Putting the Lions into perspective : Well said Tom Youngs! [ed] Plus arguments about the 2013 tour apparently

First topic message reminder :

"It does [mean more to play for England than it does the Lions]. You’re playing for your country – I feel very passionate about that and feel a great amount of pride playing for them.”

http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/october/news-articles/291013_tom_youngs_aus

I could never understand why or how playing for a select superBaaBaas could ever beat playing for your country.

Step up Tom!
Hip hip
 

etc.

To be fair, you could argue that Jenks was shoehorned into the side despite not being the best player in his own position .. (I was about 8 at the time so not sure what the other full back options were like!)

It could also be argued that Stuart Hogg didn't receive a fair shot at full back in the warm up games .. even if it likely was irrelevant such is Halfpenny's quality at FB

Jenks was there for his goal kicking only, he was useless at fullback, I remember him dropping everything, missing tackles but he hardley missed a kick all tour.

I mentioned Jinks at fb, just to lighten the mood. I think he had already been shuffled back there by Wales a few times back then too (or was it soon after) in order to accomedate an attacking fly half as opposed to a goal kicker.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:... seeing as Neil Jenkins is a legend of the game (highest point score for a fair while, whilst with a poor national team to boot), and was stuck at fullback on the '97 tour you could argue that the coach did get one over on him.  

Thus the trick was repeated in reverse order with Halfpenny? - who was directed to help the Lions fly-halves out of their usual duties (and honours accruing from)  ?

Ah, and who was it who help Tuppance to steal the goal kicking glories from their rightful owners, none other than Jinks, out for revenge after not sending Crhismas cards to Gregor Townsend or Mike Catt for 16 years.  It all adds up at last.

Quite so. Quite so, Scarlet. Revenge is sweet.

LordDowlais wrote:Jenks was there for his goal kicking only, he was useless at fullback, I remember him dropping everything, missing tackles but he hardley missed a kick all tour.

At least he was there for something, what was Lydiate there for?  

 

Unseen work obviously!!

and Warburton?

Lydiate is like the Scarlet pimpernel, he does all his work without anybody knowing that he is there, such is his quality, without him we would all be in trouble.

Scrumpy wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Jenks was there for his goal kicking only, he was useless at fullback, I remember him dropping everything, missing tackles but he hardley missed a kick all tour.

At least he was there for something, what was Lydiate there for?  

He was there to be the Yang to Crofts Yin.  Lydiate tackles like a tackling machine, but doesn't do anything that makes the headlines, and Croft does sod all but pretend to be a back.  Shame you can't merge them into one, then you would have a real world beater of a backrower, or Toby Faletau as he is better known

I seem to remember that the stats said otherwise!

I've never seen a player hyped so much after one good season, which was a few years ago now!

3rd test

SOB 15 tackles
Lydiate 7 tackles

looking forward seeing Dan against the boks or not seeing  

LordDowlais wrote:Lydiate is like the Scarlet pimpernel, he does all his work without anybody knowing that he is there, such is his quality, without him we would all be in trouble.

Wouldn't even have given it a response.

Kind of reminds me of a poster who got banned for similar behaviour before, when trying to provoke Welsh posters with a best ever Lions centres poll. Must be a coincidence.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:looking forward seeing Dan against the boks  or not seeing  

That kind of game is just up his street, is he back to full form now?

Lydiate's first tackle on Alberts might just cause Cardiff to implode

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Lydiate is like the Scarlet pimpernel, he does all his work without anybody knowing that he is there, such is his quality, without him we would all be in trouble.

Wouldn't even have given it a response.

Kind of reminds me of a poster who got banned for similar behaviour before, when trying to provoke Welsh posters with a best ever Lions centres poll. Must be a coincidence.

Maybe that fella got fed up with fans making misleading and false stats too?  

It really is rather obvious why Youngs came out with this, the only thing I cannot fathom, is why it took him so long. He was DROPPED for Hibbard for the final Test, if it had been the other way round, you would not have heard a dicky bird from him.
A bitter little man.

i wonder if his brother feels the same properly being replace by dickson

wayne wrote:It really is rather obvious why Youngs came out with this, the only thing I cannot fathom, is why it took him so long. He was DROPPED for Hibbard for the final Test, if it had been the other way round, you would not have heard a dicky bird from him.
A bitter little man.

yawn. the reality is as an england player one has a reasonable expectation of getting a result against a SH team wearing the national jersey, so playing for the Lions is maybe not so special as it is for the welsh players in that regard.

The perfect storm to demonstrate the underlying veracity OP?

Time to move on from the Di & Visive Lions?

quinsforever wrote:

wayne wrote:It really is rather obvious why Youngs came out with this, the only thing I cannot fathom, is why it took him so long. He was DROPPED for Hibbard for the final Test, if it had been the other way round, you would not have heard a dicky bird from him.
A bitter little man.

yawn. the reality is as an england player one has a reasonable expectation of getting a result against a SH team wearing the national jersey, so playing for the Lions is maybe not so special as it is for the welsh players in that regard.

Always satisfying when 606v2 plunges to these depths and someone has to point out that a country with a population of 60m SHOULD 'expect' to 'get a result' against countries with a population of 50m, 20m, 4m.........

It's basic maths/science/geography.

So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

quins, as a number of Irish posters in the many BOD topics have said Tommy Bowe didn't deserve to oust Alex Cuthbert, yet have you heard Cuthbert moan, Vunipola when Corbs replaced him or even Grant when many said he should have played, the answer to all was No. As I said a bitter little man.

wayne wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

quins, as a number of Irish posters in the many BOD topics have said Tommy Bowe didn't deserve to oust Alex Cuthbert, yet have you heard Cuthbert moan, Vunipola when Corbs replaced him or even Grant when many said he should have played, the answer to all was No. As I said a bitter little man.    

He's not that small...

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

Not an integral part of their sporting culture (you know this already).

England invented rugby, has the best funding, the best 'business guys', absolutely massive players with huge heads, the best 'demographic pyramid' - every possible advantage.

I love English rugby and the fantastic players they have produced; Hill (one of the two greatest players of all time), Johnno, Greenwood, Leonard, Shaw, Woodman, Teague, Winterbottom, Carling, Teague, Cotton, etc etc.... but if the 'fans' could just give it a rest with the whole condescension thing, that would be great.  

Some of you let yourselves down with that stuff.

You're a big country that punches well below your weight, rugby wise.

Casartelli wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

Not an integral part of their sporting culture (you know this already).

England invented rugby, has the best funding, the best 'business guys', absolutely massive players with huge heads, the best 'demographic pyramid' - every possible advantage.

I love English rugby and the fantastic players they have produced; Hill (one of the two greatest players of all time), Johnno, Greenwood, Leonard, Shaw, Woodman, Teague, Winterbottom, Carling, Teague, Cotton, etc etc.... but if the 'fans' could just give it a rest with the whole condescension thing, that would be great.

Some of you let yourselves down with that stuff.
You're a big country that punches well below your weight, rugby wise.

Seems a little harsh TBH?

Casartelli wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

Not an integral part of their sporting culture (you know this already).

England invented rugby, has the best funding, the best 'business guys', absolutely massive players with huge heads, the best 'demographic pyramid' - every possible advantage.

I love English rugby and the fantastic players they have produced; Hill (one of the two greatest players of all time), Johnno, Greenwood, Leonard, Shaw, Woodman, Teague, Winterbottom, Carling, Teague, Cotton, etc etc.... but if the 'fans' could just give it a rest with the whole condescension thing, that would be great.  

Some of you let yourselves down with that stuff.

You're a big country that punches well below your weight, rugby wise.

agree with all of that.

the condescension only usually comes out when someone is having a pop. as far as i am concerned anyway. youngs only making the OP because he got dropped for hibbard...  And i know u didnt say that.

was a bit confused about who the bitter little man was...me...Youngs...BOD?

stub wrote:

wayne wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

quins, as a number of Irish posters in the many BOD topics have said Tommy Bowe didn't deserve to oust Alex Cuthbert, yet have you heard Cuthbert moan, Vunipola when Corbs replaced him or even Grant when many said he should have played, the answer to all was No. As I said a bitter little man.    

He's not that small...

Funnily enough stub, I'm an ex hooker and at our pre season warm up game (Ospreys) I stood next to Hibbs and he thought I wanted a photograph with him, I told him I was a hooker in the late 60s early 70s and wanted to compare our sizes and he is large, not a dwarf in like Youngs.

stub wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

Not an integral part of their sporting culture (you know this already).

England invented rugby, has the best funding, the best 'business guys', absolutely massive players with huge heads, the best 'demographic pyramid' - every possible advantage.

I love English rugby and the fantastic players they have produced; Hill (one of the two greatest players of all time), Johnno, Greenwood, Leonard, Shaw, Woodman, Teague, Winterbottom, Carling, Teague, Cotton, etc etc.... but if the 'fans' could just give it a rest with the whole condescension thing, that would be great.  

Some of you let yourselves down with that stuff.
You're a big country that punches well below your weight, rugby wise.

Seems a little harsh TBH?

It was only directed (as is usual when it comes to such matters) at the small, gobby, minority.

wayne wrote:

stub wrote:

wayne wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

quins, as a number of Irish posters in the many BOD topics have said Tommy Bowe didn't deserve to oust Alex Cuthbert, yet have you heard Cuthbert moan, Vunipola when Corbs replaced him or even Grant when many said he should have played, the answer to all was No. As I said a bitter little man.    

He's not that small...

Funnily enough stub, I'm an ex hooker and at our pre season warm up game (Ospreys) I stood next to Hibbs and he thought I wanted a photograph with him, I told him I was a hooker in the late 60s early 70s and wanted to compare our sizes and he is large, not a dwarf in like Youngs.

Yeah, after I typed my post I looked up Youngs and he is just 5ft 9 which surprised me. (perhaps should have checked first!). That said he's 16 stone so there's still quite a lot of him Just not vertically!

Casartelli wrote:

stub wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

Not an integral part of their sporting culture (you know this already).

England invented rugby, has the best funding, the best 'business guys', absolutely massive players with huge heads, the best 'demographic pyramid' - every possible advantage.

I love English rugby and the fantastic players they have produced; Hill (one of the two greatest players of all time), Johnno, Greenwood, Leonard, Shaw, Woodman, Teague, Winterbottom, Carling, Teague, Cotton, etc etc.... but if the 'fans' could just give it a rest with the whole condescension thing, that would be great.  

Some of you let yourselves down with that stuff.
You're a big country that punches well below your weight, rugby wise.

Seems a little harsh TBH?

It was only directed (as is usual when it comes to such matters) at the small, gobby, minority.

Fair enough - I reckon that most nations represented here have a few posters who may adopt a condescending style.

stub wrote:

wayne wrote:

stub wrote:

wayne wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

quins, as a number of Irish posters in the many BOD topics have said Tommy Bowe didn't deserve to oust Alex Cuthbert, yet have you heard Cuthbert moan, Vunipola when Corbs replaced him or even Grant when many said he should have played, the answer to all was No. As I said a bitter little man.    

He's not that small...

Funnily enough stub, I'm an ex hooker and at our pre season warm up game (Ospreys) I stood next to Hibbs and he thought I wanted a photograph with him, I told him I was a hooker in the late 60s early 70s and wanted to compare our sizes and he is large, not a dwarf in like Youngs.

Yeah, after I typed my post I looked up Youngs and he is just 5ft 9 which surprised me. (perhaps should have checked first!). That said he's 16 stone so  there's still quite a lot of him Just not vertically!

Stub, I'm not normally like this that was one of the very few WUMs I've ever done, the first post was just before dinner and as I had a couple of bites I thought I'd have a bit more fun. The Hibbard story was true by the way, no hard feelings hope everyone else feels the same way.

if someone uses the chip on their shoulder as an offensive weapon, the most effective parry is aloof condescension. negates the attack while putting said attacker on the back foot. basic stuff.

Cas, are you still upset at me about the IRFU's numbers and the accounting thing? poor show if so, trying to take the moral high ground here with me by playing victim.

wayne wrote:

stub wrote:

wayne wrote:

stub wrote:

wayne wrote:

quinsforever wrote:So the US and china are pants at rugby because...

quins, as a number of Irish posters in the many BOD topics have said Tommy Bowe didn't deserve to oust Alex Cuthbert, yet have you heard Cuthbert moan, Vunipola when Corbs replaced him or even Grant when many said he should have played, the answer to all was No. As I said a bitter little man.    

He's not that small...

Funnily enough stub, I'm an ex hooker and at our pre season warm up game (Ospreys) I stood next to Hibbs and he thought I wanted a photograph with him, I told him I was a hooker in the late 60s early 70s and wanted to compare our sizes and he is large, not a dwarf in like Youngs.

Yeah, after I typed my post I looked up Youngs and he is just 5ft 9 which surprised me. (perhaps should have checked first!). That said he's 16 stone so  there's still quite a lot of him Just not vertically!

Stub, I'm not normally like this that was one of the very few WUMs I've ever done, the first post was just before dinner and as I had a couple of bites I thought I'd have a bit more fun. The Hibbard story was true by the way, no hard feelings hope everyone else feels the same way.

Certainly no hard feelings here!  

at the risk of being condescending  none here either.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:They do Cyril..and shouldnt..

Remind me, who are we talking about?

I was refering to Taylormans quote that only the lions have come close to beating a SH team.

I was merely reminding him that Scotland beat Australia last summer in Australia and gave the Boks a right good go down there this summer....

Cyril merely commented that Scotland are always forgotten to which i agreed they always seem to be...

Scotland.

Nope.

Remind me who are they

Scrumpy wrote:

I seem to remember that the stats said otherwise!

I've never seen a player hyped so much after one good season, which was a few years ago now!

3rd test

SOB 15 tackles
Lydiate 7 tackles

To be fair, I've never seen O'brien do any unseen work

Wales then Lions for me, always has been that way and always will be. Still a big fan of the Lions though. And I also agree with what someone else said. The English are whinging because there weren't enough English on tour, the Irish are whinging because BOD was dropped and Gatland is worse than Hitler. The Scots on the other hand, are still posting Hogg's running metre's made stats.

Just a few points what is a tour,by todays definition a Lions tour including tests[3] about
12 games.Of those on the recent pattern they will face full strength sides with the odd
exception only in Test matches.
From what he was saying the context is he values playing more for his Country than a
Multi-national one.That is fair comment BUT it is not a case of either or IF he was offered
a chance to tour Nz 2017 would he refuse it.
The Tour today for national side lasts about 3 weeks to a month assuming a 3 match series.
Compare that to mini tours circa 1958 three or so matches in say SA 30r so provincial sides
then 2 or 3 tests..
The originalMaori Tour to Europe and America was about 120 matches lasting about 13 months in the 1880`s.There have 3 Lions tours to Australia result 2-1 Lions,£ to Argentina
3-0.
12 to NZ /Aus combined or alone with the Aus portion usually won,BUT only 1 win versus NZ.
There has been even more to SA with Lions winning 4 and halving 1.These were great events
with many great players.
Lions were not only players but representatives of these Isles,and taken into peoples homes
it was not just a tour but an adventure.
In practical terms Tours in the traditional sense ended with professionalism today it isn`t
a sport it`s a job.
Today a established player as long as he performs can expect maybe 10 years at the top.
Then a pension in France or Japan,maybe coaching or as a media expert.
There is no comparison once you played 4 test s a year maybe 5 in a Tour year.
The Lions was the only show in town ,imagine SCW `s England going to SA or NZ facing
28 games including midweek.Non stop travelling facing top strength Provincial sides as well
as small ones 15 a side .No Subs,No cards, then see what his record would have like nothing
like it was.
IF You want to learn the ethos of the Lions recommend "Wallace Rayburns Book on Rugby"
if you can find one.Then read Heinz 57`s comments on his team mates of 1955,1959,Price,
Jeeps,Mulligan,Pedlow,Jackson ,Risman,Hewitt,Butterfield,Risman,Terry Davies,Ken Scotland.
Also on the players they met Viviers,Meads,Tremain,Don Clarke,etc.
The Lions is sadly the past and recent events have shown the lack of respect for it maybe
its time to kill it.