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Fall out from the Lions Tour

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LondonTiger
sirtidychris
Gibson
Portnoy's Complaint
MrsP
Effervescing Elephant
Welshmushroom
HammerofThunor
KiaRose
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Fall out from the Lions Tour - Page 2 Empty Fall out from the Lions Tour

Post by KiaRose Wed 14 Aug 2013, 5:18 pm

First topic message reminder :

When the original Lions tour party was announced I was quite pleased how few Irish players had been called up. This was purely selfish as I recalled those who had been to SA in 2009 and of whom we had seen very little since then - think Luke Fitzgerald for example.

As this year's tour progressed I did wonder at the number of injuries especially the number of damaged hamstrings. Seemed a bit odd that so many players were suffering the same injury. having been injured early in the tour we were told that Tommy Bowe was receiving extra Vitamin D to speed his recovery from his broken hand. At least that is what was reported at the time:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23088752

Now we are told that Bowe has NOT recovered and could be out for 12 weeks with ligament damage

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/provincial/2013/0814/468126-injured-bowe-could-face-12-weeks-on-sidelines/?utm_source=NewsWhip

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23693258

Was Bowe brought back to play for the Lions whilst not fully fit?

In the aftermath of Rory Lamont's comments about players being pressured to play through injuries the SRU Chief Exec said that "We look after our players extremely well and ensure these people are fit, looked after properly and only reintroduced to the field when they're fit enough to do so."

Looking at the Bowe situation should we take the words of the suits with a very large dose of salt (I am quoting the SRU CE, but not targetting him, just using him as an exemplar)? Should pressure be put on coaches, directors of rugby and everyone else who SHOULD be concerned with player welfare to treat it a bit more seriously?

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Post by MrsP Mon 07 Oct 2013, 2:45 pm

laughing 

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 07 Oct 2013, 2:51 pm

lostinwales wrote:It also raises questions about rehabilitation. I should think the right kind of gym training can be very useful in building up specific strength around injuries - but is there a danger of the feeling of the build up in strength hiding an underlying weakness that might have been more helped by different kinds of training?

Does spending too much time in the gym in general during rehabilitation actually have a negative effect on 'toughness' as opposed to strength - and does this lead to players returning from long term injury getting injured again all too quickly?
You just took this string back to where it started, more or less.  Like everything in life, the gym stuff is about getting the balance right.  

The training in the gym is invaluable for preparation for Rubgy.  Strength and muscle mass with weights is critical.  Also builds core, which is also critical (though old-fashioned planks and sit-ups are still great).  But, weights are more or less static exercise.  This is where concepts such as plyometrics comes in.  These activate and strengthen fast twitch muscles.  Finally, exercises for flexibility are numerous, and the last key aspect of gym training.  

To me the problem with gym training is about over-training.  Everyone's body is different.  And there is only so much stress, torque, and impact a person's soft tissue and skeletal structure can handle.  You can see where this is going.  If a person carries too much muscle for their body there is actually increased risk for injury, not less.  And if a player over-trains muscles in one part of his/her body compared to other parts, then there is that same increased risk.  Ans a lot of players work on muscle size compared to strength and flexibility. Again, more injury risk.  

A lot of young up and coming players become enraptured with how their bodies look, equating that with being in proper shape.  It is so important for younger kids to build strength and flexibility together.  As kids grow and change, that is the best opportunity to build it correctly, so gym work and field work is invaluable.  But with kids the line between good training and over training is so fine, all experts agree to err far on the side of caution.  And, I agree.  I would spend more time with flexibility and speed.  Put muscles on carefully.  

During rehab, for adults or kids, it is more or less the same thing.  It is all about balance.  For our athletes, as I wrote previously, much of the problems are expedited rehab programs and the quick return to action.  Every case is different, but in general, proper rehab translates, in my opinion, to more game time by the player and less chance for re-injury.

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Post by emack2 Sat 12 Oct 2013, 4:51 pm

Further thoughts have occurred to me,apart from the obvious ones that all generations
height/weight have increased over the years.My point about given the same benefits many
players of the past could cut it today.The whole way the game is played today is totally
different.Players were no less skilled,in some cases more so and often SH especially much
more naturally strong due to hard physical labour.BUT the rules have changed so much
skills developed no longer used or required.As an example the Scrum,a Tight Head Prop
held up the Scrum,a Loose Head tried to disrupt it,Hookers heeled the ball.Those were
there primary roles.Scrummaging was about technique over brute force,the wheel allowed
the drive to be dissipated including breaking off into a dribbling rush.Rush stopping diving
at the feet of a pack of forwards a required skill.Props secondary role was as lineout players
at 2 and blockers/supporters.Lifting illegal but widely practiced especialliy by Boks,players
jumped then WHEN in the air could be supported coming down.Rule of thumb for Refs if
more than one went against the throw something illegal was .going on.Hookers were a
4th loose forward in 50`s maybe the only one NZ especially were Tight loose forwards etc.
Backs were expected to tackle backs man to man,then you had cover defences,and scrum defences evolved by Sir Wavell Wakefield back in the 1930`s.The Ruck was an organised

thing a loose Scrum with players bound.NOT the mess to day a prop started at his early 20`s
reached full strength around 30 and often went on to 37.
Today every player is expected to tackle,clean out rucks etc.also playing surfaces were
different,ball non standard uncovered,played during the day.It was a Winter Sport in
Summer you played Cricket.
The differences to day League style defences,throwing players in the air,numbers of games.
Gym muscle as opposed to natural,softer surfaces etc.
Today I read of teams fiddling figures to get players involved in collisions back sooner
ignoring the after effects of concussion.Way back you`d have a cold sponge on face,neck,or
up your shirt and play on.One Player an AllBlack was injured and left the field in the 1930`s
the AB`s won with 14 men.This player limped back on to congratulate his team mates,
selectors saw him."Good God,the Man can walk,he will never play for us again!!" he didn't
an unforgiving lot.He atoned by being killed in the Western desert at Tobruk during WW2.
Really there is no simple answer especially as players now expect to play on average about
15 years as opposed to about 7-10 years ago.

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