CM Punk's magical time machine! (Inspired by Kid Vicious)

Reading through the forum I saw a complaint by KV that there was no point having "the best of" competitions because they always end up with Mr CM Punk winning them...he also stated that we here on V2 only really like 4 other superstars and no-one else has a look in...as a fan of Punk maybe I am guilty of this but I like to think there's a rounded support on the forums. His point that caught my attention was this...he believes that back in the day CM Punk would have been nothing but a jobber to the stars and wouldn't be seen as one of the top guys, I was intrigued by this and it got me wanting to know what you guys thought.

If CM Punk was wrestling in the Attitude Era...would he have made it? Obviously this is all conjecture but lets get some debate going...would he still be "The Best In The World!?". Also what about the other top guys? Cena, Bryan, The Shield, Zack Ryder, Ryback, Yoshi Tatsu, Fandango, Barrett, Cesaro...would they have done any better or even made it past jobbing to Val Venis on heat!?

LOL, love it. I will have my two cents a little later this afternoon.

I think someone like Cesaro would have do e well in the hogan era although he would have been given a foreigner gimmick (like h has now). 

Ryback would have been big in Wcw who loved their massive jakked look. 

I think Cena  would have been big in the attitude era if he was the size he is now (not like his debut. Angle). He would have needed a better gimmick than jumping John though. Might have worked with his thuganomics gimmick.

I think Punk would have made it in the Attitude Era, perhaps not to the level that he has today as the norm then was at least 6ft 5 and built whilst he's a scrawny runt but it did still have the likes of Angle, Jericho, Foley etc involved and they're all either of smaller frame or not the look of a Vince star.

Seth Rollins could slot straight into Jeff's role. Dean Ambrose at 6ft 4in and with his mic skills could have been a great foil for Austin.

My own personal opinion is Punk would have worked really well in the Attitude Era, can you imagine him v Stone Cold in Austin's glory days? The gimmicks clash perfectly and they're both awesome on the mic.

Bryan would have been perfect for the Ruthless Aggression Era...picture this match, best 2 out of 3 falls Triple Threat...Daniel Bryan, Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit.

Yeah Bryan was perfect for the Toothless Regression era. Jack Thwagger too could have excelled there.

I think Punk would have definitely been a star in those days, he might not have reached Austin/Rock's levels but I think he'd definitely been as big as somebody like Jericho. Punk has the ability to play so many different roles, all very well. I think his ability to touch upon the current popular area of problems with WWE is very similar to Austin connecting with the 90s desire to stick it to your boss.

Fandango would have fit in during most of the era's...they all seem to have a couple of weird gimmicks where the person seemed to have a second job.

Just imagine an over the top battle royal between Fandango, The Repo Man, Big Boss Man, Nails, The Barber Brutus Beefcake, IRS, Duke Droese, The Godfather, The Mountie, T.L. Hopper, Simon Dean, Isaac Yankem, The Goon and Val Venis

Ryback would have been fine in the 80's cause he is a big guy and Vince traditionally loves big guys.

Cena would have been ok in attitude era bu only if he had his thuganomics gimmick. just wouldnt work the way his chracter is today.

Ziggler might have been on in attitude, and can see him being a Ric Flair like heel in the 80's

Bryan might do ok in the 80's as one of the work horses so possible IC title but wouldnt get the top spot due to his size.

Could also see the same for CM Punk but his tattoos etc might not get him over.
You only have to look at the attitude Nash had  during his feud. "You look like a crack addict, you need to go back to the gym and hit the weights" etc I feel that would be the attitude of the Guys in 80's
With the attitude era is can see him doing well

Kid Viscous has good consistency

I don't think there are many guys currently in WWE who would have been big in the 80s, Big Show would have been for sure, Ryback possibly but I could see him being a Lex Luger type figure...I think Cena could have been as well.

I think Cena would gotten over during the Attitude era as well, he'd be able to make more edgy jokes and would have gotten over with the teen market I'd have thought. I don't know why anybody thinks the Thugonomics gimmick is good, if somebody turned up next week on Raw doing something like that it'd be ripped apart. It was a ridiculous gimmick.

I think the thing with the Thugonomics gimmick was that overall it was sh!tty...it was his attitude that was good about it...basically, get rid of the spinners, the rapping and the silly costumes and just keep the thuggy attitude.

Watch the promo between him and JR at Wrestlemania 21 (I think) his take no names attitude is pretty awesome and you can see why people got behind him.

well one thing i used to like about john cena was 5 questions, really entertaining had good attitude etc and was edgey at times.

Although Punk certainly has the attributes to succeed in other era’s I think it’s hard to say whether anyone would have succeeded in other eras because an era is just that – an era.

Imagine someone in 1990 talking about Hustle, Loyalty and Respect. They’d look at you like you were an alien. Imagine someone in 1990 talking about Vincent K McMahon’s imaginary brass rings and being a spoke on the wheel. Again, nobody would have a clue. I’m not even sure his brass rings existed in 1990. Anyway, these are the things which made Cena and Punk who they are today so for me its hard to imagine their gimmicks in other eras where they might not be understood as well. A wrestling era changes with society itself and the superstars’ gimmicks are reflected in that. For instance, put Steve Austin in 1990 flipping the bird, drinking beer and swearing on live tv. Wouldn’t be received that well would it? Sure, a lot of guys have the talent to succeed in other eras but whether their gimmicks would is questionable.

Daniel Bryan would have had to have had that little bit of luck that something so innocuous like a "YES" chant would get over so huge. But if that caught on in the Attitude Era then he would have been hugely over cos the crowds were far more up for it back then, although he would never have reached the top levels. What with Kane being what he is and was I could still see them having had a ridiculous tag team.

Sheamus would have thrived early 90s as the big muscly Irishman Vince always wanted.

CM Punk and his time machine. If he'd have taken that baby up to 88 and ended up in '88, I don't think he'd have even been looked at twice by the WWF. No chance. He's far too small for a start. His in-ring work is respectable, but he's no Bret Hart, who struggled to get a decent singles push back then, despite being a 10 year veteran at that point. And his mic skills, whilst admirable, just aren't a patch on the likes of Jesse Ventura, Jake Roberts or Macho Man. In-ring ability didn't guarantee anything back then. He'd have been wasted making Hercules look good.

Lets suppose he goes back to the Attitude Era. I still think he'd have struggled. Nothing other than injury was going to break the Austin, Rock, HHH strangle-hold of that time. Even if he could, he'd still have to get through a newly main-eventing Mick Foley, a new found faith WWF had in Undertaker, and the big money signings of Big Show and Jericho. Kurt Angle would've remained their top rookie because of his amateur pedigree, and Benoit, Guerrero and eventually the rest of the WCW guys arrived as established stars. I reckon with his talent he'd have gone down a similar route to Edge. Maybe thrown into a tag team and given the occasional mid-card title until the roster dried up circa 2003/4. Maybe, just maybe, he'd have been given the Eddie Guerrero title push and he might have slowed the meteoric rise of John Cena. But I doubt it.

To me CM Punk has seen most of his career as the best of a bad bunch. Kinda like Shawn Michaels was in the mid 90's. That's not to say he's not a talented performer, but to me he's definitely enjoying a career of being in the right place at the right time.

I think you're doing Punk an injustice to be honest KV. To call his in-ring work 'respectable' and mic work 'admirable' isn't accurate in my eyes.

Mr Hogan's Black Cat wrote:I think you're doing Punk an injustice to be honest KV. To call his in-ring work 'respectable' and mic work 'admirable' isn't accurate in my eyes.

Well it's all to do with opinion. I can watch him and honestly say he's the best out there right now. And maybe when his career comes to an end I can reassess his position as one of the GOAT, but for now I don't see anything that's makes me feel I'm watching true greatness. As an all rounder he's good. But he's not a body beautiful and never will be, his in-ring ability is average compared to many that have had their time in the squared circle, and his mic skills aren't a patch on the unscripted diatribes of the 1980's. He's good for now, but when someone steps up, and I mean truly steps up to replace John Cena, he'll be pushed to one side much like Bob Backlund was when Hulkamania started to run wild.

Adding to that, it also what you deem as being successful and ‘making it’. In the late 80’s when the IC title was prestigious, and if Punk featured heavily in the IC scene at the time, that surely in itself would have been deemed a success. You didn’t have to be a world champion in them days to have made it in the business. Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, Roddy Piper & even Ric Flair aren’t huge men yet all had huge careers in that era. But again it all comes down to gimmick, nobody had tattoos back then so trying to picture CM Punk and his image amongst these great men is difficult.

You also hit a key point KV when you mention replacing John Cena...WWE won't let that happen permanently but if you look back to M.I.T.B 11 he was given the title for longer than anyone else in the modern era...if that's not being given a bigger push than most people I don't know what is...being the biggest in the sport doesn't mean being the best.

I think as H points out, you almost have to see how their gimmick would adapt to an earlier era, or who would they have been like...I agree that Punk wouldn't have really got anywhere in the 80's...tattoos and breaking character just didn't suit those days.

It of course depends where you place him in each era. If you use this mythical time machine to take him back to the Attitude Era you probably would plonk him near the start so he could build up to that major role rather than in the middle of the SCSA Rock HHH axis. I dont doubt however he'd have had memorable feuds with the likes of Foley and Jericho.

Breaking news!...While Punk was walking around the Attitude Era he left the keys in the time machine...which Attitude Era star would benefit the most from coming forward to the present day era.

My first pick is X Pac, I really think his size let him down and he had more potential than they let him have.

Chris Jericho so he could tell Chris Jericho that hes not putting anyone "over" anymore

Wrestling is a circus and always will be. By that, I mean the secrets of the trade are past down father to son. Would Curt Hennig have landed the Mr Perfect gig if it weren't for Larry? Would Bret Hart have gone as far if it wasn't for Stu? Modern day, I think we all know that Randy Orton's personality would've halted his progress before we even saw him on screen if it weren't for daddy Bob. CM Punk has managed to break the glass ceiling of wrestling. And he's done that through talent. But being the best now doesn't automatically make him one of the best ever. I use Bob Backlund as an example for two reasons. One, I'm trying to be impartial by taking a swipe at a past star, and two, he was a long term champ but kinda sucked. Great in the ring, no doubt, but had the personality of a potato.

Would CM Punk have got the IC title in the 1980's? Simply, no. If Harley Race couldn't get a sniff of a WWF title back then, Punk wouldn't have. Although why Honky Tonk held it for so long is a mystery. NWA would've maybe been kinder to him. They appreciated talent over looks. It would've been interesting to see some matches with a peak Flair, Steamboat and Magnum TA. Whether they'd have done much with him though, I'm not sure. I reckon he'd have gone the same way as Rick Martel. Good for the AWA title, and then a decent push before becoming jobber to the stars in the big two.

xviperx wrote:Breaking news!...While Punk was walking around the Attitude Era he left the keys in the time machine...which Attitude Era star would benefit the most from coming forward to the present day era.

My first pick is X Pac, I really think his size let him down and he had more potential than they let him have.

I'd be tempted to say Gangrel. Providing he could lay off the McDonalds. With Undertaker as good as retired there's gotta be an opening for a new dark side star.

I'd say Brian Pillman

Yeah, but that heart attack was waiting for him whatever era he was in. If he'd have lived he'd may well have been in the title mix back then anyways (depending on how well his leg healed up). But then, he may have run back to WCW after the screw job.

I think Punk could easily adapt, I still think of anybody in WWE right now, Punk could cover the most roles and I think that would be reflected in the Attitude era, I think he'd have found his niche and gotten over. I think he's just as talented as Jericho, Foley, Angle and Triple H and so could have gotten over just as they did.

I think the key thing is he seems to have a brain for no only the wrestling side of things but also the business, he's also not scared to say what he thinks and mix things up backstage...key things!

Lets suppose Punk heads back to an era where most any wrestler from any era could slip right in.. 1995. But what god-awful gimmick would he have to try to work with? Postman Punk? Phil "The Baker" Brooks? "Mr Nanny" Phillip Brooks?

Well if he did go bad and they gave him a work based gimmick....with his look they'd give him a Rock Star gimmick or even call him the Tattooist!

But would they? He'd be counting his lucky stars if he landed a Rock Star gimmick in 1995!

Look how many fell flat on their face in that time
"Vinnie, great news! We've signed Tony Anthony!"
"Fantastic. Make him a plumber"
"Uh... ok, what about Barry Windham? Shall we just run with the Horseman type character?"
"What man, are you mad? People don't want to see that. Make him a peeping tom"
"Dare I ask what you want to do with Ron Simmons?"
"Blue moon man type thing. Think Max Moon, but less homo-erotic"

I see Punk landing the Rad Radford gimmick if he's lucky.

Not a big Punk fan are you? haha

I do actually like him. Honest. He's a future HOFamer, and one of the most talented guys out there. Not necessarily number one, but up there. He'd have a job in any era I'm sure, but I would question where he'd be on those past rosters. Being number one in one era doesn't mean you'd main event another.

Unless you're Hogan and you force it haha

That's actually a good point. Would Hogan main event each era? And lets suppose it's Hogan as he popped up during Rock N Wrestling heyday that takes the DeLorean.

Would he have got over in a era before the wrestling world was ready for the cartoonish characters? The territories preferred the every man, the local tough guy. And with kayfabe, it was still real, rather than the 80's kayfabe of "i think it's fake, but they say it's real so it must be". Would a chest waxing, fake tanning, gym loving pussycat come across as a genuine competitor that could take down a real man like Bruno Sammartino? It could've blown kayfabe apart.

Then at the other end, The Attitude Era. The wrestling world had grown tired of the cartoons. If we're supposing Hogan never existed, but a Macho Man and Warrior still did, would an 80's throwback have done much in an era dominated by Austin and The Rock. His size would've got him somewhere, and his charisma a little further. But the fans may well have been tired of that type of character which could've halted his progress at, hmm, Kane's level?

I think it's pretty much impossible to judge that one, I think people forget that Austin and The Rock, the undisputed biggest guys in wrestling during that time, were very cartoonish characters. They weren't at all realistic or down to earth, they were blown up, exaggerated characters. They might have blown up different characteristics than the likes of Hogan and Warrior but the idea of larger than life characters still very much existed.

The reason Hogan burnt out before his heel turn was because people were sick of it having gone through over a decade of watching the same character. Had Hogan's character turned up in 1996, that might have been a different story. Had nobody filled Hogan's shoes in the past, then the All-American hero may have been just as popular in the late 90s as it was in the 1980s. WWE might have taken a different route altogether and focused on the next generation of children rather than the adults and teenagers who had been watching wrestling in the 1980s.

Ok so how about todays Mark Henry went into the time machine? The first thing he did was kill the Sexual Chocolate guy before any of them horrendous storylines had a chance to play out and attempted to put the stars of the Attitude Era into the Hall Of Pain. How do you think he owuld get on? Baring in mind he could have been a lot more vicious and a lot less PG...