OMFG!! This is why we love rugby!

Thank you South Africa, thank you New Zealand. I need to go and have a lay down now and I'm a neutral. That was the most phenomenal 80 minutes of rugby that i've watched in a long time!

Two teams leaving nothing on the pitch, total rugby, total commitment and some insane tries.

And well done to Nigel Owens for allowing this spectacle to occur. The best reffing display of the year.

                   

 
Was really impressive from everyone on the field.

Glad the neutrals enjoyed it. I would have taken a "submission by attrition" grind over this defeat any day of the week.

Well done to both teams, it was an epic match contested in the spirit of playing beautiful, physical, running rugby.

I know we lost tonight, but I have never been more proud of the Springboks.

The All Blacks knew they had to bring their A game tonight and they did, in fact on the counter attack they brought their A+ game tonight.

The Springboks played with adventure, power, pace and a lot of heart.

Ultimately mistakes cost them the game, New Zealand were ruthless in their pursuit for punishing us on our errors, but I rather lose in this manner and know we threw everything out there and proved we can run the best team in the world over and score tries.

Sure we have to limit our mistakes and we need a new Flyhalf and Fullback.

But let no one tell me we don't have the skills or guts to play some brilliant rugby.

Congratulations to New Zealand.

I echo the sentiment of yappysnap.

Thank you to both teams, that was the game for the ages.

Absolutely BEAUTIFUL.

South Africa lost shape in the adventure of opening up with a wider game and paid the price with a lack of their usual defensive discipline. You can't switch into an expansive game plan suddenly and expect to match the masters. 

Effective expansive rugby isn't about helter-skelter. It's about percentages and execution. Picking that 5% of moments and nailing them.

The absurd tactic at the end of the first half to try to run from under their sticks handed NZ the game in the 40th minute of the first half. Nobody holds the All Blacks tryless for 40 minutes and expects to score  more tries themselves. 

Losing Habana was a big loss because it really revealed the otherwise lack of creativity out there. 

Good on the Springboks for giving it a go, and I think they need to persevere with this more exciting game and gain the experience needed to execute it effectively. 

Clearly Steyn was the wrong choice at 10 although I thought Kirchner had a decent if not spectacular game.

What will hurt SA most, aside from the defensive lapses , will be that they were out muscled around the ruck and NZs ball carriers were more effective in open play.

GE, you're not buying in to the spirit of this post are you?...sadly classless and getting worse.

Ignore him Tiger, no use getting pulled into his lack of respect or common sense.

Good one biltong...agree it was fantastic and all credit to Meyer and his troups. The most noticable absence was the infamous one ups that the boks normally do to make round...it was surreal- they hardly ever did it- instead they looked outwardly for support- Vermuelens and Louws handoffs to Habana sublime...chances created and taken, a real linking of the forwards and backs at pace that we've been waiting for.

Its true Kirchner had a horror in parts- hes lucky Le Roux scored straight after he blew an easy pass off to him on the right and took it into the tackle. Most of the backs also stood up which made for so much more expanse.

Defence is what ultimately cost them, the try before half time, a couple of missed tackles and one where Steyn was left to stop Messam and Retalik go over- lack of cover there.

But the boks have only been doing this stuff at this level for a few months now and theyll fix the defence easy enough. All they need is experience at this lavish approach now but the best thing is Meyer will hunt long and hard to find the players with the right skills to accommodate these gains and for the first time in years the boks are a real contender for the number one spot- and could do it in very short time.

It was the Boks that primarily made this match- the ABs more or less did what they always do- but the potential for this side once they sort out 10, 15 and their defensive patterns is huge, and they couldnt bein a better position for 2015 than they are now.

A fantastic day for Springbok rugby and a genuine sign of amazing things to come.

What a match...

Agree Taylorman. Pretty much exactly what I said  only a little more diplomatic.

This was the best game of rugby I have seen in recent years. No wonder they are 1 and 2 in the World.All the backrow players on display were excellent and heroes to a man. Very well played both teams  A special mention of JeanDe Villiers who apart from a wonderful display, inc a great try dismissed any notion of action over the team sheet 'typo'. A true gent  

I echo what everyone is saying about Nigel Owens, he did brilliantly and got into the spirit of the game. I also liked his approach to TMO decisions and looking at the big screen and making his mind up but just getting the final ok. There were no major talking points about the referees other than positive ones. The last 2 AB games that he's reffed I've been impressed with him, good stuff.

The game, wow, it felt like 95. I don't think the heart is supposed to beat like that at 4am. Great game, played in what seemed like good spirit with not much silly stuff, indiscretions were penalised fairly, plenty of tries (some good ones), close tries, non-tries, classy habana try, solo tries, few penalty kicks, relatively few re-set scrums (it seemed), team sheet dramas, unfortunate injuries, trophy on the line. It had it all. It just flowed and there was good accuracy from both teams for the most part.

Near the end you could see the players had given their all and passes we're dropping and tackles missed but I love seeing that after an epic battle where players are physically done. Unlucky SA and well done ABs, that was a classic we'll remember.

Yes, a true gent, as I pointed out during springbok appreciation week.

Couldn't agree more, finest game I've seen in my life. Finest refereeing display I've ever seen, Nige showed all the other officials in the world how to use the TMO.

"OMFG" is a bit cringey though...

Why are the NZ media twisting this into the 'Greatest ever All Blacks win' ?

I would argue that this was most certainly one of the greatest games played in the 21 Century if not the best. But it was not the greatest victory. To say this takes away the magnificent part played by the Boks who just scored less on the day.

Apart from the NZ media and one total idiot on here, most of us seem to agree on this. Not a WUM just don't feel the NZ media should report it like this.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Why are the NZ media twisting this into the 'Greatest ever All Blacks win' ?

I would argue that this was most certainly one of the greatest games played in the 21 Century if not the best.  But it was not the greatest victory.  To say this takes away the magnificent part played by the Boks who just scored less on the day.

Apart from the NZ media and one total idiot on here, most of us seem to agree on this. Not a WUM just don't feel the NZ media should report it like this.

I don't think they are. As I read it in the NZ media the general consensus was it was a great game. An epic game that we'll all remember in 10 years time.

As far as that downgrading this Bok team I'd say it's opposite. The "Greatest ever All Black win" would imply that this Bok side is a great side, after all a 90 pt thrashing of Japan is never going to qualify is it.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Why are the NZ media twisting this into the 'Greatest ever All Blacks win' ?

I would argue that this was most certainly one of the greatest games played in the 21 Century if not the best.  But it was not the greatest victory.  To say this takes away the magnificent part played by the Boks who just scored less on the day.

Apart from the NZ media and one total idiot on here, most of us seem to agree on this. Not a WUM just don't feel the NZ media should report it like this.

it was a great game indeed, it was a great win indeed, and even though it might sound corny, it was the greatest loss the Springboks had.

The one thing that I take out of this match is the mental barrier the Springboks broke. I knew if we ran from everywhere we would lose. I said that a number of times in the past week. Meyer knew we would and could not afford any mistakes. When you attack like that your defences will always be on the back foot as they are not setup for defence. The All Blacks are brilliant at exploiting that.

But, we played with no fear. And that was the revelation. Can anyone remember when was the last time they saw South Africa play with no fear?

This was one of the Greatest matches I`ve seen in my lifetime end to end stuff,I said
early in the 4Ns.The Boks were playing like some of there Super  sides with more width.
Mental barriers?a hoodoo ground,on the High Veldt the AllBlacks sorted that one too.
Meyer before the match said he was going for the 4Ns,so to me at least his only option
was to play ball in hand.Neither side got much domination in the set pieces,not even
against 7 men for a quarter of the match.
The All Blacks showed they weren't going to be intimidated by physicality and reacted
in kind.Stuart Barnes was really on the money Owen Franks wasn't sent off he didn't
play,it was the other Brother Grimm Ben.
Carping about the media eulogising there side winning 5-4 in tries away from home with
14 men for 20minutes.After winning a Tournament 6-0 for the 3 rd time in 4 years?
I can think of sides doing laps of Honour just earning a Draw against the AllBlacks.Suspect
most Kiwi fans would have said RWC Final 2011 but not a RWC hater like me.
Both these sides will grow stronger,and Australia won`t be far away come 2015,so the
trainspotters will be happy.
Nigel Owens did us proud,only two Penalty kicks at goal,NZ switched off for Le Roux`s
try as Messam was marching off.Should have been watching that copy of Frances 2011
RWC Group try.

Agree biltong, the shackles were off and if were a bok fan id have been stoked. I reckon barriers were broken to day and we got a glimpse of what is possible with this side. Sure mistakes were made but nothing a slight swing of the pendulum back to the trad. bok game and some more creative backplay wouldnt fix.

Seeing Louw and co offloading out wide to Habana was amazing and comments about the NZ defence being caught out several times was because theyre just not used to or expecting this and we were exposed easily on several occasions' Players like habana a le roux thrive on space to move freely and the difference between eden park and today was exemplified by their two performances.

Defence is the first casualty with a move to the wider game and that showed as well. But at least theyre areas that can be worked on more easily. This will send shudders through the rugby world for sure and now they just dont know what theyre going to get. A front foot 10 and an attacking 15 is all thats needed to make better use of the ball. Its the sort of performance that might have rocked the ABs but as we saw they were well warned and well up for this one.

But the main reason this was a great match was because of the Bok gameplay...attacking, slick and breathtaking at times. Well done Meyer and his side...and I think Id be right in saying we all look forward to more of this...where will this go to I dont know. Best test I can recall for years.

Go Bokke!

Absolutely phenomenal game. Top quality attacking. Felt for the boks as they (and possibly the game) deserved a more tense finish but unreal. The Boks are coming for NZ and I hope we can get a few NH teams (Ireland obviously) up a few levels to challenge too

I'm not as excited as Biltong, if I'm honest. We were bossed in the breakdowns, due to the lack of a class Fetcher. Rugby has evolved from Jake White's "The only time I need a fetcher is when my son gets my beer". We were stripped almost at will. We still haven't actually gotten close to NZ.

Quite a few positives of course: Kolisi was brilliant as always. As was his big mate Etzebeth. We scored four tries, Willie le Roux was outstanding. And For 20 minutes Habana showed why he is one of the greatest Boks of all time. We are clearly #2, I just don't know exactly how we beat #1

At 59 minutes when jdv scored, boks ahead with the 4 tries in the bag, Kirschner kicks the ball out on the full resulting in the barret try which kirschner also missed the tackle for. Steyn passing the ball in his own 22 with half time up resulted in messams try. Two tries that simply shouldnt have been scored and a potential SA champonship. Thats how close this game was. Sure we may have still scored tries but elimination of basic errors was all that was needed to perhaps take it out. Thats how close they were.

If`s,buts,and maybe`s,thats the game,All Blacks tend more than most sides to do the basics well.They don`t panic when they go behind,and usually make less mistakes than most sides
which is down to the large number of veterans forming the spine of this side.
As an AllBlack fan glad to see the youngsters coming thru,today Messam for the first time
[for me] looked a replacement for Kaino.Cane also looked good in last few games but still
Prefer Todd and Latimer,Aron Smith looks certain number 1 SH which is hard luck on Perenara.He really has a habit of injuring himself at the wrong time,Nonu had his best game
since 2009 [when he played everywhere].Crudon/Barrett plus all the rest are still going
well.Boks at last are varying there game,when you think players like Burger,Juan Smith,
Franny Steyn are still about,have a huge load of young talent coming thru.These 2 will
be where they have always been among the best couple of sides in the world for the
foreseeable future.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Why are the NZ media twisting this into the 'Greatest ever All Blacks win' ?

I would argue that this was most certainly one of the greatest games played in the 21 Century if not the best.  But it was not the greatest victory.  To say this takes away the magnificent part played by the Boks who just scored less on the day.

Apart from the NZ media and one total idiot on here, most of us seem to agree on this. Not a WUM just don't feel the NZ media should report it like this.

What are you talking about? South Africa at Ellis Park is NZ's largest hurdle. To go there, score five tries despite being down to 14 men twice, and win and have that win seal a second consecutive clean sweep of the toughest rugby tournament in the world is NZ's greatest victory.

That doesn't take away from SA at all - it is in fact a huge compliment. I rate this achievement up there with vanquishing the long standing French hoodoo at RWC in 2011.

NZ will no longer to frightened of the physicality of SA at altitude; they have now shown they have the formula to win. The very fact that SA were forced to change their style of game from the one they staunchly persisted with is a rugby cultural victory for NZ's style.

SA v NZ is, and for most of history has always been rugby's showpiece event. Until now it didn't really have a centrepiece match to hang its hat on other than the controversial 1995 final where to be honest the game lacked the style to match the intensity. Well now this match up has given world rugby possibly it's finest 80 minutes, eclipsing the great Bledisloe cup clash dubbed with the "greatest game ever" moniker.

Both countries can be proud to have delivered such a statement and asking the NZ media not to be proud of their victorious part is just plain Tall Poppy syndrome produced by a poster with small man syndrome.

yappysnap wrote:Thank you South Africa, thank you New Zealand. I need to go and have a lay down now and I'm a neutral. That was the most phenomenal 80 minutes of rugby that i've watched in a long time!

Two teams leaving nothing on the pitch, total rugby, total commitment and some insane tries.

And well done to Nigel Owens for allowing this spectacle to occur. The best reffing display of the year.

                   

Seconded.  all round!

It was an epic match..... And proves why Ellis park matches are so memorable.

SA showed they are not quite there but they are well on the way... When SA scored that 4th try NZ looked like a beaten side... McCaw (albeit only 90% fit) looked like he had nothing more to give and it Messam and Read looked like the torch has been finally passed on.

Barrett... What a player... To run down a 24yr old 3/4 is something else. he has a good boot on him too and for me looks a better prospect then cruden? he always seems to appear in the big games.

had it been a no bonus point game I think it would have been a different game as the boks said... To hell with it, beating NZ is not enough, let's go for it.... Ok it didn't pay off but the spirit was outstanding.

Obvious issues still with the boks.... Like we said in NZ, the tackling isn't good enough... To high and too many players were getting needlessly bounced, get the tackle in waist high.

why oh why did Meyer take off Bismarck at that scrum.... It was madness, we all said so at the time. Strauss has less power and his lineout was terrible. 

thought the lineout was poor overall too, etzebeth took to much ball... Where was Kruger, where was vermeulen at 3rd receiver??? NZ snuffed out the bok lineout well and in fact looked dominant.

The 3rd AB try changed the game, but that will come with experience.

Jean de Villiers should be nominated for world player of the year with Smith and Read though... The  guy has stepped up immensely and no longer is he just holding the position for Steyn... True class never dies.

I think the boks will be better for it come next year... They could have won the match if they said, let's keep things tight and win with the odd try but they opened it up, played with so much heart and it was a great advert for rugby.

Who can beat this AB side.... England will have to be better then they were last year to turn them over. No one else will get close... This side is as good as their record... 1 loss in what 30 games??? Amazing really.

Think the day of carter and Mccaw have gone.... If they do, they won't be missed!!! if that's the case, it's slightly frightening wouldn't you say!!!

Yes I think Read, C smith, B Smith, Habana and JdV all probably eclipsed even 1/2p's Lions heroics in this series. But the award tends to be political so it will probably go to Contepomi or the likes.

Australia v Pumas was also a belter of a game. Good day for rugby.

Not quite sure about your second paragraph fa0019. Both sides demonstrated that they refused to give up the game as beaten. McCaw shouldn't have by any right playing in that game with his injury but the fact that he stayed out there in that kind of game shows the enormous ticker he has.

NZ twice had one man down but kept their composure. They were under the pump at key times but came back when they needed to.

At 59 mins and with jdvs try it looked like SAs best chance to drill it home. Kirchners kick out on the full fron 10m from his own line put NZ straight back on attack and barrett scored- series over. Fa the ABs are never beaten with 20 to go but crucial errors helped NZ back in thats for sure. They just need more experience at the expansive game and judging by this years results versus oz etc, theyre getting it.

Taylorman wrote:At 59 minutes when jdv scored, boks ahead with the 4 tries in the bag, Kirschner kicks the ball out on the full resulting in the barret try which kirschner also missed the tackle for. Steyn passing the ball in his own 22 with half time up resulted in messams try. Two tries that simply shouldnt have been scored and a potential SA champonship. Thats how close this game was. Sure we may have still scored tries but elimination of basic errors was all that was needed to perhaps take it out. Thats how close they were.

That is exactly my thoughts, simple errors cost us the game.

Replace Steyn with Goosen or Lambie, and replace Kirchner with Aplon, Lambie, Frans Steyn (If he returns to form) or Jaco Taute.

We moved from a doubtfull third place last year to a convincing second. Our game plan has improved, our breakdown has improved.

Our scrums have improved a lot, our line outs are good but needs Pieter Steph du Toit, we need burger back, or alternatively Arno Botha to have more pace and balance in the back row, Goosen will make a huge difference.

Steyn has been solid but not spectacular, Kirhcner has poor decision making and kicks poor.

Those two cost us the match and when you go look for reasons why we make mistakes and put ourselves under unnecessary pressure you need to look no further than those two.

Yes, our tackling against New Zealand was poor, but the truth is when you go all out attack you will leave spaces in defence because you are not set up for that.

We had a few tries which came close as well.

If we can almost outplay the all BLacks, we can outplay anyone else.

That is what is better than before.

We have been playing expansively for 4 months, wait till we have done this for 3 years.

Frans Steyn is done, finished at 26, like Gazza. Overloved, given too many allowances, Spoilt basically

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Not quite sure about your second paragraph fa0019. Both sides demonstrated that they refused to give up the game as beaten. McCaw shouldn't have by any right playing in that game with his injury but the fact that he stayed out there in that kind of game shows the enormous ticker he has.

NZ twice had one man down but kept their composure. They were under the pump at key times but came back when they needed to.

Just thought whilst Mccaw was injured and fast tracked back... read and messam showed that there is life after the great one. 5 years ago when NZ were without Mccaw they suffered... Now, it's not the case.

Biltong what did you think of Kolisi? He sounds like a character from Game of Thrones but looked impressive off the bench.

Agree Kirtchner was far too poor. He couldnt live with the style of game being played and just looked out if his depth. Leinster fans must be a little worried...

I like Kolisi, but he is nothing more than an impact sub.

He isn't a natural pilferer and he isn't the best ball carrier.

When you consider players like Alberts and Arno botha, he won't hold a candle to them.

He is an awesome tackler.... He misses about 2 tackles a season... And not just that he often puts in about 12+ a game and we at the stormers often utilise him as first tackler against the big centres flankers in phase 1.

His ruck work is a little poor but he's not a natural carrier on the charge but he can run nice lines and has a lot of pace about him.

Lineout wise he's short so chaps like Alberts, burger, spies are more suited and scrum time he's a little on the light side.

Totally deserves his place though in the squad, he has a lot of heart and when you think he stopped nonu on the line he showed his worth in defence.... Something the boks are quite poor at currently.

Every player has his merits but the backrow for me is a balance... You need a good ball carrier, a good ruck operator, a 3rd lineout option and a good tackler.... 4 doesn't go into 3 so you need multi skilled players.

Alberts - the best carrier in SA. A 60 min player though too heavy for a full game. Can't use him as a lineout option due to height and weight and not the best at ruck time.

spies - good at base of scrum, the best backrow lineout option in SA and decent ball in hand. No ruck work and not a prolific tackler.

Louw - good ruck operator, solid tackler, can work in lineout. very good all round player.

vermeulen - good carrier, excellent catcher of high balls, decent tackler. Needs to add to lineout skills.

Kolisi - best tackler in SA squad, decent carrier in space but not on charge, no lineout, little use in scrum.

In myself think that Alberts is a better impact player and that kolisi suits a team like NZ as you need players to take on their runners. at the moment SA has too many holes to exploit.

So what are you saying.... They need Schalk Burger?!

Louw and Vermeulen have been a revelation. SA's back-row depth is unbelievable. And for the record, Kolisi has looked very good each time I've watched him. I believe he's there on merit.

A backrow of louw, vermeulen and burger would be very well balanced.

Burger is a good tackler, can take the ball up as first receiver and a decent lineout option at the tail.

vermeulen carriers very well, takes the ball off kicks superbly and can control a scrum whereas louw is a premier ruck operator.

It's the old stormers 678.

But is burger to return to glories old???  Debatable, he's been back but he's only had 20 mins a game thus far so difficult to stress if he can return to past glories.

kolisi is the best tackler in the bok squad so he's there on merit. but it's a balance... You can't have 3 defenders in your backrow and if burger for instance can show himself to be back to his all action best then Alberts or kolisi will drop out the 23.... And it depends who you face into who gets the bench spot... Do you need a carrier or a defender???

It's a turning point for the game when of all back rowers on display McCaw was the most anonymous. He was solid but no better and eclipsed by messam and read just on the All Blacks side. I wonder if Cane shouldn't have been given his full wings. 

Nice to see izzy back into top form and Savea's work rate continuing to improve and team work instincts kicking in. 

Much is made of Australian redevelopment and the youth of the springbok team but there are plenty of young faces in this NZ side already acting like seniors. Aaron smith, Ben smith, Savea, Barrett, Cruden, luatua, Coles, Faumauina, retaillick,  Saili...

Most if these guys weren't around at the last RWC or were rookies and now it's hard to imagine the All Blacks without them and they've been integrated seamlessly whilst retaining #1 ranking.

One of the best ABs of the day foR me was your lineout king whitelock, he destroyed the Boks set piece and starved them of of quality ball.... The guy is a 50 cap vet and he's 24.... In a position where he can go on until he's 35. Only going to get better.

Biltong wrote:If we can almost outplay the all BLacks, we can outplay anyone else.

I've just corrected it from an England point of view

Seriously though, brilliant game and fantastic to see the Boks playing some great stuff.

Tremendous!

Biltong wrote:I like Kolisi, but he is nothing more than an impact sub.

He isn't a natural pilferer and he isn't the best ball carrier.

When you consider players like Alberts and Arno botha, he won't hold a candle to them.

He looks like a fantastic ball carrier in my opinion Biltong - different mould from Alberts though. He has great line breaking ability, and is deadly in open play. In the tight exchanges he won't have as much of an impact though.

He reminds me a lot of the french player Yannick Nyanga. Similar build, similar skill set. Nyanga was wasted by France.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Biltong wrote:I like Kolisi, but he is nothing more than an impact sub.

He isn't a natural pilferer and he isn't the best ball carrier.

When you consider players like Alberts and Arno botha, he won't hold a candle to them.

He looks like a fantastic ball carrier in my opinion Biltong - different mould from Alberts though.  He has great line breaking ability, and is deadly in open play.  In the tight exchanges he won't have as much of an impact though.

He reminds me a lot of the french player Yannick Nyanga.  Similar build, similar skill set.  Nyanga was wasted by France.

rory, he is a very good player, I just think there are better in SA.

When you look at Arno Botha, he is built like Spies, but he knows how to use that, and he is only 21.

To be honest I think Kolisi is a different sort of player, compared to the other options. He offers something different, and he looks like the sort of player who would excel in broken play, both in offence and defence.

It really depends on what the rest of the back row looks like. Botha and Kolisi could form a good flanking partnership, for example.

Let's remember that Kolisi is only 100kg, woefully undersized amongst Bok forwards, and even Backs really... Expecting Alberts like performances feels like drawing blood from a rock. With that said, I think Siya is a better bet than Willem if the Boks play running rugby. Doesn't miss any more tackles, and is the better athlete, with a wider scope for improvement.

I'd still wait on how Burger comes back, before anointing anyone anything. The guy is simply special when on it. A shaggy wrecking ball who knows no limits.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:To be honest I think Kolisi is a different sort of player, compared to the other options. He offers something different, and he looks like the sort of player who would excel in broken play, both in offence and defence.

It really depends on what the rest of the back row looks like.  Botha and Kolisi could form a good flanking partnership, for example.

That's why I say he is a good impact sub, let someone else do the softening up and he can be the link man in the last quarter.

kingraf wrote:Let's remember that Kolisi is only 100kg, woefully undersized amongst Bok forwards, and even Backs really... Expecting Alberts like performances feels like drawing blood from a rock. With that said, I think Siya is a better bet than Willem if the Boks play running rugby. Doesn't miss any more tackles, and is the better athlete, with a wider scope for improvement.

I'd still wait on how Burger comes back, before anointing anyone anything. The guy is simply special when on it. A shaggy wrecking ball who knows no limits.

According to the stats, Kolisi is 101/102kg and Arno Botha is 103kg. Marcell Coetzee is 106kg.

All are much lighter than previous back row options in the past. Could be a good thing, more mobility across the park.

As a comparison with the current SA back row:

6) Francois Louw - 191cm, 112kg
7) Willem Alberts - 192cm, 120kg
8) Duane Vermeulen - 193cm, 116kg

Obviously that is a contender (if not the winner) for the biggest back row combination in the world, but the next options for SA are all much smaller.

Biltong wrote:We moved from a doubtfull third place last year to a convincing second. Our game plan has improved, our breakdown has improved.

Our scrums have improved a lot, our line outs are good but needs Pieter Steph du Toit, we need burger back, or alternatively Arno Botha to have more pace and balance in the back row, Goosen will make a huge difference.

Steyn has been solid but not spectacular, Kirhcner has poor decision making and kicks poor.

Those two cost us the match and when you go look for reasons why we make mistakes and put ourselves under unnecessary pressure you need to look no further than those two.

Yes, our tackling against New Zealand was poor, but the truth is when you go all out attack you will leave spaces in defence because you are not set up for that.

We had a few tries which came close as well.

If we can almost outplay the all BLacks, we can outplay anyone else.

That is what is better than before.

We have been playing expansively for 4 months, wait till we have done this for 3 years.

Completely agree, the other thing thats happening is youre winning the games you should according to the rankings. There might have been one or two that slipped in this year but didnt, this style will generally take care of those, leaving only the ABs to deal with. And once he points and tries come a little easier, defence isnt so much an issue in terms of the score. The ABs let tries in, but generally score more. As Conrad Smith said, "we know the boks would have their moments"...it is this confidence that allows the side to peresevere.

In the end the attack points go up as they get more experienced and likewise the defence gets stronger as they apply a similar across the field defensive pattern, other sides getting more desperate in catchup mode.

Thats where the real gains are made. SA put the heat on NZ to score tries, and because of our current position, we were able to respond. No one else can do that, proven by SAs record this year alone- oz the primary victim so far.

So completely agree Biltong, the Boks are going through a rennaisance with their game...and the beauty of it is they already have the grounds and players to pursue it. Meyer now needs to pull in the sxv and other franchises and convince them of the need to supply his side with the sort of players he needs, make it infec tious.

This is why a breakaway to the NH wouldnt help their progress. A year or two of Meyers vision and we'll see some big gains in Bok rugby...and its well overdue.

Taylorman, just look at our try scoring under PDV in the last two years of his tenure.

Against the three rugby championship and six nation teams, excluding Italy.

In 18 test matches we scored only 33 tries, that is less than 2 tries oer match.

Last year same opponents and including Argentina under Meyer in his first year.

In 12 tests we scored 23 tries, almost averaging 2 tries per match.

This year.

In 7 tests, 26 tries, almost twice as many.

Twas a pleasure to watch, How can any other team in world rugby live with these two? more than another level ahead, a good four five levels ahead of the rest.