All Blacks...Argentina Teams

First topic message reminder :


Teams for Saturday Night, Waikato Stadium:

New Zealand:
15.Israel Dagg,
14.Ben Smith,
13. Conrad Smith,
12. Francis Saili,
11.Julian Savea,
10. Dan Carter,
9. Aaron Smith,
8. Kieren Read,
7.R. McCaw (c),
6. Steven Luatua,
5. Sam Whitelock,
4. Broddie Rettalick,
3. Charlie Faumauina,
2. Andrew Hore,
1.Tony Woodcock,

Reserves: D. Coles. B.Franks, W.Crockett, J. Thrush, T. Kerr-Barlow, S. Cane, B.Barrett, Charlie Piutau.


Argentina;

J.M. Hernandez, G. Canacho, M.Bosch, S. Fernandez, H, Agulla, N. Sanchez, M.Landajo, J.M. Leguizamon, P. Matera, J.M.F. Lobbe (c), J.F. Cabello, m.Carizza, Juan Figallo, E. Guiazu, M.Ayerza,.. Reserves:A. Creevy, N. Lobo, J.P. Orlandi, M. Galarza, B. Macome, T. Cubelli, F. Contepomi..

NZ scrum is getting punished by Pumas scrum. Faumaina is getting all sorts of pressure on him. Pity their lineout is struggling. They're missing their big man Albacete.

Knackeredknees wrote:Downward pressure on the ground......otherwise you could just run over the try line and throw the ball on the ground ala American football.

I remember a few of Bryan Habana's tries that he didn't ground and he still got it

FerN wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Downward pressure on the ground......otherwise you could just run over the try line and throw the ball on the ground ala American football.

I remember a few of Bryan Habana's tries that he didn't ground and he still got it

That's the refs fault, you see plenty of players go over but the ball never touches the ground as it held high in the arm. Just because it happens to others doesn't make it right.

Mind you the kiwi commentators have got the be the most balanced and fair in the business. Pointing out that the ref should have given an arg pen at the last scrum as well as pointing out a few other things

Ball looks like a slippery bar of soap out there. Rain is belting down. Both teams need to adapt to the conditions.

Ref is letting the scrums collapse. Always seems to be on Faumaina's side. NZ can consider themselves very fortunate that they're not being pinged there.

Strange scrum. Argentine hooker unable to hook and the ref pings Pumas for collapsing. 18 - 10.

Justice for Pumas scrum. Pressure drives NZ scrum back and they get a penalty. NZ is going to be worried about scrums in their own half now.

That was a monster scrum

Great opportunity exploited clinically... Well done ABs.

Argentina were in with a sniff and a Read charge down and long passes and Savea converts. That will hurt them as they needed that ball out of their half.

Sanchez is a great goal kicker. These are shocking conditions and he has struck every kick so sweetly. NZ mistake and able to withstand the Puma scrum.

McCaw seems out for the SA game. Knee injury concern.

Again a big scrum by the pumas, have the all blacks made the wrong call with front row replacements?

Ref plays no advantage for a NZ knock on and I expect a Puma backlash in the scrum.

Rolled and got two or three players on his leg. Be surprised if he isn't out for a while.

Interesting, argies have been able to execute a good kick chase game and challenge the receiver. I think this is usually a weakness for us, if the opposition can execute it well (most don't). Could be an issue vs the boks.

Not a bad one from NZ that time. Collapses on the second and ref lets it go. Footing is obviously an issue but the second one seemed very sketchy.

No I just think Argentina's scrum has at times been better today. There's a few times they've done us. Scrum rules could be working. Not many collapses.

I know I'm impressed with the new engagement, it's a proper contest again.

Faumaina gets rightly penalised for collapsing. Argentina with another scrum from the Ben Smith mistake from the kick. Wolf Man or Lobo is just 22 but he is a big unit. The front row for Argentina is massive.

Jersey pull and doesn't get a sin bin. NZ turn down bonus point try. Interesting last 5 minutes. No one can hold onto this ball.

3 tries to 1 and Argentina can be proud they were able to contain NZ but equally they'll be unhappy their errors led to NZ points. The conditions allowed the Puma scrum to dominate as there was a lot of handling errors.

McCaw looks to be out for SA game and that's a big concern. Not convinced with Cane facing up to that monster Bok back row. Faumaina seemed to struggle all night in the scrum. Carter looked good coming back particularly with his running.

Pumas made it a contest so well done to them but they shouldn't be happy with just that. Errors were punished by NZ and proved the difference.

Not the best debut for Saili so it'll be interesting to see what changes Hansen makes for next week.

Well done NZ

Despite the conditions there was some exciting and skilful rugby on display today...

Argentina are growing into this competition every game they play. A valiant effort by the visitors not many teams get away with such a close score in NZ.

NZ robbed of a fourth try by some shockingly un-empathetic referring as Argentina resorted to type in spoiling with deliberate professional fouls as their fitness failed. 

We need to either have better quality of northern referees appointed or  close the competition to the incompetents from north of the equator.

GE, there has been some terrible SH referees as well, I don't think you can point to the NH in your rant.

The laws are at fualt and allows for too many varying interpretations.

GloriousEmpire wrote:NZ robbed of a fourth try by some shockingly un-empathetic referring as Argentina resorted to type in spoiling with deliberate professional fouls as their fitness failed. 

We need to either have better quality of northern referees appointed or  close the competition to the incompetents from north of the equator.

I'm not sure it was all the ref's fault. Some of those NZ boys looked like they might have come down with a bug or something.

Saiili did OK considering the conditions. Got stuck in and varied the play, possibly a bit too much for the conditions.
Like Wellington it decides to bucket down after not raining all day.
Luatua is adding something on attack that we having seen for ages in a 6.
DCs goalkicking was a little off. Read was great. McCaw and Dagg as well, the rain not helping dagg under the ball at times. Gotta be happy with our 10 depth with Barrett slotting in same way taylor did.
Aaron Smith has improved out of sight last three odd tests. A star in the making.

Agree re cane...not a fan.I'd probably just put messam there.

Pity conditions were rotten.

If, as it seems likely, McCaw can't play I'd rather see Todd put in there against a massive SA back row. Cane on the bench to come on when they're tired. He will be spat out if he starts the game. Todd has that extra beef on him and can withstand the drives and keep his body over the ball to get the turnovers.

I don't think the laws are confusing when it comes to jersey pulling though BB. Professional foul and automatic yellow card. Doesn't even have to be thought about.

True Kia, but you can't blame NH referees only, that is nonsense.

Ligament damage for McCaw,

1400 points to Carter,

Luatua did another 80 minutes of his test apprenticeship,

Apart from his first touch I thought Saili did alright, but I can see Nonu playing against SA.

GloriousEmpire wrote:NZ robbed of a fourth try by some shockingly un-empathetic referring as Argentina resorted to type in spoiling with deliberate professional fouls as their fitness failed. 

We need to either have better quality of northern referees appointed or  close the competition to the incompetents from north of the equator.

Fine you keep that primadona Walsh, as well as Joubert and the rest who don't know how to ref a scrum or police the breakdown even if it smacked them in the face with a brick!

And you can have Barnes....... Deal

Biltong wrote:True Kia, but you can't blame NH referees only, that is nonsense.

Wasn't just the jersey pulling he missed. Although that robbed NZ of a certain vital bonus point try - he also allowed Argentina to snuff out the last move of the game by being about 35 meters off side. And throughout allowed far too much advantage from scrums when the ball had already been released successfully and the game moved on. 

In slow conditions we need refs who can accurately adjudicate the fast moments in the game, rather than getting their slide rule out at every set phase. This is a trait of northern refs and it robs us of the inspired moments of rapid genius when teams are allowed to basically cheat to shut them down.

Biltong wrote:GE, there has been some terrible SH referees as well, I don't think you can point to the NH in your rant.

The laws are at fualt and allows for too many varying interpretations.

Of course he can, why rant if he can't have a pop at the NH

But then NZ had the rub of the green on a few calls, so it's swings and roundabouts

Biltong wrote:True Kia, but you can't blame NH referees only, that is nonsense.

Surely you dont have a SH ref in mind?

Of course you can't BB. I thought he made some questionable decisions for both sides.

I expect the scrum to be worked on a lot this week but it was good to see the NZ lineout functioning well and stealing the throw. Let's hope for dry weather in Auckland because this was a scrap today under these conditions. Ball retention went out the window.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Biltong wrote:True Kia, but you can't blame NH referees only, that is nonsense.

Wasn't just the jersey pulling he missed. Although that robbed NZ of a certain vital bonus point try - he also allowed Argentina to snuff out the last move of the game by being about 35 meters off side. And throughout allowed far too much advantage from scrums when the ball had already been released successfully and the game moved on. 

In slow conditions we need refs who can accurately adjudicate the fast moments in the game, rather than getting their slide rule out at every set phase. This is a trait of northern refs and it robs us of the inspired moments of rapid genius when teams are allowed to basically cheat to shut them down.

Sorry I thought the last move of the game was a NZ knock on?

You know I'm not sure you've even got one eye open!

Probably nonu for now. 7 looks a concern again. Not a cane or Todd fan but we still bat deep in a hek of a lot of positions.

Ref cost us 7 points and a bonus point for the fourth try. It's not a whinge or a rant. Just a statement of fact.

Saili; well it was the wrong kind of game for him. His Auckland blues pedigree if poor decision making and sloppy handling let him down and the conditions didnt suit his high octane game. He deserved a try to make up for the early one he cost us but was robbed by a Juan/referee double act.

Id just about play tonights water boy at six and Luatua at seven.

Knackeredknees wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Biltong wrote:True Kia, but you can't blame NH referees only, that is nonsense.

Wasn't just the jersey pulling he missed. Although that robbed NZ of a certain vital bonus point try - he also allowed Argentina to snuff out the last move of the game by being about 35 meters off side. And throughout allowed far too much advantage from scrums when the ball had already been released successfully and the game moved on. 

In slow conditions we need refs who can accurately adjudicate the fast moments in the game, rather than getting their slide rule out at every set phase. This is a trait of northern refs and it robs us of the inspired moments of rapid genius when teams are allowed to basically cheat to shut them down.

Sorry I thought the last move of the game was a NZ knock on?

You know I'm not sure you've even got one eye open!

NZ swept out from deep and the move was shut down by argies on the left flank who never retreated onside. Otherwise it would've been an easy overlap and try. Again the referee was too focused on set phase and not quick enough or aware enough to keep the open phases fair.

Not a fan of Messam going there and certainly not Vito. Nobody stands out but we need some bulk against SA, hence Todd being the best option for me. The other options are too lightweight in terms of contesting and we need a specialist. Keep Luatua where he is because he's going to be a good counter weapon for us ranging wide from the ruck. He seems to break the first tackle at will.

Ah so you want the ref to ignore the set piece and look at offside?

But what about if NZ were offside(like they were quite a few times) would you then prefer him to look at the set piece and ignore the offside?

Where's the faith? Richie will be fine. His tendons grow back overnight.

Knackeredknees wrote:Ah so you want the ref to ignore the set piece and look at offside?

But what about if NZ were offside(like they were quite a few times) would you then prefer him to look at the set piece and ignore the offside?

Mate I started another thread to discuss it so we don't mess this one up.

anthems over at Suncorp..

Just a question, when was the last time NZ lost a home test match?

SA 2009 wasn't it?

Cane's just not filling out, how about Latimer? He's tough but never given a go. Todd or Messam, please no Cane.