Club Fitting Poll

There have been loads of posts about the pro’s and con’s of club fitting, club fitters, what determines a ‘proper club fit’ and the difference between high volume, mass marketed equipment and some of the lesser known stuff out there. I read this a while ago from Tom Wishon, who is a well respected designer, and golf club guru. He’s got more designs patented than any other golf club manufacturer, and makes a fortune from them each year, as most of the big boys have to pay him to incorporate his stuff.. So the question is do you believe this, or are you in the camp that says anything off the shelf is just as good. This should send some to sleep and stir up the rest of the natives, but interested to know what people think.

See The Original Here

MYTH 1. Modern golf clubs hit farther than clubs of even a few years ago.

Now, this makes perfect sense doesn't it? I mean, the march of progress and all that.

What with all the new technology—the new metals and new designs—these clubs would HAVE to
be better!

Wrong!Most of what you are seeing is a marketing gimmick I call the "Vanishing Loft Disease."

Each year, in order to say their clubs hit farther, the club companies have been lowering the loft and
increasing the length of their clubs without telling you.

This year's 6-iron will hit as far as your old 5-iron because, if you measure the loft, it IS a 5-iron—or used
to be, anyway.

MYTH 2. The longer my driver is, the farther I'll be able to hit it.

Logic would tell you that the longer the club, the longer the swing arc will be, and the faster the head will travel.

And the faster the head travels, the farther the ball will go, right?

Wrong!Testing has shown that the average gain in distance between a 43 and a 45-inch driver is a whopping ONE-YARD.

The real problem is that the longer the driver is, the harder it is to control. So, with today’s standard drivers bought “off the rack,” you’re also buying a higher percentage of off-center hits, which will get you 10 additional yards of misdirection.

The average PGA Tour player uses a driver that is 44.5” long. If they could swing a 45-inch, they would. They can't, so what are the chances YOU can.

TIP: The biggest single factor in driver accuracy is the length of the club. Get your driver checked out to make sure it's the right length for you. Most golfers have drivers that are WAY too long.

MYTH 3. The lower the loft on my driver, the farther the ball will go.

Most amateur golfers believe that if you're hitting a nice long, low screamer, the ball is going to go farther than if it's some kind of "pop-up.” But is that true?

Wrong!The distance a driver can be hit is a function of the loft of the club head and the speed with which the head is traveling. The lower the swing speed, the higher the loft needs to be.

Imagine you are squirting a garden hose and someone cuts back on the water pressure. What's the first thing you do to get increased distance? Exactly. You RAISE the angle.

If you have a nice new 9- or 10-degree driver, you'd better have a 115 mph swing speed (with control) to go with it. Otherwise, you'll need more loft to hit the ball YOUR maximum distance.

TIP: Go see a professional clubmaker who can measure your swing speed. He or she will be able to tell you what driver loft is right for you.

MYTH 4. The bigger the head, the better

They're everywhere—driver heads that are approaching the size of your car's oil filter. Bigger MUST be better, right? Or else why would everyone be making them that way?

Wrong!Club companies can make all the oversized heads they want, but when they do they also have to make the faces thicker so they don't violate the USGA rules. This washes out any real advantage of the larger head.

Now, the larger head MIGHT allow you to hit the ball a little higher, and MIGHT provide some additional resistance to twisting, and MIGHT give a person more "confidence." And it MIGHT be... that it's all a marketing gimmick again.

TIP: When you chose a driver, go to a professional clubmaker who can offer you a wide variety of heads, of all different sizes, from which to choose.

MYTH 5. I play a stiff shaft; it says so right on it.

When I buy a bottle of pop that says it has 16 ounces in it; it better have 16 ounces. When I buy a car that says it has a 2-liter engine; it better have a 2-liter engine. Why would golf club shafts be any different?

Wrong!The "S" (or R, or X, or L) you see on your shaft is completely meaningless.

The problem is that there is no agreement in the industry as to what constitutes an "S" (or R, or X, or L) flex. One company's "S" is another company's "R," which is another company's "X." There is not even agreement WITHIN any given company's various lines of shafts.

TIP: If you want to know the true "flex" of your shaft go see a professional clubmaker who can measure its "frequency" or, better yet, its "shaft profile." He can also measure YOU to see what stiffness is correct for your swing and which shafts have that actual stiffness.

MYTH 6. The newer clubs have larger "sweetspots

This only stands to reason, doesn't it? If the clubhead is larger, the sweetspot must be larger. Besides, isn't that what they tell you in just about every ad you read or see?

Wrong!The "sweetspot" (officially known as the Center of Gravity) is a point that is about the size of the sharp end of a pin. It can't get larger. It can't get smaller. It just... is.

The "larger sweetspot" you see advertised is (once again) a marketing term and has no basis in reality.

Now, what they MIGHT be talking about is that the head, because of its size, might have a greater resistance to twisting if/when you hit the ball off-center. That could be true, but it has nothing to do with the "sweetspot" being larger.

TIP: There are dozens if not hundreds of clubhead designs. Some of the advertising is true; some is not. Let your professional clubmaker help you sort out which is which.


MYTH 7. Women's clubs are designed for women.

I just bought a set of Lady Shazam 3000's for my wife. How could they be anything BUT ladies clubs? I mean, even the lettering was pink!

Wrong!It pains me to say this but, by and large; women get a raw deal when it comes to clubs.

Take a look at the loft, head weight and design of the clubheads on the ladies set you just bought. Now compare them to the men's set from the same company. Do you see any difference (besides the pink lettering)?

Now, it's possible you might; but in far too many cases you won't. Many if not most club companies do not feel there is a large enough ladies market to justify a separate design and casting process. The results are clubs that will not work properly with most women's swings.

TIP: Come on! Have your wife properly fitted by a professional clubmaker.

MYTH 8. I'll just cut down a set for my kid. That's good enough.

My dad cut down one of his old sets and that was good enough for me to learn. If it was good enough for me, it's good enough for my son or daughter.

Wrong!A cut down set will almost assuredly be too heavy, too stiff, the wrong loft, the wrong lie and probably the wrong length. Other than that, it will be just fine.

Sure, it makes sense to locate an old (preferably junior) club to see if the interest is really there. But as soon as he or she starts asking for another bucket at the driving range, or complains because you are leaving the range "too soon," it's time to get him or her fitted.

TIP: Most professional clubmakers can custom make a set of junior clubs for far less than the cost of an "off the shelf" set.

MYTH 9. My club is just like the one Tiger uses.

Hey, I see the ball caps and shirts the pros are wearing. I can see what they are taking out of their bags. That's the reason I bought my current set. If those clubs are good enough for Tiger, they're certainly good enough for me

Wrong!Despite what you think you see on TV, you will probably never get within a country mile of owning a set of clubs that are "just like" the ones the pros use. (Nor, frankly, would you want to.)

Their clubs are to your clubs, as a NASCAR racer is to the Chevy that's in your driveway. They might have the same general shape, but all comparison ends there.

I have built sets of clubs for several PGA pros. In fact, I did Payne Stewart's last set, which took me over 300 HOURS to build. And you want to compare THAT with what you just grabbed off the shelf?

TIP: Forget the advertising hype. Find a professional clubmaker that can fit a set of clubs to YOUR specific needs.

MYTH 10. Any club that's not a "brand name" is junk.

There are all sorts of "knock-offs" and "clones" out there. I've read enough to know to stay away from them and stick to the "brand names."

Wrong (Probably)If you are talking about exact copies of existing clubs, then you're right. Besides being illegal, from a quality standpoint, they're usually junk.

If you are referring to anything that is not a "brand name" as a "knock-off to be avoided," then you are wrong. Some of those "non-brand name" companies produce some of the finest, most innovative, highest quality clubs in the world!

TIP: Be sure to look for a professional club maker - I'll tell you straight up. I'll stack my clubheads against any brand name you care to mention—any day, any time, anywhere, and measured by any criteria.

MYTH 11. I was "custom fitted" at the driving range (or retail store, or pro shop).

I've already been custom fitted. I mean, there was all this fancy computerized equipment and the guy seemed to know what he was talking about.

MAYBE YOU WERE AND MAYBE YOU WEREN'TThere are all sorts of people out there claiming to do "custom fitted" golf clubs, and maybe you were tested on some very impressive equipment. But, you are making two assumptions.

First, you are assuming that the person who was looking at the output of all that equipment actually knew what the heck he was looking at.

Second, even if he did, did he sell you clubs that were built from the ground up for your swing, or were they simply chosen from among the sets he happened to have with him in the store at that moment?

TIP: A professional clubmaker is not limited to a handful of options that his store happens to be carrying. He or she has access to literally thousands of clubhead, shaft and grip designs from all over the world

MYTH 12. Custom fit golf clubs are only for really good golfers.

Okay, I understand why professional golfers have to be perfectly fitted. I can even understand why some of my low handicap friends would want to do so. But I am just a weekend hacker. My game doesn't justify having a set that is that fancy.

Wrong!As a matter of fact, you have it exactly backwards. Pros and low handicappers could play golf with just about anything. Over the years they have grooved their swings to the point where they can almost instantly adjust to almost any equipment problem or difference.

Excellent talking point Doc .. just one small point. I'm assuming it's copy and pasted from somewhere else. Just to cover our backsides here, please as least edit the post and give credit to the URL where you got it from.

I'm sure this will get some debate going though, so nice one!

Nah, it's obviously something he just knocked up in his tea break

Some interesting points raised in there though.

OK I've added a link to the original post just to give credit to the original - seems to have come from someone called Tom Wishon Golf Technology

Without going into great detail, because frankly i can't be bothered, i don't agree with much of that at all.

"I have built sets of clubs for several PGA pros. In fact, I did Payne Stewart's last set, which took me over 300 HOURS to build".

MMMmmm, really? What did he do? Hand carve the heads and go to the South American forests to personally extract the rubber for the grips?

eldest A couple of links to who Wishon is

http://www.diamondgolf.co.uk/wishonabout.html

http://www.golfgearselect.com/tom-wishon-bio/

http://golfdashblog.com/tom-wishon-truth-golf-equipment/

http://www.mygolfspy.com/how-to-become-a-golf-club-designer/

http://www.wishongolf.com/

A very interesting read that Doc good post. I would presume the 300hours were not spent entirely just putting clubs together but more like time measuring Payne individually test shaft frequency, flex and torque, grinding the clubs to sit right and tweaking lofts and can easily see how that would all take time as after Payne tested no doubt there'd be many little adjustments to be made.

But its for many of those reasons above I do not buy off the shelf standards or off the shelf recommended stiif, X or any other stock shaft. Some people will be fine with off the shelf models but I've been having mine fitted for years and each time I change clubs I get re-fitted as things change and what was right for me 2 years ago may not be right for me now. For example the driver I have now I tested with the stock shaft in stiff, and x stiff
But they were not stiff enough so I tried the Aldila Rip in same flexes and went with the RIP Xstiff it was only after a friend of mine who is a pro and a master club fitter tested the frequency of all the shafts I tried and found the stock shaft for my driver in X and Stiff turned out to be a Senior shaft and a regular! So always be wary of what the shelves offer

Mav thats why I went back to my guy a couple of months ago because it seemed my driver had 'dropped off'. It turned out that my swing speed had dropped over the last 2-years and had lost me distance, so he changed my shaft and got my swing speed back and it gave me extra big yards as well. many players would have gone out and bought a new driver, when in reality it just needed reshafting, or the lye/loft tweaking.

My old clubs which were bought off the shelf and were not bad, turned out to be a joke. The frequency test showed that I had 3 different flexes which answered the question why I always struggled with certain irons. My driver which was 10 degree turned out to be 13 degree and my 5-iron should have been stamped 6-iron etc. This is not unusual as you would expect from mass produced equipment and not good quality control. I fully appreciate that many, many golfers will have no problems with anything they buy off the shelf and get great enjoyment out of them. I just believe that if you are going to spend a lot of wedge on clubs that you should get what you pay for, and not something that should be reported to trading standards. Most players will have a certain club they struggle with, or feel uncomfortable with or not confident. That club may well have the wrong shaft or loft etc even though it looks the same it probably isn't

Something that amuses me about that Wishon guy. He goes on and on about seeing a professional fitter. About how good he and how he makes sets for pros. About how off the rack clubs don't fit and static fitting tools aren't appropriate...

And yet there is a static shaft fit tool on his site and you can order from an online store according to what you think might work.

LondonJonnyO wrote:Something that amuses me about that Wishon guy. He goes on and on about seeing a professional fitter. About how good he and how he makes sets for pros. About how off the rack clubs don't fit and static fitting tools aren't appropriate...

And yet there is a static shaft fit tool on his site and you can order from an online store according to what you think might work.

And? That makes everything else he says irrelevant?

Voted yes, on balance. I do, however, think it's largely over-rated.

navyblueshorts wrote:

LondonJonnyO wrote:Something that amuses me about that Wishon guy. He goes on and on about seeing a professional fitter. About how good he and how he makes sets for pros. About how off the rack clubs don't fit and static fitting tools aren't appropriate...

And yet there is a static shaft fit tool on his site and you can order from an online store according to what you think might work.

And? That makes everything else he says irrelevant?

Not neccesarily but i take LJs point, he seems to want his cake and eat it...

Rossa wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

LondonJonnyO wrote:Something that amuses me about that Wishon guy. He goes on and on about seeing a professional fitter. About how good he and how he makes sets for pros. About how off the rack clubs don't fit and static fitting tools aren't appropriate...

And yet there is a static shaft fit tool on his site and you can order from an online store according to what you think might work.

And? That makes everything else he says irrelevant?

Not neccesarily but i take LJs point, he seems to want his cake and eat it...

My overwhelming thought about the whole article was 'well you would say that, wouldn't you?'. I honestly thought it could go on and on;

'Myth 456 - Big feet means big dong - Wrong; if you really want to see a big dong, seek out a professional club fitter.'

SJ I agree with both you and LJ.

I used this piece because Wishon is probably the best known fitter around. You can read something similar on every club fitters web-site, including my fitter's. I just think that looking beyond the self publicity there's a lot of sense to what he, or any club fitter try and get over.

One of the best things of Wishon's that I read (Couldn't find it) was when he was asked about the difference between cast and forged irons. If I remember correctly he said something along the lines of: The average golfer who has clubs fitted correctly will not see much difference. Forgings have a certain feel and sound and carry a bit more kudos. If I was trying to get into the game and had a certain budget, and had a choice of buying a well known brand within my budget, and a not so well known bespoke club. I would without doubt go for the nor so well known cast clubs which were fitted. The results would be chalk and cheese, and assist the player in his goals of game improvement. He said that if he had to carry his bags he would get cast clubs because the noise of forged clubs rattling around are different and annoying - or buy head covers.

navyblueshorts wrote:

LondonJonnyO wrote:Something that amuses me about that Wishon guy. He goes on and on about seeing a professional fitter. About how good he and how he makes sets for pros. About how off the rack clubs don't fit and static fitting tools aren't appropriate...

And yet there is a static shaft fit tool on his site and you can order from an online store according to what you think might work.

And? That makes everything else he says irrelevant?

No. Although I think that he is very self serving in respect of the way he preaches one thing and is still happy to take advantage of people via those tools. As per Rossas statement... He wants both ends of the stick.

I should also point out that I disagree with a lot of his statements or myths. For example that myth about an extra inch giving you additional yardage. Whilst it may have been proven (and I would prefer that the proof were cited when statements like that are made) that an additional inch is only worth a yard I believe that an additional inch for some players will improve their ability to freely swing thus increasing speed and distance over and above a "proven" value. That said I prefer a shorter driver myself. Despite being 6 foot 1

Rossa wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

LondonJonnyO wrote:Something that amuses me about that Wishon guy. He goes on and on about seeing a professional fitter. About how good he and how he makes sets for pros. About how off the rack clubs don't fit and static fitting tools aren't appropriate...

And yet there is a static shaft fit tool on his site and you can order from an online store according to what you think might work.

And? That makes everything else he says irrelevant?

Not neccesarily but i take LJs point, he seems to want his cake and eat it...

What's the point having a cake if you can't eat it !!! Worlds most pointless saying that one!

But I take the point about how he is saying one thing and offering another. Club fitting when done right is an exact science and unless you really know what your doing as a fitter you could potentially do more harm to someones game than good. That's why it
S important to look into who is fitting you before being fitted and ensure you have faith in them

Mav, I thought 'hypocrite' was a bit stong...

Lets say that he has his principals and beliefs in club fitting, but he'll ignore them when presented with cash via the internet...

On the whole club fitting thing... i thnk there a place for having some basic stuff like, grip thickness and maybe length... but i'm off 17 and my swing speed can change, my swing plane, posture can all alter over time as i improve and/or change...

So unless you can afford to change your clubs or at least shafts and spec on a regular basis to keep pace with your evolving swing then i think it seems a bit pointless...

If you're someone who has been playing for years and has no desire to change thier swing (that's not to say they have no desire to improve) or a very good player with a consistent action them i can see the benefits...

"So unless you can afford to change your clubs or at least shafts and spec on a regular basis to keep pace with your evolving swing then i think it seems a bit pointless..."

Rossa, I don't think anyones mentioned changing shafts on a regular basis. In my case the only shaft I've changed was my driver. From being fitted over 2-years ago I lost 5mph, and the tolerance for the old shaft was stringent, so anything +/- 5mph killed it. The rest of my kit is ok as there were tolerances built in to allow for anything like that. I'm also over 50 yo so my swing is only going downhill now. can't see anyone in there 30's for example needing to do anything unless their swing changes drastically, by maybe speeding it up etc.

Just as an example. Mrs Doc was fitted a couple of years ago, and she only had a half backswing as she was learning. Recently she's been using a full swing and getting great results, but I actually went back to the fitter with her, where he checked her out. he could have said we need to change this and that, but didn't. he actally said that as she was a beginner, he out enough tolerance into the shaft selection to allow for her increase in swing, and 'smash factor' etc. He's happy she's a long way off needing any tweaks yet.

Thats kind of my point though, in a way...

Custom fitting is sold as getting the perfect set up for you... so if you change a bit in some way presumably you would need refitting? Or not as the shafts have a decent tolerance in any case and you're 'perfect set up' at least in terms of shafts maybe perfect for 50% golfers out there...

This is what I have done as a 6'2", 17 hc without piles of cash lying about...

Putter: 34" Taylormade Rossa Modena 8 (off shelf), had a play, liked to the look of it, felt good - bought it. Only club in 4 years, i've never changed...

Wedges: Cleveland CG12 DSG (off shelf), As above, has the loft recommended by a club pro in order to get consistent yardage gaps (58,52) - brilliant, recently reshafted, rather than replaced as one got bent being playing out a ditch...

Irons: Mizuno MX23 - Golf Bidder - Rated 8 pretty much mint, standard everything, I regripped with 2 layers of tape... I check the 'green range mat residue' on the sole to ensure its all along the sole and divot depth consistency... i.e. lie is ok...(PGA Pro tip) would have this altered if was off, but no need at the moment.

Hybrid: Adams Idea A3 Boxer - (off shelf) at DG, love it.

Driver/3w: Ping G15 Demo-ed at my club for a few rounds, can't fault them...

What would i gain realistically from having a fitting...none of the above has been fitted other than having a pro stand with me and make recommendations based what he sees.

I like my gear, i wouldn't swap any club in my bag at the moment. As a 17hc who is trying to improve and seems to have a different swing everyweek (sometimes trying to slow down, othertimes be more upright etc etc), how is having all my gear set up for the how i was swinging on one particular day going to help me?

I rather stay relatively neutral until i have more consistency in my swing... that doesn't mean you can't pick things up as you go... i've worked put that i like 2 layers of grip tape, i've worked out that i have a fast swing speed and generally need stiff shafts but i'll try all the offerings and its remarkably simple how easy it is to work out which one is best just by hitting them...it usually just feels and the ball flight looks 'right'....

Anyway, i think it has some value in certain circumstances but for the average golfer its importance is way overstated.

One thing that does strike me from that list is the length of the putter.

I believe that far too many people play with a putter that is way too long for them.

35 inches seems to be a standard... but so many people look incredibly upright and the movement through the stroke awkward as a result of the flatstick being too long and as a result too upright.

Shorter putters are the way forward!

34" should be about right for 6'2" then?

I think it's a good choice. Gets you over the ball properly. Allows the arms to hang straight down from the shoulders as a result of that. And that means you don't get in your own way as you move the putter using the shoulders.

I'm six one and I use a 33.5 inch putter for exactly those reasons.

As Rossa has said, for most of us trying a club out and liking the way it performs is practically all we need to satisfy ourselves to buy it.

But (you knew that was coming!!) what if a slightly different shaft, lie, loft, etc made you hit the same club, better, further, more accurately? Surely being fitted would take any doubt out of the equation.

I think it's a confidence thing. As mentioned, if you try a club in AG or wherever, like the way it performs and buy it, you've got a feel good factor about it. Think about your putter. When do most people change it? When they are not holing putts. It's not the putters fault; it's unlikely to go out of shape. It's about finding another putter you feel confident with.

Same goes for being fitted for clubs. I think it would give you that bit of confidence that the clubs have been fitted and optimised for you. But on the flip side, what if you are swinging the club particularly well or badly when you are fitted?

Humpy,

Thats it, knowing yoour slubs are set for a specific swing will make you lose confidence in them much more quickly if maybe your swing alters a bit... so you think your swing is off at the moment which is compounded by the fact that your clubs are now not fitted properly... i think for me it adds another potential thing to worry about rather than the other way round... you can get too immersed in it especially mid/high handicapper who by their definition normally don't have hugely repeatable swings anyway.

Rossa wrote:...So unless you can afford to change your clubs or at least shafts and spec on a regular basis to keep pace with your evolving swing then i think it seems a bit pointless...

Precisely. Additionally, to me the current obsession with "fitting" just seems like another panacea to those that want a quick fix.

Let's see. There's Mr. All-the-gear-no-idea......got his 460cc 46" driver (fitted, obviously and have you heard? It carries 300 yards easy), got his two-ball/belly putter (ditto), got his GPS, got his special tees, got his space tech shoes, got his frictionless waterproofs, got his trolley, got his hybrids (fitted), got his delofted perimeter-weighted irons (fitted), got his lob wedge(s) (guess what?), got his 10 layer ball (even got fitted for this too!)......still can't hit a barn door from 6 feet.

Soon enough there won't be anything new to lay the blame on when we're playing badly.

Rossa, I presume all clubs, fitted or not, have a range or tolerance to them so if you are swinging a bit slower or a bit faster than normal the clubs still perform well.

Hump As I stated at the start of this thread, everyone will have their own reasons for or against fitting. The poll so far suggests that 100% are in favour of fitting, although I have to think that there are plenty of people who have posted and not voted? I agree with you in some ways especially with the putter, and the driver is another club that gets changed constantly for the same reasons.

i know exactly how my clubs will react in any given situation and have much more confidence in them. So for me it's a no brainer, fitting every time. But even though we seem to have a majority in favour of fitting, the real numbers suggest that only a small % of golfers have so far had clubs properly fitted. This is probably down to misconceptions about cost, or not knowing where to get it done, or not fully understanding the difference between a proper club fit, and the one you can get at AG superstore etc. There are also plenty of players who like to say they hit the ball a mile and need a x stiff shaft for all sorts of macho reasons. There will of course be others who have had it done, but will only ever get to a certain standard whatever club they had in their hands. Lets face facts, if we are asked what clubs you would reccomend, the majority of us would always mention the clubs you have. yet anyone can take their clubs to a proper fitter and get a correct evaluation of everything, and find out if what they have is correct. Reputable fitters get their business through word of mouth, and will not tell you to change this or that. They'll give you the facts and show you print-outs of what you've just done, and will probably say 'now try this' and show you the results. You will be astonished at the difference and will probably ask him to change a shaft, or correct a loft. After all the game of golf is a confidence thing, if you feel good, the chances are you will score better.

Humpy,

Thats my point... for intance take my Driver... Ping G15, basically had 3 realistic shaft options R, S and slightly different adila S (most driver come with a similar choice), tried them all and after having a chat with the pro picked the latter. Its not custom fitted but its within my range of tolerance so it performs well.

So had i been custom fitted and known my swing speed, launch angle and countless other variables, the result would have been either, the same or some specialist shaft, which probably cost more money and probably had a smaller range of tolerance, so as Mav described above a +/- 5mph swing speed change (or similar change in swing dynamics) rendered it useless.

For those with a repeatable swing, go for it... for a 17 hc can't see the point...

It depends on the level of custom fitting as well, i suspect many people would consider spotty oik with a laptop in AG, telling you to go for the reg stock option rather than the stiff a custom fit... i wouldn't.

Mmmm. Interesting stuff. Makes you think doesn't it. Amazing how people like Seve or Jacklin or Player or Trevino or Faldo ad infinitum were ever able to swing a club without all that technological assistance.... or are we blaming our own shortcomings on the kit when we really lack the skills and mental fortitude? Is it like as my dear ole dad would say 'son in days of old men were of iron and ships were of wood and now its the complete opposite.....'

The majority that have posted have voted in favour of fitting but how many of you have been fitted from day 1 of playing golf? Did you originally see a set of clubs and thought you liked the look those or were you given or bought a second hand set ?
Those that haven't been fitted have you checked with a "pro" to see that they are suitable for your game and that you have no yardage gaps. Have you ever had the lofts and lies checked? I have just had my irons checked and my pitching wedge and sand wedge were both different from the their spec so have had to buy a new approach wedge to provide a better balance.

K@S that was exactly my point from much earlier in the thread, a set of off the shelf clubs will not all be as specified. A club may be a 5-iron but be set up as a 6-iron, or some of the shafts which all say R will not be when checked. The upshot of this scenario, is that there will be a club or two that you not quite sure of as you rarely get the desired results, which makes you not too confident with it. This forces you to go for a club you do feel confident with forcing you to either put too much in, or try and play it easy. As for having a fit from day 1, I think it's a bit pointless as you should really grab a 2nd hand set and get a grasp of the game and see if it's something you are going to enjoy. Stage 2 in my case i lashed out a lot of wedge on some Teitliest XTC's and had them for years and in fairnes enjoyed them. But I did find 2 clubs that I had trouble with, which were found to be completley wrong in shaft and loft.

Noshanks, fully understand what you're saying, but if you put that statement into another context: The art of good ball striking is replication of a swing, but if a shaft is too weak for your swing with one particular club, your hands will be through before the club head. Or if your R shaft is really S the head will get through before your hands. Yes I appreciate that many, many golfers have no trouble and are very happy with their kit and thats fine. But there are a lot more who can't understand why certain things happen and get frustrated. K@S has had to spend cash on a new wedge, because he has a club that doesn't do what it says on the tin. Having someone check your kit 'frequency test' for shafts etc, will give you piece of mind as doesn't cost a lot. You make your own mind up after that.