Brawn To Leave Mercedes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24725406

Pretty sad at this. He has a proven track record in F1 and so Mercedes, in my opinion, are taking a huge risk. Besides wasn't the team lifted from obscurity by him? Mercedes have erred in my opinion.

I think they'll end up regretting it too...though I so hope they don't after Hamilton's decision to move there.

Looks like they weren't able to offer him a role that suited him, after all.

Would dearly love to see McLaren snap him up now.

Disaster for Mercedes, complete disaster. Quite simply the best team principal in the sport.

The question now is where Brawn will go. Rumours were linking him with moving to work with Honda as they re-enter F1 with engines for next year. I cannot see that happening as it isn't full blown involvement with an F1cteam which he seems he has his heart set on plus when he worked with Honda before it was not a relationship he was too enamoured with. He has also been linked with a move to McLaren but I can't see that coming off as he is too big for that team who have their own men there so I couldn't see that working. Williams have also been linked but that looks a no no as both parties have shown little enthusiasm for that link up.

I wonder whether he could move to a struggling team such as Marussia or Caterham and look to transform them as he did rescuing the Honda team and turning them into title winners as Brawn. Or perhaps try bringing a new team up from scratch.

bogbrush wrote:Disaster for Mercedes, complete disaster. Quite simply the best team principal in the sport.

Nonsense. Brawns had his chance at Mercedes & they have a host of technical staff their, who are able to do a fine job. Yeah, he`s an experienced head with a great C.V but times change. Hardly a disaster.

To be fair John, Brawn in effect created that team. If you remember it was set to leave F1 (the old Honda team) and Brawn stepped in to save it and create the phemonenally short-term successful Brawn team and then Mercedes muscled in. I wonder if Ross now regrets Mercedes taking over as they have now discarded him like a smelly sock. I do wish Mercedes well in their quest to reach the top but this is a big error in my opinion.

Disaster, big error???? Mercedes should just not bother turning up the next year. Brawn had one good year with the double diffuser with button, since then its been woeful up to this year, only when other technical staff came in to the fold. Throw in paddy Lowe n you can see why brawn is leaving. I even question his desire to stay in the sport, think he's lost the passion. Its hardly Armageddon for Mercedes but judging by your comments, you would think otherwise.

Could you please relate to me the qualifications and experience of the person taking over? No experience as Team Principal at all so Mercedes are taking a leap into the dark. Heck even Niki Lauda felt Brawn should have been kept on.

Niki Lauda could of taken Brawn for a three hour late night hotel room discussion to keep him on but didn't. Shows me how much they wanted to keep him. You can argue for days the reasons to keep Brawn but the team is going in a particular direction n Brawn is not a fit. There is a host of staff their who are knowledgeable, experienced n fully qualified to lead that team. You make it out as if Brawn has the same impact at Mercedes as Newey does at RB. I don't think so. Time to move on but to say Mercedes are now in a moment of disaster is embarrassing.

John I am not sure who you are saying is making it out to be a disaster - not me. I have said, in my opinion, they have made an error and may regret it as well. And actually there isn't another experienced Team Principal waiting to take over at Mercedes. It will be someone new to the post which is a gamble straight away as Stefano Dominicalli at Ferrari proves.

My biggest problem with all of this is something Schumi once said when asked about the key to his success - "its about forging relationships" he replied referring to himself and Brawn. Vettel has it with Horner and I was hoping for similar chemistry with Hamilton and Brawn.

Just don't understand when Merc say that the role of team principle is obsolete when all the top teams still operate with one. I like Nico but the only way Hamilton can take the fight to Vettel is to have most of the focus on him as it is at Red Bull and I fear that will be more difficult if Merc - like Mclaren - are about to embark down the soulless corporate route.

What bugs me is that when Ross Brawn was totally in command when the team was Brawn they excelled. Mercedes then came onboard and have no doubt they have taken over somewhat and the team's performance level has dropped. I would say that is more to do with them not letting Brawn get on with his job fully and so things have gone stale. Okay Mercedes want to do it their way but what is their way? After all, as a fully fledged team in F1, they know nothing compared to Brawn who has been in the sport for three decades.

CaledonianCraig wrote:What bugs me is that when Ross Brawn was totally in command when the team was Brawn they excelled. Mercedes then came onboard and have no doubt they have taken over somewhat and the team's performance level has dropped. I would say that is more to do with them not letting Brawn get on with his job fully and so things have gone stale. Okay Mercedes want to do it their way but what is their way? After all, as a fully fledged team in F1, they know nothing compared to Brawn who has been in the sport for three decades.

In fairness, Brawn F1 was a 1-season wonder, where they benefitted from the double-diffuser for the first half of the season, before Red Bull and Ferrari began catching them up. We'll never know if they would have been able to defend their titles in 2010. I'd like to think so, but RB were definintely in the ascendancy that season, so it would've been very tough.

I would agree that Mercedes coming in seemed to mess things up...big influx of new staff, leading to organisational and communication issues probably. That said, they do seem to have made progress over the last few years, whether because of Brawn's influence, or otherwise. I just hope they've either figured enough out for themselves, or learned enough from Ross, to be able to continue to progress. Guess we'll know next season... I don't see his departure as being a massive loss for them...for Hamilton's sake I certainly hope not.

I hope he chooses to stay in the sport for a few more years at least. McLaren have been on a major team rebuild and given how poor their car development has been recently, I reckon they could do worse than hand Whitmarsh his P45 and recruit Brawn in his place. Or if he fancies a really big challange, I'd like to see him apply his skills to Caterham or Marussia.

The thing is though he was Team Principal of Brawn and team saviour and it was his insight to get in a designer that innovated enough to do the double-diffuser that got the team the rich rewards that year. Since Mercedes took over they have regressed from the heady days of Brawn and I'd have to put that down to interference and meddling and changing staff from Mercedes. Like I said earlier they are ditching an experienced Team Principal with a proven track record and replacing him with someone with no experience in that role. In my eyes that is a risk.

I will agree with that. He seemed to really enjoy being his own boss, after years of working for other teams and I've no doubt his influence did get watered down when Mercedes took over.

Letting RB go is defninitely a risk, but a calculated one, as they've brought people in like Paddy Lowe, who's also an old hand at F1. Like I said, I just hope it pays off and that Ross is taken on by another team who will give him free rein to operate the way he likes to.

Agreed dyrewolfe. Like you said earlier I'd either like to see Brawn head to Marussia or Caterham and raise them up the grid. Or perhaps see him starting a new team if he can get financial backing and see how far he can take them.

John wrote:Disaster, big error???? Mercedes should just not bother turning up the next year. Brawn had one good year with the double diffuser with button, since then its been woeful up to this year, only when other technical staff came in to the fold. Throw in paddy Lowe n you can see why brawn is leaving. I even question his desire to stay in the sport, think he's lost the passion. Its hardly Armageddon for Mercedes but judging by your comments, you would think otherwise.

Didn't he used to wear a red suit? I'm sure he won more than the one title with Button but you must be right.

The guy has accomplishments. More than most.

bogbrush wrote:

John wrote:Disaster, big error???? Mercedes should just not bother turning up the next year. Brawn had one good year with the double diffuser with button, since then its been woeful up to this year, only when other technical staff came in to the fold. Throw in paddy Lowe n you can see why brawn is leaving. I even question his desire to stay in the sport, think he's lost the passion. Its hardly Armageddon for Mercedes but judging by your comments, you would think otherwise.

Didn't he used to wear a red suit? I'm sure he won more than the one title with Button but you must be right.

The guy has accomplishments. More than most.

Also had a hand in the Bennetton success story as well. Is it coincidence that Ferrari's success dried up when Brawn left the team at the end of 2006? Make your own mind up.

Agree with John on this one. It's been 1 step forward 2 back for Merc for Brawn's tenure and his appetite was in question this past year. It doesnt matter a damn what he's done previously, fact is he is not doing it now. Hopefully with a fresh approach it will help Merc be more competitive on a consistent basis.

Or we could say since Mercedes got fully involved things have gone backwards. Brawn GP under Brawn's full guidance won the driver and constructor title on a minimal budget but things have soured since Mercedes took over. Remember Mercedes have not run a team in F1 since the heady days of the 'Silver Arrows' when teddy boys and Muffin the Mule was prevaillent.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Or we could say since Mercedes got fully involved things have gone backwards. Brawn GP under Brawn's full guidance won the driver and constructor title on a minimal budget but things have soured since Mercedes took over. Remember Mercedes have not run a team in F1 since the heady days of the 'Silver Arrows' when teddy boys and Muffin the Mule was prevaillent.

 
You could easily say things went downhill once other teams added and perfected the rear diffuser. Brawn's form in the 2nd half of that title winning season was similar to how Merc have continued since - in fact on having another look it was much worse.

But was it not his insight that got that innovative designer onboard? Was it not his decision to implement the design into the car (a master stroke that)? A master stroke that gave his team two titles. Mercedes are a big corporation with a Frank Sinatra outlook where they want things done their way and that has not had the same impact at all.

Yes it was, and he should be applauded for that but that was 4 years ago.

Whoever is at fault, and we can never be sure given what we are party to, the Brawn/Mercedes partnership is not working, so the split is the right decision - if that is indeed what's happening (only speculation at this point).

And bear in mind I do hope it works out for Mercedes but I just feel this is an error in judgement but hopefully I am proven wrong.

Agree liverbnz. Its not worked the partnership, therefore the decision had to be made. Not sure why people keep hanging onto past successes. The sport moves on, new regs, new personnel, new everything. If brawn himself didn't want to be their, why would I as a Mercedes n Hamilton fan want him their? If he's not happy or committed, he needs to leave n the team move on. As I said, to think Mercedes don't have a plan or well respected, technically gifted replacements at hand would be stupid. I have no worries at all & I'm usually the first to get worried or speak out believe me.

Seems to be the general consensus that Merc have somehow been a hinderance to Brawn. Whether that was the case early doors I don't know - but since Merc decided to take it all seriously and ramp up the budget and give Brawn the bodies that were needed they immediately made giant strides and are currently looking good for 2nd in the WCC - an incredible turnaround from last year. So based on that I'd say Brawn will be a loss.

John wrote:Agree liverbnz. Its not worked the partnership, therefore the decision had to be made. Not sure why people keep hanging onto past successes. The sport moves on, new regs, new personnel, new everything. If brawn himself didn't want to be their, why would I as a Mercedes n Hamilton fan want him their? If he's not happy or committed, he needs to leave n the team move on. As I said, to think Mercedes don't have a plan or well respected, technically gifted replacements at hand would be stupid. I have no worries at all & I'm usually the first to get worried or speak out believe me.

But you are making a mistake in thinking because Mercedes is a massive car company they know what they are doing in F1. A similar mistake made by Honda and Toyota if memory serves. Just because they have big aspirations and funds does not guarantee success. Look at the current situation - a fizzy drinks company-run team is running rings around Ferrari and Mercedes.

And Ferrari have been constantly involved in F1, unlike Mercedes, who had a 50-odd year hiatus.

Just goes to show the sport is no respecter of pedigree or heritage. Its all about what you can do in the here and now. Honda threw ridiculous amounts of money into their team (enough to employ over 700 people - reduced to about half that when Brawn took over) and got basically nowhere.

That said, I refuse to believe a guy who was instrumental in winning titles at 3 different teams over nearly 20 years, has nothing left to offer the sport, especially new teams like Marussia or Caterham, or fallen giants such as Williams or McLaren. If he still has the desire to be involved in F1, he'd be a huge asset to any team.

Brawn seen in talks in the Ferrari garage with Stefano Domenicali about him joining apparently. Stefano would not refute the claim & then stated that he would move to another role within the team to accomodate Brawn, if it were for the best interest of the team.

Wow! If true that could signal a change in Ferrari's fortunes.

Would be interesting to see if he could do for Alonso what he did for Schumacher.

Also a very bold and humble statement from Domenicali - but then he's always struck me as a very decent, team-orientated kind of guy.

dyrewolfe wrote:Would be interesting to see if he could do for Alonso what he did for Schumacher.

Also a very bold and humble statement from Domenicali - but then he's always struck me as a very decent, team-orientated kind of guy.

I think, more likely, what he could do for Vettel in 2015. I think Brawn is already planning something, he's already said that the next few years in the sport could be intriguing. I think he has some kind of fantasy of linking up with Ferrari for next year & then when Vettel joins in 2015, he can attempt to 're-create' that domination he had with Mr. Schumacher.

Agree, Domenicali is a great guy - purely looking out for the best interests of the team he loves.

You see I just don't get what Mercedes are playing at? As Brawn steps down the new Team Principal is Toto Woolf or is it Paddy Lowe - oh wait a moment it is both.

Nice one Mercedes - go totally against the grain of F1 and have two Team Principals. I wonder who Nico and Lewis go to if they have a problem?

CaledonianCraig wrote:You see I just don't get what Mercedes are playing at? As Brawn steps down the new Team Principal is Toto Woolf or is it Paddy Lowe - oh wait a moment it is both.

Nice one Mercedes - go totally against the grain of F1 and have two Team Principals. I wonder who Nico and Lewis go to if they have a problem?

The way I understand it, (leaving job titles aside), Wolff is going to manage the business side of team affairs, while Lowe steps in to take over the role vacated by Brawn. Makes sense as Paddy is very much a technical guy, while Toto is more of a businessman.

So if it makes so much sense how come every other team on the grid are sticking with the tried and trusted one Team Principal set up and why has no other team ever gone down this new Mercedes route before in team management?

CaledonianCraig wrote:So if it makes so much sense how come every other team on the grid are sticking with the tried and trusted one Team Principal set up and why has no other team ever gone down this new Mercedes route before in team management?

I meant it makes sense, so far as distribution of responsibilities goes...not necessarily that it makes sense having 2 "Team Principals".

Who knows? It never hurts to try something new. Maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't. I think in effect Mercedes will still be operating with just the 1 TP. In practice, organisational structures can be flexible and don't always reflect what the people involved actually do.

Well we shall see how they fare. I wish them well and hope they can become even more competitive but we shall see.

Didn't know where to put this but there has been further technical staff movements. Williams continue to make improvements & have strenghtened their technical team by hiring aerodynamicists Dave Wheater from Lotus and Shaun Whitehead from Red Bull. With the Mercedes package next year, Massa might of just made a great move in terms of the next couple of years.

Hmm Mercedes a strong package? Red Bull were the dominant force and were powered by Renault. McLaren had their worst season that I can remember with a Mwrcedes engine so Mercedes aren't exactly the bees knees.

I don't think its the Mercedes engine thats been the problem...remember Hamilton and Rosberg rarely had issues with straight-line speed.

It was aerodynamics where both teams suffered (and in Mercedes' case, excessive tyre wear too...likely a chassis problem).

Brawn to take six-month + sabbatical

Guess we'll be seeing him join Ferrari for 2015 alongside Vettel