Most Overrated Player on the Tour?

First topic message reminder :

Its gotta be Jamie Heaslip

Yet only now has Gatland realised this

I would have taken him on the tour...but no way had him in a starting test squad

Sam don't think it's just Kelly Brown I would have ahead of Lydiate. The following in my opinion deserved to go more:

Robshaw
Wood
R.Jones
Harley

beshocked wrote:Sam don't think it's just Kelly Brown I would have ahead of Lydiate. The following in my opinion deserved to go more:

Robshaw
Wood
R.Jones
Harley

Why?  They'd still be in deckchairs by a pool at this stage.  Everyone knows that now.  Having said that, it wouldn't be a bad way to spend a 'not-picked' tour.

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Sexton has done nothing in either test. No line breaks, created nothing for anyone else, kicked ball to their back three. Oh and that wrap around thing with BOD which the opposition see coming every time.

In the first test Sexton chipped and re gathered on a few occasions. He was fairly industrious despite dreadful service from Philips. In the second test the Lions didnt get much posession and Youngs wasnt great either really was he? Sexton hasnt done much wrong except for a terrible attempt at a tackle on Folau.

Sexton butchered an overlap in the second test. He had men outside him but went to break instead. He also kicked the ball away far too much but was that him or was he under instructions.


Sexton was good in the first test and varied the play superbly especially when the Lions were under pressure.

I think it was probably a mistake not to bring on Farrell in the last test over Sexton in the 2nd half over Sexton. He has a little bit of a dog about him, a bit of grit and it would have worked well against AUS. Defensively he's very strong.

Bit unfair on Sexton though... if you don't give an attacking 10 front foot ball then don't expect him to do anything with it... unless he's Quade Cooper.

The fact that the lions have never gone to smash the gain line with pace in the forwards or bring in chaps like North, Bowe, Cuthbert etc in the tight then Sexton was always up against it.

beshocked wrote:Sam don't think it's just Kelly Brown I would have ahead of Lydiate. The following in my opinion deserved to go more:

Robshaw
Wood
R.Jones
Harley

I agree with those except Ryan Jones. I think father time might have caught up with him but if he was younger I'd certainly have him in there.


Peter O'Mahony is good in the lineout, can carry the ball, big workrate, has captained Munster and now Ireland and puts his body on the line defensively. He has also played 6, 7 and 8. Another player IMO unlucky to be there.

beshocked wrote:http://www.rugbystats.com.au/matches/rugby/match22231.html


Very interesting look stats.

Looks like Dan Lydiate was in sparkling form with 9 tackles, 4 missed tackles, giving away 1 penalty and making no turnovers. 4 runs for only 10m.

Of course because they make the likes of Lydiate look bad they are a load of rubbish right guys?

You are really getting to desperation mode now

STATS are what they are: and a lazy way to attempt to justify a net cause. Are they accurate Beshoked?

By the way Lydiate only missed 2 tackles and that was when he was absolutely out on his feet.

By the way Croft only on for 15-16 mins Fresh as a daisy, fit and raring to make a point..... made NO... NONE... NIL PAR.... runs or  metres with the ball in hand (Lydiate made 4 RUNS 10 METRES), tackles wise made 6 missed 2,  and gave away 1 penalty.

Kinda give the right comparison, my little cherry picking friend

or are the espn stats accurate

Pos   T/A Pts K/P/R MR CB DB OL TO  Tack LO Pen Y/R
F Lydiate 0/0 0 0/0/4 6 0 0 0 0  13/2 0/0 1 0/0
F Croft 0/0 0 0/0/0 0 0 0 0 0  5/1 0/0 1 0/0

That's 13 THIRTEEN tackles made 2 TWO missed, only 1 ONE penalty, 4 runs 6 metres made for "Traditional Dan the Man" Lydiate, and even worse readings for "Tom the  Crafty Wingman" Croft  Ahem lets see 5 FIVE tackles made, 1 ONE missed, 1 ONE penalty, NO runs NO metres made.

Both stats are surprise surprise inconsistent, but there is a correlation Dan made the mistakes during the last quarter when even Gatland said he was out on his feet, and Croft well in the 15-16 mins he was on he didn't make any of his so called trade mark offensive penetrative runs, and missed two crucial tackles and gave the same amount of pens that Lydiate did in the whole match.

There you go forum - a classic case of "Cherry Picking" data to run down a player

Nice one Beshoked, nice son,
Nice one Beshoooooked ...... lets!! have another one

gunsgerms wrote:. Youngs wasnt great either really was he?

His passing was good, his kicking brought three penalties because his box kicks were excellent allowing chasers plenty of time to compete. He drew the defence and passed to release forwards intelligently. Basically he did everything Phillips should have done. Despite having twice as much posession Genia was noticeably quieter. When Youngs left the field we were in front and the forwards well marshalled but under pressure.

He didn't run with the ball but given the amount of possession that wasn't really an option. Given the Lions tactics were to play territory by kicking the ball then pick penalties he played his part. Connor Murray brought a lot of physicallity off the bench and an equally goodbox kick but not the organisation.

In short I am mystified as to wht Youngs has been dropped for the vastly inferior Phillips. Big Mike is the third best 9 on the tour.

lyhalffactory wrote:. By the way Croft only on for 15-16 mins Fresh as a daisy, fit and raring to make a point..... made NO... NONE... NIL PAR.... runs or metres with the ball in hand

He was raring to go, hence why he was the one chasing the kick offs, applying pressure to the Aussie kickers and making on average more tackles pee minute than Lydiate. The fact he made no metres is not really a poor indicator as he was not given the ball to run as we were on the back foot for the entirity of the second half. Also why would you want Croft carrying when the game plan was smash it up the tight then kick for territory? SOB, Mako, Hibbard can all smash it up, when the kick comes you want Croft chasing.

Most Over rated player on tour?

Mike Phillips.

Sam you really are serving a massive dollop of double standards.....

One minute you are banging on about your mans obvious better skills.... ball carrying, positioning, speed around the park.... and your partner-in-wine beshoked searching for a stats site that will reveal the most damning evidence cherry picking the data to reveal.

If you want to dig the hole deeper when banging on about tackles..... its not just number of tackles its how effective they are. Just look at Crofts tackle and then miss tackle in the pressure build up to the Oz try. I believe that nailed his coffin.

 FHF - Nice one on Murray getting to the Final

LOVED IT..... THAT POLE IS HUGE THO.

Two great matches today... only saw the last two sets but the boy did good

 That's 2 Jocks in the final mate - Things are looking up - and with Fergie there as well

There was only one crucial missed tackle missed tackle in the try and Davies wasn't dropped because of it. A three on three should have been defensible from that position. Croft has been dropped because Gatland has panicked and gone with players he knows. Youngs>Hibbard, Heaslip>Falatau, Youngs>Phillips and BOD>Davies. Gatland doesn't know them so doesn't trust them so he goes with the Welsh boys that won him the 6N.

Not sure how Beshocked "cherry picked" data. The backing for Lydiate stemmed from his perceived ability to make a huge number of tackles. Beschocked merely proved that he didn't do that in the last test.

I am feeling a tad embarressed for the massive over-representation of us Jocks for the 3rd test though. I mean Mr G think of the other nations fans!!!.

Sam

I suggest you read my riposte to the Cheery Cherry Plucker.

Çrofty the wingman tackled like he hands of candy floss, the Aussies sucking him in and easily redistributed and then he totally was run over like he was 8st wet. That was the momentum needed to form the breakdown for the Aussies..... no excuse considering he was only on for what just tad more than 10 mins.

Ì know he is a Tiger but this is a tad weird (but not surprising when I think about it) you refusing to accept any of the evidence. Anyway you have a good one junior