Superxv Chiefs vs Crusaders semi final and match thread

[Taylorman]

http://www.superxv.com/news/super15_rugby_news.asp?id=39892

With names like Dan Carter, Ritchie McCaw, Kieran Read, Aaron Cruden, Owen Franks. Israel Dagg and Sam Whitelock This club semi-final showcases the very best of NZ rugby.

With one win a piece this year, the Saders recent thrashing the Chiefs and continuing that form against the Reds last week, the faves would have to be the Saders.

But with Dave Rennie and Wayne Smith at the helm, theres a reason why the Chiefs are defending champs and topped the table in the round robin and will ensure that the loss 3 weeks ago counts for nothing.

In all honesty I can't pick it and although the Saders form is hot, they have been prone to freeze at this point in recent years, and the Chiefs will be sure to pounce on that.

Possibly the best 2 10's in world rugby clash and the match looks to be a thriller.

I just hope the game lives up to the quality of the players turning out and all in all, this is as good as it gets for NZ rugby.

Last five results
05 Jul 2013 Chiefs v Crusaders 15-43 Christchurch
24 May 2013 Chiefs v Crusaders 28-19 Hamilton
27 Jul 2012 (Semi) Chiefs v Crusaders 20-17 Hamilton
06 Jul 2012 Chiefs v Crusaders 21-28 Hamilton
09 Mar 2012 Chiefs v Crusaders 24-19 Napier

Chiefs overall record against the Crusaders
Played 22 ,Wins 7 ,Losses 15 ,Draws 0


Super Rugby Semi-Final (Match D)
Match No.123/125: Chiefs v Crusaders
Date : Saturday 27 July, 2013
Venue : Waikato Stadium, Hamilton, New Zealand
Kick Off local: (1935 local, 1735 NSW/ACT, 0935 SAT, 0735 GMT)
Referee: Steve Walsh
Assistant Ref 1:Glen Jackson
Assistant Ref 2:Chris Pollock
TMO : Glenn Newman


Teams

Chiefs

1.Toby Smith , 2.Hika Elliot , 3.Ben Tameifuna , 4.Craig Clarke (c) , 5.Brodie Retallick , 6.Liam Messam , 7.Tanerau Latimer , 8.Matt Vant Leven , 9.Tawera Kerr-Barlow , 10.Aaron Cruden , 11.Asaeli Tikoirotuma , 12.Andrew Horrell , 13.Charlie Ngatai , 14.Lelia Masaga , 15.Gareth Anscombe

Replacements : 16.Rhys Marshall , 17.Ben Afeaki , 18.Michael Fitzgerald , 19.Sam Cane , 20.Augustine Pulu , 21.Bundee Aki , 22.Robbie Robinson.

Crusaders

1. Wyatt Crockett , 2. Corey Flynn ,3. Owen Franks , 4. Luke Romano , 5. Sam Whitelock , 6. George Whitelock , 7. Matt Todd , 8. Kieran Read (c) , 9. Andy Ellis , 10. Dan Carter , 11. Zac Guildford , 12. Tom Taylor , 13. Ryan Crotty , 14. Tom Marshall , 15. Israel Dagg ,

Replacements : 16. Ben Funnell , 17. Joe Moody , 18. Luke Whitelock , 19. Richie McCaw , 20. Willi Heinz , 21. Tyler Bleyendaal , 22. Adam Whitelock.

[Biltong]

Go Crusaders!!!!!!

[Taylorman]

Hika Reid ha ha...Elliot...and Latimer in doubt already? Thats not good. Plus half the side with 3 weeks of non matches?

12 table toppers have gone on to win this but the Saders have shown the trends are there to be knocked.

Chiefs look up against it and I reckon its now about how Rennie and Smith have mentally prepared the side.

[Coleman]

That first two mins was unreal. So fast. . .

[Taylorman]

good start chiefs...only way the saders are going to be taken is to take it to them early...

[ALPanorak]

Israel Dagg is such a smooth, elusive runner - my favourite full back in world rugby.
This game is finely poised but I think the Crusaders should be able to overhaul this 4 point deficit but credit to the Chiefs - their defence has been immense

[Taylorman]

Dagg watching back at the linesmam was hard case as he slid in...he knew he was close...

[blackcanelion]

Well as a Hurricanes fan. Great, the Chiefcanes beat the Hurrisaders. Roll on next weekend.

Great game.

[Taylorman]

how many manawatu players in that chiefs side bc?

[Brendan]

How did clarke do for the chiefs.

[Guest]

Didn't watch the game as in the Solomon Islands, but heard it on Radiosport, sounded like an awesome game.  And stoked my chiefs won, they're not a team of stars but boy they are a good team!

As an aside.  Kiwi posters probably have already seen this on stuff, but it mentions a possible NZ-OZ breakaway competition in 2016.  Apparently driven by SA.  The Rugby Championship would remain......

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/8972704/SANZAR-considering-splitting-Super-Rugby-in-2016

"Australia and New Zealand would form their own Australasian rugby competition under an alternative to Super Rugby being considered for 2016 and beyond.

Under one of three secret proposals being discussed among the SANZAR nations of Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, with input from Argentina, South Africa would splinter from the current Super Rugby tournament and form its own competition with at least six teams and, potentially, an Argentinian side.

The Australian and New Zealand provinces would form a second grouping and potentially welcome an Asian side to their competition in future seasons.

The proposal would take effect when the new broadcasting rights deal ticks over in 2016. SANZAR wants to have a decision agreed by the end of this year to give all parties enough time to plan under the new framework if one is agreed.

The push has been engineered by the South African Rugby Union, who have two teams, the Kings and Lions, locked in a hugely unpopular promotion-relegation battle to decide which one takes the conference's fifth spot in Super Rugby next year. SARU wants to enlarge its permanent footprint to six teams, an increase that would render the conference system unworkable.

The Australian and New Zealand national unions were initially satisfied with the current format, subject to some smaller tweaks, but are understood to have been swayed by the potential benefits of the proposed model".

[blackcanelion]

how many manawatu players in that chiefs side bc?

Not sure how many play there now (probably none). but Cruden and the Whitelock Bothers all grew up in the Manawatu. Fitzgerald went to school in Wanganui. Tikoirotuma did as well, but only in his last year - he's Fijian.

All up 14 guys (excluding Tikoirotuma) who grew up in the Hurricanes catchment played in the game (7 on each side).

Chiefs
Hikawera Elliott
Ben Tameifuna
Craig Clarke
Aaron Cruden
Charlie Ngatai
Rhys Marshall
Michael Fitzgerald

Crusaders
Sam Whitelock
George Whitelock
Zac Guildford
Israel Dagg
Ben Funnell
Luke Whitelock
Adam Whitelock

[Sgt_Pooly]

Cracking game, I thought the Chiefs deserved the win and will be tough to beat at home.

Thought Cruden was excellent in defence, he's really sorted it out this season.

[Taylorman]

How did clarke do for the chiefs.

Carke went well with a good early steal in one of the early lineouts. Probably with Fruean the most unluckiest player likely to never wear the AB jersey.

[Taylorman]

Chiefs Brumbies final, with the Chiefs a bye- home- home run vs the Brumbies who had a home, away and another away.

Its the battle of the wits in the top room with the Rennie and more so Wayne Smith vs ex Bok coach Jake White, both having won World cup finals...White as the font man and Smithy as the ever present navigator.

The win versus the Saders can't be underestimated as other than the home ground the odds were stacked against them turning around the result of 3 weeks ago.

For the Brumbies, a timely return to form after a few weeks of sitting on their lead in the Ozzie conference, but it took a huge effort to take the Bulls in their home back yard, and much of that will have been down to preparation, both mentally and physically, using every ounce of Whites skill and experience.

Same with the Chiefs win and the same again for the final.

The superior preparation over the next week will give one side the trophy.

...plus perhaps a few of those cowbells at the right moment... 

[ChequeredJersey]

How did Big Ben T play?

[aucklandlaurie]

How did clarke do for the chiefs.

Brendan, he was utterly brilliant, for the last twelve months he has been the most unrecognised player in New Zealand rugby.

[blackcanelion]

How did clarke do for the chiefs.

Brendan, he was utterly brilliant, for the last twelve months he has been the most unrecognised player in New Zealand rugby.

x2

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Clarke made the decisive break that swung the game in their favour. Also took the brave option of going for a try instead of the 3 points. Great leader.

The impressive thing for me from the Chiefs was their defence. They held out the Crusaders on so many occasions and their line speed got up in the faces of the Crusaders and they seemed unable to break the Chiefs' line.

When Kieran Read made that break I thought he should've dummied and gone for the line. The Chiefs winger was committed to the pass. If we'd scored then or scored the points that went begging in the first half, it'd be a Crusaders Brumbies final like I predicted.

It hurts as this was another golden opportunity to break the drought. But you just have to take your hat off to the Chiefs who scored at key times and held the line for large periods of the second half. Deserved finalists and I hope they now get back to back victories.  

[emack2]

The one factor that the Crusaders need to address is the number of intercept tries they have conceded recently.Bulls have had a poor finish to the season and relied on brute force and the
boot of Steyn.
Brumbies this year have been consistently good even if only achieving narrow wins,plus the
Lions under there belt.
A great Final in prospect hopefully Chiefs will retain there title and with SBW back next year?

[Hood83]

Tell you what, that young Carter fella will be a decent prospect if he ever learns the crucial skill of drop-goals...

[Taylorman]

Have to agree there. DC missed four gettable 3 pointers- a drop goal in either half and 2 easyish penalties- hitting the posts. The drop goal at the death looked lame and his missed kicks heralded the comeback of the Chiefs immediately after the break.

Although DC played well elsewhere Cruden once again got the better of him, was everywhere in attack and defence and- once again- got up at the crucial time for the intercept- last time he charged DC down to score. Cant help but think a Cruden SBW combo will be back in the mix at some point next year right through until the WCup.

Alan its not only the saders letting in intercepts- all the kiwi sides are guilty of it. We run the ball so close to the line to get that critical break that opposition sides just as equally look for the loose passes- the Canes and Blues are shocking for it. Its an accepted part of the game here even though no one will admit it.

The Chiefs winning this was a huge ask as few sides would have the form the saders are in and at home (as cruden put it) 'another final in front of friends and family how can we not get up for that?'

I agree. Brumbies are facing a big uphill battle- particularly after two matches they should have lost at the death (albeit to the Chiefs one!) and the travel involved. No side has done what the Brumbies are attempting here- think that'll continue and we'll see another one sided final in Hamilton...again.

[emack2]

Hi,Taylorman have you at last come to agree with me about Drop goals,I am a great Crusaders fan.BUT expected Home advantage plus the extra rest to be enough for the
Chiefs.Dan the man despite his broken hand is STILL the man at 10,drops have never
been his forte.Easy penalty misses?no such thing in Finals footy,Steyn would probably
have kicked the Goals the Bulls declined.Incidentally seen some interesting names in
the AB`s training squad also some notable misses.The Marshall Brothers,Tom Taylor
for example.Rene Ranger going to the NH lucky to get a chance in the circumstances.

[Taylorman]

Hi Alan,
Well in this case was actually proven more correct than not. 2 attempts, nil points, two lost opportunities to score tries. That was always the basis of my argument so I'm afraid the tide is still out on that one. I just tink if youre going to go for them, you have to get them...tough...but true regardless.

Tom Taylors not yet AB material. Steady but more of a journeyman I'd say.

Cruden was the better 10 on the day, and not for the first time this year and if there was one primary reason for the loss, it was DC's missed kicks, though that might be a little unfair on him I agree, but certainly no one else individually was more at fault. The one that hit the right upright was easy for a 90% rate kicker all tourny. No excuses there.

But somethings making the saders lose about this point every year where they drop their standards from a big height from the weeks before. The Chiefs main players hadnt played for 3 weeks and the Saders should have capitalised at least on the downside of that.

Predictable squad though no Luke Braid, the true successor to McCaws 7- watch that space. Glad to see TJ Perenara finally there. Hansen said earlier after the French series that as long as Rangers available and playes the way he is, he'll keep picking him. Simple as that. Fact is they BOTH want their cake and to eat it too so its a mutual result that benefits both while hes playing the way he is- he terrorises opposites almost in a caveman style where thinking isnt a great part of his run- thats what makes it so effective, and in todays pc do the right, text booky world thing, is refreshing.

Marshall brothers? notable absences? In who's book. their mums? I like them but theyre not ready yet. better players are there before them.

[emack2]

Crusaders especially have over the years had a lot of journey men in there sides.I like that my
definition of a Journeyman is a player who does his job every time.Not flash but very effective
Marshall,Taylor,Crotty,Guildford,Ellis.Adam,George and Luke Whitelock most of those.
Would be near Test selection for most NH sides.

[Taylorman]

Crusaders especially have over the years had a lot of journey men in there sides.I like that my
definition of a Journeyman is a player who does his job every time.Not flash but very effective
Marshall,Taylor,Crotty,Guildford,Ellis.Adam,George and Luke Whitelock most of those.
Would be near Test selection for most NH sides.

Actually I was going to say that but didnt want to press the fact. The saders are absolutely chocker of them I agree. I remember counting up the number of real AB greats in the last 20 or so years and take out Marshall and Merts, DC, Dagg, McCaw, Thorn and Read there arent a lot more, perhaps Grame bachop and I'm probably missing 2 or 3 more but probably not more than that I'd say. Staggering for a side with so much dominance at the level not to have many more stars up in the next level.

[emack2]

Aron Mauger,Chris Jack,Ali Williams all Greats at sometime in there career,they also serve.Of course if you consider SBW a great then he became a Crusader to ensure a AB place.
Then it is a matter of definition Owen Franks at so young age is among THE best Tight heads in the World and has been for years.Crockett among the the best 2or 3 loose heads,Romano and Sam Whitelock WILL be.Corey Flynn but for his habit of breaking his arm would be among the top Hookers and is still only 32.Ellis is as good as any 9 in NZ currently and has been playing at that level for years.THE Best 9 in World Rugby was a Crusader plying his wares with Samoa now.

[George Carlin]

Saders have always managed to be greater than the sum of their parts though, in the way that Auckland often have not.
 
There were rumours about a Canterbury centre heading to Glasgow and I hoped to hell it would be Crotty as I think he's absolutely quality but similarly didn't think he was ever going to get an AB cap. That was before his two try showcase against the Reds, though. I would rather have Crotty as a Black than Francis Saili at the moment.

[Taylorman]

Saders have always managed to be greater than the sum of their parts though, in the way that Auckland often have not.
 

Thats true George, but there was a day...

Fact is Auckland remains the best producer of rugby talent in the world bar none but with the introduction of professionalism the talent is continuously drained primarily by League before the players hit the pro scene. Between 83- 97 there was no better non international side than Auckland over that period.

[George Carlin]

Saders have always managed to be greater than the sum of their parts though, in the way that Auckland often have not.
 

Thats true George, but there was a day...

Fact is Auckland remains the best producer of rugby talent in the world bar none but with the introduction of professionalism the talent is continuously drained primarily by League before the players hit the pro scene. Between 83- 97 there was no better non international side than Auckland over that period.

Absolutely no denying that Taylorman - I just reminded myself of some of the Aucklanders that came through during that period:
 
Gary Whetton - 1981
Alan Whetton - 1984
John Kirwan - 1984
Grant Fox - 1984
Sean Fitzpatrick - 1986
Joe Stanley - 1986
Michael Jones - 1987
Zinzan Brooke - 1987
Va'aiga Tuigamala - 1989
Olo Brown - 1990
Frank Bunce - 1992
Pat Lam - 1992
Craid Dowd - 1993
Lee Stensness - 1993
Carlos Spencer - 1995
Kees Meeuws - 1998
Xavier Rush - 1998
 
Sold.

[nganboy]

I don't think you should write Stensness or Rush in that list. Now go wash your mouth out or the online equivalent of.

[George Carlin]

I don't think you should write Stensness or Rush in that list. Now go wash your mouth out or the online equivalent of.

 

[aucklandlaurie]

I dont think you should write Stensness or Rush in that list before the likes of:

Terry wright
Steve McDowell
Andy Haden
David kirk
Joe Stanley
John Drake

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I don't think you should write Lee Stencil at all. Those were dark times around our centenary. Like calligraphy books they are thankfully a thing of the past. Like Steve Cleeve and Shane Philpott.

[George Carlin]

I will never dip into Auckland witchcraft ever again. I have learned my lesson.

[Taylorman]

 I actually liked Stensness's game for some reason. Just reminiscing kia...not a lot more for us orks to do until JK gets us back on track....geez we sure took those days for granted. Like winning the first world cup we thought it would go on forever...ha ha...

I remember supporting them late 70's and like the ABs of the era they were hopeless.

The trigger was the 83 match vs Canterbury- Hart vs Wyllie- recall that game so well...Victor simpson running into and over Harris, McMasters try down the sideline, Kirwan somehow putting his left foot (and only his left foot) out in a run to the line on the right wing.

Canterbury thrashed us that day and Harty went on a mission from that point to redeem the side. 1984 was probably the most decisive year in terms of points scored- auks went nuts...then the 85 shield match and the rest is history...

trouble is...its all history now...

[kiakahaaotearoa]

It'll take time to turn things around. Much like it did for Canterbury. The key thing Ted and JK can do for NZ rugby is turn the tide of young talent going to league.

I think the Blues had the attacking prowess this year. They just lacked key players up front who could make the set piece solid. The Blues were guilty of trying to run everything from everywhere.

Canterbury in the late 80s and early 90s were embarrassing. I had to co-support Otago because Speights tasted way better than CD and I liked their play. I also liked the North Harbour team with Bunce and Little. But they were truly dark times for Canterbury. The turning point was the Super final against Auckland where somehow we scored in the dying moments to win the game against a much better side and then the momentum and signings swung our way. Haven't won though since 2008 and we could've had a home final! Still not over that result.

[Taylorman]

Was that So'oalos try? think I just saw it in a replay of yesteryear on reunion.

So in one respect Auckland havnt learnt a thing- running it from everywhere...Kirwan isnt a fan or expert in the subtleties of a good kicking gameplan so he's come up short tactically this year.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

James Kerr. The flukiest of tries. Lee Stenseness in this video.

Still don't know how we won. Blues had so many stars and we had a rag tag fugitive team. Marsh ended up playing for France!

[nganboy]

As I Wellingtonian I can't feel sorry for your guys dips in form. I have witnessed 1 NPC win in 2000 just before I went overseas. I wasn't here when we won the Ranfurly shield in 2008. So up yours.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

 I wouldn't call it a dip in form. We still consistently make the play offs. We win all our home advantage knockout games. The big difference is that we're not top of the table because we don't win the games we should (like the Force or the Highlanders). To give yourselves the best chance, you have to secure home advantage. The Chiefs are reaping the rewards of doing that and showed another time how difficult it is to play away.

[Taylorman]

 I wouldn't call it a dip in form. We still consistently make the play offs. We win all our home advantage knockout games. The big difference is that we're not top of the table because we don't win the games we should (like the Force or the Highlanders). To give yourselves the best chance, you have to secure home advantage. The Chiefs are reaping the rewards of doing that and showed another time how difficult it is to play away.

Absolutely...pity the Auks cant make Eden Park the old fortress it was (and still is for that other team)...

Understand where Ngans coming from, Auks are the same and probably worse given the dynasty they once had. The Chiefs being nearer to home (my old home that is) are more likely to get Auks support so the match was a bit weird to watch for me- I'd be cheering on the Chiefs one minute, then the Saders the next...

The Crusaders are a fantastic tribute to NZ rugby and to be as consistent as they have been for me borders on miraculous in this day and age. They have an insane ability to squeeze the best out of even the most average of players and that, more than the few stars they have (they dont have many- but the ones they do have are all time greats) is the real secret to their success. When they gel as a team theres nothing like it- they all seem of the same mind and its almost eerie sometimes. They're the template for the NZ game and now the Chiefs are starting to benefit from that (via Mr Smith et all).

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