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Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:15 pm
The 1980s were the glory days for me, I was born, grew up, and found football. My first memory of football is Michael Thomas's goal to win the league for Arsenal in 1989. However as much as it was significant in sporting terms, it had little to no impact outside of the game.
What I want you to do is tell me what you think is the most important moment in English football, not from a footballing perspective, but from a broader perspective - taking into account the social context and impact, financial, any longer-term sporting significance - basically anything that meant the moment had a wider significance other than just a footballing one. And I want you to tell me which moment was the most important.
The team with the best choice and explanation of why they chose that particular moment in English football will win, and from the losing team, one of you will be fired.
These are the teams for this week - Cherries will lead Team Moyes.
Team Moyes: Trebs, Cherries (Team Leader), Gregers, Nando, Marky
What I want you to do is tell me what you think is the most important moment in English football, not from a footballing perspective, but from a broader perspective - taking into account the social context and impact, financial, any longer-term sporting significance - basically anything that meant the moment had a wider significance other than just a footballing one. And I want you to tell me which moment was the most important.
The team with the best choice and explanation of why they chose that particular moment in English football will win, and from the losing team, one of you will be fired.
These are the teams for this week - Cherries will lead Team Moyes.
Team Moyes: Trebs, Cherries (Team Leader), Gregers, Nando, Marky
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:17 pm
Far be it for me to tread on Cherries' toes as team leader, but is it worth us all suggesting ideas for this?
For me I'd choose the introduction of the Premier League in 1992. It transformed the English game for various reasons.
For me I'd choose the introduction of the Premier League in 1992. It transformed the English game for various reasons.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Fernando Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:37 pm
What about the creation of the Football League in 1888 surely that set up English football as it today. Eventually building up create more divisions etc
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Trebs Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:41 pm
Hillsborough
Introduction of the Premier League in the early 90's
World Cup '66
Munich (Means a lot to me but I'm not sure how much it did to English football)
All come to mind.
Introduction of the Premier League in the early 90's
World Cup '66
Munich (Means a lot to me but I'm not sure how much it did to English football)
All come to mind.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:19 pm
For Hillsborough, add Heysel as another massive factor. Seeing as it caused a ban on English clubs playing European football for years and made clubs sort out their hooligan elements.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:37 pm
Alrights lads, what ideas you got, for me I'm thinking
Hillsbourough
Start of premier league
World Cup final
But the one I'm favouring ATM is the European ban, the social aspect of that must have been huge.
However Start of BPL may be big wasn't Alive for any of these so I need some of the more experienced heads to help me out
Hillsbourough
Start of premier league
World Cup final
But the one I'm favouring ATM is the European ban, the social aspect of that must have been huge.
However Start of BPL may be big wasn't Alive for any of these so I need some of the more experienced heads to help me out
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:38 pm
Didn't see nandos, the creation of the football league was massive, first one of its kinds, most of modern day football not just in England but the world
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Trebs Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:01 pm
Cherries, do you have any kind of jobs you want us to do? Maybe split us up researching different eras?
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:44 pm
Yes good idea
Firstly as a team we need to come to a conclusion on the moment then we will research separate areas ,
1888 creation of FL
Hillsbourough
WC 66
Start of PL
Heysel , Euro Ban
As a team we need to decode what's the most important, I'd like all your input before a final descision is made,
My prefered one would be the creation of the football league , however i also like Heysel as that has a lot with football hooliganism which had a lot of impact outside of football
Firstly as a team we need to come to a conclusion on the moment then we will research separate areas ,
1888 creation of FL
Hillsbourough
WC 66
Start of PL
Heysel , Euro Ban
As a team we need to decode what's the most important, I'd like all your input before a final descision is made,
My prefered one would be the creation of the football league , however i also like Heysel as that has a lot with football hooliganism which had a lot of impact outside of football
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Trebs Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:46 pm
I think Hillsborough had more of an effect, definitely more coverage outside of football and put an end to standing areas in stadiums, football fans in this country have (generally) behaved well since. Personally I think it's a defining moment. The Premier League creation would be second for me.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:48 pm
I agree with hillsbrough actually, the fact the fallout remains to this day , if everyone fine I think we should go down the hillsbrough route
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:16 am
It's 100% your decision Cherries, but my opinion is I wouldn't touch Hillsborough seeing as there's still so much to come out about that. Can of worms is the expression that comes to mind.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:07 am
As of now I'm favouring Hillsbourough or Heysel
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:18 am
I want a team descision for this as I'm a man of the people, and I want a WHOLE team input not just 3 or 4 of us
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Trebs Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:37 am
I say Hillsborough, happy to take the credit/fall on the sword either way.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:20 pm
I'm happy to go either way, I'm preferring these two as they have had a massive impact of football today as well a back then,
I'd like some input form other team member who ain't already, otherwise I'm making my descision at 6
I'd like some input form other team member who ain't already, otherwise I'm making my descision at 6
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:44 pm
Personally Heysel because of the consequences it had on English clubs being banned from European competition leading to an end of the hooligan years of the eighties.onlytreblewinners wrote:What would you go for Marky?
Hillsborough, as tragic as it was, the consequences were basically all seater stadiums.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:47 pm
Unless we do a group of events? Heysel, Hillsborough and the Bradford fire were all tragic events in the mid to late 80's that collectively led to widespread changes in how clubs took responsibility for their fans safety as well as making significant changes to their stadiums. All three were linked in as much as in all three, people were killed, regardless of who caused it, by poor quality and unsafe stadiums.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:14 pm
Good idea marky , however we were asked for a moment , that idea may pay off big time, however, it's a gamble, but I'm willing to take it
1985-89, the darkest days of English football
1985-89, the darkest days of English football
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:33 pm
After reading he intro I think he wants one particular moment and I'm torn by Heysel and hillsbrough.
However as a team I've hosed for us Heysel , as it did result in a lengthy euro ban andpervectly shows english hooliganism at the time, which is a rich topic and has huge footballing as social on sequence
However as a team I've hosed for us Heysel , as it did result in a lengthy euro ban andpervectly shows english hooliganism at the time, which is a rich topic and has huge footballing as social on sequence
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:41 pm
Before I issue roles i need to know how many of us are here n interested
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:48 pm
Right could you do me the immdiate consequences , footballing that is.
Marky, you seem to be around so could you cover social consquences.
Myself will give a quick insight to the incident and a bit about football hooliganism in general
Marky, you seem to be around so could you cover social consquences.
Myself will give a quick insight to the incident and a bit about football hooliganism in general
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Trebs Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:54 pm
Immediate consequences of Heysel, that's fine. I'll have something by late tonight 
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:16 pm
Sounds good. Deadline is a week on Monday so I don't see the need to rush, but I'll do a little research first and come up with something.cherriesfna wrote:Marky, you seem to be around so could you cover social consquences.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by cherriesfna Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:34 pm
Sweet guys, no rush however but like everything by Monday sowe have a template for next week,
So we'll "meet" on monday with what we got
So we'll "meet" on monday with what we got
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Trebs Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:28 pm
The Heysel Stadium Disaster caused UEFA to ban all English clubs competing in Europe, originally indefinitely but this was later set at five years. For a short period of time, FIFA also intervened, banning clubs from competing in friendly matches outside of England which was revoked earlier. Everton, who were one of the top sides at the time of the disaster had won the Super Cup that year and had qualified for Europe the following season being one of the favourites to win, but were stripped of that opportunity. All in all, 16 teams were prevented from playing in Europe.
Some of the top players in the First Division left to join foreign clubs. This was due to the availability of the European football and also due to the higher wages available. Mark Hughes and Gary Lineker were both signed by Barcelona, the latter winning the European Cup Winner's Cup. Chris Waddle also had notable success with Marseille reaching the European Cup Final. Arsenal were the first team to return to the European Cup in 1991, being knocked out in the Second Round.
Some of the top players in the First Division left to join foreign clubs. This was due to the availability of the European football and also due to the higher wages available. Mark Hughes and Gary Lineker were both signed by Barcelona, the latter winning the European Cup Winner's Cup. Chris Waddle also had notable success with Marseille reaching the European Cup Final. Arsenal were the first team to return to the European Cup in 1991, being knocked out in the Second Round.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:32 pm
Brace yourselves, I've spent 4 days researching and writing this. Once I started, it just flowed and flowed!
The Social Consequences of Heysel
The Social Consequences of Heysel
- Spoiler:
- With rioting football fans being fingered as the main cause of the Heysel tragedy, Heysel is seen as the end of hooliganism in English football. While it still rears it’s ugly head from time to time, the events of 1985 was the beginning of the end for the Football Casual.
Football hooligans seemed to revel in the publicity which their destructive hobby afforded them. A number of organised firms emerged into the headlines- amongst them the Chelsea Headhunters, Millwall’s Bushwackers, Birmingham’s Zulus & West Ham’s InterCity Firm (ICF). These firms featured hundreds upon hundreds of young males, mainly with working class backgrounds, who formed a new culture in football, known as the Football Casual.
Put someone who goes to football and wears casual designer clothes together, and you have the Football Casual. The origins of the Football Casual are said to come from English clubs’ first trips abroad, and the looting that would go on amongst their travelling support. Liverpool earned a huge reputation for bringing back the latest designer clothes and trainers from their many European trips, and soon a competition was underway amongst the main firms to wear the best designer gear, listen to the best music and, of course, cause the most trouble. The fashion culture also meant that the number of fans involved would bulge, with the new casuals jumping on the bandwagon, looking for a bit of action, rather than just the hardcore minority.
So, if the 1960s was the start, the 1970s was the adolescence, the 1980s was undoubtedly the peak for football violence. In stadiums at least. And 1985 was the lowest year of all. In March of that year, an FA Cup Quarter Final between Luton Town & Millwall at Kenilworth Road descended into what was described as “the worst example of football violence seen at an English ground”. Visiting Millwall fans, enjoying the fear that their media-enhanced reputation had given to them, simply tore Kenilworth Road apart. Ripping scores of vivid orange plastic seats up to use as weapons and shields, Millwall fans charged onto the pitch, fighting with police and opposition fans. The game was halted twice, and at the final whistle, the pitch was invaded again, with several injuries ensuing. And all played out on live television.
Outside the ground, pitched battles were fought between The Bushwhackers, and Luton’s own MIG crew, with police in the middle. Following this most public of reminders of the perils of hooliganism, the British Government, led by PM Margaret Thatcher, called for serious measures to be put in place to combat fan violence. Thatcher demanded “stiff prison sentences” for those found guilty of stadium violence, whilst Chelsea chairman Ken Bates, never one to shy away from an inflammatory sound byte, claimed he wanted to erect electrified fences at Stamford Bridge in order to keep potential troublemakers in check. The Government proposed an idea to introduce ID cards for football fans, in order to monitor exactly who was travelling to matches, but this idea never got off the ground.
The following month, a game between Birmingham City and Leeds United at St Andrews ended in tragedy when a 14 year-old boy was crushed to death beneath a wall which had collapsed outside the stadium following a day of violence. Leeds fans set fire to stalls in the away end, threw concrete breezeblocks at opposition fans and tore up seats. Even Leeds boss, an Elland Road legend, Eddie Gray, was targeted with missiles as he pleaded in vain for the fans to stop their rampaging.
Not to mention Heysel.
Of course the details of that fateful May night at Heysel are a sensitive subject, and no one truly knows the spark for the mayhem (if there even was one). What we do know is that Liverpool and Juventus fans ended up confined together in a so-called “neutral area” (tickets distributed to local fans were always likely to end up in the wrong hands), and violence ensued. As Liverpool fans charged their rivals, the Juventus fans fled to the safety of their own end. But under weight of numbers, a wall separating the Juventus end from the neutral area buckled and collapsed, killing 39 supporters. Battle continued, despite the fatalities, and the game was held up, with the captains of both sides appealing for calm from the supporters. The game was eventually played, but under a black cloud, Juventus’ 1-0 win paling into virtual insignificance.
In the aftermath of Heysel, English clubs were banned from Europe for five years (Liverpool for six), as the FA looked to clean up its national game’s reputation. The Hillsborough tragedy of April 15th 1989, where 96 Liverpool supporters were killed in a crush at their side’s FA Cup Semi Final with Nottingham Forest, led to the Taylor Report, which recommended that all major football stadia reverts to the all-seater mode, minus the perimeter fences which had proved so dangerous. This, coupled with improved policing and stewarding at grounds, has led to a decline in the number of arrests made at football grounds since 1990.
That’s not to say that football violence at stadiums does not happen any more. In February 1995, England fans rioted at a friendly with the Republic of Ireland in Dublin, causing the game to be abandoned. 50 people were injured. In 1997, during England’s critical World Cup qualifier with Italy in Rome, fans clashed on the terraces with Italian police, who steamed in with batons. In the same stadium in 2007, Manchester United fans clashed with police on the terraces in similar fashion, whilst Spurs fans were seen scrapping with Spanish police during their UEFA Cup tie with Sevilla that same week.
The media coverage that these incidents get, expressed shock that this kind of thing still occurs in the English game. Police acted quickly to identify those involved, and clubs have a far stricter policy for fans caught offending these days. Police are encouraged not to wade in with batons flailing, as is often the case on the continent, but to examine CCTV footage and identify suspects, with banning orders and prison sentences dished out. The media also plays its part, publishing photographs of suspected hooligans, whilst the BBC television programme “MacIntyre undercover” saw undercover reporter Donal MacIntrye’s investigation into Chelsea football hooligans lead to a series of arrests, with several of Chelsea’s notorious Head-Hunter crew jailed.
Of course the increased publicity and scrutiny given to football violence since the rarely reported days of the 1960s has had an effect in terms of violence within the stadiums, but many experts believe that whilst violence at matches in England is undoubtedly on the fall, organised gangs still operate regularly away from the CCTV-stained grounds. In 1985 five fans were stabbed on a cross-channel ferry to France after a three-way fight involving fans of West Ham, Manchester United and Everton, and in March 1998 a Fulham fan was kicked to death outside Gillingham’s Priestfield Stadium when fighting broke out in a nearby alleyway.
However these incidents, whilst tragic and unacceptable, are a lot fewer and further between than in the Hooligan Heyday of the 1970s and 80s, when it seemed that every weekend there were new tales of woe from clubs, fans, police and players. The social impact of Heysel is that these days, for the majority, came to an end and thus ended the era of the Football Casual.
Marky- Posts : 29856
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:16 pm
Think this was it. But Cherries needs to come online and clarify. My bit probably covers his bit to be honest, so I would suggest Trebs that a little more about your bit added to what we have would be enough, with Cherries (or someone else) to do an introduction as to why we chose Heysel and piece it together by the morning. I won't be at work until midday tomorrow, which means I probably wont be online until midday so I can't guarantee being around to do any more.cherriesfna wrote:Right could you do me the immdiate consequences , footballing that is.
Marky, you seem to be around so could you cover social consquences.
Myself will give a quick insight to the incident and a bit about football hooliganism in general
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Trebs Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:33 pm
There's not a lot I can add to be honest. I've had a read around and finding specific footballing things is difficult.
I'm only on my phone from here on in so I'll do what I can but can't do anything major.
I'm only on my phone from here on in so I'll do what I can but can't do anything major.
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Re: Task 2 - Team Moyes
by Marky Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:00 am
If Cherries isn't online, shall we just group together what we have?
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