Japanese GP Thread - Race/Qualifying & Practice Spoilers ahead - Sponsors by Rocky's Sushi Recipe

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

The Honda-owned venue is a favourite amongst drivers and fans alike and you can expect to see the grandstands packed from sunrise to sunset despite the lack of a Japanese driver for the first time since 2001.

Track: Suzuka International Racing Course. Permanent circuit.

Race start time: 7am UK time Sunday (3pm local).

Laps: 53.

Track length: 5.807 km.

Tyre allocation: Medium (white) and hard (orange).

DRS Zones: One - on the pit straight.

Driver steward: Emanuele Pirro.

Lap record: Kimi Raikkonen - 1:31.540 - (McLaren; 2005).

2012 pole: Sebastian Vettel - 1:30.839 (Red Bull).

The Japanese Grand Prix has been won by Sebastian Vettel for three of the last four years, with Jenson Button's 2011 victory the only blemish on the German's record since the race returned to Suzuka after two years at Fuji.

Ferrari dominated the race at the start of the century with five successive victories, but the last of those came from Michael Schumacher in 2004 - a run Fernando Alonso desperately needs to put to an end this weekend to keep his slim title hopes alive.

2012 result: 1. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2. Felipe Massa (Ferrari); 3. Kamui Kobayashi (Sauber); 4. Jenson Button (McLaren); 5. Lewis Hamilton (McLaren); 6. Kimi Raikkonen (Lotus); 7. Nico Hulkenberg (Force India); 8. Pastor Maldonado (Williams); 9. Mark Webber (Red Bull); 10. Daniel Ricciardo (Toro Rosso).

Last five winners at Suzuka: 2012: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2011: Jenson Button (McLaren); 2010: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2009: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2006: Fernando Alonso (Renault).

Pirelli will bring the two hardest compounds in their range - the white-banded medium tyres and the orange-marked mediums.

They say this is to "soak up the high-energy demands of rapid corners such as 130R and Spoon". This is a more conservative choice than in 2012 when the soft compound was coupled with the hard, although this year's rubber is a step softer than last year's equivalent.

Source: Sky Sports

[GSC]

I'm not trying to convince over the Internet (impossible task)

Merely stating eeasons

[Trebs]

Force India and Ferrari have both been screwed over by the tyre changes.

I think Hulkenburg will stay at Sauber though as he's first choice, and Massa will get the seat at Lotus. His experience alongside Grosjean, I can see that being a great team dynamic.

[bogbrush]

The tyre rule that screwed anyone over is the one where they last no time. That done teams hung on early this season because they chewed them up a bit slower just meant they benefitted from a handicap system.

The tyres need to be further improved and longer lasting.

[GSC]

They need to last longer but not forever. Need to find a balance

[bogbrush]

There'll always be a benefit from fresh tyres.

[GSC]

These tyres are better than the previous ones which lasted forever and everyone did a 1 stop on though. Need to allow room for strategy and drivers who look after their tyres better

[Trebs]

Bit of a radical idea, but what if:

All tyre compounds were brought to all circuits, and all of the drivers got two of each, i.e. Super-Soft, Soft, Medium and Hard. With two compounds having to be used in the race.

So, those who were good on their tyres could try Super softs, whereas the tyre chewers would go for harder compounds, but require more stopping. Lots of different strategy ideas.

[GSC]

You'd probably find most teams using the same compound

Super softs would probably last half a lap round spa

[GSC]

I think Pirelli will just produce a more durable compound. Though I'd imagine there'll be less strain on the tyres next seasom

[CaledonianCraig]

In an ideal world next year Hulkenberg would be driving for Lotus. His drives this year merit a drive in a more competitive car and that isn't Force India. If Lotus go for Massa then I reckon they'll regret it. He is washed up as a force in F1 and has been since his accident - he reminds me a lot of Barrichello in his twilight years.

[Guest]

Agree with Caledonian, whatever strategy RB chose they`d won. The first stint they were saving tyres from lap 6, once again denying us their true potential. When it came to unleashing their speed, it was frightening. Vettel didn't drive that well, couple of near off`s, multiple lock ups, as Brundle said it was scruffy....and he was still comfortable in winning.

Hulkenberg has apparently signed according to Brundle, probably with Lotus. He's in the know, also interesting to hear him talking about the drivers stating they are hating this conservation of tyres on the plane from korea. Will be even worse next year when you throw in even more stringent fuel conservation. Massa for Lotus? He had a speeding drive thru today....amateurs do that.

Vettel a four time champ, got to congratulate him. Just hope things improve next season because its pretty dull currently.

[SteveG]

Disappointing end to a forgettable race. A couple of things:
Why was Webber switched to a 3 stop when he was taking time off his own time ie WASNT slowing down?? And why was there such a traction deficit when Webber was stuck behind Groj - Vettel was right on Groj's gearbox thru the final chicane as was Webber, and yet not only did Vettel have the traction to stay with Groj down the straight, he was half past him before opening his flap!!

[Fernando]

Disappointing end to a forgettable race. A couple of things:
Why was Webber switched to a 3 stop when he was taking time off his own time ie WASNT slowing down?? And why was there such a traction deficit when Webber was stuck behind Groj - Vettel was right on Groj's gearbox thru the final chicane as was Webber, and yet not only did Vettel have the traction to stay with Groj down the straight, he was half past him before opening his flap!!

You really need to listen to the commentary more often Steve, Webber was running a skinner wing then Vettel for straight line pace. Vettel has the normal one which gave him more grip through S1 and out of corners.

[SteveG]

Disappointing end to a forgettable race. A couple of things:
Why was Webber switched to a 3 stop when he was taking time off his own time ie WASNT slowing down?? And why was there such a traction deficit when Webber was stuck behind Groj - Vettel was right on Groj's gearbox thru the final chicane as was Webber, and yet not only did Vettel have the traction to stay with Groj down the straight, he was half past him before opening his flap!!

You really need to listen to the commentary more often Steve, Webber was running a skinner wing then Vettel for straight line pace. Vettel has the normal one which gave him more grip through S1 and out of corners.

I know Webber was running with less wing but didnt think that it would give such a deficit in traction out of the corner as it did - and it didn't seem to make him any faster on the straight either - the so called 'slower in a straight line' Vettel was past Groj before even opening his flap - and yet Webber - running on options and lapping faster than his teammate couldn't get near.

[CaledonianCraig]

I'd put it down to three reasons SteveG.

1. Vettel is just a faster driver than Webber.

2. This Red Bull was built more to suit Vettel's strengths than Webber's.

3. Vettel naturally looks after his tyres better than Webber.

[liverbnz]

Webber is very poor at looking after his tyres, probably the worst from the front half of the grid so it was no surprise he had to go for a 3 stopper. He never seems able to do a few extra laps to give himself any kind of advantage and therefore ends up on the backfoot early on in a race.

Vettel also always has a knack of getting past dirvers that he needs to, especially after a pit stop. Webber, whilst very good at overtaking, will often get stuck when he least needs it.

[Guest]

Everyone knew Webber was awful at tyre conservation, heard people talking about RB intentionally putting him on the three-stop yesterday, so that Vettel could jump him. Embarrassing. I've said it for years, Webber is a good guy but an average driver. He isn't suited to F1 & the decision to quit the sport, is basically down to the fact he hates the direction F1 is heading, doesn't like conservation or having to drive the car to the limit of the tyres condition, instead of the car or driver's ability. Throw in the weight issue next year with the integrated KERS unit & there was no room for Mark, especially in a tightly-packed aerodynamically superior package as the RB.

The other teams are focused on next year. Vettel in theory should win every remaining race left. There are no upgrade packages coming to any teams now & the RB has the superior package at any type of circuit or characteristic. Grosjean was the only driver, outside of the RB duo, that was in the actual race. RB were biding their time, telling both drivers to remain two seconds behind the man in front & holding back. When it came to crunch time, Vettel just basically cruised past Grosjean like he wasn't there, Mark eventually got past but at the end of the day it just showed the huge gulf in class between the RB & the rest.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Vettel achieve, what is it, 13 race wins this season?

[CaledonianCraig]

I can't disagree with much of that John.

Red Bull are miles ahead of the opposition in quali-pace/race pace/aerodynamics package and the only person in a position to deny Vettel the title was Webber and as you say John he is not the best driver in F1 by a long chalk to take the fight to Vettel hence the ease of which Seb has won his fourth world title.

[GSC]

Wonder if Grosjeans form changed the dynamic of Lotus' Hulkenburg talks

[Sponsored content]