The V2 Wrestling Podcast: Bound for Failure, a Big Show, Hunting Dwarves, The Rhodes Family

Welcome to another exciting edition of the v2 Wrestling Podcast!

This week's show starts with excerpts of Adam's interview earlier in the week with Bully Ray and AJ Styles ahead of their TNA World Championship match at Bound For Glory.

Chris, Gavin, Paul and Rich then discuss the bizarre build up to the event itself, and scratch their collective heads about a number of issues.

It's then on to WWE, and the newly formed Legion of Gloom, Gav and Paul, are this week counterbalanced by Chris, who still sees hope in the Power Trip storyline, while Rich shows hints of turning to the darkside. Battleground is dissected, and confessions are made. Find out which member of the podcast thinks Christianity is "mental", and who enjoys a spot of dwarf hunting.

We finish with a discussion about the Rhodes family, hot off their excellent match on Sunday night. Does Dusty's place in history extend beyond the polka dots, could Goldust have been a main eventer, and will Cody be the next big star of the industry?

Find out only in this week's v2 Wrestling Podcast!

http://v2wrestling.podomatic.com/entry/2013-10-10T13_13_37-07_00

Right Wilkerson, I'm calling you out, you've often said that Guerrero's not as good as I make him out to be and your entitled to your opinion, but to me you've never really justified it, I want you to make a case for yourself that extends beyond 'he's overrated because he died', I'm not saying Guerrero is the best ever, he's probably one of my all time favourites but I'd probably have him around the 8-15 mark on an atg list.

The man has lists and lists of classic matches to his name, from 5* matches in AAA (I've seen the match, it was enjoyable but I'm not a massive lucha fan so I'll let Dave Meltzer do the leg work for me there), to his work in Japan as Black Tiger II (a gimmick he was given by Japan as they felt his ring work was worthy of matching up to the standard of the pedigree of Rollerball Rocco, playing off the nemesis of Japanese ATG's like the original Tiger Mask and Mitsuharu Misawa) where he had classic matches, with Benoit (at the Super J Cup and the BOSJ 96 spring to mind), The Great Sasuke and Jushin Liger (again BOTSJ 96, a tour de force performance where he won the whole thing), moving on to ECW, where a notoriously harsh company and crowd applauded him out of the building while he a Malenko engaged in a technical masterclass before leaving for WCW, moving on to WCW, we see the first of his character work, an entertaining sleazy heel which he played well, good matches a plenty in the stacked cruiserweight division, most notably his classic against Mysterio at Halloween Havoc 91, a match that combined classic storytelling with breathtaking manoeuvres, his defection to the WWF we see the lighter side of Guerrero, he takes his self serious persona and throws his all into making his 'mamacita' storyline with Chyna, his momentum disrupted by drug incidents (a black mark against him I'll admit) he returns to the independent circuit where a man no more self assured in CM Punk stated he thought he was a great wrestler until he got in the ring with Guerrero, back to WWE, again another iffy gimmick, taken from the same mould as Cryme Tyme, again Eddie made it work, his Los Guerreros tag team had great matches with Benoit & Angle and Mysterio & Edge in what was probably the last great era of tag wrestling in WWE IMO, a singles run with the US title (his win over Benoit being a highlight from memory, again the great wrestling and storytelling I remember Guerrero for, getting his character over in the most entertaining fashion as he capitalised on an outside attack on Benoit for the win), moving on the his main event run, pre his match against Lesnar, while Eddie was always comfortable on the stick, his 'Addict' promo will go down as his defining promo for me, a total babyface against the monster, the actual match a storytelling masterclass of David vs Goliath, and you cannot deny when Eddie gets the pin, that man was over in a big way, in a way not replicated IMO till Bryan nearly 10 years later, same for his match against Angle, retains the WWE title, great match, super over, Guerrero by his own admission couldn't handle the pressure of being champion (another black mark perhaps but refreshingly honest) his feud against JBL entertaining, including his amazing crimson mask from Judgement Day, moving down a gear, an entertaining tag team with Mysterio (match against RVD & Booker T on new years eve smackdown best I can remember from memory, but a weekly highlight), this turns to a friendly feud with Mysterio producing some good wrestling, telling the story of two guys who know each other inside out, then for me the last great work of Guerrero's career, his heel turn in 06, while I didn't particularly like the whole 'Custody of Dominic' storyline that played out, it was testament to Eddies ability that one of the most beloved babyfaces in wrestling, turned himself into such a despicable heel, his redemption storyline with Batista looked to be going ok as well but sadly we'll never know how that'll play out, but it did produce one of the better matches Batista had at a point where he wasn't really having them with anyone.

Anyways sorry if I went on a bit there, but I wanted to give you details of what I think of Guerrero's career, the highlights, I'm a self confessed fan but to me the guy had amazing matches all over the world, he told great stories and was a fine technician, he was a very good promo, he could play face and heel, he took gimmicks that treaded borderlines of racism and the face/heel divide and made them work by putting his all into them and at one point was arguably the most over man in the biggest wrestling promotion in the world.

Anyways that's my case for Guerrero, I look forward to a reply that expands on the stock rhetoric, 'he's overrated because he died'


And while we're at it Big E's crap...



Feedback  xxx

Oh and great show as usual guys,

Hero my missus is 4'11 and a half (she won't let me forget the half), want me to send her down to scare your wife?

I've actually answered this question both vocally on the podcast and on here. However, his own fans generally hide behind the stock rhetoric they feel is given.

You're a big fan, I have no problem with that, and I'm not going to question Japanese work but to me it's an afterthought. It's almost a different industry.

I don't think his character work was anything that deserves to be bestowed as great. If I think of some of the gimmicks wwe have given people and were giving people at the time, then Guerrero got lucky. They were open and executable.

In today's wwe I don't think he'd main event. In the era he started in briefly I don't think he'd main event. I don't even think he'd main event in the dip between Hogan's run and the attitude era (broadly defined).

I would have Big Show ahead of him in my ranking list of wrestlers. I am a fan of the sports entertainment product. Pure wrestling is great, but it won't make me instantly like someone. There's more reasons but I've got to go to work

House, you need to realise that Chris isn't interested in trivial things like facts and historical evidence!

Listening to part 1, I can see why I am the most important person on the podcast.

As a TNA fan I have slated the product recently (havent looked at last nights spoilers yet so hope this doesnt come back to bite me on the @rse!) but some of the things commented on were hypocritically wrong.

Firstly, the post show match. I hate it. But its not like WWE havent done it.

I get that Sandow vs Ziggler is to get people pumped up and I am not going to use that as an example (although I do think that the TNA 4 way will be a good way to pump up the crowd as there are a lot of fan favourites - whether they are booing or cheering).

However, there have been quite a few other matches from WWE recently like this - I think Dean Ambrose faced someone who one a preshow match (kofi maybe). Theres been a Diva battle royal. I think there was one that Santino one too. So its hardly a TNA only thing and I would credit them with the idea if they had a stronger card all round (which they dont which is why its not a great idea this time).

it also leads me on to point two which is that it was blatantly obvious that no one watched Impact last week!

Bad Influence are in the match and will likely leave BFG as tag champs IMO.

The Sting vs Magnus criticism whilst fully justified also showed a non watch of the show. Albeit rubbish, it was actually explained (if to little crowd reaction).

Magnus playing the sulky whiny teen said he couldnt even beat EGO blah blah blah. He was close to having a dfining moment by winning BFG or beating EGO in one night. Sting had his moments, beating Flair at PPVs (nope me either). Thats when Sting said "well here is your chance kid - you can face me for your defining match". Not great and out of nowhere but at least it was explained.

The poster discussion was finally put to bed - you cant advertise the winner of BFG series before it finishes on the poster!

Everything else was spot on though and although you were hard on TNA I still very much enjoyed the chat. And Chris' Chewbacca impression half way through.

I explained the reasoning behind the Magnus Sting match on the podcast, we didn't spend long discussing it though. Probably the same amount of time TNA spent deciding their BFG card.

I didn't realise Bad Influence were in the pre-show match, but the fact they are makes it even worse. I assumed it was a three way and there was no point in advertising Parks & Young, or Bro-Mans, or the other team as nobody cares about them.

Bad Influence on the other hand could (and should) have had a feud with Storm & Gunner which would almsot certainly have been entertaining.

WWE recently had a pre-show match to determine the tag team challengers which was a bad idea, but at least they weren't wasting one of the most entertaining things on the roster! That is a criticism of WWE that they don't have a team like Bad Influence that people enjoy, but it is equally bad (if not worse) to waste a team like that when you have them!

We were hard on TNA, but I don't see how you can't be if your not just paying lip service them. I listed positives, but even most of those were ridiculous. You shouldn't have to praise a company for having their world champion and number one contender facing off 2 weeks before BFG - but I felt it necessary given that it hadn't happened yet!

To be fair E, my comment was aimed at the other 3 naysayers (Gav, Rich and Chewie)

crippledtart wrote:House, you need to realise that Chris isn't interested in trivial things like facts and historical evidence!

Come on then, history boy, tell me why he's the best Mexican since the guy who invented Doritos? Considering your facts and evidence seem only to be mustered selectively, depending on which insect you didn't notice on your morning salad has since lodged himself firmly in your bum!

Is it Triple H's fault he's dead?

I dont think i even bothered to pretend i had watched tna!

I can't agree with you on the sting/Magnus thing, it still stinks. I still don't see why Sting wants to win.

And I'm not saying wwe have always done pre-shows right, I've slated them before, but that tag match is the worst of the bunch. My real concern is the strength of the tag division, something that was advertised to me as a positive when first watching TNA. And that's even as someone who quite likes Robbie E.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I dont think i even bothered to pretend i had watched tna!

I can't agree with you on the sting/Magnus thing, it still stinks. I still don't see why Sting wants to win.

And I'm not saying wwe have always done pre-shows right, I've slated them before, but that tag match is the worst of the bunch. My real concern is the strength of the tag division, something that was advertised to me as a positive when first watching TNA. And that's even as someone who quite likes Robbie E.

I agree with all of that!

I wasnt defending the match just that it was explained! The match makes no sense from Stings point of view other than he is being nice to his friend and giving him a chance to beat him. In fact its rpetty egotistical of the stong character to say that by beating him, its an iconic moment for magnus, when it so obviously isnt.

As for the selling point of TNA, the tag division WAS great but its not anymore. However, it doesnt meant that it cant be again very quickly.

BroMans could be a great tag team if they were given air time. Bad Influence is still the best tag team out there. Even Chavo and Hernandez are okay as a tag team.

Bring back Shelley to reform the MCMG and its a great division again. The problem is the air time.

As a rule, if I was booking TNA, I would make sure that every show had at least one X Division match, 1 knockout match and 1 tag match without fail. That simply isnt happening at the moment.

You asked me to defend TNA on the podcast - I cant defend the reasons being any good but they have been explained a little.

I don’t think anyone can begrudge Guerrero his run at the top. He earned it and deserved it but I don’t think he’s either overrated or underrated to be honest, for me he’s in the same kind of bracket as a Jeff Hardy or Christian level of champion. You know, they worked hard to get to the top and were better world champions than your Miz’s or Sheamus’ but not as good as your Kurt Angle’s or Chris Jericho’s. I’m not comparing Guerrero’s technical ability to that of Hardy of Christian however, I don’t doubt that Guerrero was a better pure wrestler than these two but in WWE terms and in terms of drawing power and popularity I think it’s fair to put them in the same bracket. The thing with Eddie though for me is that when I think of him I remember him for his premature death not for his in ring work. Whereas if I think of say Heath Ledger I remember him for being awesome as The Joker, not for his premature death.

Mr H wrote:I don’t think anyone can begrudge Guerrero his run at the top. He earned it and deserved it but I don’t think he’s either overrated or underrated to be honest, for me he’s in the same kind of bracket as a Jeff Hardy or Christian level of champion. You know, they worked hard to get to the top and were better world champions than your Miz’s or Sheamus’ but not as good as your Kurt Angle’s or Chris Jericho’s. I’m not comparing Guerrero’s technical ability to that of Hardy of Christian however, I don’t doubt that Guerrero was a better pure wrestler than these two but in WWE terms and in terms of drawing power and popularity I think it’s fair to put them in the same bracket. The thing with Eddie though for me is that when I think of him I remember him for his premature death not for his in ring work. Whereas if I think of say Heath Ledger I remember him for being awesome as The Joker, not for his premature death.

Pretty much agree with that word for word. Like I've said, I don't dislike Guerrero, but i personally feel hes very much overrated by some.

Adam D wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I dont think i even bothered to pretend i had watched tna!

I can't agree with you on the sting/Magnus thing, it still stinks. I still don't see why Sting wants to win.

And I'm not saying wwe have always done pre-shows right, I've slated them before, but that tag match is the worst of the bunch. My real concern is the strength of the tag division, something that was advertised to me as a positive when first watching TNA. And that's even as someone who quite likes Robbie E.

I agree with all of that!

I wasnt defending the match just that it was explained! The match makes no sense from Stings point of view other than he is being nice to his friend and giving him a chance to beat him. In fact its rpetty egotistical of the stong character to say that by beating him, its an iconic moment for magnus, when it so obviously isnt.

As for the selling point of TNA, the tag division WAS great but its not anymore. However, it doesnt meant that it cant be again very quickly.

BroMans could be a great tag team if they were given air time. Bad Influence is still the best tag team out there. Even Chavo and Hernandez are okay as a tag team.

Bring back Shelley to reform the MCMG and its a great division again. The problem is the air time.

As a rule, if I was booking TNA, I would make sure that every show had at least one X Division match, 1 knockout match and 1 tag match without fail. That simply isnt happening at the moment.

You asked me to defend TNA on the podcast - I cant defend the reasons being any good but they have been explained a little.

Except for the part about Chavo that's all fair. Won't get complaints from me on that.

crippledtart wrote:House, you need to realise that Chris isn't interested in trivial things like facts and historical evidence!

Gavin, on the wwe site they mention the dingdongs as one the greatest masked teams!

Can't add much to this, other than to comment on the Sting / Magnus match.

Think it would have worked better if The Icon had been built up to be TNA's equivalent of The Undertaker...then beating him would have real significance.

As it is, Sting has been in and out of the ring (temporary GM) and has probably lost more matches than he's won, plus many of the matches he's taken part in have been tag team pairings of convenience, to help out various members of the roster.

He's had no opportunity to (re)build his legendary status, so Magnus will just be facing someone who used to be great. I'm sure the fans will love it, but it won't make me think any of more of Magnus, than his BFG run did.

But then thats a common problem throughout the TNA roster - no-one has a chance to really build their rep and status. The last time that happened was when Bobby Roode had his run as champion.