Where now for last nights winners and losers?

Firstly hats off to Garcia and Mayweather for producing career best performances to overcome their major rivals in two interesting fights.

First off Garcia and Matthyse, having gone into the fight as a massive underdog Danny Garcia produced a performance of great skill and maturity to blunt the offensive arsenal of Lucas Matthyse. A fight that cements his place as the premier light welterweight in the world he should now start to get the recognition he deserves, the scorecards were for me criminally close. Garcia from start to finish with the exception of a couple of mid fight rounds dominated his more revered opponent, showing grit and determination to take anything the argentine had to offer while his left hook did the physical damage it was his superior boxing skills that won the day. For Garcia a fight with Mayweather at welterweight seems the obvious next step, his stock is as high as anyones in and around the divisions but for Matthyse his options seem less obvious. With no belts to his name and brutal power he will once again fall into the who needs him club, an eminently beatable boxer who unfortunately seems fairly reliant on his power, Garcia is no speed merchant but had the faster hands and feet throughout.

As for the main event well it was a boxing masterclass up until the 8th round where Mayweather switched off went on the retreat and allowed Alvarez to pick up rounds through aggression if nothing else. The fight will have done little to persuade his detractors that his fights are a bit boring, a supremely talented once in a generation boxer who is far too good to be in good fights. For Mayweather it would appear that Garcia is next up, getting him to fight as main support would seem to be a deliberate ploy to get him in the publics consciousness. For Alvarez a bit of rebuilding is needed, he's still young and has obvious talent but doesn't have a real identity as a boxer, he wants to box but lacks the footwork or speed to be overly successful yet lacks the stamina and power to be an aggressive come forward fighter.

Mayweather vs Garcia
Alvarez vs Cotto
Matthyse vs Maidana

The three fights I think are most sensible next steps for all those involved.

I think both Mayweather and Alvarez should be trying their best to get Sergio Martinez in the ring at 160 next March.
For Mayweather, Martinez is unlikely to come in much more than 165lbs, Martinez wouldn't refuse either, it'd be his retirement fight. For mayweather its the next obvious super fight.

I'm going to suggest something a bit out there and very unlikely, Garcia at 140lbs then Martinez at 160lbs to be the ring magazine champion at four simultaneous weights, his legacy secured beyond doubt.

I think if Alvarez gets Martinez next there is a good chance that Alvarez beats him. On the other hand I think that Martinez' unorthodox counter punching style could give Mayweather problems, who leads?
But I think if Mayweather would need to take Martinez before someone else (GGG or Alvarez) does first.

Imagine if he went to 160 won, then 140 and won. mental.

I can't see Alverez beating any version of Martinez. Alverez should go after Barker, that's the type of fighter he beats. Canelo's limited I feel and benefited from poor opposition and good match making.

Thats not quite true Strongback he'd set up a fight with Williams who had an accident, and ortiz who messed it up by losing to Lopez. Both good opponents and the best of what was available at the time. Not that it would have helped him against mayweather, but I'd have expected him to at least cut the ring off.

I don't think you can completely negate his win over trout. Canelo isn't a bad fighter, floyd just made him look bad. Your just doing that thing of labelling everyone floyd beats a bum after the fact. That's just not cool strongly.

Trout was underdog against a shop worn Cotto and pulled off a good win. Canelo's big win is Trout. There has to be some reality to it.

Complete and utter garbage as per usual when you talk about Mayweather Strongy, it was an excellent performance against a world class boxer. Mayweather was simply too good and Alvarez didn't have the style or gameplan to trouble him, that is more down to the brilliance of PBF than Alvarez being overmatched. You come across as a very bitter sod who can't accept when he's proven wrong time and time again.

ShahenshahG wrote:Thats not quite true Strongback he'd set up a fight with Williams who had an accident, and ortiz who messed it up by losing to Lopez. Both good opponents and the best of what was available at the time. Not that it would have helped him against mayweather, but I'd have expected him to at least cut the ring off.

Williams was sparked by Martinez and struggled with Lara. Not the stuff of legend which is why Alverez picked him.

There is no depth in Alverez's record.

Time will tell although I see him taking some soft fights. He might go after Barker.


Against the best Alverez had nothing. At least Hatton made a fight of it.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Complete and utter garbage as per usual when you talk about Mayweather Strongy, it was an excellent performance against a world class boxer. Mayweather was simply too good and Alvarez didn't have the style or gameplan to trouble him, that is more down to the brilliance of PBF than Alvarez being overmatched. You come across as a very bitter sod who can't accept when he's proven wrong time and time again.

Alverez had nothing. He was useless. Ricky was better.

I think Garica-Mayweather is on the cards, albeit it's a fight which is going to be very, very hard to get excited about. But in effect Garcia has nigh-on cleaned out 140 for the time being and it's hard to begrudge him that mega pay day.

As for Matthysse, I sense a rematch with Judah, perhaps. Both kept it close enough against Garcia to lose without embarrassing themselves and in the case of Matthysse there's enough grounds to make a rematch with Garcia legitimate if he can win a couple more fights in the meantime. Judah still carries some weight in the division on the strength of his showing against Garcia last time, and a 'last chance saloon' kind of fight between him and Matthysse would be fair enough, given the contentious nature of their first bout.

Alvarez? Difficult to say. My gut instinct is that Floyd will relinquish his 154 lb titles to concentrate on his Welterweight title again, as Money May certainly isn't going to bother with the likes of Trout, Lara or Molina at Light-Middleweight, none of whom carry a big fan base or any financial clout. So I suspect if Canelo stays in the weight class he'll be easily positioned in to a cake walk title fight for a vacated belt and can go back to calling himself the champion at 154.

I wouldn't mind seeing him go up to 160, but his lack of speed and stamina is going to play an even bigger role there and a loss at this stage to a Golovkin or even an ageing Martinez would be disastrous for Golden Boy. I think he'll be matched for a soon-to-be-vacant belt and probably have a rematch with Trout at some point.

A very worthy winner Garcia, showed he belongs and deserves to be next up for Floyd, you would have thought.


Failing that, wouldn't mind seeing a rematch of last night. Lucas seemed to be finding a groove in the sixth round and then the eye. Maybe wishful thinking on my part, because I love watching Matthysse, granite chin, never stops coming, keeps throwing, always threatening.

Ricky performed better because he wasn't a threat and Mayweather allowed him a crack or two so he could put on a show. Alvarez wasn't allowed that sort of freedom as he was a threat in certain situations.

What next, well if it was up to me i'd love to see a rematch between Matthysse and Garcia. Garcia boxed brilliantly and made a believer of me, but almost everyone had it about even after the 6th when Lucas injured his eye, and arguably looked to be in the ascendancy before as he couldn't throw the right hand for a couple round. Add the soft knockdown, low blows from Danny and that it was a fun fight, I'd like to see a rematch

That said, I can't see it happening. If I was Danny I wouldn't take it. Right now he is the lead candidate for a shot at mayweather and a career high payday. Why risk a shot like mayweather against a guy you've already beat and that does have the power to clock you at any point. Garcia won comfortably but was in trouble a couple times and had to really suck it up at times

If no Garcia, Matthysse may find it hard to get fights. Judah and Malingaggi won't be bad given  how well they performed in their last fights respectively. Maybe he could look at the Broner-Maidana winner should that fight come together. There are a few options at welter if he wants to move up, Soto-Karass, Berto, Guerrero, Ortiz, Khan, Alexander II, Brook etc

Floyd only has the Khan-Alexander winner and Garcia. Personally I think Garcia is the bigger and more sensible fight but one that will be hard to get excited for, whereas with khan it's a little more exciting. I'm firmly against Khan fighting Floyd, but it does makes sense financially, Floyd needs a KO to keep interest going

Canelo needs to use this experiance. I don't think he was overhyped or embarressed, he just isn't Floyd and honestly thought he chose the wrong gameplan of trying to counter and box floyd. He didn't do it poorly, he was missing by inches and only Floyd can slip punches like that. He needs to model his career on floyds. He came in light and his stamina held out well enough, he needs to stay this trim and look at Floyd and see how he trains 24/7,doesn't drink and doesnt bloat like Canelo is known to. He is an obivous talent and has a bright future. Molina and Trout-Lara winner makes sense and if Cotto beats Rodriguez then that's a high earning fight for him to take. If Martinez can make 154 then expect to see that fight and that is winnable for Canelo as martinez likes to fight more

Garcia looks the most likely but then I suspect that Khan/Alexander winner will get the shot come next May.

Whilst Garcia has cleaned up (more or less) at 140, I don't think a fight with him would sell as well as a potential fight with Khan. It's a difficult one to call really. I would have no interest in seeing Garcia in with Mayweather purely because I see it going the exact same way as Floyd v Guerrero, especially given the fact Garcia would be made to step up to 147. 

After last night's fight the only thing that I can see trouble & lets be honest, there is left that could trouble, Floyd is hand speed. Something which Khan has in abundance. Sadly Khan doesn't have the ring smarts to go along with it but at least it would allow us to see just how Mayweather copes with someone who is at least as quick as him (and as accurate I would argue, in the first 3/4 rounds of fights anyway).

Khan is stepping up to 147 ...sells the fight to the British Public...and would hold a belt at 147 should he win.

Mayweather has said he won'#t be fighting till May now so I suspect we will see him stall on announcing his opponent until Jan/Feb next year...giving him time to see the outcome of that fight. Should Khan win then we will see Money v Amir ....should Alexander win then we will see Garcia v Mayweather!

As for Canelo he will come again. As Chris said...the chances are he will be fighting for a Vacant strap back at Light-Middleweight. Trout rematch would sell pretty well although should Cotto get past Rodriguez I suspect we will see him and Trout face off first. I wouldn't mind seeing Canelo step up to Middleweight for a fight with another Mexican....Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. That would be a huge fight next May and would set up a potential Super-Fight next fall against Golovokin/Martinez....in fact that's what I would look to do if I was a boxing promoter. Put those 4 in the ring in a mini tournament! Epic!

He'll fight garcia on november 19 if his previous form is anything to go by.

ShahenshahG wrote:Ricky performed better because he wasn't a threat and Mayweather allowed him a crack or two so he could put on a show. Alvarez wasn't allowed that sort of freedom as he was a threat in certain situations.

I see that Canelo was very poor. Ricky roughed Floyd up s bit, huddled him and threw a lot of punched. Floyd doesn't like that. Canelo was tame by comparison.

There is an excellent article on Canelo's rise that HaHarrison posted the other day. It takes a very good look at the Canelo machine and the reporter speaks with leading Boxing people in Mexico, trainers and reporters. He speaks with Oscar as well. It deserves it's own thread so I will post it up. It's well worth the read.

Strongback wrote:

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Complete and utter garbage as per usual when you talk about Mayweather Strongy, it was an excellent performance against a world class boxer. Mayweather was simply too good and Alvarez didn't have the style or gameplan to trouble him, that is more down to the brilliance of PBF than Alvarez being overmatched. You come across as a very bitter sod who can't accept when he's proven wrong time and time again.

Alverez had nothing. He was useless. Ricky was better.

Utter rubbish, Hatton was embarrassed, Alvarez was just outfoxed by a better boxer no shame in that.

I do think Canelo should have perhaps tucked the chin down and try to walk through Floyd once he realised Floyd was always a couple moves ahead of him, although it's a risky gameplan that means taking a lot of heavy clean shots like what happened to Hatton who took a lot, t's also an exhausting style of fighting, but if you can get a close to punch for punch with floyd then he could have worn him down

If Rios looses to Pacquaio, you've still got an absolutely fantastic fight with Matthysse.


Canelo against Chavez Jr really appeals.


Floyd against Pacman could yet reignite.


Side, the referee, if he can call himself that, was appalling in Matthysse fight, not just because of poor call on knockdown. Like to think he won't get many more big fights.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:

Strongback wrote:

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Complete and utter garbage as per usual when you talk about Mayweather Strongy, it was an excellent performance against a world class boxer. Mayweather was simply too good and Alvarez didn't have the style or gameplan to trouble him, that is more down to the brilliance of PBF than Alvarez being overmatched. You come across as a very bitter sod who can't accept when he's proven wrong time and time again.

Alverez had nothing. He was useless. Ricky was better.

Utter rubbish, Hatton was embarrassed, Alvarez was just outfoxed by a better boxer no shame in that.

Hatton landed some good punches, how many did 'lead feet' Alverez land? He was exposed as a hype job. Read article I posted on Canelo, a great read regardless of your opinion.

Hatton had lovely feet, he could land from the balls of his feet, Canelo doesn't have that luxury. I don't think it makes him a bad boxer, it's such a rarity for a fighter to have really great footwork these days. Canelo needed to get his feet set to get off, which made it an easy night for floyd. He could chose his next 4 fighters by their footwork. Danny Garcia would hold no challenge.
Khan funnily enough would nearly give floyd problems, he could close the distance and get off on floyd, his problem is that his feet only seem to go forward. Floyd would time him at some point catch him and send him on a one way trip to Queer Street.

I'm going to guess Strongy it isn't a great read at all, you've shown yourself up far too many times as far as Mayweather is concerned. Alvarez is still a world class boxer despite being outclassed, he performed far more admirably than Hatton who was completely shown up. As far as you're concerned everybody Mayweather has faced and beaten is useless, if you honestly believe half of what you write then you quite clearly have no clue about boxing.

It's funny how if mattysse had beaten Garcia everyone would be saying he should fight him next but since he lost and Garcia is ridiculously underrated and has proved he is by far the best 140lber he is the next legitimate opponent! Not like there's much chance of him winning but as good as everyone else! I actually think khan has one of the best chances but still not very good

The mayweather fight went to script as far as I was concerned. Canelo's only advantage was size but he never had the style for that to be useful to him.

In terms of interesting fights Garcia winning last night was a curve ball. He just brings nothing that can threaten floyd, or make you think he could ever beat him. I felt the same about jmm and Guerrero. Had matthysse won, at least you'd think there was a chance he could hustle and catch him, however remote.

The khan of a few years ago at least poses a problem, even if his chin and brain are ultimately going to let him down.

I think Garcia blew that theory about Matthyse out the water Milky, he's just not as good as some on here made out, was never convinced by him and was fully confident Garcia would be too good. Last night only went to reaffirm that belief, the fight wasn't all that close and feel Matthyse was given to much benefit of the doubt in many of the early rounds.

I never had my matthysse hype train ticket terror, though i've never been sold on garcia. i had Garcia winning wider than the judges, though it was always competitive. I agree that floyd would never let matthysse set himself, I just think that had matthysse won last night, you 'd at least have something to hang your hat on against floyd, however slim. I just don't see how Garcia could ever beat him.

I don't think either could ever beat him, going to say that the pair are only an option because of operating in a fairly weak division. Both have come to prominence once all the top names started to move up, granted Garcia beat Khan and Matthyse beat Alexander but while Bradley, Maidana, Alexander and Kotelnik were around they were just another name instead of a big name.

A question i must ask will the U.S market keep buying Floyds fights ?
A real genuine all time great and doesn't look like getting beat anytime soon but the fights he is involved in lack drama and follow a similar pattern, I've nearly fell asleep In he's last two fights.

Cheers Rodders

CJ Ross gonna be a big loser from last night I tell you that much

Garcia- Matthyse .......Yes it shows the folly of overrating a guy because of one good win against an ordinary juicer..

Respect for Garcia he takes a lot of stick and that Khan win was a good one against a good fighter.....

Alvarez is fine he's a young kid losing to the master a la Sanchez-Nelson........He can come back and win a piece of pie.........and he's earned a lot of bucks......

Matthyse well he'll have to go to the drawing board ..bag a couple of wins and look for the weakest belt.

Garcia can earn big for losing to Floyd..........Who although Garcia is now a quality champion will get hammered on here for taking an easy fight...

Even though Garcia is the best out there for him........bar Martinez at 160.

I hadn't mentioned it earlier, but lets not forget their are a few fights between now and next May (the supposed date for Money's next fight).

Truss - You make a valid point regarding Garcia ...people will most likely hammer Floyd should he take that fight...which on the face of it would be wrong given the bloke has pretty much cleaned out 140. However at the same time you would be hard pressed to give Mayweather total credit for taking and winning it given the fight would most likely be at 147...where Garcia isn't the toughest ask purely because he hasn't ventured there. 

A lot of upcoming fights will, or at least should, shape who Floyd takes on next:

Marquez/Bradley winner: You would argue whoever comes out of this with a win should automatically be the next challenge for Floyd. Given both have beaten Pacman (yes,yes one actually hasn't but he has at least been in the ring with him) ...and both are operating at Floyds 'natural' weight class.

Maidana/Broner winner: This one is doing the rounds and looks set to happen in Dec potentially on a card featuring Khan/Alexander. Whilst Broner is unlikely to face Mayweather, money may well change his tune...should Maidana unthrone 'the next big thing in boxing' then you would think he jumps straight to the front of the line.

Pacman/Rios: Bit of a last chance saloon for Pacman this...if he comes through this convincingly but with a few chinks visible in his armour then I could see Floyd jumping on the fight straight away.

In terms of ranking who I think would look best on Floyds resume out of all of these:

1) Marquez (if he beats Bradley convincingly, obviously they have fought before but Marquez would have grown into the weight more) 

2) Pacman - The allure of 3/4 years has gone but he looked excellent against Marquez, until he was caught, and should he destroy Rios then Floyd could step into the ring with someone maybe not as shot as first thought and pick up a great if not slightly tainted win.

3) Garcia - Undisputed king at 140, it would be a good win for Floyd...if it happened I would like to see Garcia step in with a tough 147 warm up first. Should that happen, then Floyd fights and beats him the win goes from good to very good/great.

4) Khan, Maidana, Alexander, Broner - Don't particularly think any one of these would stand out above the other. All good names on the CV...none spectacular.

Manny isn't fighting Floyd !!!

He'll want parity and he's lost his last two fights.......

Who wants to see Marquez-May again ??

Bradley is a plodder albeit a great one..........

Bradley or Garcia.........then Khan.......Rather it was Martinez myself.

Martinez and possibly Garcia then he may as well retire. Bradley, khan and the like aren't going to add anything aside from an easy $30mil.

I don't think Marquez vs Mayweather again is a bad call to be honest. You can't seriously say that the Marquez that came in first time against Floyd was anything approaching decent...he had made weight badly, looked flabby and lacked any kind of mobility.

Given his sudden punch power, his new physique at the weight and should he win, his standing as the 2nd best welterweight on the planet...why shouldn't Floyd fight him?!

So you dismiss Marquez as an opponent yet would be happy to see Martinez take him on...despite the fact it would be at another catch weight...away from Martinez best weight...on the back of two sub par performances against opponents you have admitted in other threads are nothing more than decent...and at a time when he would be coming back from a long injury lay off!

Yeh that makes sense and would add to his record!

Marquez was badly outboxed last time...and Bradley won't be easy........

Martinez is taller and bigger and a southpaw....

Agreed he was outboxed, and to be honest chances are the outcome would be the same...but what we are discussing here is potential opponents for Floyd and I don't think you can dismiss Marquez as one of them:

The fact is that in 2 months time he could be sitting on the back of two wins, one over a former P4P 1/2 and one over a guy considered Top 10 p4p in some lists. Add the fact he is now more comfortable at the weight than he was when he first stepped up to fight Floyd and you have a guy who brings a lot to the table.

I would have been all over Martinez as an opponent 12 months ago...but out of everyone at the moment I think that a Floyd win over him would be claimed as a cherry picking win more than anyone else. This due to the fact he has looked to be on the slide in his last two outings and would be coming off major surgery on a number of injuries resulting in a huge lay off.

Certainly deserves one last big payday Mate JMM..........and whilst you make a good point about him deserving a shot.......

Not sure I'd want to see it again........He's more ringworn than floyd.........slower and can't box as well..............Manny was made for him with his in/out direct line approach...

I'd rather he cherry picked great fighters than recycled guys he beat easily..

He beat Marquez easy........But you make valid points..

Well Martinez still makes mincemeat of Marquez and Bradley as would Barker, Macklin and Murray. They are all too big and would hit far too hard. They may not be as good p4p but too much is made of that, size does eventually become an issue. The strange thing about mayweather is his reach, he has almost always had longer arms which makes his style perfect for the bigger men.

Oh it's certainly one which a air few wouldn't want to see again but I could also see a lot of people giving him credit if he took him on and beat him again...purely because of the wins JMM would be going into the ring with in his last 18 months.

I have always been a huge admirer of Floyd, not so much a fan, but he won me over as a nailed on Top 10 ATG last night (different story as to where Truss, think we've outdone that discussion a few times lately:hug:)

My worry, like i said, is that should he pick and beat Martinez is that the old accusations of cherry picking etc would be stuck straight back on him and in a lot of ways rightly so (purely because of the reasons surrounding Martinez I already discussed).

On face value the best thing for boxing right now and for Mayweather in terms of his legacy would be for the following to occur:

Bradley to beat JMM (and well, not a repeat of Pacman)
Golovkin to beat Martinez

The reason I say that is you would have the torch passed so to speak, obviously Floyd still sits top of the P4P tree, but with the younger stars picking up the wins it gives Floyd the challenge of fighting younger and fresher guys...things which would do his resume no harm at all.

Fair points...........However I don't think Mayweather needs to do anymore legacy wise........

Don't think he can go any higher on the lists...........But good to see he has cemented a top 10 spot from many on here........

I'd bump Floyd up into the top 3 if he flattened that talentless imbecile who accompanied him into the ring, who was he ? Did Floyd pay him to rabbit on and use expletives in a ring entrance like that ? If so he wants reimbursing.

Cheers Rodders

Im not sure on the drug testing these days but id guess that would be an issue in a JMM rematch. Think JMM ko's Bradley so he may be a realistic opponent after Garcia.
Middleweight would be too far for Floyd to go seeing as last nights was at a catchweight under lightmiddle. Doubt Martinez could come down that far.
Alvarez should have been at the end of the 6 fight deal, taking him out early has left Floyd short of options that people will buy into as serious challenges.
Really don't think there is anyone that has a chance even at his age.

Money beats everyone at 160. Word on the street is that Canelo weighed between 165-168 on the NIGHT. Martinez weigh between 165-170 in the ring on the NIGHT on on inch more reach but Moneys jab MUCH superior. Mayeather beats him. Too SHARP, too FAST, too ACCURATE, better MOVEMENT.

Rodney wrote:I'd bump Floyd up into the top 3 if he flattened that talentless imbecile who accompanied him into the ring

Cheers Rodders

That's why we can't take your rankings seriously Mate........

Can Floyd get to 160? Weighing 146 on the day of the fight for a light middle catchweight suggests not so were talking another catchweight for Martinez. Im not saying he couldn't beat Martinez but weight has to become a big issue the higher you go and Martinez is talented too.

I have to agree with strongy somewhat here. Canelo is very limited. I have always said that and saw no reason to change my mind. That said, Floyd made him look even more limited than he actually is.

That said, if Floyd were called Seamus O'Mayweather he would be even more talented in the eyes in the idiot strongy.

RanjitPatel wrote:Can Floyd get to 160? Weighing 146 on the day of the fight for a light middle catchweight suggests not so were talking another catchweight for Martinez. Im not saying he couldn't beat Martinez but weight has to become a big issue the higher you go and Martinez is talented too.

Money can do it bro. SPECIAL fighter. Martinez ALOT bigger but not much in the REACH where Moneys jab is the most ACCURATE. Martinez dont use his size to PRESSURE. He fights CAGEY trying use his FEET and UPPER BODY to make opponents miss and then COUNTER. But Money is MUCH faster and more accurate. He beats Martinez to the punch ALL NIGHT and uses his SUPERIOR footwork and DEFENCE to avoid damage. Money just an AMAZING fighter bro.

Why should Floyd fight mid weights? He has nothing to prove to anyone. He will beat Martinez anyday. But why do it? Lets not forget he was once touted as a Naz opponent and naz weighed 126.

Floyd actually weighed 150 at fight night and had to eat big just to put on weight.

The man is a nailed on top 3 P4P with only Ray Leonard and Ali above him.