The 13th Round

Here's one for you historians on V2.

Inspired by watching Rocky II I have always wondered; which fights would have been won and lost had they not entered a 13th+ round? And which fights would have been won or losst had they gone to a 13th round?

Cheers guys.

Tommy Hearns would have got the win vs Leonard in their first encounter.

In recent times, i think Geale would have beaten Barker.

Also think Collazo would have beaten Hatton

Pekchenko wrote:In recent times, i think Geale would have beaten Barker.

Also think Collazo would have beaten Hatton

is that not if they would have entered a 13th round?

sorry, mis-read the thread

First Taylor Chavez fight?

The one that leaps to mind would be Louis Conn which Conn would have taken had it gone to the cards after 12, although am sure Truss will be along to say more on this particular one.

There are a few Brits who lost very good world title fights thanks to those extra three rounds. Winstone-Saldivar II, Conteh-Saad I and McGuigan-Cruz all spring to mind. In all cases the Brits experienced a torrid three rounds at the end which turned their positions from winning ones in to losing ones.

It's amazing to think that Duran would have won a decision over Hagler had it been a twelve round fight as well, albeit it would have been a controversial one!

Others I can think of from the top of my head would be Arguello-Olivares, Bassa-McAuley I, Maxim-Robinson, Marciano-Walcott I, Louis-Conn I, Sanchez-Ford (not sure what the official scores were, mind you, but I had Sal in a world of trouble before he pulled out those last three rounds), Chionoi-Torres I and maybe even McGuigan-Pedroza (again, not sure of the official scores after twelve, but I thought there was nothing in it until Barry started having the time of his life in the final three).

There's probably a shed load of others, though.

Actually, scrub that McGuigan-Pedroza example; just had a look and it turns out the judges were much more impressed with McGuigan between rounds one and twelve than I was, so it wouldn't have made any difference in any case!

It's hard to say though, isn't it? Fighters pace themselves for the number of rounds.

If Leonard came from behind to win the fight by going hell for leather in the 13th/14th, then he probably would have done the same towards the end of a 12 round fight.

McAuley v Bassa I springs to mind. Davey Boy was up on all 3 cards at the end of round 12 before being stopped in the 13th. Has been said before, but it's a great fight and should be seen by everyone!

Hard to think of a better fight inside a UK ring ever, Superfly.

Some people are too quick to forget about Skelton Sprott.

I could well be wrong but I think Jofre was ahead in both Harada fights after the 12th round.

Two more that I've just managed to rattle off in my brain - La Motta's 1950 Middleweight title defence against Dauthuille, and Mike Weaver winning the WBA Heavyweight belt against Dokes with a perfect knockout punch in the closing stages of the fifteenth when a mile behind on points.

What were the scores in Ali Frazier 1 after 12, genuinely have no idea but seem to recall the cards were reasonably close at the finish and obviously Frazier got the knockdown in the last.

Not quite sure, Rowley, but Frazier definitely swept up the final three rounds for me, with the fifteenth being the big clincher as you say.

From memory, I think I had it about even after twelve rounds and it could have been argued a point or so either way, I think. Had it been a twelve rounder it probably would have been one of those decisions which was forever argued, regardless of who got it.

9-6, 11-4, 8-6 at the end so after 12 imagine it would have been a split decision draw.

Peter Jackson/Jim Corbett. Jackson wins, goes on to fight Sullivan... BEATS HIM and and takes his place as the finest HW champion of his (and quite possible ANY) era.

I think this topic would be more interesting if we ask what fight would have been won if there HAD been a 13th round

Seanusarrilius wrote:I think this topic would be more interesting if we ask what fight would have been won if there HAD been a 13th round

Permission to edit Sean  

FreekShow wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:I think this topic would be more interesting if we ask what fight would have been won if there HAD been a 13th round

Permission to edit Sean  

Cheers mate

Seanusarrilius wrote:I think this topic would be more interesting if we ask what fight would have been won if there HAD been a 13th round

I think they're equally interesting but contrasting questions.

For the edited question a recent one that comes to mind is Bute vs Andrade 1. Bute was in dire straights having been knocked senseless at the end of the 12th. Another round could have seen him taken out.

Bruno/McCall. If I remember correctly Bruno was really holding on at the end.

Definitely agree with Bruno-McCall, FreekShow. I know they sometimes say that arguing these kind of scenarios is pointless, because the fighters would have just adjusted their pace and altered their game plans to fit the 12 / 15 round format, but I don't see how Bruno could have paced himself any slower for that fight had it been a fifteen rounder, because it was already a serious slow burner as it was!

In terms of other twelve rounders which would have had different results over fifteen.....

The first Marquez-Pacquiao fight, for starters. Marquez had Manny's code well and truly cracked by the championship rounds of that fight and I could only see that continuing between the thirteenth and fifteenth.

Toney-McCallum I. Mike didn't look to have much left come the final bell, and was out on his feet in those final moments. On the other hand, Toney would have lost the decision (well, he did lose, just somehow only on one scorecard) to Tiberi with another three rounds, given how knackered and out of puff he was after twelve.

Camacho looked just about done after twelve with Rosario, too, and had been hanging on desperately towards the end. Just last year we had Martinez all over the shop and out of gas in the twelfth against Chavez Jr, and before that I feel there's a chance Froch could possibly have snuck past Kessler in their first fight with an extra nine minutes, although I wouldn't say that with a load of confidence.

If Froch/Dirrell had gone an extra three rounds, Froch would be a footnote in SM history

Considered putting that one down myself, Dave, but couldn't bring myself to! No doubt that Dirrell was bossing the championship rounds in that one, and Froch didn't have an answer to the speed. I suspect you're right.

Groves/DeGale would possibly have gone Chunky's way over 15.

Lewis/Holyfield I & II would have gone to Lennox although after the first win, there wouldn't have been much clamour for a rematch.

Hopkins/Calzaghe goes to Calzaghe over 15

Rowley wrote:Some people are too quick to forget about Skelton Sprott.

I'll never, ever, forget that fight as long as I live.

88Chris05 wrote:Actually, scrub that McGuigan-Pedroza example; just had a look and it turns out the judges were much more impressed with McGuigan between rounds one and twelve than I was, so it wouldn't have made any difference in any case!

McGuigan was superb the night against Pedroza, the fight wasn't even close,there would have been a riot at Loftus road if Pedroza had been given the decision.

McGuigan was definitely the better fighter on the night, Nico. No arguments there. I had him a clear winner in the end. My point is that I didn't really consider that to be the case after twelve.

I think (and it's just my opinion) that the fact that McGuigan was winning his rounds more clearly and dominantly than Pedroza was winning his gave the impression that Barry was dominating the first twelve rounds a little more than he actually was. After that point, he obviously gave Pedroza a shellacking.

As I said, just my opinion, but I thought Pedroza produced a great effort in the eleventh and twelfth rounds to keep himself within touching distance or something like it, before McGuigan really broke him decisively in the thirteenth.

In his book, McGuigan himself says that after the final bell he was confident he'd done enough, but also felt that it was relatively close and was asking his team if they felt they'd won it for sure. Excellent performance from both men and there's no doubting that McGuigan was the victor, I just think the scorecards did Pedroza a disservice.

88Chris05 wrote:McGuigan was definitely the better fighter on the night, Nico. No arguments there. I had him a clear winner in the end. My point is that I didn't really consider that to be the case after twelve.

I think (and it's just my opinion) that the fact that McGuigan was winning his rounds more clearly and dominantly than Pedroza was winning his gave the impression that Barry was dominating the first twelve rounds a little more than he actually was. After that point, he obviously gave Pedroza a shellacking.

As I said, just my opinion, but I thought Pedroza produced a great effort in the eleventh and twelfth rounds to keep himself within touching distance or something like it, before McGuigan really broke him decisively in the thirteenth.

In his book, McGuigan himself says that after the final bell he was confident he'd done enough, but also felt that it was relatively close and was asking his team if they felt they'd won it for sure. Excellent performance from both men and there's no doubting that McGuigan was the victor, I just think the scorecards did Pedroza a disservice.

Fair play best atmosphere I've ever been too for a live fight electric but the Irish never do hold back when it comes to one of their own.

FreekShow wrote:Bruno/McCall. If I remember correctly Bruno was really holding on at the end.

good shout!

Lucian Bute vs Andrade 1

DAVE667 wrote:If Froch/Dirrell had gone an extra three rounds, Froch would be a footnote in SM history

If that fight had gone another 3 rounds the suicide rate in England would have increased by about 100000% Dire fight. Thanks Dirrell, you talented but infuriating man.

If also say Martinez vs Chavez Jr......

Many think that Hagler needed the extra 3 rounds against Duran? Or that he simply could have put his foot on the gas and got the job done earlier if needed be?

Not sure if Timothy Bradley would have survived another round against Ruslan Provodnikov.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

FreekShow wrote:Bruno/McCall. If I remember correctly Bruno was really holding on at the end.

good shout!

Can't believe this fight was 18 years ago! Just checked up on the scorecards which read 117-111, 117-111, 115-113.

Haven't watched the fight since but I'd imagine the 115-113 was probably more accurate if my memory serves me correct.

Has there ever been a more popular result achieved by a British boxer? I welled up a little  

Nico the gman wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:McGuigan was definitely the better fighter on the night, Nico. No arguments there. I had him a clear winner in the end. My point is that I didn't really consider that to be the case after twelve.

I think (and it's just my opinion) that the fact that McGuigan was winning his rounds more clearly and dominantly than Pedroza was winning his gave the impression that Barry was dominating the first twelve rounds a little more than he actually was. After that point, he obviously gave Pedroza a shellacking.

As I said, just my opinion, but I thought Pedroza produced a great effort in the eleventh and twelfth rounds to keep himself within touching distance or something like it, before McGuigan really broke him decisively in the thirteenth.

In his book, McGuigan himself says that after the final bell he was confident he'd done enough, but also felt that it was relatively close and was asking his team if they felt they'd won it for sure. Excellent performance from both men and there's no doubting that McGuigan was the victor, I just think the scorecards did Pedroza a disservice.

Fair play best atmosphere I've ever been too for a live fight electric but the Irish never do hold back when it comes to one of their own.

We are talking about the United Kingdom's own, Barry McGuigan, aren't we?

superflyweight wrote:We are talking about the United Kingdom's own, Barry McGuigan, aren't we?  

Thanks for that super, much appreciated. Shall I cancel my appointments for the day now?

FreekShow wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

FreekShow wrote:Bruno/McCall. If I remember correctly Bruno was really holding on at the end.

good shout!

Can't believe this fight was 18 years ago! Just checked up on the scorecards which read 117-111, 117-111, 115-113.

Haven't watched the fight since but I'd imagine the 115-113 was probably more accurate if my memory serves me correct.

Has there ever been a more popular result achieved by a British boxer? I welled up a little  

Me too, but I went to the toilet and wiped the tip with a square of toilet paper and was fine for the rest of the night.

FreekShow wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

FreekShow wrote:Bruno/McCall. If I remember correctly Bruno was really holding on at the end.

good shout!

Can't believe this fight was 18 years ago! Just checked up on the scorecards which read 117-111, 117-111, 115-113.

Haven't watched the fight since but I'd imagine the 115-113 was probably more accurate if my memory serves me correct.

Has there ever been a more popular result achieved by a British boxer? I welled up a little  

I was at that fight. What a fantastic evening that was. I didn't even really like Frank that much but the atmosphere that evening was amazing. Benn pounding the ring apron all the way through it, good memories.

You just knew from about half way that Bruno was going to do it after all the disappointments he had been through up to that night but you also knew that he would have to go through some tense moments. The old Wembley Stadium was rocking at the end. Great stuff.

You can see me on TV at one point as well when the camera pans round the crowd. Wearing a ghastly old school Adidas hoody with bleach blond hair. What a knob I must have looked.

I used to have bleach blond hair as well Tina. In another coincidence I also looked a knob.

When I was at school I once had an Adidas sign cut into my hair. It was all the rage.

Rowley wrote:I used to have bleach blond hair as well Tina. In another coincidence I also looked a knob.

There is no excuse for it. Even as a 19 year old at the time I should have been bright enough to know better.

I think that night was Benn's return to action after the McClellan fight as well although my memory may be playing tricks and I can't get on boxrec. Really was a great night. I remember the laser show accompanying to fighters to the ring and McCall wearing some kind of towel round himself looking, as he always did, on the verge of a breakdown.

Rowley wrote:I used to have bleach blond hair as well Tina. In another coincidence I also looked a knob.

Gazza's got a lot to answer for. My mate was sporting that look with a bright yellow Kappa tracksuit back then- pure class

Rowley wrote:I used to have bleach blond hair as well Tina. In another coincidence I also looked a knob.

I tried it once (doesn't actually work that well on jet black hair), but unlike you two I actually looked really cool and sophisticated.

Pekchenko wrote:

Rowley wrote:I used to have bleach blond hair as well Tina. In another coincidence I also looked a knob.

Gazza's got a lot to answer for. My mate was sporting that look with a bright yellow Kappa tracksuit back then- pure class

I think Robbie Williams started the bleach blond craze, from memory. He was certainly my inspiration, as he has been throughout my life.

When I had bleach blond hair I grew a goatee and a mate that is a hairdresser tried to bleach that as well. Take it from me peroxide on your face hurts. A lot.