Manny news

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sat May 14, 2011 4:54 am

First topic message reminder :

Same as the Floyd thread any Manny news put on this thread to stop the board being cluttered.

by BALTIMORA Tue May 17, 2011 10:38 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:Bit more serious now, you were wrong about the 100 yard dash, weren't you ?

It was an good bit of evidence Windy but still have doubts over Jeffries's claims.

So you were wrong, then, about the record ?

Wrong.

Yes ?

No we were talking about two different records 100m and 100 yard dash.

No you weren't. Stop lying.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue May 17, 2011 10:38 pm

He's scottish in D4's dreams....

He say's "Och de newww" and "see you Jimmy" before asking him to "get the butter"

by Rowley Tue May 17, 2011 10:38 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
prettyboykev wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:Manny Pacquiao has a better Scottish accent than Sean Connery.

Sir Sean Connery to you old fella. Us Scots are very proud of Sir Sean the best Bond ever. Although if Manny was to take over from Daniel Craig he would no doubt be the man Bond was made for.

I'm confused, is Manny Scottish?

The concept of nationality holds no meaning to Manny as he is too great to be held to such a parochial and insular concept. Work is currently underway to disolve all nations and borders and create every land mass into the People's Republic of Pacquaio. The best advice I can give you all is watch this space and avoid renewing your passports any time soon.

by Guest Tue May 17, 2011 10:40 pm

So all roads will lead to Pacquiao then?

by Rowley Tue May 17, 2011 10:41 pm

DAVE667 wrote:So all roads will lead to Pacquiao then?

Already do Dave this just formalises what everyone already knows. Got to say as someone working in immigration should make my job a lot easier.

by **HumanWindmill** Tue May 17, 2011 10:42 pm

Fair enough, D4. Thank you.

by Guest Tue May 17, 2011 10:45 pm

Dunno, might make things awkward when you're going on Holiday and you're asking for directions.

"You wanna go down Pacquiao for about three miles, then turn left on Pacquiao. Follow that for half a mile, you'll come the intersection of Pacquiao and Pacquiao. Take a right there. That will bring to the town of Pacquiao. About three quarters of the way across, you'll reach Pacquiao. Bear left then immediately take the next right onto Pacquiao and it's just there...signposted Pacquiao!"

by **HumanWindmill** Tue May 17, 2011 10:48 pm

rowley wrote:create every land mass into the People's Republic of Pacquaio.

Or, PROP, for short.

by Mind the windows Tino. Tue May 17, 2011 10:48 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Dunno, might make things awkward when you're going on Holiday and you're asking for directions.

"You wanna go down Pacquiao for about three miles, then turn left on Pacquiao. Follow that for half a mile, you'll come the intersection of Pacquiao and Pacquiao. Take a right there. That will bring to the town of Pacquiao. About three quarters of the way across, you'll reach Pacquiao. Bear left then immediately take the next right onto Pacquiao and it's just there...signposted Pacquiao!"

You could have Pacquiao doing his William Wallace voice on your sat nav.

by Rowley Tue May 17, 2011 10:50 pm

Think you are underestimating the dream like Utopia this new state would be Dave, if you were already in Pacquiao why would you want to go anywhere else, or indeed feel the need to go on holiday.

by Mind the windows Tino. Tue May 17, 2011 10:51 pm

rowley wrote:Think you are underestimating the dream like Utopia this new state would be Dave, if you were already in Pacquiao why would you want to go anywhere else, or indeed feel the need to go on holiday.

"if you were already in Pacquiao"

I know someone who has been.

by BALTIMORA Tue May 17, 2011 10:54 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:Dunno, might make things awkward when you're going on Holiday and you're asking for directions.

"You wanna go down Pacquiao for about three miles, then turn left on Pacquiao. Follow that for half a mile, you'll come the intersection of Pacquiao and Pacquiao. Take a right there. That will bring to the town of Pacquiao. About three quarters of the way across, you'll reach Pacquiao. Bear left then immediately take the next right onto Pacquiao and it's just there...signposted Pacquiao!"

You could have Pacquiao doing his William Wallace voice on your sat nav.

Have you seen the brian blessed one? It's pretty...interesting. Of course, Manny would be a better Brian Blessed if he wanted to.

by Guest Tue May 17, 2011 10:55 pm

rowley wrote:Think you are underestimating the dream like Utopia this new state would be Dave, if you were already in Pacquiao why would you want to go anywhere else, or indeed feel the need to go on holiday.

Can't believe someone wouldn't want to experience everything that Pacquiao had to offer and explore every nook, cranny and (cough) crevice!

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 12:55 am

http://www.boxingscene.com/pacquiaos-adviser-talks-marquez-trilogy-steroid-claims--39254

Koncz trashes the latest steroid claims.

The latest smear campaign to discredit Pacquiao has been trashed by Michael Koncz, Pacquiao's advisor.

The claim was from anonymous poster poster under pseudonym of “The Shadow,” or the username of “mikejohnson313.” But that did not stop Floyd Mayweather posting it on his site almost immediately.

It claims that a Filipino sparring partner injected Pacquiao with steroids?

Why would you want a sparring partner to carry out this and Pacquiao has not had a Filipino sparring partner for several years.

Why do some people feel the need to make up blatant lies to discredit a great fighter?

by **HumanWindmill** Wed May 18, 2011 12:58 am

The views of Adam Pollack, worldwide respected boxing biographer, historian and journalist :

Manny Pacquiao was born 12-17-78. Height - 5'5 1/2". Turned pro 1-22-95 at age 16 at 106 pounds. In his next ten fights, he fought at an average weight of 108.8, with his highest weight being 113. On 2-9-96, age 17, 11-0 record, at 112 pounds, he got knocked out in 3 rounds by 110 pound Rustico Torrecampo. Pac wins his next 15 fights, including the OPBF flyweight title at 112 against Chokchai Chockvivat, who was 34-2, and, on 12-4-98, the WBC world flyweight title at 112 pounds, when Pac was age 19, just 13 days shy of age 20, KO'ing 33-1 Chatchai Sasakul. He had one non-title bout and one successful defense before being KO'd in 3 rounds by 18-0 Medgoen Singsurat in September '99. So his last fight at 112 pounds was when he was 20 years old.

In Dec. '99, Pac goes up to 122 pounds and wins the WBC International Super Bantamweight title against 41-5 Reynante Jamili. Pac is age 21.

Pac is clearly very comfortable at 122 pounds, successfully defending the 122-pound title eleven (11) times through July 2003, when at age 24 he weighed in at 120 pounds against Emanuel Lucero, easily making the 122-pound limit and looking great in KO'ing the 21-0-1 fighter.

On 11-15-03 he moves up to 126 and kicks the rudey poo out of the best featherweight in the world, Marco Antonio Barrera, stopping him in 11 rounds. On 5-8-04, at age 25, in a 126-pound featherweight fight, Pac drops Juan Manuel Marquez three times in the 1st round but then proceeds to lose most of the rounds over the course of the rest of the fight and eeks a 12-round draw.

Pac fights as a featherweight once more, in December 2004, before moving up to 130 pounds and losing a 12-round decision to Erik Morales in March 2005, when Pac was age 26. In January 2006, Pac avenges the loss by stopping Morales in 10 rounds. That year, he defeats Oscar Larios by decision, and KOs Morales in 3 and looks fantastic in that fight.

In 2007-2008, all at 130 pounds, Pac scores a KO8 Jorge Solis, W12 Barrera, and in March 2008, at age 29, once again is neck and neck with Juan Manuel Marquez, eeking a split 12-round decision. We are talking a 29-year old fighter who is still easily making 130 pounds, and is neck and neck with Marquez, and just recently went 12 with Barrera.

The bulk of this man's career, throughout his 20s, has been fought at 122-130 pounds (although he was still making 112 at age 20). Throughout those years, the 5'5 1/2" fighter looked strong, fast, active, and sharp, and from 122-130, never appeared to be weight drained, and never claimed to be so. The weight appeared to be perfectly appropriate for his small frame.

In June 2008, at age 30, he moves up to 135 for his very first fight at that weight and looks fantastic in scoring a KO9 against 34-1-1 David Diaz to win the WBC lightweight title. He wears the weight very well.

Six months later, after fighting only one time at 135, he moves up in weight yet again, up to 142 pounds, to take on 145-pound Oscar de la Hoya, a fighter who has never been stopped in his entire career at any weight other than when he fought at 155 pounds against the reigning world middleweight champion, and at that by a single body shot, despite having fought the best fighters in the world at 147 pounds. Pac is 11 days shy of age 30. A guy who was neck and neck with Marquez and barely got a split decision over 12 rounds at age 29 in March 2008, who has fought most of his career and his prime age-range in the 120-pound range, before that very same year is over moves all the way up to welterweight and not not only defeats de la Hoya, he utterly dominates him, pounding away, and forcing the retirement in 8 rounds. Something doesn't smell right.

Well, maybe Oscar was just past it. Okay. He then fights Ricky Hatton at 140 pounds, a weight at which Hatton has never lost. Pac brutally drills him in 2 rounds. Hmm. Well, maybe Hatton had no chin and was weight drained and had lost something by getting stopped by Floyd in the 10th. But 2 rounds? Doesn't seem right. He then fights Cotto, a natural welterweight, who has fought most of his career there, who is a real puncher, who has lost only once (with perhaps an asterisk), and has had two wins since that loss. Again, Pac rips through him and utterly dominates, pounding on him for 12 rounds. Cotto's punches have no effect and Pac's punches have Cotto hurt bewildered, dropped, and on the run. Josh Clottey, a very strong welter with an iron jaw, who looked very good and barely lost to the nonstop punching Margarito, who beat the living hell out of the sharp punching Corrales, who beat the southpaw Zab Judah, who lost a split decision to the hard punching skilled Cotto, all men with strong punches, is so intimidated by Pac's blazing speed and ferocious power that he just covers up for 12 rounds, afraid to open up and throw lest he might get hit. Huh? Sure Margarito was not as active and the glove blah blah, but he was a big, tall, strong guy, who weighed in at 150 pounds, three above welterweight, who got into phenomenal shape, and had one 12-round comeback tune-up against a solid fighter. Again, Pac utterly dominates and has a guy known for his nonstop offensive output gun shy. Mosley, again old and past it, but still a guy known for trying, and known for his ability to take it, gets dropped once and barely wants to throw against this guy and wants to mostly defend and not get hit by this brand of speed and power.

We are talking about a guy who at age 20 was 112 pounds, who has a decision loss to Morales, who was life and death twice with Marquez at 130 and below, who is now taking on welterweights and junior middleweights and has them scared to death of his speed, power, and volume. Huh?

How many times in history has a 5'5" guy fought his entire 20s in one weight range, looked great, and then moved up in his 30s 3-4 weight divisions and not only won, but utterly dominated, and actually looked even better than he did when he was in his prime years?

So, no, I don't fault Floyd Mayweather for wanting Olympic-style drug testing.

I personally hate Mayweather's style. I find him to be boring and I think a fight with Pac might very well be very boring. I much prefer to see Pac win. Pac is the one who is fun to watch. I find Pac's most dull round more entertaining than Floyd's most exciting round. That said, I think two fighters should have to enter a fight on an equal level, with no unfair advantage. If Pac beats him, or any fighter, it should have to be fair and square, and not enhanced by something the other fighter isn't taking because it is illegal.

I'm not saying Pac is taking something illegal. What I am saying is the circumstantial evidence is such that it legitimately justifies and warrants healthy suspicion such that a reasonable person could be justified in wanting Olympic-style drug testing.

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:07 am

So the guys is amazed by Pacquiao's ability. who can blame him.

And Pacquiao was severely weight drained at 112 at 20, an thats why he lost to Singsurat.

Pacquiao is also 5"6 and a half. How tall was Langford or Quai?

The guy doesn't know his boxing.

by coxy0001 Wed May 18, 2011 1:10 am

D4thincarnation wrote:So the guys is amazed by Pacquiao's ability. who can blame him.

And Pacquiao was severely weight drained at 112 at 20, an thats why he lost to Singsurat.

Pacquiao is also 5"6 and a half. How tall was Langford or Quai?

The guy doesn't know his boxing.

Actually, he knows far far far more than you and you only say that because your warped one dimensional views don't agree with it.

You're more than happy to quote an article when you agree with it, yet when something goes against your pathetic views you say he "doesn't know his boxing"... Even though the guy is massively respected

And you wonder why you've been given 2 threads to spout your rubbish on. Just highlights how this board views you eh?

Must be a gutter that no other poster is viewed so negatively they've in effect been placed with a babysitter as they can't be trusted on the forum as a whole

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:15 am

coxy0001 wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:So the guys is amazed by Pacquiao's ability. who can blame him.

And Pacquiao was severely weight drained at 112 at 20, an thats why he lost to Singsurat.

Pacquiao is also 5"6 and a half. How tall was Langford or Quai?

The guy doesn't know his boxing.

Actually, he knows far far far more than you and you only say that because your warped one dimensional views don't agree with it.

You're more than happy to quote an article when you agree with it, yet when something goes against your pathetic views you say he "doesn't know his boxing"... Even though the guy is massively respected

And you wonder why you've been given 2 threads to spout your rubbish on. Just highlights how this board views you eh?

Must be a gutter that no other poster is viewed so negatively they've in effect been placed with a babysitter as they can't be trusted on the forum as a whole

That article is very poor. He gets many facts wrong and doesn't seem to know the history of boxing.

Pacquiao ring weight has only gone up a few lbs in 5 years.

I have not been given anything these thread are for everyone.

by **HumanWindmill** Wed May 18, 2011 1:19 am

I BELIEVE PACQUIAO HAS TAKEN PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS
May 13th, 2011 By Pedro Fernandez

PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE ENOUGH FOR ME

Superman Is Fiction
San Francisco, CA- There was an article floating around the Internet yesterday that claimed a sparring partner had shot Manny Pacquiao up with steroid injections. I posted the article and then when the original source pulled it, I did as well. That being said, having been a boxer with over 40 years of involvement, it wasn’t that I didn’t believe the story, but when the original link went south, I decided to go in another direction.
MANY THINK MANNY TOOK STEROIDS & THE LIKE
Look, this is not a subject that should be taken lightly. Being suspected of wrongdoing can be a heavy cross to bare. That being said, I find it hard to NOT believe that Manny Pacquiao has used Performance Enhancement Drugs. The king of all sport cheats, the now reformed Victor Conte of BALCO Labs fame, is the opinion that nobody can bulk up the way Pacquiao has on fish and rice alone. Now while I disagree on certain matters with Conte, personally I feel he is biting his tongue on the this and the Barry Bonds matter. Having personally watched Pacquiao grow from a skinny 122 lb. fighter personally to a 145 lb. monster, to me this is not from a diet of fish and rice.
SUPERMAN IS A COMIC BOOK EXCEPT IN THE PHILIPPINES
All you need to do to get a firm grasp/opinion on the matter is to look at the baseball stars of the prior decade. Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, there is more than a preponderance of evidence that these three, among many others, used Steroids and the like to bulk up their bodies, thus enabling them to hit the baseball further than they normally could. When Jose Canseco said it, and later stars like Roger Clemens, who will go on trial soon, Alex Rodriquez and others were put under such pressure from the media, all except Bonds and Clemens, admitted such. America, white America in particular were at one point in the same state of denial Filipinos are in today over Manny.
A LOT OF THE CHEATERS WERE RUN OUT OF THE GAME
Most of the baseball players, even Rafael Palmero, who was caught on Steroids, this after vehemently denying any use before Congress, was run out of baseball. Baseball’s best hitter, Manny Ramirez, too has been run out of the game, retired, instead of taking a second suspension for using Steroids and the like. Barry Bonds, after being released from the Giants, no team picked him up, not even desperate for power hitter teams in the American league where he could have been used as a designated hitter. The bottom line is that a great majority of the baseball players that were performing far beyond their norm were cheating and some have admitted it. May I note, that not one of the players named by Jose Canseco in his book ever pursued legal action.
WHERE IS THE DIFFERENCE WITH PACQUIAO?
The only difference I believe is that Manny Pacquiao been in denial since the topic of his using steroids and other drugs has come to light, and that the regulators in boxing really don’t give a spit. Like the Major League Baseball owners of the 90s, who were hurting at the gate, meaning less people were attending games, all of a sudden ball parks across both leagues were filled with fans because of the fact home runs were being hit at a record pace. Nevada, the state has been hurting because of the decline in gaming and boxing attendance, and it being the site of the biggest boxing, and more importantly biggest MMA (UFC) fights, I don’t think want to go there as many people feel a lot of MMA fighters are juiced.
MANNY, IN MY OPINION, HAS CHEATED……PERIOD!
I’ve talked to Dr.’s, other athletes, fighters such as Paulie Malignaggi, Miguel Cotto, Andre Ward, and with the exception of Ward who, “Doesn’t want to point a finger at Manny Pacquiao,” still, like Cotto and Paulie is suspicious that a fighter could bulk up like Pacquiao has done on rice and fish alone and believes Manny should have agreed to random testing, this from an Olympian who had people waiting outside of his house unannounced to test him prior to the Olympics. When I think of the great Roberto Duran, having watched him move up 40 lbs. from his original fighting weight, he was not nearly as solid, let alone ripped like Pacquiao became. Nor did his head appear to grow.
HEY, HOW MANY FOLKS HAVE HEAD GROWTH?
Like Barry Bonds trainer admitted with Barry, Manny Pacquiao’s head has in m eyes noticeably grown in size, I could lay out pictures that show such, but the people most in denial, the starved of sports star Philippine population will accuse me of photo shopping the pictures as they did the last time. Having known Filipinos, I can tell you that one trait they seem to have as an ethnic group is a refusal to ever admit fault or being wrong.
HAD MANNY TAKEN TESTS LAST YEAR, ISSUE WOULD BE DEAD!
Although I will get into Floyd Mayweather in another article today, all I have to say, and this is not conjecture or opinion. Had Manny agreed to take the “random” testing without a cut off date, he and Floyd would have fought last March, and this being 14 months, might have already had a rematch.
PACQUIAO IS NOT FROM KRYPTON!
Manny is from General Santos City and not the planet Krypton. There is no such thing as Superman, nor Superman-like achievements. We have to give Manny credit fir being a tough guy, but to think that he has achieved the accomplishments he has in boxing naturally, is akin to believing Pamela Anderson’s breasts are natural.
Pedro Fernandez

by coxy0001 Wed May 18, 2011 1:20 am

Doesn't seem to know the history of boxing.

Doesn't know the history yeah? Let me enlighten you (again)

Has written "in the ring with Bob Fitz/Jeffries and i think Hart"

Is a renowned boxing historian. No surprise you haven't heard of him as your history of boxing starts and ends with Pacquiao

by talkingpickle Wed May 18, 2011 1:21 am

Hold the phone! He's not from Krypton!

Shocker Wink

by Scottrf Wed May 18, 2011 1:21 am

Not to resurrect an old argument but these guys are focussing on his weight on the scales, not ring weights. He just cuts less now. He has put on weight no quicker than Floyd Mayweather for example. In fact when Pacquiao first turned pro, Mayweather has even said he weighed the same, and Floyd is the bigger man now.

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:21 am

Hopefully Manny can use all this in his defamation case against Mayweather.

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:24 am

Scottrf wrote:Not to resurrect an old argument but these guys are focussing on his weight on the scales, not ring weights. He just cuts less now. He has put on weight no quicker than Floyd Mayweather for example. In fact when Pacquiao first turned pro, Mayweather has even said he weighed the same, and Floyd is the bigger man now.

Seems strange Oscar and Floyd and other can go up the weight and no suspicion will be leveled at them but Pacquiao does it, and he almost certainly has according to some people.

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:25 am

There is also the two arguments that controdict each other.

Pacquiao is too good and he is using steroids, and Pacquiao is overrated, he has taking on weakened opponents and there have been many better fighters than him.

These arguments are used by the same people

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Wed May 18, 2011 1:27 am

D4thincarnation wrote:There is also the two arguments that controdict each other.

Pacquiao is too good and he is using steroids, and Pacquiao is overrated, he has taking on weakened opponents and there have been many better fighters than him.

These arguments are used by the same people

http://www.boxingsocialist.com/profiles/blogs/manny-pacquiao-news-i-injected?xg_source=activity

by BALTIMORA Wed May 18, 2011 1:28 am

D4thincarnation wrote:So the guys is amazed by Pacquiao's ability. who can blame him.

And Pacquiao was severely weight drained at 112 at 20, an thats why he lost to Singsurat.

Pacquiao is also 5"6 and a half. How tall was Langford or Quai?

The guy doesn't know his boxing.

HaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAahaahahaHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Idiot.

by Rowley Wed May 18, 2011 1:29 am

D4 if you don't agree with him fine but to say a guy like Adam Pollack does not know what he is talking about or even more ridiculously does not know his history is beyond nonsense. Adam Pollack has forgotten more about the sport and particularly the history of the sport than you, me or I would hazard anyone on this forum will ever know.

I would suggest you seek out some online reviews of any of his five books about the first five heavyweight champions which are all considered definitive on their subjects before making such assertions. He is as entitled to his opinions on this matter as anyone, but to suggest his position is made from a position of ignorance makes you look downright stupid.

Should also add he is a bloody nice bloke as well.

by Scottrf Wed May 18, 2011 1:29 am

When was your last post that wasn't designed to wind D4 up about Pacquiao Dee?

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:30 am

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:There is also the two arguments that controdict each other.

Pacquiao is too good and he is using steroids, and Pacquiao is overrated, he has taking on weakened opponents and there have been many better fighters than him.

These arguments are used by the same people

http://www.boxingsocialist.com/profiles/blogs/manny-pacquiao-news-i-injected?xg_source=activity

Is the person a journalist a sports writer? No an anonymous person, who has not come forward and the story is laughable.

Only a fool would believe it.

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Wed May 18, 2011 1:30 am

Scottrf wrote:When was your last post that wasn't designed to wind D4 up about Pacquiao Dee?

When was your last post that wasn't aimed at moaning at someone?

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:37 am

rowley wrote:D4 if you don't agree with him fine but to say a guy like Adam Pollack does not know what he is talking about or even more ridiculously does not know his history is beyond nonsense. Adam Pollack has forgotten more about the sport and particularly the history of the sport than you, me or I would hazard anyone on this forum will ever know.

I would suggest you seek out some online reviews of any of his five books about the first five heavyweight champions which are all considered definitive on their subjects before making such assertions. He is as entitled to his opinions on this matter as anyone, but to suggest his position is made from a position of ignorance makes you look downright stupid.

Should also add he is a bloody nice bloke as well.

The article was very poor, got facts wrong and seemed to ignore other boxer from history that have done similar feats.

Doesn't recognise Pacquiao cutting weight and and does not acknowledge all the technical skills Pacquiao has added to his game.

And tries to make light of Pacquiao great victories at Super-batam, feather and superfeather. He destroyed some great fighters.

by Scottrf Wed May 18, 2011 1:39 am

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:
Scottrf wrote:When was your last post that wasn't designed to wind D4 up about Pacquiao Dee?
When was your last post that wasn't aimed at moaning at someone?

The post before that, and pretty much every previous post. But seriously it's all you do.

by Rowley Wed May 18, 2011 1:41 am

seemed to ignore other boxer from history that have done similar feats.
_____________________________________________________

To be fair I believe he is referring to the fact Manny appears to be getting more powerful and has improved punch resistant as he goes up the weights. Am happy to be corrected on this but I struggle to think of too many who have done this to such effect.

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:42 am

Scottrf wrote:When was your last post that wasn't designed to wind D4 up about Pacquiao Dee?

http://

www.606v2.com/spa/Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn

by Scottrf Wed May 18, 2011 1:42 am

rowley wrote:seemed to ignore other boxer from history that have done similar feats.
_____________________________________________________

To be fair I believe he is referring to the fact Manny appears to be getting more powerful and has improved punch resistant as he goes up the weights. Am happy to be corrected on this but I struggle to think of too many who have done this to such effect.

Just the other day people were arguing that Pacquiao wasn't actually that powerful at Welter.

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 1:45 am

rowley wrote:seemed to ignore other boxer from history that have done similar feats.
_____________________________________________________

To be fair I believe he is referring to the fact Manny appears to be getting more powerful and has improved punch resistant as he goes up the weights. Am happy to be corrected on this but I struggle to think of too many who have done this to such effect.

Being weight drained decreases you punch resistence.

Many fighter that move up improve there chins.

Manny alway had a great chin.

Manny has always been a huge puncher, and his technique has improved thus increasing his power.

He is also a better conditioned fighter.

by BALTIMORA Wed May 18, 2011 1:48 am

Scottrf wrote:
rowley wrote:seemed to ignore other boxer from history that have done similar feats.
_____________________________________________________

To be fair I believe he is referring to the fact Manny appears to be getting more powerful and has improved punch resistant as he goes up the weights. Am happy to be corrected on this but I struggle to think of too many who have done this to such effect.
Just the other day people were arguing that Pacquiao wasn't actually that powerful at Welter.

He hasn't knocked anyone out at welter. The argument was that he's not a one-punch KO specialist at welter, but rather overwhelms his opponents with speed and sheer volume of punches. D4 of course was arguing that Manny is the most devastating puncher since the Incredible Hulk.

I think people have their suspicions because he has moved up so many divisions in such a short time (five in four years?), and seems to have zero problems in adjusting. He's not lost his speed or his stamina, but his punches are arguably stronger and his punch resistance copes with welters just fine. Usually there's a trade-off. For EVERY OTHER fighter who has hopped weights, there HAS been a trade-off. What makes Pac-El so different? (Little Superman gag there).

by Guest Wed May 18, 2011 1:53 am

HumanWindmill wrote:The views of Adam Pollack, worldwide respected boxing

" I think a fight with Pac might very well be very boring."

Have said this a few times, meself,like.

by **HumanWindmill** Wed May 18, 2011 2:09 am

andygf wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:The views of Adam Pollack, worldwide respected boxing

" I think a fight with Pac might very well be very boring."

Have said this a few times, meself,like.

Couldn't be any worse than the Mosley debacle, andy.

by Rowley Wed May 18, 2011 2:34 am

HumanWindmill wrote:
andygf wrote:The views of Adam Pollack, worldwide respected boxing

" I think a fight with Pac might very well be very boring."

Have said this a few times, meself,like.

Couldn't be any worse than the Mosley debacle, andy.

You obviously watched a different fight to me Windy, fight of the year contender. Will stake my reputation on it

by **HumanWindmill** Wed May 18, 2011 2:35 am

Never write off a great Dorian Gray, jeff.

by huw Wed May 18, 2011 3:01 am

HumanWindmill wrote:The views of Adam Pollack, worldwide respected boxing biographer, historian and journalist :

Hmmm, he makes Manny's career sound so much better than many on here, I guess it depends upon the spin:

Oscar - Looked like a corpse going into the ring
Hatton - Shot and showed in the fight before he couldn't take a punch
Cotto - Shot
Clottey - Never any good 'a taxi driver'

The above aren't my views, just some of the things widely agreed on here and on 606.

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 3:07 am

huw wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:The views of Adam Pollack, worldwide respected boxing biographer, historian and journalist :

Hmmm, he makes Manny's career sound so much better than many on here, I guess it depends upon the spin:

Oscar - Looked like a corpse going into the ring
Hatton - Shot and showed in the fight before he couldn't take a punch
Cotto - Shot
Clottey - Never any good 'a taxi driver'

The above aren't my views, just some of the things widely agreed on here and on 606.

It is a joke, the same posters that try and discredit Pacquiao's opponents will also say he must be on PEDs

They also predicted Oscar, Hatton, Cotto would beat Pacquiao before the fight.

And that Pacquiao was ducking Mosley 7 months before Pacquiao signed to fight him, then called for the Marquez fight and when that was signed writ that fight off as well.

by BALTIMORA Wed May 18, 2011 3:08 am

Oscar was shot.

Hatton was shopworn, but not thought to be shot. However, his air of invincibility had vanished with the Mayweather loss.

Cotto wasn't shot-that was a very good win. Unfortunately Cotto WASN'T peak, and HAD lost something in the Margarito fight (other than just his '0').

Clottey...did nothing to deserve the fight other than sign with Arum. Not a terrible win I suppose, although it did seem like Clottey merely came for the cheque.

by BALTIMORA Wed May 18, 2011 3:11 am

D4thincarnation wrote:
huw wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:The views of Adam Pollack, worldwide respected boxing biographer, historian and journalist :

Hmmm, he makes Manny's career sound so much better than many on here, I guess it depends upon the spin:

Oscar - Looked like a corpse going into the ring
Hatton - Shot and showed in the fight before he couldn't take a punch
Cotto - Shot
Clottey - Never any good 'a taxi driver'

The above aren't my views, just some of the things widely agreed on here and on 606.

It is a joke, the same posters that try and discredit Pacquiao's opponents will also say he must be on PEDs

They also predicted Oscar, Hatton, Cotto would beat Pacquiao before the fight.

And that Pacquiao was ducking Mosley 7 months before Pacquiao signed to fight him, then called for the Marquez fight and when that was signed writ that fight off as well.

You really do seem to like playing the divvy, don't you? Pacquiao WAS ducking Mosley, when Roach TOLD Mosley words to the effect of "I won't let Pacquiao fight you right now because I think you're too good at this current juncture". Cue Mosley displays considerable and noticeable decline and bags himself a fight with Pacquiao.

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 3:11 am

BALTIMORA wrote:Oscar was shot.

Hatton was shopworn, but not thought to be shot. However, his air of invincibility had vanished with the Mayweather loss.

Cotto wasn't shot-that was a very good win. Unfortunately Cotto WASN'T peak, and HAD lost something in the Margarito fight (other than just his '0').

Clottey...did nothing to deserve the fight other than sign with Arum. Not a terrible win I suppose, although it did seem like Clottey merely came for the cheque.

Hatton air of invincibility laughing

by **HumanWindmill** Wed May 18, 2011 3:14 am

PACQUIAO LEAVING US UNFULFILLED WITH STRING OF MISMATCHES
by Michael Rosenthal/The Ring

LAS VEGAS -- We probably were spoiled by Manny Pacquiao’s amazing run from 2003 to 2008, when he engaged in a seven-fight series against the great Mexican trio of Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Manuel Marquez and Erik Morales.

Every fight seemed to be more exciting than the previous one as Pacquiao grew into a star.

Then came Pacquiao’s ascension to superstardom. First, he stopped David Diaz. Then, in what was deemed a mismatch in his opponent’s favor, he stopped the great Oscar De La Hoya. Then, in his most-spectacular victory, he dispatched Ricky Hatton with a single punch in the second round. And then he stopped a still-capable Miguel Cotto.

He had become a living legend.

Which is why his last two fights, his showdown with Shane Mosley on Saturday and a possible meeting with Juan Manuel Marquez are so disappointing.

Joshua Clottey? Good fighter but relatively anonymous. And the fight was horrible. Antonio Margarito? Utter mismatch that never should’ve happened. Now Mosley? The guy is pushing 40 and looked like hell in his past two fights. And possibly Marquez next? Good idea at 135 or even 140 but not at 147, which would be a disaster.

Is that any way for the No. 1 fighter in the world to behave?

I say no. I say a champion who seemed to take pride in fighting the best-possible opponents at one time is cheating the fans and himself by taking part in questionable matchups.

Of course, Pacquiao secured his legacy a long time ago. He can afford to cash in on his remarkable earning power against less-than-compelling opponents and still cruise into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

And years from now we’ll probably remember his greatest successes rather than these marginal matchups late in his career.

Still, at this moment, the fact Pacquiao’s wonderful run of one thrilling fight after another has degenerated into one dud after another is profoundly disappointing.

We shouldn’t be surprised. Michael Koncz, Pacquiao’s advisor, has said openly more than once that the primary goal of Team Pacquiao at this time is to generate as much money as possible. Promoter Bob Arum said he’s in the entertainment business, meaning competitive matchups aren’t necessarily the ultimate goal.

And Pacquiao doesn’t seem to be willing to step in and say I want to fight a live body. He has said more than once, “I leave that up to my promoter. I’m just a fighter. My job is to train hard and fight.”

All that is understandable. That doesn’t mean we have to feel good about it, though.

The choice of Clottey as his opponent on March 13 of last year is the most-defendable of the four matchups in question but there was a compelling option.

Some background to consider: Pacquiao and Co. – as well as the rest of us -- assumed all along that they would be fighting Floyd Mayweather Jr. on that date. It was only when negotiations broke off that Top Rank needed an opponent.

The most-compelling option at the time might’ve been lightweight titleholder Edwin Valero at 140 pounds, the weight at which Pacquiao held THE RING title at the time. Valero’s stunning record – 27 fights, 27 knockouts – would’ve been a tremendous selling point and the action would’ve been riveting.

Alas, Arum wasn’t interested in that fight. Instead, the first name to pop up was limited junior middleweight Yuri Foreman, who was deemed by Pacquiao to be too big even though it would’ve been a mismatch. Clottey was ultimately selected because he was coming off a close split-decision loss to Miguel Cotto and had given Antonio Margarito a tough fight a few years earlier. In other words, he was a credible opponent in the welterweight division.

He wasn’t well known but that didn’t seem to matter much; Arum simply built the fight around his star and a remarkable venue, glittering Cowboys Stadium. And it wasn’t Pacquiao’s fault that Clottey provided only token resistance in what turned out to be a boring fight.

We wanted more thrills. And had we gotten them, had Clottey actually summoned the fortitude to fight Pacquiao rather than merely survive, the Ghanaian probably would’ve been knocked out and we’d remember the fight fondly. Instead, the most-interesting aspect of the matchup ended up being a football stadium. That’s not exactly what we had come to expect from a Pacquiao fight. It should’ve been Valero.

The Margarito matchup, on Nov. 13, was almost completely indefensible.

Team Pacquiao tried again to make a megafight with Mayweather only to see talks fall apart again. Arum had Margarito in the wings just in case, though, convinced he could sell the fight. And he was right.

The fight made sense from a business standpoint. First, Pacquiao would be trying to win a title in a record eighth different weight class, 154 pounds. Second, Margarito was deemed a challenge because of his size advantage if nothing else. And, third, Margarito had been banned from boxing after he was busted with loaded wraps before his fight with Mosley and was making a grand return.

That doesn’t mean the matchup wasn’t miserable, though. Freddie Roach said it well: “Antonio Margarito is a tough guy. And tough guys don’t beat fighters like Shane and Manny Pacquiao.” In other words, Margarito was hired to be a punching bag for Pacquiao, which turned out to be the case.

Arum didn’t care. Again, he knew the fight would sell. He wouldn’t have made it otherwise. He also believed fervently that Margarito was screwed by the California State Athletic Commission, which he believes prevented the fighter from making a living with insufficient evidence. The promoter had the chance to right a wrong by giving Margarito a lucrative fight against the biggest money maker in the sport. In the end, he rewarded Margarito with his biggest-ever payday for cheating (in the opinion of most).

A better option at that time? How about unbeaten Timothy Bradley? That would never have happened because Arum wouldn’t’ allow it, saying Bradley and other fighters at his stage of development didn’t have the requisite name recognition for a big promotion (as if Clottey did). He also said he didn’t want fighters outside his stable piggy-backing on his hard work and making huge paydays.

The result was a pathetically one-sided fight that should never have happened.

Mosley?

Arum himself disparaged this matchup, dismissing Mosley as a used up fighter after his draw against Sergio Mora, before he realized it could actually happen. Then, of course, Mosley became an ideal opponent.

Again, the fight is marketable. Mosley is a well-known commodity, a decent B-side to the biggest attraction in the sport. One could even argue that he has earned the payday ($6 million guaranteed) because of his body of work.

And Mosley is a much more defendable opponent that Margarito, which isn’t saying much. I could even argue that we shouldn’t read too much into Mosley’s loss to Mayweather and draw with Mora, fights against opponents reluctant to engage Mosley.

But there is a reason the MGM has made Mosley a 6½ underdog, which is the casino’s way of saying he has only a small chance of winning the fight. They know what they’re doing. Mosley is too old to compete with a monster like Pacquiao.

Better options?

Arum mentioned Andre Berto as a possibility but then dismissed him for a familiar reason – lack of name recognition. Berto has since lost to Victor Ortiz but, at the time, he would’ve been a better opponent than Mosley because his then-perfect record and youth.

Marquez also would’ve been a better option on that and the previous dates but only at 140 or below. He and Pacquiao engaged in two close, controversial fights, a draw and a victory for Pacquiao. A third fight makes perfect sense at the right weight.

Instead, we’re stuck with this fight. Mosley might surprise us by putting up a good fight or score what would be a significant upset. More likely Pacquiao will dominate him over 12 rounds and win a one-sided decision, his third in a row.

And, finally, there is the possibility of Pacquiao fighting Marquez in November. Again, it’s a great idea … at 140 or below. The problem is that Roach has said Pacquiao will fight only at 147 pounds.

We’ve already seen what Marquez looks like in that division. Marquez, a natural 135 pounder at most, bulked up to 142 for his fight against Mayweather and was so slow that looked as if his feet were in quick sand. The result: A near-shutout loss.

The only way Marquez makes that a competitive fight is to come in at his natural weight and take his chances, which doesn’t seem likely. Fighters don’t use common sense.

The probable result? A fourth consecutive fight in which Pacquiao is matched against an unworthy opponent.

(Sigh.)

Alas, there is hope. Pacquiao probably will fight several more times before he retires. And Team Pacquiao could yet choose to face opponents who belong in the ring with him even if current evidence suggests they won’t.

Amir Khan? Awkward because Roach trains both fighters but fascinating. Bradley? Still works, particularly because he’s having trouble making a deal to fight Khan. Zab Judah? Works for me. And how about Ortiz if Arum can find a way to work with Golden Boy Promotions? The new welterweight titleholder made an enormous statement against Berto.

My fingers are crossed.

link to article -http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/167177-pacquiao-leaving-us-unfulfilled-with-string-of-mismatches

by BALTIMORA Wed May 18, 2011 3:14 am

D4thincarnation wrote:
BALTIMORA wrote:Oscar was shot.

Hatton was shopworn, but not thought to be shot. However, his air of invincibility had vanished with the Mayweather loss.

Cotto wasn't shot-that was a very good win. Unfortunately Cotto WASN'T peak, and HAD lost something in the Margarito fight (other than just his '0').

Clottey...did nothing to deserve the fight other than sign with Arum. Not a terrible win I suppose, although it did seem like Clottey merely came for the cheque.

Hatton air of invincibility

Do I have to explain that for you in large print, with small words?

by D4thincarnation Wed May 18, 2011 3:18 am

It clear that these rumours about Pacquiao have been fabricated to to smear him, so Mayweather can somehow has a valid reason for ducking and boost Floyd's standing too.

When you such stories that are flying around like they have been, it make it clear how desperate some people are to try and discredit Pacquiao's great achievements

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