A 2013/2014 Season Thread about Welsh Qualified Players who are playing for French Top 14 teams.

[international197]

I have decided to create this thread, with the intention of keeping myself, and everyone who's interested, up to date with news about Welsh Qualified Players who are playing for a Top 14 French team this season, throughout the 2013/2014 season.

So far, I have gathered that these are the Welsh Qualified Players who are playing for a Top 14 French team this season (please let me know if I have missed anyone out):

Aviron Bayonnais [Top 14 & Amlin]
Mike Phillips

Biarritz Olympique [Top 14 & Amlin]
Ben Broster
http://www.bo-pb.com/index.php/joueurs/joueur-pro/benedict-broster/52810
Aled Brew
http://www.bo-pb.com/index.php/joueurs/joueur-pro/aled-brew/52809

CA Brive [Top 14 & Amlin]
Keiran Murphy
http://www.cabrive-rugby.com/fiche_joueur.php?id=51&v_lang=FR

ASM Clermont Auvergne [Top 14 & Heineken]
Lee Byrne
http://www.asm-rugby.com/lee-byrne-joueur-rugby-asm-clermont-auvergne.html

USA Perpignan [Top 14 & Amlin]
Luke Charteris
http://fr.usap.fr/joueur-pro/charteris-luke-22-148-151-183/
James Hook
http://fr.usap.fr/joueur-pro/hook-james-22-148-154-171/

Racing Mètro 92 [Top 14 & Heineken]
Dan Lydiate
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22937323
Jamie Roberts
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22937323

Here is a Top 14 fixture list for the 2013/2014 season [Top 14 starts on the weekend of the 16/17/18 August 2013 and the grand final will be held on the 31/05/14 or the 01/06/14]:
http://www.lnr.fr/calendrier-resultats-top-14.html

Here is a Heineken Cup fixture list for the 2013/2014 season [Heineken Cup starts on the weekend of the 11/12/13 October 2013 and the grand final will be held on the 24/05/14 at the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff]:
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/fixtures_heineken_cup.php?includeref=411&season=2013-2014&round=1

Here is an Amlin Challenge Cup fixture list for the 2013/2014 season [Heineken Cup starts on the weekend of the 11/12/13 October 2013 and the grand final will be held on the 23/05/14 at Cardiff Arms Park, Cardiff]:
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/amlin_challenge_cup_fixtures.php

Here is a Wales National Rugby Union team fixture list relevant for the 2013/2014 season:
http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/results_fixtures_wales.php

[international197]

Latest news is that Dan Lydiate & Jamie Roberts' Racing Metro will play their, I believe, first friendly, of the 2013/2014 season, against Toulon, at Stade Mayol, on the 02/08/13 at 20h30 French time.

http://www.racing-metro92.com/Equipe_Pro-1.html

I believe it is unlikely that Dan Lydiate & Jamie Roberts will feature in this game as they have recently been on a Lions tour.

Ben Broster & Aled Brew's Biarritz will play newly promoted Oyonnax, also on the 02/08/13, in a pre-season friendly at Stade Aguilera, Biarritz (k.o 19h00 French time).

Luke Charteris & James Hook's Perpignan will play Lee Byrne's ASM Clermont Auvergne, also on the 02/08/13, in a pre-season friendly, I believe at Stade Aime Giral, Perpignan (k.o 19h30 French time).

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Good idea for a thread, 197.

[international197]

James Hook capitaine pour @usap_officiel vs ASM

I believe USAP have tweeted, about 2h ago, that James Hook will be their captain for their friendly match against ASM Clermont Auvergne tommorrow evening.

[The Saint]

Is there much point to this thread? We know who's playing in France and we know which of those that have a realistic chance of playing for Wales.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's not so much who's playing in France, but how they're playing. I don't watch the Top 14, so this will be a useful thread for me.

[The Saint]

But like I said we know who's going to be within a shout and who isn't. Here in order I'll even tell you; Roberts, Lydiate, Phillips, Charteris, Hook. I doubt Byrne or anyone else would get a look in. Even Phillips, Charteris and Hook would be lucky.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Do you also know how every Welsh player based in Wales is going to play this coming season? If you do, give Warren Gatland a tinkle and save him the bother of watching any matches.

[The Saint]

No I don't, but I think it's safe to say that those in France will be the only ones in contention, as it always is.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

So you won't be curious to know how they're playing through the season? So you can assess whether they merit being called up to the national side?

[The Saint]

Depends who you're referring to. I think we have younger and better options at 9 and 10 playing in Wales. We all know Gatland doesn't like Brew and Broster was a novelty call-up (like Warren Fury). If Charteris is fit he could be back in, but I believe there would need to be another 2nd row crisis for that to happen. Therefore I don't see what there is to discuss. BTW, do any Wales fans actually watch Top 14 religiously? Because you'd need info from them Luckless, over a thread where the poster just google search's news websites.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It still saves me from Googling them.  

[The Saint]

Can't believe this has 13 comments already. People might see that and think it's going to be interesting...

[Guest]

Lists!

Would be good to actually have a thread discussing the form of French based Home Nations players who may be in contention of international call ups (after all there aren't just Welsh players in France, Armitage, Beattie, Sexton etc.), as then it might stay near the top of the forum if all countries were commented upon.

Too often last season there were conflicting reports of "Hook playing brilliantly", "Hook inconsistent", and "USAP fans angry because Hook is keeping a youngster out of the team". If there were even a few posters who, combined, watched the games with these players in, although we'd still be reliant upon someone else's analysis, at least it may be more than hear say and chinese-whispered analysis. Unfortunately, don't think the forum is large enough, nor, I would suppose, are there posters who record or watch live French games at the sacrifice of going to the games of the teams they support.

[Brendan]

I think its a good idea. I dont really know how irish players are doing outside of ireland.

Also as saint has said he knows who is going to be in the wales squad, but if he knew how they accually did he might relise why thry play like they do the first few games back.

If hook is going to be captain they must like him even if its just one game.

[The Saint]

Or it could be that Perp are putting out a young team and Hook might be the only international. There is a French poster on this forum who could provide info actually.

[international197]

L'équipe de l'USAP : Hook (cap) - Haughton, Benvenuti, Piukala, Michel - (o) Lopez, (m) Duvenage - Pérez, Purll, Strokosch - R. Taofifenua, Vahaamahina - Jgenti, Terrain, Pulu

L'indpendant are reporting that the above 15 are Perpignan's starting XV to face ASM Clermont tonight.

Charteris is 'still unavailable'.

[Guest]

Is Hook playing at 15?

[international197]

Is Hook playing at 15?

Yes, I think so.

[whocares]

according to an interview in today's french rugby paper midol, USAP backline coach is not yet viewing Hook as a 15. His intention is clearly to have 2 good flyhalves (with Lopez) to cope with injuries and national team duty. that said, they just started looking at the option of putting hook at fullback which could be a good thing as they lack depth and experience there (only 2 I can think off are Joffrey Michel and Sofiane Guitoune, potential is there but not big names yet).

[international197]

http://www.lindependant.fr/2013/08/03/tout-sauf-nul-pour-l-usap,1780190.php

USAP drew against ASM Clermont Auvergne last night 14-14. Apparently, Hook was excellent and showed efficient kicking.

Byrne did not feature for Clermont.

1. Domingo, 2. Kayser, 3. Zirakashvili, 4. Cudmore, 5. Hines, 6. Bonnaire, 7. Vosloo, 8. Chouly, 9. Radosavljevic, 10. Hume, 11. Nalaga, 12. Stanley, 13. Nakaitaci, 14.Sivivatu, 15. Farnoux.

Remplaçants : Paulo, Chaume, Kotze, Pierre, Jacquet, Vermeulen, Roulin, Parra , King, Fofana, Tawalo, Lapandry et Lacrampe

[samuraidragon]

Great idea for a thread. Mike Phillips (consistently poor for Bayonne last season, according to reports), JR and DL are starters  for Wales.  Charteris was a squad member and often starter before he got injured, Hook is a  squad member and Byrne had a call-up last season too.   Unless you take the view that form is irrelevant to Gatland and that there will be no injuries, the form of these  guys should be of great interest to Wales fans.

Let's not kid ourselves about strength in depth in some of these positions. At one stage last seasons, we were struggling to find a fit international quality 2nd row. And despite the fact that MP is not the force he was 3 years ago, nobody has staked a claim to the jersey through outstanding club form.

[whocares]

To be fair to MP he had a very poor first season for Bayonne and was embracing the local night life a tad too much but after being told off by the owner he kept a low profile and had an ok 2nd season.

Anyone really see gatland calling hook again? (Unless biggar, priestland, patchell get all injured).

[The Saint]

Hopefully not. Hook can't cut the mustard any more. It was blatantly evident at the end of 2011. He's Wales' Quade Cooper if you like, but with a lot less skill.

[Guest]

Hopefully not. Hook can't cut the mustard any more. It was blatantly evident at the end of 2011. He's Wales' Quade Cooper if you like, but with a lot less skill.

Harsh on Hook. Cooper threw his toys out of the pram when Deans asked him to change. Hook played at 12, 13 and 15 for many years, and latterly has sat through almost entire international seasons on the bench, without so much as a cursory word the press about how much he wants to play 10 for Wales, but won't complain if he's still involved somewhere in the team. Hook's attitude has been that of a dedicated professional, Cooper's of a child.

I thought he looked decent off the bench in the 2012 GS, and that was encouraging after the really poor World Cup he had. Moving to France, despite playing 10, effectively ended it for him. I'd love to see him back in Wales pushing for the starting shirt, but as none of the four regions need him for the money he would want, even if he took a pay cut, due to all having decent Welsh 10s, it's probably over for him. Biggar and Priestland until 2015, then Patchell might replace Priestland.

[The Saint]

I wasn't comparing attitude's, it was playing styles. Both are highly erratic and can show boat, but are gifted ball players. I don't remember him coming off the bench that often in 2012, not often enough for it to be significant anyway. I don't buy into this "management messed him around by playing him across the backline" either. At the moment, he would fit back into the Ospreys team well. The backline could use his experience.

[Guest]

I don't really agree he was messed around per se, but as he categorically stated he wanted to play 10, and in part his move to France was to ensure he did this on a regular occasion so he might be first choice for Wales, it didn't help him playing him everywhere but there. He certainly hasn't had an equal crack at the 10 shirt under Gatland that Biggar and Priestland have had; he has barely put two games together since 2008 (a bit of research would back this up but i cba), before SJ claimed back the shirt.

I'd say he's similar to Cooper, but much more reliant when stepping with ball in hand, whereas Cooper is better at bringing players onto the ball. Both are flakey, yeah.

Where would you have Hook play for the Ospreys? 12 or 13?

[bedfordwelsh]

Hook may not have had a fair crack at 10 but the guy has over 70 caps and still not managed to ever really be 1st choice, that in itself says a lot to me.

On others I am hoping Charteris regains all is form prior to injury and can push Evans and AWJ all the way

[samuraidragon]

I very much fear that Priestland will be back as first choice for Wales next season. He played a starring role in our 8 match losing streak and had a shocker vs. England in the 2012 GS. Even so he couldn't get dropped it he tried, and it was only injury that ruled him out as starter last season. Meanwhile -

Biggar was overlooked by Howley/ Gatland for the Oz tour in 2012.

Biggar was overlooked by Howley/ Gatland for the Lions in 2013, even though there was an obvious gap for a 3rd fly half.

With Patchell still too raw and Hook not even on the Japan tour, it looks like RP is the favourite for the shirt again.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Priestland would be my starting outside half. When he's on song, he's the best we have at bringing others into play, he has an eye for a gap himself and his kicking out of hand is excellent. That said, when he's not on song he can be a liability - but fortunately, we have Biggar on the bench who now has proper Test match experience under his belt.

[The Saint]

Where would you have Hook play for the Ospreys? 12 or 13?

10 and 13 would be the primary positions I'd say, they'd have Beck and Bishop at 12. They have Biggar as their first choice 10 (though he can be ousted) and no real, established back up.

[Guest]

I very much fear that Priestland will be back as first choice for Wales next season.

Why? People have let rumour cloud their judgement of him. What Priestland did successfully in 2011 and 2012 was accurately distribute the ball to Roberts and others by delivering flat passes, and putting bombs in the air for Roberts to lead the chase. Biggar did pretty much exactly the same thing, with less emphasis on the up and under, in 2013. Whilst Biggar has a more accurate kick, and is a far better goal kicker, Priestland can hoof it further. I'd also suggest Priestland is slightly more attack minded, and less likely to sit deep and trust his boot if in pressure. I think it's perfectly understandable if Priestland starts ahead of Biggar, though harsh on Biggar for not having done anything to be 'dropped'.

Case in point how people whip themselves into believing hype; Biggar got charged down for a try against Ireland, yet that wasn't really commented on despite Wales losing? Wales beat England despite Priestland's charge down, which didn't lead to a try, and he's lambasted as having an awful game? Why? I'm really not sure why Priestland's mistakes are vastly more destructive to the team than Biggar's, or is that just the perception because Wales went on a record losing streak with him in the team? I think many fans are too willing to mistake correlation for causality.

10 and 13 would be the primary positions I'd say, they'd have Beck and Bishop at 12. They have Biggar as their first choice 10 (though he can be ousted) and no real, established back up.

Have the Ospreys given up on Matthew Morgan? I thought Hook liked like a decent 13 for Wales, comfortably his best position bar 10 as he didn't have to tackle back rows or Frans Steyn very often as he did at 12/15.

[bedfordwelsh]

If hes fully fit and on form then I wouldn't have problem with Priestland starting. Hes the best we have at playing it flat and bringing players on at pace.

I hope him, Biggar and then the likes of Patchell and Tovey (maybe) all keep each other on their toes all season and push each other.

[maestegmafia]

If hes fully fit and on form then I wouldn't have problem with Priestland starting.  Hes the best we have at playing it flat and bringing players on at pace.

I hope him, Biggar and then the likes of Patchell and Tovey (maybe) all keep each other on their toes all season and push each other.

And then there are Owen Williams and Steffan Jones showing some good stuff at a young age too...

[samuraidragon]

I very much fear that Priestland will be back as first choice for Wales next season.

Why? People have let rumour cloud their judgement of him. What Priestland did successfully in 2011 and 2012 was accurately distribute the ball to Roberts and others by delivering flat passes, and putting bombs in the air for Roberts to lead the chase. Biggar did pretty much exactly the same thing, with less emphasis on the up and under, in 2013. Whilst Biggar has a more accurate kick, and is a far better goal kicker, Priestland can hoof it further. I'd also suggest Priestland is slightly more attack minded, and less likely to sit deep and trust his boot if in pressure. I think it's perfectly understandable if Priestland starts ahead of Biggar, though harsh on Biggar for not having done anything to be 'dropped'.

Case in point how people whip themselves into believing hype; Biggar got charged down for a try against Ireland, yet that wasn't really commented on despite Wales losing? Wales beat England despite Priestland's charge down, which didn't lead to a try, and he's lambasted as having an awful game? Why? I'm really not sure why Priestland's mistakes are vastly more destructive to the team than Biggar's, or is that just the perception because Wales went on a record losing streak with him in the team? I think many fans are too willing to mistake correlation for causality.

10 and 13 would be the primary positions I'd say, they'd have Beck and Bishop at 12. They have Biggar as their first choice 10 (though he can be ousted) and no real, established back up.

Have the Ospreys given up on Matthew Morgan? I thought Hook liked like a decent 13 for Wales, comfortably his best position bar 10 as he didn't have to tackle back rows or Frans Steyn very often as he did at 12/15.  

No rumours, just hard fact. It wasn't just a charge down. RP butchered everything that came his way and got carded at a crucial juncture. But he was lucky - thanks to a moment of brilliance from Scott Williams, we won the game - so the public says "so what , it didn't matter." If we'd lost that game, he would have been another Gareth Cooper. Yes, Biggar was charged down vs Ireland, but he kept his composure and played very well in the second half, leading the comeback

I'm not going to go into the two successive RP line-kicks that went dead vs NZ or kicking away possession v. Oz in the dying minutes in two successive games. Suffice to say RP's form was so bad he had to go into therapy. And still he wasn't dropped and still one-eyed fans big him up.

[bedfordwelsh]

Samurai,

His form was off, not many will argue with you on that point but was it his fault he wasn't dropped?

If your Country came a calling would you turn it down whatever shape you were in, should he, maybe of done the honourable thing and say look coach I am not upto it at the moment?

I slated Howley (not Priestland) constantly through that period for continually picking him, maybe he though he could play his way back into form but it obviously wasn't happeneing and in the end had a damaging affect on Priestlands confidence.

[samuraidragon]

Samurai,

His form was off, not many will argue with you on that point but was it his fault he wasn't dropped?

If your Country came a calling would you turn it down whatever shape you were in, should he, maybe of done the honourable thing and say look coach I am not upto it at the moment?

I slated Howley (not Priestland) constantly through that period for continually picking him, maybe he though he could play his way back into form but it obviously wasn't happeneing and in the end had a damaging affect on Priestlands confidence.

Not the player's fault, I totally agree. I'm sure RP did the best he could in the circumstances and no player is going to turn down a cap, nor should.  The question, though,  is why the coaching team made those decisions.

If he puts in some top-notch performances for his region,  I'll have no problem with him regaining the shirt. But I'd like to see him actually outperforming  Biggar - and for that matter Hook & Patchell -  rather than being picked as if by rights.

[bedfordwelsh]

Yeah, totally agree on that point NO ONE (but it happens) should just be picked by right.

They all have to put performances is in that deserve being picjked, not wanting this to degenerate into another BOD thread but Gatland proved he can make the big calls so lets hope he now has the guts to do it if any of the big name Welsh players are not in form.

[maestegmafia]

You guys blew this Rhys Priestland/Rob Howley thing totally out of proportion when it happened and you still at it now.

You are highlighting a couple of mistakes in what was not a bad performance by RP making it sound as though he is the worst ten in the world. Howley was right to pick him, he was doing more good than bad. but the team were not clicking and he and Howley were appropriated team scapegoat by the fans...!

[Guest]

No rumours, just hard fact.  It wasn't just a charge down. RP butchered everything that came his way and got carded at a crucial juncture. But he was lucky - thanks to a moment of brilliance from Scott Williams, we won the game - so the public says   "so what , it didn't matter." If we'd lost that game, he would have been another Gareth Cooper.  Yes, Biggar was charged down vs Ireland, but he kept his composure and  played very well in the second half, leading the comeback  

I'm not going to go into the two successive RP line-kicks that went dead vs NZ or kicking away possession v. Oz in the dying minutes in two successive games. Suffice to say RP's form was so bad he had to go into therapy. And still he wasn't dropped and still one-eyed fans big him up.

Right, ok. Those are cold hard facts right there. Not just stating your opinion and providing no evidence? Their respective performances over the last 24 months for Wales have been so similar it's startling you get such different assessments of the players. Priestland 'butchered' very little in the England game, and the charge was very much led by the pack in the second half of the Ireland game. If you can show me what Priestland did wrong in kicking it down field against Australia in the second test then you clearly have a better understanding of rugby than I do. The ball should never have left the ruck in the first place, if Wales cannot hold onto the ball in the forwards for 60 seconds then there is something very wrong. The ball did come to him, and with the backline and totally unprepared to receive the ball, instead of shipping on trouble he put the ball into the Australian 22, lest he get turned over or concede a penalty if he tried to run back up the the support. It was Hibbard's ineptitude to give away 2 consecutive penalties that eventually led to Wales losing the game, but somehow Priestland is responsible.

I'm not too bothered who starts, even as a Scarlets fan. I'd probably say Biggar as he does have a more reliable boot, since neither set the world alight when running the ball. As I've said earlier, Priestland is very much tainted by the results which he played in, and Roberts' absence certainly didn't help him either, since he is the backline gameplan. I think by highlighting missed kicks it goes to show you're not taking into account the full performance, which is then understandable you'd come to the conclusion he was awful. The media loves a story and there's nothing better in Wales than a 10 to slaughter.

I actually think Priestland received therapy because of the new pressure he felt being the first choice 10, rather than his form itself? Pressure undoubtedly exacerbated by the both the TV and paper media playing to the script of 'missing touch lost Wales the game'.

[bedfordwelsh]

You guys blew this Rhys Priestland/Rob Howley thing totally out of proportion when it happened and you still at it now.

You are highlighting a couple of mistakes in what was not a bad performance by RP making it sound as though he is the worst ten in the world. Howley was right to pick him, he was doing more good than bad. but the team were not clicking and he and Howley were appropriated team scapegoat by the fans...!

Maes,

Even after the Lions I am still not convinced Howley has the minerals to be the top dog, IMO he was wrong to consistently pick RP when it was clear to everyone else he was out of form. Yes give him bit of time but then have the balls to replace him if he's not going well which RP wasn't and Howley didn't have the balls.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Well said, Miaow.

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