Murray the heavy favourite now - Part II

First topic message reminder :

No idea what happened to my earlier thread "Murray the heavy favourite for the title" , when I posted the orginal thread I kept Murray's grass court stats in mind which he is 7th overall and 2nd only to Federer among current players.

Now with both Nadal and Federer knocked out Murray is easily the heavy favourite, I know Djoko is still left, but all of a sudden Djoko's draw looks more tough than Murray's draw.

No Tsonga, Nadal and Fed , who can expect this luck, the real danger mens are Del Potro and Berdych and both now breathing hard on the other side of the draw.

Murray make merry of it and get the title and the no.1 for the year, Go Muzza go.

FedsFan wrote:

banbrotam wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:Compare to my belief that Murray is the heavy favourite most part of British public is already made to believe by media that Murray is the Wimbledon champion, such is the hype . 

Really? Where? Most were dumbstruck after that Novak performance. I don't think we should mistake enthusiasm for naive arrogance. I think you might be right, that he's expected, by some, to breeze through to the final

I agree with you guys. The media have already given Murray the trophy. Most of the two week tennis fans (i.e colleagues etc) seem to be convinced he will definitely breeze through to the title. The way Murray has been playing it looks that way but with Djokovic you don't know if you will get blown away (AO 2011) or if it will be the US Open all over again where he started too slow by which time it was too late.

I sense history is repeating itself here. Last year JMDP wore Federer down for 4 and a half hours in the semis of the Olympics leaving the Swiss possibly drained for the Sunday showpiece. A match from Federer on grass at Wimbledon with a scoreline such as that hints to fatigue.
JMDP has done it again to Murray's opponent and I am just wondering whether Djokovic will have enough in the tank not just to hang with Murray but to be sharp/alert. I know he mentioned Australia but that was night sessions.

What media do you watch and read in the UK. Id love to see any direct quotes from the papers saying that Murray is going to win easily, in two weeks I haven't heard or read anything that even remotely suggested he could breeze to the title.
At best the most hopeful report will say he has a 50 50 chance but most accept he is the underdog.
Im the first to admit that the media is irritating at times but hyperbole like this is just daft. Lets face it you'll get far more rational approaches in the press to players than you do on this board.

I have heard certain people saying they'd like Andy to lose as they are fed up with the media coverage. Is that his fault? In any case a lot of those same people 'lapped up' coverage of Bradley Wiggins winning the Tour de France (days before it happened) and every two years the whole of Britain has to put up with frenzied talk of England at football tournaments and how a win was on the card - again lapped up by certain people. A slight difference here is that Murray merits it more as he has actually reached finals and won a slam so expectation will and should be bigger. In any case at least Murray is representing GB so the whole of Britain (well those that care) share it whereas for England the rest of Britain do not want to know.

Just as a point of fact, if someone says they want Andy to lose to spite the media, they've given their reason. It doesn't have anything to do with Andy, it's not his fault but they're not blaming him. I want Murray to win, but if he doesn't there will be consolation in the reaction in the media.

As for the patriotic appeal, well you know my attitude to that and I'm not alone. It's irrelevant to many; not, as some misunderstand, a negative, just not important.

Yes I understand that bogbrush and I don't have any problem people supporting who they wish to support in the final but let it be for the right reason. HM Murdoch and socal we know are big Novak fans so of course they'll be backing their man and the same goes for other posters backing the Serb. However, when it is people wanting Novak to win because Andy is Scottish or they don't like his mum etc etc that is when it all becomes pathetic in my opinion.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes I understand that bogbrush and I don't have any problem people supporting who they wish to support in the final but let it be for the right reason. HM Murdoch and socal we know are big Novak fans so of course they'll be backing their man and the same goes for other posters backing the Serb. However, when it is people wanting Novak to win because Andy is Scottish or they don't like his mum etc etc that is when it all becomes pathetic in my opinion.

So it does, but it's neither here nor there really that people say such stuff.

But it's their reason, which belongs to them. It's perfectly rational to be so irritated with external factors, and so indifferent to the guy, to wish for a result against him.

Incidentally, you think it's pathetic if they want him to lose because he's Scottish but you think it's ok to say Murray is representing the whole of Britain (presumably as endorsement for him).

Murray will/should/he better win.

Yes just as it would be pathetic if I posted on forums nine to the dozen that I didn't want Federer to win because he was Swiss or wore a hairband etc. Difference is I never do that. It is a tennis match and may the best man win in my book. If people love Novak's style of play and support him I have no problem or if they back him because they'd prefer him to win I don't have any problems but when darker forces are at work then sorry but that is going too far in my opinion for what it is worth but there you go.

bb - logic is decent as ever, but there is a difference between, for example, me tending to root for Murray because all other things being equal he's British, and an Englishman taking and expressing vindictive pleasure in his crashing and burning because he's a Scot.

Attitudes towards Murray, more than any other sportsman I can remember, epitomise the contradictions that sport throws up between GB, UK, England, Scotland and so-on.  What is so bizarre is that this is an individual sport

In addition, should Djokovic win today I will be here to offer congratulations and salute a great champion. However, those wishing Murray to lose for silly petty reasons are the ones that, should Murray win, would be posting that it wasn't deserved or trying to devalue the win in any way possible.

Theres no difference, just positive and negative values with a result.

See, I just learned that Victoria Beckham will be there to support Murray (David would have been but he's in Singapore, what a shame). That's added some more into my anti-Murray account; not enough to change my mind but I don't want to hear much more about such hangers-on.
For instance, if there was to be a flash on the telly of Alec Salmond, or Alex Ferguson, or Sean Connery, or of anyone like that started waffling on about Scotland's pride, them I'm afraid I could flip. Their disappointment would taste nice, as would denial of their chance to bask in his glory afterwards.

BB yes I'd agree with you in some areas there but in others perhaps not. Salmond is using it nothing more as to score political points so shouldn't be there but blame Wimbledon for allowing him there. Ferguson and Connery I am not so sure as I know Fergie has been a long-time fan since his junior days so he is entitled to be there in my opinion but am less sure about Connery.

It's very much not about blaming Murray. My brother is desperate for Andy to lose but I know he says he thinks the guy is fine. His point is that so is the other guy, so he's not bothered who wins for themselves, but he can't stand the rest of the scenery. He also says he knows very well there're Serbian equivalents but he doesn't have to see or hear from them.

Connery probably won't be there, but the guy is pathetic. He has the typical patriotic fervour of a guilty emigrant; someone who got the Hell out himself but plays the card.

Bottom line I'm saying, don't assume people who are anti Murray dislike the guy himself. Most don't (the idiots about the football comment are doing so for doubly misguided patriotic reasons so they're morons), for them Andy is just collateral damage. For me, I have just enough reason on the tennis front to be hoping Murray wins, but I'll avert my gaze when the hangers on appear, and they're my consolation prize if he loses.

I can't disagree with much of that BB. As for the showbiz people on show they are just part and parcel of the whole occasion as each slam and big sporting occasion has them. I will be a little nauseous at the sight of Salmond.  

Sport is a nationalistic-patriotic tool in most countries. Sure the western world is modern, high-tech, Facebook/twitter slaves, that have lost all the value of their national pride and allow Media to form a view of a person for them.

In other words, any real British person that support Djoko over Murray today, needs to be dragged across the Regents Park and slapped with a soft ice-cream & flake on the face. 

If the player is not specifically representing their country, there is no need, duty or logic in supporting said player just because they come from it, surely? Like, do I have to support Lewis Hamilton too? Or David Haye?!

F1 is one against 20+, so no. But 1 to 1, yes, don't be ashamed to support your sort.

No Chequered Jersey you support who you want. Nobody has any problems with that at all as long as it is for positive reasons ie you like Novak's style of play, are a supporter of his, would prefer him to win for whatever reason then that is fine as long as due respect and credit is given to Murray if/should he win.

The main problem I have with Murray winning it, aside from my admiration for Novak, is that it is Wimbledon and I don't think I would deal with the sickly, overhyped platitudes afterward very well. I would love for him to win more majors but the Media and commentary have frankly put me off Murray winning at Wimbledon for the last few years

Sorry but I don't see that as a valid reason at all. If you consider that the same media tarnished Murray's image for life for brandishing him a bigot for a bit of friendly banter between him and Henman seven years ago then this is merely pay back time. I can honestly say I don't think I can ever recall a British sportsman being so nastily misrepresented by the British media and the stigma still stands.

Jahu wrote:F1 is one against 20+, so no. But 1 to 1, yes, don't be ashamed to support your sort.

I despair. How is humanity ever to get anywhere with this kind of thinking?

bb: there is nothing wrong supporting your countrymen.

That's not what I meant CC, I think Murray is a good man and not a bigot and if he wins he will have deserved it and I'd love to see him win more majors. It's the media fawning that puts me off not the criticism he previously got. I saw his documentary and it's clear he's not a dick

This is turning into a political thread.

ChequeredJersey wrote:That's not what I meant CC, I think Murray is a good man and not a bigot and if he wins he will have deserved it and I'd love to see him win more majors. It's the media fawning that puts me off not the criticism he previously got. I saw his documentary and it's clear he's not a dick

So is that not a reason in itself to want him to win as you know/understand the truth? In any case lets face it the media are not worth worrying about as they are just as likely to rip into him should he lose they really are that vain. It is the same media that put the likes of Eddie 'The Eagle' Edwards on hero status then thought nothing of ripping into his personal life years later.

Suffice to say I shall effectively be neutral in this match, either man would be a worthy winner and I shall congratulate whichever does so and applaud and cheer good play from both but I shall not be specifically supporting or rooting against Andy

ChequeredJersey wrote:Suffice to say I shall effectively be neutral in this match, either man would be a worthy winner and I shall congratulate whichever does so and applaud and cheer good play from both but I shall not be specifically supporting or rooting against Andy

And that is fair enough and I hope you enjoy a classic match.

Jahu wrote:This is turning into a political thread.

I didn't make it so, you introduced nationalism.

Nope, patriotism was here before I came, I just channeled it into the national sort.

See, serbian president just congratulated Djoko in the hall while the players were walking, its all nationalism.

All Hail the new Wimbledon Champion Andy Murray  

Kiss Kiss Andy

CaledonianCraig wrote:I can't disagree with much of that BB. As for the showbiz people on show they are just part and parcel of the whole occasion as each slam and big sporting occasion has them. I will be a little nauseous at the sight of Salmond.  

You branded me even as a non- Murray fan for saying the facts  

I guess you forgot my article last year after he lost to Roger Federer, I became a fan of Andy and his hard work from that match and I have been cheering Andy for all tournaments and he is winning everything barring the AO 2013.

Anyways Muzza rules, I predicted him to be the NO.1 as well when everybody laughed at me in that thread  , just waiting for that to happen as well.

Oh I am too happy to argue ic.   

Got to hand it to IC.  He called it correctly

carrieg4 wrote:Got to hand it to IC.  He called it correctly

  

cc wrote:Oh I am too happy to argue ic

  

And I tell you what IC - hope Delpo keeps this up. What a lad.

 

Dave. wrote:And I tell you what IC - hope Delpo keeps this up. What a lad.

 

Del Po will get his due as well Bro, till that time he needs to work hard liker he is doing it right now .