Are the All Blacks getting harder to like?

First topic message reminder :

I settled to watch the game yesterday with my usual neutrals hat on. I became passionate and animated as the game developed because I was watching a superb example of my favourite sport. By the closing moments I could have been mistaken for the most die hard Irish fan as I screamed at the TV willing an Irish victory. Why? Another example of supporting the underdog? It felt more than that.

As long as I can remember I have admired the All Blacks - without doubt the best, most consistent team I have grown up with. I count players like Shelford, Jones, Brooke, Fitzpatrick, Cullen, Carter amongst the best I have seen. I was happy that in 2011 they got the "choking" monkey off their backs and won a WC on home soil. So here's the but: admire them as I do I'm finding it harder to like them. I'm having a problem with the inevitability of them winning and with the overwhelming expectancy of them winning. I need more unpredicability in my sport. As I watched the final moments yesterday despite every bit of me wanting Ireland to win I knew, actualy knew beyond any doubt, that NZ would snatch it. No team should make me feel like that - it's just not fair.

I don't expect an AB fan to understand my ramblings when they are busy celebrating 14 straight wins in one year, but surely some other "neutral" out there is looking forward to their next loss when a bit of sporting unpredictability can be restored?

Anyway thanks to both teams for a great game.

Never really liked the ABs. They are a team you aspire to be like and give respect to but they are one of the teams you most want to beat. To see an underdog like Ireland take them on was great to see. Unfortunately there was that inevitability that NZ would come back at Ireland.NZ are that kind of team. You admire them for their doggedness but you also dislike them for their ability to sneak a win at the death.

They are up there on a pedestal. It's that underdog mentality vs the champion mentality.

Got to support the underdog.

blackcanelion wrote:GunsGerms. Everytime there's a close international game. The boards on here get hit by at least one fan of the losing side who p&^%ed at something. The ref, their own team, the opposition, the pitch, the opposition fans, etc (pick any of the above).

Yeah I know. Its normal. Im just curious because ones response is obviously going to be very different if you win or lose. As a fan on the losing side the referee Nigel Owens really frustrates me. I acknowledge that he is the best referee in the game but Ireland have come close to the ABs twice in the last year or so and he officiated both. In both games he gave NZ a penalty in the dying moments of the game and NZ went on to score from both penalties to win the game.

Im not going to comment on whether either were justified or not but its frustrating that that has been the trend in both games. Its always a tough pill to swallow when a game is decided by a penalty.

Guns Germs I feel there were a few decisive moments before that last kick by Cruden.

E.g. Sexton missing that kick, giving the ball back to NZ with that penalty and kicks etc.

On the 78th minute I thought NZ had blown their opportunity when Cruden kicked the ball back to you but nope... that's NZ.

beshocked wrote:Guns Germs I feel there were a few decisive moments before that last kick by Cruden.

E.g. Sexton missing that kick, giving the ball back to NZ with that penalty and kicks etc.

On the 78th minute I thought NZ had blown their opportunity when Cruden kicked the ball back to you but nope... that's NZ.

No question about that. My gripes are borderline irrational just an example of how when you lose you look to try to justify exactly how it happened.

GunsGerms wrote:GE if NZ had lost the game on Sunday what would your gripe have been if any?

Also and I know this is a little self serving but what player/s if any impressed you most for Ireland.

I was actually thinking about that in the moments just before the last penalty was awarded. The spinning head was preparing to congratulate the Irish, to wonder how on earth the ABs managed to get to this point, but also of the happiness the win would have meant for so many people. If not happiness, relief, excitement etc to those with an interest in winning this.

In a weird way the likely Irish celebration goes in some way towards just how much it means to beat the ABs and that would have been fun in a way.

The resulting try buried all those thoughts rather quickly but the fallout would have been interesting if we'd lost. I actually wish sometimes we'd lost at some earlier test so this weight was not always on the Irish every time we meet.

Only gripe would have been how we managed to have to fight for every match this AIs. We seem to have mastered the art of winning ugly but sometimes winning well helps every now and then as well.

GunsGerms wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:GunsGerms. Everytime there's a close international game. The boards on here get hit by at least one fan of the losing side who p&^%ed at something. The ref, their own team, the opposition, the pitch, the opposition fans, etc (pick any of the above).

Yeah I know. Its normal. Im just curious because ones response is obviously going to be very different if you win or lose. As a fan on the losing side the referee Nigel Owens really frustrates me. I acknowledge that he is the best referee in the game but Ireland have come close to the ABs twice in the last year or so and he officiated both. In both games he gave NZ a penalty in the dying moments of the game and NZ went on to score from both penalties to win the game.

Im not going to comment on whether either were justified or not but its frustrating that that has been the trend in both games. Its always a tough pill to swallow when a game is decided by a penalty.

Fair enough. I'm not a fan of Owens either. I watched delayed coverage and knew the result. I'm guessing we were irritated by different things. I suspect my expectations are unrealistic. Doesn't stop me though.

"In both games he gave NZ a penalty in the dying moments of the game and NZ went on to score from both penalties to win the game."

It was a conversion that NZ had to win the game on Sunday, I don't think too much blame can be put with Owens for allowing NZ a conversion after a try.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"In both games he gave NZ a penalty in the dying moments of the game and NZ went on to score from both penalties to win the game."

It was a conversion that NZ had to win the game on Sunday, I don't think too much blame can be put with Owens for allowing NZ a conversion after a try.

Not talking about the conversion, I'm referring to the penalty Owens awarded NZ on 79:30 when Ireland were in posession that lead to the score. There was approx 30 seconds to play and all Ireland had to do was hold on and then kick to touch.

New Zealand are frustratingly good and if you a neutral its enjoyable to watch them but you still want them to get beaten only because the underdog thing

GG there were a few rucks near the end where I thought here we go a penalty for holding but it was let go much like it was during the game. It did seem a rather innocuous penalty at the end but it wasn't anywhere bear as bad as the game two years ago against Wales in Ireland. But if a kick had been enough to win the match and within range maybe you'd have been more infuriated by the penalty call. Who'd be a ref though....

I used to loathe the All Blacks, they seemed to win by ruthless thuggery as much as anything else. Ashworth raking JPR (and his/the team's reaction afterwards), Meads thumping Dai Watkins (10 stone), the attempt to take out the 71 Lions before the first test and what have you.

In the modern era they seem to win by playing the best rugby. They do seem to get the rub of the green a bit on reffing decisions, but they are clearly the best rugby team on the planet and set the standard for the rest.