe is going to be a one-sided beating [Haye to win inside 5 rounds]. I'll either go to the pub.

Captain - I think David Haye is probably more well known for being a former undisputed cruiserweight champion and former heavyweight champion of the world and taking probably the best heavyweight of the generation 12 rounds.  He is, as things stand, the third best heavyweight in the world - so I don't see there being any questionmarks about him being world class.  Tyson Fury is another matter of course, but he does have a ranking that should be respected whether you think he is chaff or not.

I agree that this isn't a Benn-Eubank type affair, as whilst I think Haye is comparable in calibre to those two, Fury isn't and never will be.  I do, however, think this is one that a lot of people will queue up to see if only to see Tyson Fury get toppled.

Unfortunately until boxing is shown regularly ona  mainstream tv channel it won't receive the footing it deserves with other sports, and you won't have the interest around fights that there used to be in days gone by.

It will be a huge fight, no doubt about that. The build up will be more entertaining than the fight.

I don't see these 2 personalities capturing the imagination like Eubanks and company, but as a one of event I'm sure it could sell 50000 tickets.

Outside the boxing cognoscenti, BM, no-one would have a clue that Haye was a former cruiserweight champ. Most wouldn't know what a cruiserweight was. As for "taking the best heavyweight of his generation the distance" - it's not so hard for a competent boxer if you throw a dozen punches per round and concentrate on staying out of range.

I have to say that I've probably wasted enough ink on Haye's claim to be the third best heavy in the world. It MAY be true, but never once has he looked to prove it. Beating Fury won't do so either. When the dust settles, Haye will still be largely unknown outside a certain, rather modest, circle of boxing people, except as the bloke who fought an opponent outside the ring, lost widely for a heavyweight title and blamed his toe and appeared on a celebrity TV show.

British boxing will have endured a rather tawdry build-up of name-calling and blood-curdling threats, but it will remain substantially unchanged by the fight.

some more genius from the big man:

Tyson Fury ‏@Tyson_Fury 13h


@timopont @usscunningham @lennoxlewis Lennox couldn't recover after he was hurt ie that's y his losses were by ko!


 
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Tyson Fury ‏@Tyson_Fury 14h


I'd would of loved to smash Lenox Lewis if he was around now!!


 
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Tyson Fury ‏@Tyson_Fury 14h


All haters do is sit & dis people who r doing something in life! Y don't u do something with your own???????


 
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Tyson Fury ‏@Tyson_Fury 14h


I'm the greatest ever boxer from any era! Unbeatabull


 
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Tyson Fury ‏@Tyson_Fury 14h


Sorry I'm to good & no1 can beat me ! I was born to urine u all off & make u all so gel it hurts don't it! All the names & stuf u call me lov


 
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Siân ‏@cosmicsian 14h


Quite fancy @Tyson_Fury

 
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Tyson Fury ‏@Tyson_Fury 14h


@ruth07772011 thanks babe I try!


 
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Ruth ‏@ruth07772011 14h


@Tyson_Fury I love the show you put on before an after, most boxers nowadays can't string a sentence together lol, full package as u say lol

He plays the moron very well, I'll give him that.

Captain - are you a boxer yourself?

Trust me even trying to last a round against an area level heavyweight requires great skill and fitness, and of the 60 bouts that Wlad has won, 51 of those guys didn't see the final bell - so respectfully I'll disagree with you there.

I think what you're saying is a bit of a non argument - sure maybe people outside of boxing circles wouldn't know Haye was a former cruiserweight champ but surely that's true of any sport?  If you don't follow it you won't know anything about it!  What you're saying is more symptomatic of a decline in boxing interest generally, it's why on BBC sport it is in the other sports section with canoeing and volleyball rather than having a quick link with football and rugby.  So whilst I agree that boxing generally dosn't get in the viewing figures it did 20 years ago there are a myriad of factors behind that which are nothing to do with the fighters themselves and more to do with the rise of sky and PPV tv.

I think that we may be digressing slightly on the first point, BM. Suffice to say that what Haye promised in that fight and what he actually delivered were so widely at variance as to make any suggestion that his performance was somehow a commendable one seem faintly absurd.

The decline in interest in boxing is marked and, as you say, does owe much to the power of satellite TV and the corresponding lack of commitment to the sport by the terrestrial channels. The point is that this is less likely to be changed by mismatches that need to be sold by the equivalent of playground yah-boo behaviour, and more by the old idea that the cream rises to the top by fighting regularly and competitively.

When the question is posed whether a single fight can be a springboard to a renaissance in support for boxing as a whole, one would have to be fairly doubtful these days, I acknowledge. It certainly won't be Haye-Fury, however much it may appeal to the modern inhabitants of the Coliseum.

BlakkMamba wrote:Captain - I think David Haye is probably more well known for being a former undisputed cruiserweight champion and former heavyweight champion of the world and taking probably the best heavyweight of the generation 12 rounds

He's probably better know to the wider public because he was on "I'm a Celebrity"!

But, make no mistake: this would be a huge UK fight. It's not as if we get that many. I'm lost as to why anyone would be negative or cynical about it.

Several times bitten, even more times shy, Boxthis.

Frankly, if you set all the hype aside, this is nothing more than a crossroads fight in a division that is starved of talent. Yes it has British significance and the winner will certainly get a shot at the title at some point (the loser might, as well, such is the dearth of ability at heavyweight), but if it weren't for the fact that we have two of the loudest boxers on the planet involved here, I really doubt that so many column inches would be devoted to it in the Sun and other fabulous journals.

There will be the same ballyhoo as there was about Audley-Haye and Chisora-Haye. Various people will suggest that one of the participants has an excellent chance of beating the far better fighter. The likely result will prove this to be nonsense, nothing much will change after the fact and both men will almost certainly continue to puff their varying abilities to the skies, just as they have up to now.

Haye has made me a cynic, I'm afraid. I really did think at one point that he had it in him to bring something different to the heavyweight scene, and he didn't have to be Ali to do it. Fury just embodies the most cynical aspects of our reality television-addled age. I guess there's no more sense in my complaining about it than there is in an antelope complaining about there being too many lions around, but I definitely don't have to get emotionally involved in this fight.

Haye v Fury will be like Haye v Harrison all over again. The build-up will be huge, SKY will market it heavily, then Haye will win early on in a very one-sided contest.

If it was just spouting your mouth off to get a £5m payday I suspect there would be a bit more trash talking going on. I think both boxers deserve more credit than that. Anyway, I'm not suggesting we are going to see the top 2 heavyweights at it, but they're both certainly top 10.  
 
Boxing is a bit of a pantomime even at elite level so I think (without meaning to offend), there could be a bit of snobbery going on here.

Depends how you define snobbery, sean. In my view, you could draw 50,000 people to a public execution in this country if you're loud enough in publicising the event, and you could probably name your price for it, what's more.

Trash talking IS going on, almost continuously, in boxing these days. People can see that talking incessantly and insultingly, at high volume, will secure you a fight of a magnitude that your deeds don't necessarily deserve. The fact that I deplore this state of affairs doesn't necessarily make me a snob, although I suspect I may be about some things.

I'd say that boxing is a show, or an entertainment, at the highest level, by the way, as well as being a trial of the utmost severity. Pantomime is what it is sometimes reduced to by certain figures within the sport.

RE the title of the thread, I suppose it depends what kind of breakthrough you deem relevant.

Having a nobody become a celebrity on the back of being put in a reality show full of celebrities with a view to convincing them she was a celebrity was a televisual breakthrough. Sadly, it broke through the glass floor and plummeted us into a circle of hell even Dante couldn't envisage.

As Captain alludes to, Fury seems to readily embody this and it's depressing to think that sport (where we once believed that actual ability counted for something) has now become infected with X-Factor/Big Brother style wanna-be's.

That Freddie Flintoff can headline/co-headline a boxing event is no less depressing that the thought that Tyson Fury could hold a portion of the HW title.

I'd much rather Haye went about the task of securing another HW title fight without the vulgarity we're becoming accustomed to, but without it, you're in danger of becoming as unmarketable as Andre Ward.

Depressing in the extreme to think that a fighter of Andre Ward's calibre can't attract a tenth of Fury's fanbase whilst conversely possessing ten times his ability

captain carrantuohil wrote:Depends how you define snobbery, sean. In my view, you could draw 50,000 people to a public execution in this country if you're loud enough in publicising the event, and you could probably name your price for it, what's more.

Trash talking IS going on, almost continuously, in boxing these days. People can see that talking incessantly and insultingly, at high volume, will secure you a fight of a magnitude that your deeds don't necessarily deserve. The fact that I deplore this state of affairs doesn't necessarily make me a snob, although I suspect I may be about some things.

I'd say that boxing is a show, or an entertainment, at the highest level, by the way, as well as being a trial of the utmost severity. Pantomime is what it is sometimes reduced to by certain figures within the sport.

 
But for all the trash talking there are very few guaranteed £5m paydays? I don't disagree with what you say generallybut I quite like this fight. In entertainment terms the Chisora v Haye fight and this are a far more attractive proposition to me than Wladimir v Wach or another dull east european. That said, Independence Day is one of my favourite films

Again Rowley's post begs the question, "Who is to blame for the state of HW Boxing (and perhaps boxing in general)"?

The Organisations for doling out high ranking to some fighters on the back of very little?

The Promotors for taking the easy route and making uncompetitive match-ups rather than pitting the best guys together?

The Fighters for adopting the "talk loudest" approach instead of doing it "the old fashioned way"?

The Fans for swallowing whatever load is feverishly hand-shandied into their gaping maws?

Should add DaveI don't blame either Fury or Haye for this. Given a choice between either Pulev or Charr for £1m or fighting each other for five times that amount who could blame them for making such a decision. As with most things I blame the proliferation of belts, were their only one belt there would not be any fast track routes to easy title shots.

Without offending some of the old timers here, Heavyweight boxing peaked in the Ali era and slowly faded up until Lewis retired. You look at the champions over that time and it is almost exclusively Black Americans from relatively bleak backgrounds. I guess that a lot of this talent pool is identified and tapped up by NBA, Baseball and the NFL.

As such I feel it is a genuine lack of talent coming through as opposed to the riches being offered.

Wasn't Wilder only a boxer because he failed at basketball first??

TopHat24/7 wrote:Wasn't Wilder only a boxer because he failed at basketball first??

Not sure but I know the NFL have some kind of group testing thing where they have a big list of activities where you do a 40 yard dash or 35inch vertical jump etc (Super Regional Combine). They then pick out the guys who get the best stats regardless of ability or previous in the sport. The GB Discuss guy attended it and got a contract with the 49ers despite having never played the game!.

In sporting terms it is a bit like trawler fishing. They literally net all the best physical specimens and disregard the rest. Other sports don't have a chance.

Just another reason why American Football is a joke......

(we also had that lad from Manchester who was a big lump of a basketball player that got scouted on holiday because of his size and agility and was sent to Uni in the States and was 2nd round draft pick this year)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/21961331

Nice story but it makes the sport look silly IMO.


EDIT: 6'5" 22st and 40 yard dash in 5.29 secs is RIDICULOUS!!

I think the trend in being a loudmouth is just one symptom of the wider issue.  Preservation of undefeated records, mismatching, trash talking its all part of a shift in how fighters are presented.

Rather than fighters now being offered opportunities based on how good they are with their fists, its to do with looks, having an 0 in the record even if you have only fought 20 journeymen, or off the back of beating a few guys we all know are tomato cans.  The fighters are partly to blame, the promoters and managers are more to blame, the organisations have set the tone and we, the public, are most to blame for packing out an arena and paying top dollar to see Nathan Cleverley or Joe Calzaghe or whomever else knock out a binman or nightclub bouncer.

Sermon over!

Considering Haye vs Klit.......which was a superfight did zilcho then a fight between a guy that flopped at the top level against a guy that looks cumbersome probably won't do zilcho either...

Fury has Irish roots and the OP is Irish so you can't blame him for being excited..

The Irish root thing baffles me. Are all travellers Irish or are travellers just pikey Irishman?

As long as he's just Irish and not Irish American I'm happy..

All "Travellers" have Irish roots. Yet Gypsies are from Romania/Eastern Block. Very different cultures, but often confused, and Travellers will take full advantage, yet Gypsies hate the association.

My missus is Irish, she calls them "Tinkers"

No idea.

Had no idea you were married Jabby...........Is she alright or is she prone to clinch and open to a combination downstairs ??

The best being overlooked in place someone more marketable is not something new in boxing like some would have you believe. Back in the "good old days" the best fighters could fight their way through the rankings the old fashioned way and still not get a shot at the title because of reasons much worse than how marketable they are.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:All "Travellers" have Irish roots. Yet Gypsies are from Romania/Eastern Block. Very different cultures, but often confused, and Travellers will take full advantage, yet Gypsies hate the association.

My missus is Irish, she calls them "Tinkers"

No idea.

From wiki:

A tinker was originally an itinerant tinsmith, who mended household utensils. The word is attested from the 13th century and may be of imitative origin.^[1] Some travelling people and Gypsies adopted this lifestyle and the name was particularly associated with indigenous Irish and Scottish Travellers. However, this usage is disputed and considered offensive by some.^[1] Tinkering is therefore the process of adapting, meddling or adjusting something in the course of making repairs or improvements, a process also known as bricolage.

What annoys me about Fury is that he seems to think everybody is interested in a war of words !!!

"It'll be massive as we've got two of the biggest mouths in the sport".........

Well I'll be honest I'm interested in Boxing not Boxers pretending to threaten and call eachother stupid names!!

I'd watch the wrestling otherwise.....

Fury has been watching to many Ali dvds..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Had no idea you were married Jabby...........Is she alright or is she prone to clinch and open to a combination downstairs ??

No mate - quite nice actually. Irish wives are the best you can get (so I'm told.....by her....)

To be sure..to be sure

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Considering

Fury has Irish roots and the OP is Irish so you can't blame him for being excited..

Your 45 years old and this is what you've succumbed to. Get a life.

This could be another nail in British boxing as it could  easily be as big a stinker as haye vs harrison. I hope not, but i am more nervous than excited by the propect (not signed yet) fight

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Considering

Fury has Irish roots and the OP is Irish so you can't blame him for being excited..

Your 45 years old and this is what you've succumbed to.  Get a life.

I'm not 45.........You rate Harrison but not Haye..Mate you're an Irish Steffan..you don't see it but we do !!...Getting a life is my problem not yours...now give me a kiss!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mate you're an Irish Steffan

What is that supposed to mean?

Painfully nationalist beyond reason?

TopHat24/7 wrote:Painfully nationalist beyond reason?

Possibly. Or also maybe slightly nationalist but likes to add a bit of tongue in cheek humour and play on it a bit just see which dummies get wound up by it and also get quite a lot of stick back but take it on the chin?

Lol yeh, something like that.....

I like Steffan, makes me laugh considerably sometimes.

Out of all the patriotic Americans I know who live in England, support Manchester City, watch darts and always comment on UK current affairs...Truss is my favourite

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I like Steffan, makes me laugh considerably sometimes.

Feel the love JM