When does Experimental Become Experienced

I was having a discussion on facebook about the Welsh team for tonight after that ever so non bitter ex player JJ Williams doubted the benefit of the Tongan game saying we are devaluing caps by giving youngsters who know one has heard of (doesn't he watched Regional rugby then?) a game.

Someone asked when does and experimental team (some say tonights is) become and experienced team which when you look at it tonight isn't that experimental as there are 451 caps in the side as follows :

Front row 65 caps
2nd row 102
B/Row 108

H/Backs 89

Centres 8

Back 3 79

Ok so the centres are very in experienced and that is one area which does worry me if the old Tongan torpedos get a run at them but can a side with 451 in be described as experiemental and also how or when are the likes of Cory Allen last week and Amos this week going to get their chane.  After all a coach took a punt on a young JJ Williams years ago.

The game has changed. Good sides don't have good teams. They have good squads. You can't keep playing your best XV. Even 22 players is not enough to cover for injury, form and rest.

Since 2011, NZ has introduced Faumuina, Coles, Retallick, Romano, Luatua, Cane, Aaron Smith, TKB, Perenara, Barrett, Ben Smith, Piutau, Savea, Thrush, Crotty and I've probably forgotten some. If you asked people outside of NZ how many of those they recognized Id be very surprised if any were known. A few are still iffy but the majority are now considered integral or experienced.

The trick is to combine inexperience with inexperience. Absolutely ridiculous from Williams to criticise these selections. Devalue the jersey, handing out caps to anyone is not a new accusation. Kronfeld said that about McCaw. Williams himself started from scratch but normally ego blinds ex players to this obvious fact and they believe experience materializes from nothing. It does but not in the way they would have us believe. You have to find out about a player before you invest in them. Test rugby is the best place to do that.

Just because you're famous doesn't mean you've got something useful to say. This is a classic example. Who knows what he was asked to give that response or how edited his response was but Williams or the journalist are way off the mark. Then of course that was at least the intention of the latter.

Since 2011 Wales have capped Toby Faletau, Scott Andrews, Scott Williams, Justin Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, Ken Owens, Alex Cuthbert, Aaron Shingler, Rhodri Jones, Liam Williams, Andrew Coombs, Rhys Patchell, Owen Williams, Cory Allen, Sampson Lee and tonight they will cap Hallam Amos.

There are probably a few more not included.

It is quite interesting, as you say, to look at who becomes established and how long it takes. The result is very much based on their impact and performance.

When they start winning.

When their backs can pass to each other...

bedfordwelsh wrote:I was having a discussion on facebook about the Welsh team for tonight after that ever so non bitter ex player JJ Williams doubted the benefit of the Tongan game saying we are devaluing caps by giving youngsters who know one has heard of (doesn't he watched Regional rugby then?) a game.

He makes a valid point, but he made it at the wrong time. When Prydie debuted for Wales was the time to make this statement.

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I was having a discussion on facebook about the Welsh team for tonight after that ever so non bitter ex player JJ Williams doubted the benefit of the Tongan game saying we are devaluing caps by giving youngsters who know one has heard of (doesn't he watched Regional rugby then?) a game.

He makes a valid point, but he made it at the wrong time. When Prydie debuted for Wales was the time to make this statement.

Again though when are we supposed to experiement? I am sure some people said my are we capping this young kid JJ Williams all them years back.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I was having a discussion on facebook about the Welsh team for tonight after that ever so non bitter ex player JJ Williams doubted the benefit of the Tongan game saying we are devaluing caps by giving youngsters who know one has heard of (doesn't he watched Regional rugby then?) a game.

He makes a valid point, but he made it at the wrong time. When Prydie debuted for Wales was the time to make this statement.

Again though when are we supposed to experiement?  I am sure some people said my are we capping this young kid JJ Williams all them years back.

We are doing a good job, whether forced to or not, of bringing in young players all the time. We are also doing well spotting the late developers that are a valuable addition, like Andrew Coombs, Lloyd Burns was another example, shame about his ill health causing his retirement I don't think anyone could have seen that coming.

I am not sure many of the other home nations could cope as well as we have with replacing players over the last few years. We are dealing with using fourth or fifth choice tightheads, locks, centres and replacing them with talent that takes the opportunity given and starts to make a name for themselves.

Considering how rugby was in Wales twenty years ago, we should be proud how hard everyone has worked to get the game back on its feet.

GunsGerms wrote:When they start winning.

exactly.

Scratch wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When they start winning.

exactly.

Have to agree, sometimes I get the feeling Welsh fans get satisfied by being beat as long as they have this excuse or that. Using a 4th choice TH isn't anyone elses fault or problem, deal with injuries through prehab better.

I don't like this culture that blames 7/8 injuries as bad luck, when in reality most can be avoided in some way or another.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I was having a discussion on facebook about the Welsh team for tonight after that ever so non bitter ex player JJ Williams doubted the benefit of the Tongan game saying we are devaluing caps by giving youngsters who know one has heard of (doesn't he watched Regional rugby then?) a game.

He makes a valid point, but he made it at the wrong time. When Prydie debuted for Wales was the time to make this statement.

Again though when are we supposed to experiement?  I am sure some people said my are we capping this young kid JJ Williams all them years back.

You miss our point. Experimentation/rotation is necessary. Handing out novelty caps is not, IE, Tom Prydie, Harry Robinson, Andries Pretorious, Daffyd Howells.

butterfingers wrote:

Scratch wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When they start winning.

exactly.

Have to agree, sometimes I get the feeling Welsh fans get satisfied by being beat as long as they have this excuse or that. Using a 4th choice TH isn't anyone elses fault or problem, deal with injuries through prehab better.

I don't like this culture that blames 7/8 injuries as bad luck, when in reality most can be avoided in some way or another.

Wales are dealing with injuries, they deal with them better than most. Considering the amount of players available the strength of welsh rugby is remarkable.

Does anyone in England or Ireland even know who their fourth and fifth choice Tighthead is? They haven't used anyone in a major bar Cole and Wilson in Wngland or Ross and Court since 2011.

Who are France or Scotland's fifth or sixth placed locks? How many caps have they got?