Floyd/Shane V Manny/Shane

I know we've already got a thread about Manny v Shane but I can't be bothered to read 5 pages of people calling each other gay to see if this has been covered so here goes.

In general people seem left a little flat by Manny's performence, with his people either blaming Shane's tactics or a mysterious cramp.

Here I'm asking purely who put on the better show against Mosely out of Pacquiao and Mayweather. I think the man they fought was equal. Against Mayweather he looked very dry in the weigh in and against Manny he looked more comfortable at the weight but was a year older.

Of course Shane rocked Floyd whereas Manny decked Mosely, but people generally still seem more impressed by Mayweather, but depending on your trust of compubox the stats don't back that up.

It has Mayweather landing 208/477 (44%) against a Mosley who was coming at him early, and there for the taking for the rest of the night.

Manny on the other hand got 224/727 (31%) against a Mosley who was running for the vast majority.

Do vote (if I succesfully put a poll in) and feel free to leave a comment explaining why.

PS If you think anything anyone says in the thread is wummish you don't actually have to reply...

Well I Flip the poll up good and proper...

I don't think there's much of a debate here. Floyd put on a boxing clinic and Manny stuggled to find an old man.

...but found him more frequently than Mayweather.

Pacquiao vs Mosley

Duane Ford 120-107 | judge: Dave Moretti 120-108 | judge: Glenn Trowbridge 119-108

Mayweather vs Mosley

Dave Moretti 119-109 | judge: Robert Hoyle 118-110 | judge: Adalaide Byrd 119-109

Floyd's better - but he could have done a bit more - as compubox will tell you.

Boxtthis wrote:I don't think there's much of a debate here. Floyd put on a boxing clinic and Manny stuggled to find an old man.

Manny hit Shane more and got hit less.

Shane threw less and Manny threw far more

Mayweather was punch perfect in his application whereas Manny was not

Discussion over

oxring wrote:Floyd's better - but he could have done a bit more - as compubox will tell you.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=pacquiao-mosley-compubox

Total Punches Jabs Power Punches
Pacquiao 224 / 727 47 / 374 177 / 353
31% 13% 50%
Mosley 66 / 330 44 / 250 22 / 80
20% 18% 28%


Compubox will tell you Manny did a lot better than Floyd

Pacquiao also got a knockdown and was never in trouble.

Floyd lost the 2nd round heavily and had to hold on.

Can this thread just be locked straight away?

The Mighty Atom wrote:Can this thread just be locked straight away?

If that's how you're gonna respond yes, but if you want to discuss the relative merits of each fighter's performence taking into acount styles etc. I see no reason why it should.

What's the point even debating this when it's been done to death already

Only 22 power punches landed by Mosley against Pacquiao.

Mosley almost done that in 2 rounds against Mayweather

D4thincarnation wrote:Pacquiao vs Mosley

Duane Ford 120-107 | judge: Dave Moretti 120-108 | judge: Glenn Trowbridge 119-108

Mayweather vs Mosley

Dave Moretti 119-109 | judge: Robert Hoyle 118-110 | judge: Adalaide Byrd 119-109

Margarito: 12 round brutal shutout WIN: "my toughest fight ever"

Morales 1: 12 round decision LOSS: ...?

Marquez 1: 12 round DRAW, outboxed for most of the fight: ...?

etc, etc...

So Floyd has to hold on against Mosley and then puts on a clinic where his opponent doesn't win a round after that but it's a poor performance? Strange.

Mind you, no stranger than being put down three times in one round and then schooling your Filipino opponent for the remainder of the fight to such a degree that many people believe you deserved more than the draw.

Nor does Floyd come up with reason for a poor performance with are at odds with comments made about how good his camp was going into the fight...and he wasn't "cramping up" either (isn't that what women do when they're menstruating?). However, I doubt Manny's cramp is as severe as a certain poster's due to the tight grip he has on his bawbag

Most commentators agree Mosley was given a boxing lesson by Floyd and that Pacquiao was poor


Still, at least everyone had the right socks on this weekend!

D4thincarnation wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:I don't think there's much of a debate here. Floyd put on a boxing clinic and Manny stuggled to find an old man.

Manny hit Shane more and got hit less.

Not as far as compubox PERCENTAGES will tell you.

Total Punches
Jabs
Power Punches

Mayweather
208 / 477
85 / 210
123 / 267

44%
40%
46%

Mosley
92 / 452
46 / 283
46 / 169

20%
16%
27%

Total Punches Jabs Power Punches
Pacquiao 224 / 727 47 / 374 177 / 353
31% 13% 50%
Mosley 66 / 330 44 / 250 22 / 80
20% 18% 28%

Pacquiao and Mayweather stats side by side, as you can see Pacquiao's are superior.

Mayweathers look far far superior to me, threw far less and landed almost as much
Only an idiotic fool would see things differently, this board has become an absolute joke

Mayweather was a better performance for me as it was against a more live Mosely.

To be fair though, Pacquiao just coasted this fight and was not at his best either through cramp or just not needing to ever get out of second gear.

I'm not entirely convinced that we can use compubox findings to form an opinion, an idea to which JBW alluded in his article.

There are too many anomalies. For example, the Mosley who faced Pacquiao exhibited precious little ambition or aggression, so it is inevitable that he will have landed more frequently on Floyd than he will have on Manny.

It was a major disappointment. Mosley was only their for a last pay cheque and to survive the 12 rounds. Manny never really tested Shanes will to survive by putting him under pressure. He looked scared of Mosleys power and was happy to win rounds on workrate only.

Floyd looked better against Mosley because he isn't a volume puncher like Manny he is a boxer and a low percentage but more accurate puncher. He fought his style of fight.

Manny has set high standards at didn't live up to them at the weekend which was a shame because he hasn't got many more fights in him.

He is heavily involved in politics and at some point he will need to choose between the two. The fact he sees politics as his future means he probably won't fight for much longer.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Mayweathers look far far superior to me, threw far less and landed almost as much
Only an idiotic fool would see things differently, this board has become an absolute joke

Throwing less don't mean a thing, it what lands that counts.

And Pacquiao beat Mayweather on the punches landed and received.

Mosley's face will also say Pacquiao done better.

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Mayweathers look far far superior to me, threw far less and landed almost as much
Only an idiotic fool would see things differently, this board has become an absolute effing joke

Throwing less don't mean a thing, it what lands that counts.

And Pacquiao beat Mayweather on the punches landed and received.

Using a fight against a washed up Mosley to judge the two top fighters in the world is just ridiculous. Floyd looked good against Mosley. Manny didn't he didn't live up to the high standards he has set. Did he really look like the P4P#1 on Saturday night?

Answers on a postcard please.

HumanWindmill wrote:I'm not entirely convinced that we can use compubox findings to form an opinion, an idea to which JBW alluded in his article.

There are too many anomalies. For example, the Mosley who faced Pacquiao exhibited precious little ambition or aggression, so it is inevitable that he will have landed more frequently on Floyd than he will have on Manny.

He was on the defensive for a good reason, he didn't want to get KOed.

Something he was not concerned about with Mayweather.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:I'm not entirely convinced that we can use compubox findings to form an opinion, an idea to which JBW alluded in his article.

There are too many anomalies. For example, the Mosley who faced Pacquiao exhibited precious little ambition or aggression, so it is inevitable that he will have landed more frequently on Floyd than he will have on Manny.

He was on the defensive for a good reason, he didn't want to get KOed.

Something he was not concerned about with Mayweather.

No he was more aggressive and Floyd made him look ridiculous and used him as a punch bag that he hit at his own will.

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Mayweathers look far far superior to me, threw far less and landed almost as much
Only an idiotic fool would see things differently, this board has become an absolute effing joke

Throwing less don't mean a thing, it what lands that counts.

And Pacquiao beat Mayweather on the punches landed and received.

Using a fight against a washed up Mosley to judge the two top fighters in the world is just ridiculous. Floyd looked good against Mosley. Manny didn't he didn't live up to the high standards he has set. Did he really look like the P4P#1 on Saturday night?

Answers on a postcard please.

I thought Mosley vs Mayweather there was 1 good round that got the crowd of their feet, with Mosley vs Pacquiao there were 3 rounds that got people on their feet.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:I'm not entirely convinced that we can use compubox findings to form an opinion, an idea to which JBW alluded in his article.

There are too many anomalies. For example, the Mosley who faced Pacquiao exhibited precious little ambition or aggression, so it is inevitable that he will have landed more frequently on Floyd than he will have on Manny.

He was on the defensive for a good reason, he didn't want to get KOed.

Something he was not concerned about with Mayweather.

There's another reason. He was shot to smithereens. There were absolutely no positives for either fighter, for the fans, or for the sport itself, which could have been derived from this non - event.

Most of us knew that going in.

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Mayweathers look far far superior to me, threw far less and landed almost as much
Only an idiotic fool would see things differently, this board has become an absolute effing joke

Throwing less don't mean a thing, it what lands that counts.

And Pacquiao beat Mayweather on the punches landed and received.

Using a fight against a washed up Mosley to judge the two top fighters in the world is just ridiculous. Floyd looked good against Mosley. Manny didn't he didn't live up to the high standards he has set. Did he really look like the P4P#1 on Saturday night?

Answers on a postcard please.

I thought Mosley vs Mayweather there was 1 good round that got the crowd of their feet, with Mosley vs Pacquiao there were 3 rounds that got people on their feet.

Luckily for this forum no-one gives a rudey poo what you think to be honest, because as usual it's so biased and unobjective no-one really gives a monkeys.

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Mayweathers look far far superior to me, threw far less and landed almost as much
Only an idiotic fool would see things differently, this board has become an absolute effing joke

Throwing less don't mean a thing, it what lands that counts.

And Pacquiao beat Mayweather on the punches landed and received.

Using a fight against a washed up Mosley to judge the two top fighters in the world is just ridiculous. Floyd looked good against Mosley. Manny didn't he didn't live up to the high standards he has set. Did he really look like the P4P#1 on Saturday night?

Answers on a postcard please.

I thought Mosley vs Mayweather there was 1 good round that got the crowd of their feet, with Mosley vs Pacquiao there were 3 rounds that got people on their feet.

D4 you're clutching at straws here mate. Floyd fights his kind of fight and did it well he doesn't entertain the crowd he isn't that type of fighter. Manny is that type of fighter and because of the high standards he has set he was a bit of a let down. He is the P4P#1 and never really put the pressure on a shot Mosley. Apart from the KD when did Mosley look in real trouble I was expecting it to be a gut check for Mosley to see how much the fact he has never been stopped meant to him. That never happened.

Mayweather, it was a clinic after the second.

However, a lot of that has to do with Mosley's negativity against Pacquiao.

But yes, Mayweather looked better despite the KD for Pacquiao, caught him with much more regularity.

Manny beat Mosley more comfortably than Mayweather, Mosley's face tell us this, as well as the scorecards and the punch stats.

You get a good arguement put in front of you and you go back to the stats and face arguement. Have you ever watched the Mayweather v Mosley fight?

D4thincarnation wrote:Manny beat Mosley more comfortably than Mayweather, Mosley's face tell us this, as well as the scorecards and the punch stats.

They were different Mosleys, with differing ambitions.

prettyboykev wrote:You get a good arguement put in front of you and you go back to the stats and face arguement. Have you ever watched the Mayweather v Mosley fight?

Yes I had Mosley winning the first 2 rounds the 2nd round by a landslide and then won the last 10 comfortably.

Does anyone else think Pacquiao just doesnt respond in fights where he isnt really tested?

I sympathise with him in this because Mosely was just there to survive. Pacquiao didnt seem to really want to finish him off and looked content to just win on points. Mosely looked delighted at the end just to last the distance. Not the reaction Id expect from a guy who had been totally outclassed.

I think Pacquiao is one of those fighters that raises and lowers his performance in response to his opponent. If his opponent is agressive and comes to fight then it brings out the best in him. When his opponent is just there for the money he seems to drop down a notch or two and the intensity just isnt the same.

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You get a good arguement put in front of you and you go back to the stats and face arguement. Have you ever watched the Mayweather v Mosley fight?

Yes I had Mosley winning the first 2 rounds the 2nd round by a landslide and then won the last 10 comfortably.

Again, everybody said going in to the fight that it would be a non event, and that's precisely what it was. Protest all you will, but this fight stank out the arena and is now stinking out cyberspace.

manos de piedra wrote:Does anyone else think Pacquiao just doesnt respond in fights where he isnt really tested?

I sympathise with him in this because Mosely was just there to survive. Pacquiao didnt seem to really want to finish him off and looked content to just win on points. Mosely looked delighted at the end just to last the distance. Not the reaction Id expect from a guy who had been totally outclassed.

I think Pacquiao is one of those fighters that raises and lowers his performance in response to his opponent. If his opponent is agressive and comes to fight then it brings out the best in him. When his opponent is just there for the money he seems to drop down a notch or two and the intensity just isnt the same.

Cotto and Marg tested him the most in recent times and those were his best performances.

D4thincarnation wrote:Manny beat Mosley more comfortably than Mayweather, Mosley's face tell us this, as well as the scorecards and the punch stats.

He may have won just as many rounds, give or take, as Mayweather did. But the rounds Mayweather won against Mosley, he absolutely dominated. The rounds Pacquiao won, on the other hand, were more often a case of him simply being the slightly better of two under-performing fighters. Mayweather, like it or not, made Mosley look incredibly average and foolish at times, something Pacquiao wasn't able to replicate. He extracted 'ooohs' and 'aaahs' from the audience - Pacquiao and Mosley (with most of the blame at the latter's door, I accept) provoked quite a different response, as I'm sure even you are aware of, D4.

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You get a good arguement put in front of you and you go back to the stats and face arguement. Have you ever watched the Mayweather v Mosley fight?

Yes I had Mosley winning the first 2 rounds the 2nd round by a landslide and then won the last 10 comfortably.

How could you have had it as a landslide 10-8 at best but that would've been ridiculously generous.

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You get a good arguement put in front of you and you go back to the stats and face arguement. Have you ever watched the Mayweather v Mosley fight?

Yes I had Mosley winning the first 2 rounds the 2nd round by a landslide and then won the last 10 comfortably.

Again, everybody said going in to the fight that it would be a non event, and that's precisely what it was. Protest all you will, but this fight stank out the arena and is now stinking out cyberspace.

That maybe be their view but this post is about who did better against Mosley, Pacquiao or Mayweather.

I didn't think Manny was great, but as is often said, it's hard to look good against someone who doesn't want to fight. He's looked better, but I don't think his less than stellar (bu his standards) performance was anything to do with Mosely.
I'm not Mayweather fan, but I thought he was excellant against Mosely. However, as with Manny, I think Mosely was terrible after the second round. He was out of breath and struggling.
So, I suppose Mayweather was better, but I think it's irrlevant. Manny was better against De La Hoya, Hatton etc, so what

prettyboykev wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You get a good arguement put in front of you and you go back to the stats and face arguement. Have you ever watched the Mayweather v Mosley fight?

Yes I had Mosley winning the first 2 rounds the 2nd round by a landslide and then won the last 10 comfortably.

How could you have had it as a landslide 10-8 at best but that would've been ridiculously generous.

What do you think a landslide is? Or what I meant by it?

D4thincarnation wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Does anyone else think Pacquiao just doesnt respond in fights where he isnt really tested?

I sympathise with him in this because Mosely was just there to survive. Pacquiao didnt seem to really want to finish him off and looked content to just win on points. Mosely looked delighted at the end just to last the distance. Not the reaction Id expect from a guy who had been totally outclassed.

I think Pacquiao is one of those fighters that raises and lowers his performance in response to his opponent. If his opponent is agressive and comes to fight then it brings out the best in him. When his opponent is just there for the money he seems to drop down a notch or two and the intensity just isnt the same.

Cotto and Marg tested him the most in recent times and those were his best performances.

Thats what I mean, against Clottey and Mosely who were just there to try an last he looked a bit off the pace but against fighters that come to have a go it normally brings out an added level of intensity out of him.

There was a significant diffeence in his level of intensity and performance in this fight compared with Margarito or Cotto or his fights below lightweight.

I actually had that famous 2nd round even, gets forgotten that Mosley landed two punches aside from which Mayweather dominated the round.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You get a good arguement put in front of you and you go back to the stats and face arguement. Have you ever watched the Mayweather v Mosley fight?

Yes I had Mosley winning the first 2 rounds the 2nd round by a landslide and then won the last 10 comfortably.

Again, everybody said going in to the fight that it would be a non event, and that's precisely what it was. Protest all you will, but this fight stank out the arena and is now stinking out cyberspace.

That maybe be their view but this post is about who did better against Mosley, Pacquiao or Mayweather.

The analysis of which is dependent, to some degree, on the perceived level of the opposition. Mosley had ambition going in to the Mayweather fight. He exhibited zero ambition against Manny and, as a result, the fight was exactly the non event which most people had expected.

The Mighty Atom wrote:I actually had that famous 2nd round even, gets forgotten that Mosley landed two punches aside from which Mayweather dominated the round.

Think you will find it was 18/47, compared to Mayweather's 11/26

You must be the only person in the world to call that even

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:You get a good arguement put in front of you and you go back to the stats and face arguement. Have you ever watched the Mayweather v Mosley fight?

Yes I had Mosley winning the first 2 rounds the 2nd round by a landslide and then won the last 10 comfortably.

Again, everybody said going in to the fight that it would be a non event, and that's precisely what it was. Protest all you will, but this fight stank out the arena and is now stinking out cyberspace.

That maybe be their view but this post is about who did better against Mosley, Pacquiao or Mayweather.

The analysis of which is dependent, to some degree, on the perceived level of the opposition. Mosley had ambition going in to the Mayweather fight. He exhibited zero ambition against Manny and, as a result, the fight was exactly the non event which most people had expected.

The tactic or quality of the opponent was not apart of the question, it was a simple question. Who done better?

You must be the only person in the world who fought Pacquiao performed better against Mosley than Mayweather

Just twisting the statistics which show Mayweather was more accurate so therefore must have won the round, no need to watch a fight just look at the numbers.

Also who did you have winning Chavez/Taylor going into the 12th round?