Accidental hit

I know that if you knock the ball off the tee before you tee-off, it isn't classified as a shot, but today my friend was doing a few pre-shot waggles, accidentally touched the ball and he knocked the ball about 3 feet in front of him. Is that a shot?

Not off the tee Lorus as the ball is not yet 'in play' and your mate hasn't made a stroke at it.
It it were his approach to the green however - as the ball is in play from the moment the first stroke of the hole is played - then it would count and he must replace the ball

That's always been my understanding, i wait to be corrected!

Useful bit of info MPB, I vaguely remember one a few years back where a guy I was playing with, somewhere around the top or just after of his backswing, the ball rolled off the tee peg. He air shotted but called it on himself, picked up the tee and played his 2nd from where it lay. It was a few years ago and I cant't remember now if it was confirmed whether or not he did the right thing. I do remember though that it did take me and the 3rd guy in the group a couple of hundred yards to stop sniggering

I think it's not actually shot, but does incur a one shot penalty and the ball must be replaced where it was prior to being inadvertantly moved.

JAS wrote:Useful bit of info MPB, I vaguely remember one a few years back where a guy I was playing with, somewhere around the top or just after of his backswing, the ball rolled off the tee peg. He air shotted but called it on himself, picked up the tee and played his 2nd from where it lay. It was a few years ago and I cant't remember now if it was confirmed whether or not he did the right thing. I do remember though that it did take me and the 3rd guy in the group a couple of hundred yards to stop sniggering

I'm shocking for stopping myself laughing when things like that happen
I played with a mate not long ago and he duffed one into the water and then dropped and hit the flagstick with the next shot which sent the ball flying miles away. I burst out laughing and he got in a right old strop. Whoopsi

"If a ball, when not in play, falls off a tee or is knocked off a tee by the player in addressing it, it may be re-teed, without penalty. However, if a stroke is made at the ball in these circumstances, whether the ball is moving or not, the stroke counts, but there is no penalty."

The R&A RULES EXPLORER on-line is very good and easy to use.  They have an app for the iPhone too.

BTJ is right - but in the context of the question if you 'nudge' the ball off the tee with a tee shot it's no penalty. Re-tee it and play on. If you do it sometime after the tee shot (like a misjudged practice swing) then the ball must be replaced under penalty of one shot

Bob are you saying something different to me? I think even a practise shot on the tee is no penalty

Can't you just say that if you intend to hit the ball, then it counts - no matter if you actually hit it or not?

...and if you do not intend to hit it, it doesn't count as a stroke (although if you move the ball, you incur a penalty). This means that it is actually not possible to make a deliberate "air shot", which I always think is quite an interesting concept. I was once accused of persuading a lady partner in foursomes to make an "air shot" (which I didn't) but the upshot was we made a net birdie (which we probably wouldn't have done if she'd hit it)!

Err, what?!? to both of the last two posts!

Pedro is right - if you intend to hit it, and miss, then it's counted as a shot.

And it is possible to have a deliberate air shot - although not really in the spirit of the game.

The definition of a stroke is a forward movement of the club with the intention to hit the ball. With a delierbate air shot there is no intention to hit the ball, therefore it is not a stroke.

MustPuttBetter wrote:Bob are you saying something different to me? I think even a practise shot on the tee is no penalty

No - I was agreeing and just using the official wording for clarity.. which it didn't bring.

Bob_the_Job wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:Bob are you saying something different to me? I think even a practise shot on the tee is no penalty

No - I was agreeing and just using the official wording for clarity.. which it didn't bring.

 

golfermartin wrote:The definition of a stroke is a forward movement of the club with the intention to hit the ball. With a delierbate air shot there is no intention to hit the ball, therefore it is not a stroke.

If you are playing a foursomes match (say a mixed foursomes match) and your partner can't carry the pond, so she misses the ball (deliberately) and you step up and smack it miles over, that first attempt has to count - or suffer the penalty for playing out of turn.

George1507 wrote:

golfermartin wrote:The definition of a stroke is a forward movement of the club with the intention to hit the ball. With a delierbate air shot there is no intention to hit the ball, therefore it is not a stroke.

If you are playing a foursomes match (say a mixed foursomes match) and your partner can't carry the pond, so she misses the ball (deliberately) and you step up and smack it miles over, that first attempt has to count - or suffer the penalty for playing out of turn.

You suffer the penalty for playing out of turn. If she deliberately misses the ball, she has not played a stroke and therefore it is still her turn. But why not get her to putt it a few inches / feet / whatever and then you can smack it miles over the water?

The issue here is this 'intentional' air shot. If you intend to miss it and succeed, then I guess you could say it isn't a shot because you didn't intend to hit it. On the other hand, it's against the spirit of the game to deliberately miss it, so you wouldn't admit to it, therefore you'd have to count the 'intentional' miss.

George1507 wrote:The issue here is this 'intentional' air shot. If you intend to miss it and succeed, then I guess you could say it isn't a shot because you didn't intend to hit it. On the other hand, it's against the spirit of the game to deliberately miss it, so you wouldn't admit to it, therefore you'd have to count the 'intentional' miss.

Ahh the cunning double-bluff air shot ... clever

George1507 wrote:The issue here is this 'intentional' air shot. If you intend to miss it and succeed, then I guess you could say it isn't a shot because you didn't intend to hit it. On the other hand, it's against the spirit of the game to deliberately miss it, so you wouldn't admit to it, therefore you'd have to count the 'intentional' miss.

But if you count it, you admit that you wouldn't admit?  

Another rule I dont get .. If you didnt mean to hit it, you get a penalty shot AND you have to replace it .. ? Surely if its counting as a shot you should at least be able to play it as it lies - youre just getting a double penalty for an unintentional action. But rules is rules.

busted wrote:Another rule I dont get .. If you didnt mean to hit it, you get a penalty shot AND you have to replace it .. ? Surely if its counting as a shot you should at least be able to play it as it lies - youre just getting a double penalty for an unintentional action. But rules is rules.

Let's say, for example, that you accidentally hit the ball in the hole when making a practice putt. If you didn't have to replace it, there would be no penalty at all!

If you accidentally hit the ball into the hole while making a practice putt, surely the practice putt became the shot?

lorus59 wrote:If you accidentally hit the ball into the hole while making a practice putt, surely the practice putt became the shot?

No - bcause you didn't intend to hit the ball. See definition of a stroke.

Let's ask Monty about this one....

But why should there be a penalty for an accident ? the chances of it going in the hole would be minimal if you werent even trying to hit it in the first place and youre not gaining from it, as it still counts as a shot .

busted wrote:But why should there be a penalty for an accident ? the chances of it going in the hole would be minimal if you werent even trying to hit it in the first place and youre not gaining from it, as it still counts as a shot .

This is a fundemental of the game of golf. "Ball at rest moved by player". If the player moves the ball other than in the action of making a stroke or as otherwise allowed for in the rules, there is a penalty of one shot and the ball is replaced. Almost always when this rule is infringed it is due to an "accident" because the player doesn't intend the ball to move. For example, when removing a loose impediment, grounding the club and the ball rolling etc.

I still fail to see how youve gained any advantage from accidental moving the ball. If you move it intentionally its just a shot , AND you were trying to do it, and therefore at least aiming !
Even more stupid (imo) is when you move your ball accidentally when searching for it in the rough/leaves etc. Anyhow, its just me, I know the rules and I abide by them