Should Wales mirror the NZ sabbatical approach?

There is an interesting article here from Andy Irvine: http://www.espn.co.uk/wales/rugby/story/196083.html

Andy Irvine wrote:British & Irish Lions tour manager Andy Irvine has tipped Wales to be in with a shout of winning the 2015 Rugby World Cup but said any success is dependent on them keeping their older players in fine fettle over the next couple of years.

I agree with the part in bold. For us to even compete with the other teams we need our top players available as we've seen that we often fall apart when a few of the big names are out. In my mind there is no doubt that some senior players need a sabbatical, time out from the game in order to 'preserve' them for the next RWC. The obvious name here is Adam Jones, Irvine goes on to mention Phillips too but I think the Lions tour showed he's become a bit surplus to requirements. He's been a fundamental part of the team for years but his game has gone backwards in this last year. Aside from our tighthead do we need to preserve more guys in the build up to the tournament? We could do the same with Gethin Jenkins but if that happens I believe somebody like Rhys Gill will come in and take over. He's a player with little international experience that has impressed me every time he has played.

I think the ones who would most vital to the team by 2015 will be;
Adam Jones
Leigh Halfpenny
George North
Jamie Roberts

The other possible two are Ryan Jones and Gethin Jenkins.

While these guys are rested we'll have to look at building depth. So Rhys Gill, Craig Mitchell/Samson Lee, Rhys Patchell, Cory Allen, Jack Dixon, Liam Williams, Eli Walker each come into the squad and get their opportunity. We also have some No.9's available, it's just a case of whether they get picked. I may be in a minority but I believe Gareth Davies (Scarlets) and Jonathan Evans (Dragons) have the potential, and would play second fiddle to Lloyd Williams who seems to have improved his game.

What do we think about this approach?

I dont think its so much an issue in Wales as quite a few Welsh nationals hardly play for their regions during the season.

That's more to do with injury and a long season though, rather than preserve them with the sabbatical idea.

The thing is with Wales, and if you think about this you might agree with me, is that we are only now and perhaps not really fully getting out of the amateur ethos of the game, what we are getting is players who all of a sudden found themselves being professional in the fact that they were getting played to play rugby being coached by amateur coaches, thus our players even though they were pros, still had that amateur attitude towards rugby, now, we are getting players who are being coached by ex players, who were pros themselves but were being coached by amateurs. Please, stay with me on this, until we get players like Ryan Jones, Adam Jones, and the like into coaching, then we will reap the rewards of PROFESSIONAL coaches coaching PROFESSIONAL players. Until we have this where coaches who know the score as they have put the right commitment in during their playing years and are now perhaps coaching can show our young professionals the right way of doing things. God I hope I have explained myself adequately here. Because Wales were such a shambles during the 90's leading up until about 2003-2004 it has taken us a generation of playing to eradicate the amateur ethos of our game that other nations were doing about a decade or so before us. Right now that I have said all this, a sabbatical is a ridiculous idea as an athlete needs the exorcise and the feel of the game to keep being on top of it, I would be more for the "cherry pick" the games they play idea. I am going now because my head hurts.

It wasn't ridiculous for McCaw. Carter may be due one also, rest those calves of his. Ireland could probably cherry pick, due to the system they have in place.

Yes. They should rest Adam Jones. I suspect that the WRU will not get a chance to do so as I have been reading that he is considering a French contract, and no French club is going to pay for him to not play. He is by far and away the most irreplaceable (not best) player that you have, and is crucial to your 2015 bid. The other players I would play, and cross your fingers. If I were you I wouldn't pick Phillips. He is capable of an absolute blinder, but it comes at the cost of several slow and ponderous games. Halfpenny is just a gem.

I, of course, hope England prevail over you and make it to the knock-out stages. However, I would like us to do so against your best side, even though I feel our hopes would be slim to possible.

Great article Saint. Agree with you entirely. Wales are in a great spot and it would be a shame for the wheels to fall off now.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Great article Saint. Agree with you entirely. Wales are in a great spot and it would be a shame for the wheels to fall off now.

 Gareth and Ghost or Wum and Numb, a perfect relationship guys.

I'm not sure Wales can. NZ's sabbatical system works because the players are centrally contracted.  It's not going to work if you have players contracted to clubs, particularly if they are foreign. A key part of the NZ system is being able to give players a proper break, or an opportunity for a change of environment.

To give you an idea. Say you want to give George North a break. He's contracted to an English club. This means he can't take a club break. Given that the autumn and 6 nations occurs concurrently with the Autumn series and 6 Nations, resting him internationally will just see him playing domestically. In terms of the summer series. You can scrub the Lions years, which leave 3 years. It's possible to rest him one summer tour and get away with it. That's because Wales has got commitments to SH unions to supply a quality team. If he does have international break, the reality is he'll probably go into preseason training for his club.

To some degree Norther n players get a break anyway. The World Cup year provides optimal preparation for NH teams. The players finish the year with national sides and start again for the world cup. For it to work I think they would have to come off club contract for 1/2 a year.

Presumably a national sabbatical could come with it without prior agreement of a club sabbatical depending on what the individual player chooses and what the national union would agree.

The NZRU agreed a sabbatical for DC that included provision for him to play in France. I don't see the difference.

Young guys can be managed. Older players less so. Adam Jones perhaps... anyone else?

Wales or any other European contender doesn't have that long to start building momentum... its one thing beating all in Europe but if you can't beat the SH giants on a regular basis you have no chance.... and they don't have that many chances left up to RWC15. Without Adam Jones they would have zero chance of building this momentum.

so I would say no.

blackcanelion wrote:I'm not sure Wales can. NZ's sabbatical system works because the players are centrally contracted.  It's not going to work if you have players contracted to clubs, particularly if they are foreign. A key part of the NZ system is being able to give players a proper break, or an opportunity for a change of environment.

To give you an idea. Say you want to give George North a break. He's contracted to an English club. This means he can't take a club break. Given that the autumn and 6 nations occurs concurrently with the Autumn series and 6 Nations, resting him internationally will just see him playing domestically. In terms of the summer series. You can scrub the Lions years, which leave 3 years. It's possible to rest him one summer tour and get away with it. That's because Wales has got commitments to SH unions to supply a quality team. If he does have international break, the reality is he'll probably go into preseason training for his club.

To some degree Norther n players get a break anyway. The World Cup year provides optimal preparation for NH teams. The players finish the year with national sides and start again for the world cup. For it to work I think they would have to come off club contract for 1/2 a year.

Yeah it's a problem, so first priority would be getting them back in Wales. WRU wouldn't pay an English club in the hope that they'd release a player. I agree with your final statement though.

tigerleghorn wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Great article Saint. Agree with you entirely. Wales are in a great spot and it would be a shame for the wheels to fall off now.

 Gareth and Ghost or Wum and Numb, a perfect relationship guys.

Tiger can you explain to me what warranted that insult?

Some absurd obsession?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Presumably a national sabbatical could come with it without prior agreement of a club sabbatical depending on what the individual player chooses and what the national union would agree.

The NZRU agreed a sabbatical for DC that included provision for him to play in France. I don't see the difference.

My take on it is that there is more than one reason to ive players sebaticles. In Carters case, it gave him an opportinty to play in Europe out of the intensity of the NZ public. It's a mental and emotional break.

I thought that was more to do with the payout he was getting. If he had the 900,000 euro's he wouldn't be looking at a 4 year contract in France just after the 2011 RWC would he. He would well be in the spotlight in Europe too for being Carter. McCaw's sabbatical was a smart idea. He even made his way to Reading for the races during his time off.

Biltong wrote:

tigerleghorn wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Great article Saint. Agree with you entirely. Wales are in a great spot and it would be a shame for the wheels to fall off now.

 Gareth and Ghost or Wum and Numb, a perfect relationship guys.

Tiger can you explain to me what warranted that insult?

Saint and I are both passionate contributors who speak out opinions freely and back up our words with facts and logic.  We don't see eye to eye on many things, but our motivation comes from the same place. To open the eyes of sheep who would be led by the media. I know not who these others you refer to are.

The Saint wrote:I thought that was more to do with the payout he was getting. If he had the 900,000 euro's he wouldn't be looking at a 4 year contract in France just after the 2011 RWC would he. He would well be in the spotlight in Europe too for being Carter. McCaw's sabbatical was a smart idea. He even made his way to Reading for the races during his time off.

That too. It's about keeping people playing, enthused, uninjured. It's not going to be the same for everyone. It's a job now. Carter effectively went to do his OE. The NZRFU gave certainty to come back to.

There have only been 3 in NZ thus far. I don't think there may be any that need one soon, except perhaps for Conrad Smith.

Aside from the technicalities, which would probably make it impossible, why would we want to? Only Adam Jones would really benefit from sustained rest, he's reaching an age where, mid way through 2014, he may simply feel his body is winding down. He would also, due to the inexplosive nature of a tighthead, not lose match fitness to the same extent as any of the backs. Yet with the new scrum laws, any absence would see him lose ground on his rivals. So would it be beneficial? Probably not.

Hopefully we'll still have the Ospreys pack playing for the Ospreys come 2015, which means post-'2015 6N, the players can be managed correctly (any longer term injuries operated on, any niggles allowed time to rest) so the Welsh team ends the season without any horrific injury crisis. That leads to a solid and competitive World Cup camp, and we saw last WC what a well drilled and fully fit Welsh squad can do. I don't think we'll be as lucky with injuries as we were, but it's far better to manage that 6 month run up to the WC correctly than give a player a year off playing.