Ulster's "problems"

I love the Ulster fans and the way Ulster play the game and, as a semi-neutral, found the game against Glasgow compelling viewing. How you lost is beyong every poster on these boards.
Let's start a thread as to what may be going wrong/not happening for Ulster.

Pros
They are creating chances
Nick Williams looks like an overweight Dean Richards but plays like Zinzan Brooke - he is everyhwere. Watching him bounce Glasgow tacklers off every time was quite funny
You have a shed load of Lions to come back
You also have Olding (who I think is a great player) to come back
Your have Ruaan Pienaar to come back

Cons
Your finishing is pretty pish poor
you don't seem to have much luck
Emmm .......
Emmm .......
Emmm .......
I can't think of any other negatives.

Come on Ulster-chaps, chin up (and stand up) - you are so close to making it all click together and when you do, you will take someone to the cleaners points-wise.
Are the players having trouble with the coaches?
Are they missing the senior players' leadership?
Are they having trouble getting up for a lowly Rabo game when they are used to HC and Rabo play-offs?

Other than some low confidence i dont see too much of an issue. If we improve again away to connacht i see us picking up the win. Its a gutting way to lose but i was pleasantly surprised with how we dominated Glasgow who will be up there at the end of the season.

Long way to go yet

One man team .
Pienaar !

Well, if we weren't creating any chances you might have a point there Janecory but I doubt even Ruan could have made our lads catch a pass on Friday night.

Maybe trying too hard after the miserable display at Dave Parade?

I'd rather they were creating chances than not.

Janecory wrote:One man team .
Pienaar !

That's actually surprisingly accurate. Jackson is developing as a player but hasn't the experience yet to call big plays on the hoof. With Paddy Wallace missing as well there is no-one behind the scrum who is reading the opposition. If the gameplan isn't working then someone has to make the call to change it - Ruan is that man.

Who is broadcasting the Rabo at the minute?

I looked for the usual BBC link for the Leinster game last evening and couldn't find it.

Various broadcasters PC, mainly RTE and BBC. Sky Sports from next year.

What happened on Friday is we had guys on the wing who aren't natural finishers and that showed. There are a good few chances were you'd think any one of Trimble, Bowe and Gilroy would have buried. We can hardly say we lack depth in the back three when we have three international wings in with a shot at Ireland duty, we're just unlucky that all three are injured at the same time!

I am worried for the international windows. Michael Allen was especially guilty of blowing some gilt-edged chances. Luke Marshall too was guilty of butchering an overlap and knocking on over the line. We need some older heads in the backline. Payne can't do it all from 15.

Apart from that, I think we switched off in the last five. The key moment was Paul Marshall flinging a hospital pass to Jackson when we were on our own tryline- really he should have taken responsibility for the box kick, but if you're going to throw the pass in a pressure situation... don't make it a pass your 10 has to turn to catch behind his head. Absolute shocker.

I don't know that much was wrong with our attack in general- it's not like we didn't create those opportunities. Glasgow defended very well but they can't say they stopped us from breaking them down. We did break them down- two occasions we knocked on over the tryline, once we were held up over the line and several other occasions we just had to give the final scoring pass. So infuriating. On the 75th minute I turned and said to my Dad; "See if Glasgow get a losing bonus point out of this game? It's an absolute disaster for us."

You can imagine my reaction to the final result. But I wasn't trying to jinx us. I don't know how we weren't 20 points up at that point, I really don't.

I think Luke Marshall is going to get pushed out by Olding when he comes back- I would have Paddy Wallace in there if he was available even now. Both of those guys can create a bit more in terms of opportunities for the players around them and we need that subtlety and variation. Marshall has the skills to do this, he used to play 10, but someone seems to have persuaded him that he's Jamie Roberts. He needs to start using his head, and not as a bludgeon. We were too easy to read and we were over-reliant on the bosh. Our backrow has plenty of that, so we could use a bit of brains in the midfield.

I am really hoping for a massive back lash in the next couple of matches.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:I love the Ulster fans and the way Ulster play the game and, as a semi-neutral, found the game against Glasgow compelling viewing. How you lost is beyong every poster on these boards.
Let's start a thread as to what may be going wrong/not happening for Ulster.

Pros
They are creating chances
Nick Williams looks like an overweight Dean Richards but plays like Zinzan Brooke - he is everyhwere. Watching him bounce Glasgow tacklers off every time was quite funny
You have a shed load of Lions to come back
You also have Olding (who I think is a great player) to come back
Your have Ruaan Pienaar to come back

Cons
Your finishing is pretty pish poor
you don't seem to have much luck
Emmm .......
Emmm .......
Emmm .......
I can't think of any other negatives.

Come on Ulster-chaps, chin up (and stand up) - you are so close to making it all click together and when you do, you will take someone to the cleaners points-wise.
Are the players having trouble with the coaches?
Are they missing the senior players' leadership?
Are they having trouble getting up for a lowly Rabo game when they are used to HC and Rabo play-offs?

I think so, regarding the part I have bolded. I'm not just making this up based on nothing either.

What have you heard Rory?

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Who is broadcasting the Rabo at the minute?

I looked for the usual BBC link for the Leinster game last evening and couldn't find it.

The Leinster game wouldn't have been on British TV, for obvious reasons, unless the British broadcaster makes it their main event but BBC Wales went for the Scarlets instead. The Ospreys were shown in Wales the week before so they didn't get a second showing in a row - shame, as Scarlets v Treviso is and was less attractive for the neutral viewer (sorry!). Ulster, Scottish and Welsh home games can usually be found on regional BBC channels, S4C, etc. Rpublic of Ireland based games may be shown depending on the opposition.

Notch wrote:What happened on Friday is we had guys on the wing who aren't natural finishers and that showed. .

I buy that to an extent, Notch but at the same time you would expect any pro back player to have finished at least one of those chances. If you or I had dropped those passes in a club game, we would have had to drink a dirty pint and wear a t-shirt withg a rude picture on it all night.

As a side issue, what do Ulster do with Pienaar that SA don't. Biltong goes apoplectic about Pienaar whenever the subject comes up. He hates him with a vengance but I think he is one of the most influential players in the Rabo - maybe not one of the best as such but certainly one of the most influential

Artful_Dodger wrote:What have you heard Rory?

I just know that he isn't the most constructive coach and that he is very different from McLaughlin in that regard.

I don't think he has everyone on board yet really.

To be honest, we knew all that when he came in. Under McLaughlin, we constantly fell short of standards in smaller games with no reaction and no improvement. Anscombe at least gives the players a much needed kick up the arse when they let themselves down- I quite like what I've seen of his style. I want it to hurt when we lose, and I want us to be held to the same standards every week.

Well McLaughlin was the guy who lead us to a Heneiken Cup final, and he seemed to communicate with the players exceptionally well. He had everyone on board really. He was also very good at bringing through new talent.

You may like his style Notch, but some of the players don't seem to. Which is the important thing.

It's whether or not his style works that matters- he's undoubtedly improved this team. We got to a Heineken Cup final, but where did we finish in the league? 6th. That sums McLaughlin up for me- he was able to deliver good performances at times but not consistency. Week in, week out there were some games we just didn't turn up for. And we just went on like that didn't matter. Like we only had to perform in the big games. I get what you're saying about some players wanting/needing to be coddled but so far the arse-kicking has improved us in terms of consistency. It's working.

I was a big supporter of McLaughlin but you live and die by your results. Ultimately, our Pro12 campaign just wasn't good enough for me to continue to support him.

I just wonder sometimes if we have the mental strength of a Leinster or a Munster in their day. If we have too many nice guys in the squad and not enough hard-nosed barstewards who will brook no excuses when things go wrong, particularly the ones they might make for themselves.

We lost that game because of a lack of composure in both 22s. Everything that went wrong for us were things we had control over- handling, decision making, concentration. So sitting in the dressing room I would have been furious if guys were feeling sorry for themselves too. We let it go. Don't get downhearted- get angry! Get up off the mat and put things right. The players are the only ones who can make that happen, and they let themselves down in terms of how they've handled the last two games. They've come off the pitch knowing they could have done more and if they don't know that, then the coaches have to point it out.

I want to see a big response to that.

Yep.  

well said Notch.

Yes agree with that Notch. McGlock did well but he made some very questionable selections. Anscombe has made tough calls but I can't really question any selections, it's the players on the pitch need to take a long hard look at themselves.

I don't see how Anscombe can take any responsibility for Friday night either. To my mind the team were well prepared and bettered a very good side. They should already be able to catch the ball.

Well said Notch, I believe we will see a reaction from a side who will be as perplexed as we all are as to how they ended up losing that match on friday night. We did indeed better a very good Glasgow side and should have been well clear of them in the end but the gods of catching a ball decided to rain upon our parade. Other than the utterly gutting scoreline I was really pleased with the majority of our game and I really don't think we've much to worry about just yet.

I've not had time to read all the above, but just watched the highlights again. Still can't believe Henderson managed to track and tackle Der Merve! Did anyone else think Herring had one of his best games in an Ulster shirt? If only Allen had caught his perfectly timed pass!

Herring was very good which was a relief given our lineout woes in Newport. Herring is a very useful backup.

Herring was at his very best. The pack were all damn good and our worries about having a viable front row without big John have been unfounded. He will be a very welcome addition of course but we have some excellent and capable backup in that area now.

I’m normally all about the doom and gloom, and to be honest, I think the only on-going issues from the first two games will be two instead of eight points in the league.

Friday night was a substantial step up in performance from the week before – hopefully this week will see the same. We have sleep-walked into this season. Before a ball was kicked in a competitive game, Anscombe was in the media talking about silverware and not getting ahead of ourselves. The team were obviously mentally very much ahead of themselves.

Friday was extremely irritating because Glasgow will most likely be contenders at the end of the season, and it would have been good to lay down a marker with them and we dominated them for long stretches. The ridiculous knock-ons from Michael Allen and Luke Marshall really cost us. But aside from that one (monumental) blunder, I thought Allen played very well.

The much-maligned Jackson missed one kick and his break was excellent, and there was no excuse for Marshall not catching his pass.

Doyle, Herring and Tuohy were each great in parts, and the scrum, with nary a front-liner to begin with, made short work of the Glasgow scrum.

We have had two very pointed reminders in the first two games –

1) If you don’t show up, you’ll get beaten
2) If you’re not clinical when you create chances,  you’ll get beaten

Finalists in last year’s Rabo counts for nothing. You have to do it all again very season. Hopefully, that’s a lesson learned, and a long slog up the table can begin this week.

Herring had his best game so far for Ulster. Roger Wilson had easily his best game since he came back from the Saints and that combination of him at blindside and Williams at 8 will likely continue as first choice now. Callum Black has nailed down his position as our first choice loosehead for the time being ahead of Court. Scrum was a serious weapon, once again, and all with six Irish qualified front rows in the matchday squad. Paddy Jackson did a lot better in terms of his goal kicking, while the one he missed was disappointing (albeit close) 4 from 5 is good and the one he got from the halfway line was very good. Jared Payne continues to impress. Iain Henderson is really doing well.

Lot of positives.

Negatives- we will still be missing Paddy Wallace and Stuart Olding at 12 next week, which leaves us weak in the midfield. We may still be missing Gilroy, almost definitely missing Bowe and definitely missing Trimble which leaves us short of finishing ability. Lack of composure and leadership in the last 10 minutes to see the game out- feel like Paul Marshall and Chris Henry are pretty culpable here. Henry should have stepped up us our Captain when Muller came off and he came on. We consistently struggled with our clearances from our own 22 and constantly failed to take points from our visits to the other 22, as all covered above.

Team for Connacht

1. Callum Black
2. Rob Herring
3. Declan Fitzpatrick
4. Johann Muller (c)
5. Dan Tuohy
6. Roger Wilson
7. Sean Doyle
8. Nick Williams
9. Ian Porter
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Rory Scholes
12. Luke Marshall
13. Darren Cave
14. David McIlwaine
15. Jared Payne

16. Annett 17. Court 18. Lutton 19. Henderson 20. Henry 21. P. Marshall 22. McKinney 23. Allen

I think Michael Allen has a better all round game than Scholes by the way- but Scholes just comes alive when there is a chance of a try, Allen is the opposite. Very good all round but when the try is on you can practically see the confidence drain out of him.

Maybe Michael Allen will come good once he gets one or two scores, but I feel next week we need a natural finisher in the back three if we're missing all three international wings once again.

Notch - agreed about Henry and Marshall - Henry, in particular, gave away a stupid penalty when we were progressing nicely up the field and turned the momentum.

[I wrote a long paragraph here about Allen that you actually addressed in your second post there. I'd still start him. One of the best kick-chasers we have, importantly. Thought McIlwane looked substantially beter as well.]

Luke Marshall is an excellent player who missed the last month of Ulster’s previous season as well as the tour to NA. He just needs to get up to speed. The idea that he and Cave form a midfield that is “weak” I don’t buy at all. Like everyone, I am excited by Olding, but let’s not rush to outright revisionism. We need to stop using him as a bosh centre – his cross-kick to Tuohy(?) shows how far his talents range.

I think Luke Marshall right now is conceding the cardinal sin of centre play, which is becoming predictable and very easy to defend. I am so disappointed by his progress considering his talent.

Once he is able to use his brain and his hands to create opportunities for the players around him, we'll be in business and I'll feel like talk of Marshall for Ireland is justified. Right now, what he is a young player who is still developing and while I wouldn't say he's a weakness I wouldn't put him in the top 50% of centres in the league whilst Olding has shown he has the offloading game to be given a chance at a higher level. Just my two cents.

Luke Marshall has potential, once he stops trying to run through brick walls and win the game by himself.

He has been disappointing, certainly. But I'm confident he'll come good.

So am I, if he's able to use his head. He's just in an unusual position of being under pressure from a guy who is younger than him when he's still a young man himself.

So Luke Marshall coming good with the rust brushed off.

Cave still to get up to speed but he hasn't had enough time yet.

Anscombe really impressed with his halftime subs at the Sportsground - Jackson looked a different player in the SH.

The Great Aukster wrote:So Luke Marshall coming good with the rust brushed off.

Cave still to get up to speed but he hasn't had enough time yet.

Anscombe really impressed with his halftime subs at the Sportsground - Jackson looked a different player in the SH.

Yeah he looked A LOT better against Connacht. He just needs consistency, because he really is a class talent.

It must be really hard for a coach to find that balance for his players between,

"I need to perform as there is at least one other player really pushing for my shirt"

and,

"I am too scared to make a mistake so I won't try anything too risky or I'll be dropped!"

To make matters worse that balance is probably different from player to player. Obviously I don't know for sure but I have never got the impression that The Cowboy tends towards the second of those. Unlike other coaches we could name.

The game against Connacht gave me renewed hope/expectation that he is closer to finding that balance again with this group of players.

I do get the impression that LukeM has a tendency to try too hard at times. Maybe he is a player who needs a bit more of a show of faith than some of the others?

MrsP wrote:I do get the impression that LukeM has a tendency to try too hard at times. Maybe he is a player who needs a bit more of a show of faith than some of the others?

I have thought this for a while Mrs P. In fact I think the players from the big Belfast schools especially Methody have far more innate self-belief and confidence, than those from the country schools.

Players like Luke, Cave, McIlwaine, and in the past NOC were big fish in small ponds and never had to suffer criticism nor the ignominy of being dropped in their formative years. They also had to almost single-handedly carry the hopes of their teams and schools so would have been very carefully managed by their coaches.

Interesting angle on it Aukster.

But then it might just be personality type regardless of which school they attended.

Who knows?

But I think it's a great coach who can find that balance for each of his players.

So with Marshall showing he hasn't necessarily regressed (thankfully) are we back on track for considering Olding (or Luke) at 13? Wasn't that a possibility a few weeks back?

Also, is there any liklihood that Olding will ever take the kicks if Jackson has a howler? I understand Olding has a knack for it.

Interesting to see the comments about Marshall. Honestly I'm starting to have (some) doubts about whether he really has what it takes to be the top player we all want him to be. He does some things exceptionally well - line breaks, kicking from hand etc. - but makes an awful lot of handling errors, his long passing can be very poor and is pretty injury prone.

I wouldn't write him off but at this stage I have much more faith in Olding, he seems to have a mental steel about him even if he is on the small side.

That's interesting about Anscombe, its not a good sign if some players are not happy with his approach although that isn't always the best indicator of a coaches effectiveness - I did wonder if he wouldn't click with the likes of Pienaar.....

Speaking of whom, if he leaves that may not be a bad thing - amazing player for Ulster but it's time for the likes of Jackson, Marshall etc. to really run the show on the field and this will never happen fully whilst Pienaar is there.

Back to the OP - I think we started too well last year so having a bit more of a modest start this time might help us in the long run - there's plenty of quality to come back so I wouldn't be too worried about a few losses at this stage of the season.

The Great Aukster wrote:

MrsP wrote:I do get the impression that LukeM has a tendency to try too hard at times. Maybe he is a player who needs a bit more of a show of faith than some of the others?

I have thought this for a while Mrs P. In fact I think the players from the big Belfast schools especially Methody have far more innate self-belief and confidence, than those from the country schools.

Players like Luke, Cave, McIlwaine, and in the past NOC were big fish in small ponds and never had to suffer criticism nor the ignominy of being dropped in their formative years. They also had to almost single-handedly carry the hopes of their teams and schools so would have been very carefully managed by their coaches.

Ah here now I'll not have Limavady grammar referred to as a country school!

Interesting points though, probably something in that.

Crikey. A whole thread about a club where there's going to be absolutely nothing wrong at all in a month or so. Ulster will be in the playoff mix. I'd stake my Panini 1987 football sticker collection on it.
 
This reminds me of the time in every football season in the mid-90s when Manchester United would have two average results in a row, prompting the meeja to speculate as to the "crisis" they were in. The next week they were back to stuffing everybody in sight. Rather think it's going to be the same with this Ulster team.

Manu out for weeks (possibly months) must be good news for the red hand of man.

George Carlin wrote:Crikey. A whole thread about a club where there's going to be absolutely nothing wrong at all in a month or so. Ulster will be in the playoff mix. I'd stake my Panini 1987 football sticker collection on it.
 
This reminds me of the time in every football season in the mid-90s when Manchester United would have two average results in a row, prompting the meeja to speculate as to the "crisis" they were in. The next week they were back to stuffing everybody in sight. Rather think it's going to be the same with this Ulster team.

Right, so after last night what 'problems' are these, then?

George, note that the thread was started by a Scottish poster!

True, but to be fair to my esteemed colleague, IYA:
 

Cons
Your finishing is pretty pish poor
you don't seem to have much luck
Emmm .......
Emmm .......
Emmm .......
I can't think of any other negatives.

 
 
he seemed to correctly estimate the rather limited extent of your 'issues' at the time.