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Does HansenBall Put First Five's in the Firing Line?

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sun 25 Aug 2013, 3:21 pm

The Shagmeister had the All Blacks playing an aesthetically pleasing brand of high tempo rugby with such skill and proficiency that the NZ Herald's notoriously modest journalists were forced to compose a swooning eulogy for the hope of any other approach yesterday. Simply no other game plan has a chance against HansenBall and luckily for NZ no other team have the players to execute it. Phew. NZ should remain dominant for a decade then.

But, is this particular variant of 15 man flat attack putting the pivots into vulnerable positions? Is it merely coincidence that the worlds top five first five's:
Carter, Cruden, Barrett, Taylor and Slade are all on the injury list? 

Is the whipping pass of Aaron Smith putting the playmakers in jeopardy as they stand in the opposition defensive line and Marshall strike runners into the gaps in the rush defenses? 

Should NZ look to deepen the attack, and hide the pivots from the kind if brutal repetitive contact by looking to the SA and Irish style of standing 10 meters deep and just booting the ball instead of running it? Or the wallaby approach of hiding the pivot away from contact altogether by either moving him to full back on defence (cooper) or having him mindlessly pass the ball before anyone can reach him (toomua)?  Should NZ look to the welsh approach of playing your third best fly half for 75 minutes if every game to prevent injury to the prime play maker? Or take the English approach of using the coaches son instead of anyone who's injury might put future prospects in jeopardy?

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Post by alanmackie6 Sun 25 Aug 2013, 9:28 pm

All hail the great wumeister:laughing: The 5 10`s are not rated WORLDS 1-5 or near it DC ,and Crudon currently maybe 1-2 in that order.There has been 2 ways to beat the AB`s outmuscle them by SA on occasions and rarely England /France.Or move them around
at speed like Australia and France on occasion.In 2002/3 John Mitchell went down that road
first 2 3Ns matches 50 points away wins,by the return home matches it was narrow victories.
The current side is in rebuild mode and key players at1, 2,6,7,10,12,13 all may not make 2015 RWC.
Players depth in Nz is legend but look really deeply ,3 top class Locks,2 Props,1 first class 10,
mid field looks bare etc.
Off course there are players coming thru but are not as yet as good as those replaced yet.
Does1991, 1998,2004,or 2009 ring any bells.
A 15% improvement aim sounds good but is it realistic were the AB`s 15% better this week?
Teams like Australia especially when there injured return will get better,Beale,Barnes,Ioane,
Pocock,Cooper,how can you leave George Smith out on recent form.All OZ needs is leaders
and decision makers.Most of the side are 24-7 tops many only a couple of caps they will get
better.

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Post by blackcanelion Mon 26 Aug 2013, 12:51 am

Behind the wind up it's a really good question. There seems to a be a trend with injured flyhalfs in the last few years. I wonder if's the taking the ball to the line and the increased pressure/power from defences.

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Post by Taylorman Mon 26 Aug 2013, 1:03 am

Yet the injuries are not resulting from contact- well Tom Taylors ribs looks to have been. Theyre all tendons, archilles and things- Goosen and Carter got them from goalkicking practice of all things.

Perhaps its sudden overstretching as you say when taking the line on. Short spurts over short distances...

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Post by blackcanelion Mon 26 Aug 2013, 1:06 am

Maybe it's the fast paced game. NZ 1st fives don't tend to sit in the pocket. Maybe, it's the amount of running and legwork over the match. I wonder if we should rotate a la half backs.

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Post by disneychilly Mon 26 Aug 2013, 11:33 am

You're on a roll GE.

We have no need whatsoever to revert to a deep backline. Aaron Smith's pass enables us to play flat and get our multi-phase play into action and the fact that NZ is the best passing side in the game (at present possibly the best ever with Macqueen's Wallabies) will exploit teams who cannot cope with the pace of the game.

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Post by alanmackie6 Mon 26 Aug 2013, 4:18 pm

IF you want a serious discussion I will give you one,cut out the tactical mumbo jumbo"Flat Line"."Attacking the Line","sitting in the pocket etc.Just look into the past number 10 is a 5/8position.
A utility one incumbent is expected to cover 10,12,15,in NZ Rugby at least in NZ.
What do you expect of the modern player let alone your 10 in NZ Rugby,play ITM,Super.Test
Rugby and train all but maybe 4-6 weeks a year.Pre season Super15 warm ups,then the Comp interspersed with June Tests,4Ns,Lions,Nov tests.
Pressure to perform is constent,coaches don`t risk key assets,many injuries in amateur days
would have been worked off etc.Muscle was from hard work,not gym work also look what you
expect your 10 to do.EVERYTHING tackle,cleanout rucks,run,pass,kick.
Since "Sicknote"[Jonnie Wilkinson"decided to tackle anything that moved with poor technique.It earned plaudits as a Great 10 defensively arguably best ever but at what a cost
before him 10`s hid and forwards tackled each other.
9 and 10 are and always have been targeted by opposing forwards incidentally players like DC
may have had the odd injury.JW spent literally years injured and had to re train his tackling and goal kicking technique several times.
League style Defence now means every player has to tackle ,ruck etc.
Too much Rugby at high intensity,if you start rotating players and start losing who gets the stick.?

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