Northampton V Leinster

First topic message reminder :

Big game for both sides. Northampton in decent form. Leinster without the injury list they had at this stage last year. (When they were a lineout away from beating Clermont in Clermont)

Mat O'Connor should have his homework done on NH. NH should have a chip on their shoulder after the 2011 final.

Leinster have never lost at Franklins Gardens. (Beat NH back to back when they were reigning champs)

Last time Leinster lost an away HC Pool game to anyone but Clermont was Wasps in Twickenham 5 years ago. (So no pressure then)

Hopefully a good spectacle with neither winner nor loser having any complaints.

Actual team.

15: Rob Kearney
14: Dave Kearney
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Ian Madigan
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Cian Healy
2: Sean Cronin
3: Mike Ross
4: Devin Toner
5: Mike McCarthy
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Sean O'Brien
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack McGrath
18: Martin Moore
19: Leo Cullen
20: Shane Jennings
21: Isaac Boss
22: Jimmy Gopperth
23: Zane Kirchner

Saints

15. James Wilson
14. Ken Pisi
13. Dom Waldouck
12. Luther Burrell
11. George North
10. Steve Myler
9. Lee Dickson
1. Alex Waller
2. Dylan Hartley (capt)
3. Salesi Ma'afu
4. Samu Manoa
5. Courtney Lawes
6. Tom Wood
7. Phil Dowson
8. Sam Dickinson

REPLACEMENTS:

16. Mikey Haywood
17. Ethan Waller
18. Tom Mercey
19. Christian Day
20. Calum Clark
21. Ryan Glynn
22. Glenn Dickson
23. Jamie Elliott

TJ, the ref gave three penalties in the move up to the Leinster 5m and then carded the Leinster replacement for slapping the ball down after the quick tap (the fourth offence). That was Leinster needing to get their breath back and looking to cynically kill the ball. That is hardly a revolutionary tactic though when Saints players are described as "cynical" it does make me chuckle. Most teams will commit a cynical offence if they think a) they'll get away with it or b) not getting away with it is still better than letting play continue.

Nasty players should read niggling players other than Clark where it should read dirty, lying player (that's for another thread though)..

Not my memory at all. the yellow was for coming in at the4 side and kicking the ball away. the tap was called back for being in the wrong place / the ref not ready

Sorry - I simply did not see significant cynical ball killing. What I saw was one team attacking the breakdown and a team not used to having to contest the breakdown

Wow, just wow. I thought we'd sneak a win but I didn't expect that. Accuracy and pace that we've not seen in a while, and with 15 Irish internationals starting. Even more remarkable when you think we could and probably should have scored 2 more tries with handy conversions. I'm a proud man today.

And rightly so - absolutely awesome display of rugby  

HammerofThunor wrote:

Notch wrote:Almost a year on exactly from Ulster scoring four tries at Franklins Gardens... fortunately next year the English sides can pretend to be as good as they want and won't have unwelcome evidence such as this getting in the way.

Was that the week before they beat you at Ravenhill? Can't quite remember.

No we lost at home after we had qualification virtually secured - just got sloppy.

Well done Leinster - didn't see because Sky swapped the Rugby to show England being thrashed at Cricket so the recording didn't work  

Not a single English team is in a good place with respect to winning their group - they do know its next year not this that they are not playing don't they  

We probably would have won that game if Tommy Bowe had had the good sense to wreck his knee a bit further away from where our last penalty was awarded!

Wasn't there was a long delay while they got Tommy sorted which involved several different types of stretcher being brought on and off the pitch. I think Pienaar would have nailed it to win the game if he hadn't had to stand around for ages.

Brilliant display by Leinster yesterday!

 

Has Ruddock had much of mention? He was monstrous yesterday - he looks to be finally starting to live up to his potential - a massively improved player this year.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Fantastic performance from Leinster. BOD played like a man possessed - I thought that his magic had gone (I missed the ABs game, so can't comment on that display).

So that's both me and Warren left feeling like we're sucking lemons.

Saints need a back-up back three, though.

Why is Warren?

Risca Rev wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Fantastic performance from Leinster. BOD played like a man possessed - I thought that his magic had gone (I missed the ABs game, so can't comment on that display).

So that's both me and Warren left feeling like we're sucking lemons.

Saints need a back-up back three, though.

Why is Warren?

Rev,

Be the bigger man as they, we know they won't let it lie. BOD by all accounts was immense yesterday and good luck to him the bloke is a class act but some still think that performances like that is a smack in the face for Gatland but he choose his pairing and they prodiced goods for him end of.

Portnoy is english! Jeez get over yourself, the only people who bring up the whole BOD being dropped are people from outside of Ireland! We are long over it.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Portnoy is english! Jeez get over yourself, the only people who bring up the whole BOD being dropped are people from outside of Ireland! We are long over it.

Thanks for speaking on behalf of all the Irish  

Geoff, Sarries are top of their group, Quins are second in theirs as are Tigers. How is that no AP team in a good position?

Love how some fans criticise Scarlets and Ospreys for losing to Leinster, those same English have gone a bit quiet now .

I missed the game, but that must have been a phenomenal game of rugby by Leinster. Every time I think they're going to struggle they come out and absolutely thrash the opposition. I think it's clear they are going to be a champion team for many years to come.

p.s. Great tekkers from BOD for Fitz 2nd try. Nice to see BOD on the score sheet as well. There's still life left in him!

The Saint wrote:Love how some fans criticise Scarlets and Ospreys for losing to Leinster, those same English have gone a bit quiet now .

I missed the game, but that must have been a phenomenal game of rugby by Leinster. Every time I think they're going to struggle they come out and absolutely thrash the opposition. I think it's clear they are going to be a champion team for many years to come.

p.s. Great tekkers from BOD for Fitz 2nd try. Nice to see BOD on the score sheet as well. There's still life left in him!

Did they really? You got any evidence for them of them criticising losing to leinster in the HC?

Could you rephrase that?

BTW, if you want evidence I suggest you locate the early season threads, i.e. the first game of the season (Scarlets versus Leinster).  

Is this thrashing gonna make you lot want to stay in Europe and 'attempt' to mix it with the best teams, or will it push you further away for fear of embarrassing yourselves against these teams again in the future?

There is a thread going specifically for euro trash talking.
https://www.606v2.com/t50236p500-new-european-rugby-cup-or-whatever-it-is-called-qualification-agreed

Any highlights up anywhere yet, I missed this due to my viewing of the Ulster match only

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchdaytv

The Leinster website always put up a good highlights package.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchdaytv

The Leinster website always put up a good highlights package.

Nice one cheers

formerly known as Sam wrote:Geoff, Sarries are top of their group, Quins are second in theirs as are Tigers. How is that no AP team in a good position?

Yep I'd say a few English teams are in a decent position still. I didn't quite understand Geoff's post on this one either - perhaps just wishful thinking?  

stub wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Geoff, Sarries are top of their group, Quins are second in theirs as are Tigers. How is that no AP team in a good position?

Yep I'd say a few English teams are in a decent position still. I didn't quite understand Geoff's post on this one either - perhaps just wishful thinking?  

Most observers from all nations and leagues admit fully that English sides deserve to be in HEC. What we disagree with is PRLs contention that some of the rest of us don't. That's all. We say the English deserve to be there but so do the rest of us.

Connacht wins against Toulouse in Toulouse...

SecretFly wrote:

stub wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Geoff, Sarries are top of their group, Quins are second in theirs as are Tigers. How is that no AP team in a good position?

Yep I'd say a few English teams are in a decent position still. I didn't quite understand Geoff's post on this one either - perhaps just wishful thinking?  

Most observers from all nations and leagues admit fully that English sides deserve to be in HEC.  What we disagree with is PRLs contention that some of the rest of us don't.  That's all.  We say the English deserve to be there but so do the rest of us.

Eh? Was that in response to my post? If so I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. Glad you feel that English deserve to be in HC though SF  

stub wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Most observers from all nations and leagues admit fully that English sides deserve to be in HEC.  What we disagree with is PRLs contention that some of the rest of us don't.  That's all.  We say the English deserve to be there but so do the rest of us.

Eh? Was that in response to my post? If so I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. Glad you feel that English deserve to be in HC though SF  

Nah...no wrong end, stub.  PRL wanted to dilute national contributions from other nations... but we never said we didn't want English involvement.  So right on the button as regards the wishes of PRL.

Feckless Rogue wrote:There is a thread going specifically for euro trash talking.
https://www.606v2.com/t50236p500-new-european-rugby-cup-or-whatever-it-is-called-qualification-agreed

Yeah I apologise. I started all this BS. It's okay to feel anger, it's not okay to let that anger dictate your actions and words.

I didn't want to open the floodgates.

How did Rhys Ruddock play?  A few years back I thought he looked outstanding, is he coming back to that form shown in his earlier career?  It does feel strange saying that, he is only 23..

SecretFly wrote:

stub wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Most observers from all nations and leagues admit fully that English sides deserve to be in HEC.  What we disagree with is PRLs contention that some of the rest of us don't.  That's all.  We say the English deserve to be there but so do the rest of us.

Eh? Was that in response to my post? If so I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. Glad you feel that English deserve to be in HC though SF  

Nah...no wrong end, stub.  PRL wanted to dilute national contributions from other nations... but we never said we didn't want English involvement.  So right on the button as regards the wishes of PRL.

Perhaps not the wrong end of your own views SF but certainly very much the wrong end of my post.

The Saint wrote: 

Is this thrashing gonna make you lot want to stay in Europe and 'attempt' to mix it with the best teams, or will it push you further away for fear of embarrassing yourselves against these teams again in the future?

How do the Welsh usually do in the HC? I assume they are ever present in finals and such? Or are you just riding on Irish coat tails when referring to "best teams"

Pathetic

Ah yeah, stub. Didn't mean it to sound like I was disagreeing with you. Apologies if it sounded that way. No, I was only talking about my perceptions about what PRL wanted and our disagreement with their views

One other thing to come out of the game is that while George North is great with ball in hand going forward, his defence is lousy - his defence to Heaslip's try was absolutely dire.

No worries SF!  Great weekend for the Irish and a great advert for the HC...

Fly,

there really is no need for you to try and wedge in comments about the prl mess on every thread!

nathan wrote:Fly,

there really is no need for you to try and wedge in comments about the prl mess on every thread!

I didn't wedge in anything but I did respond to the introduction. And will continue to do so at every opportunity if I feel it merits my time to post something on it.

This very topic is ultra serious, as it has and will continue to effect the continuing growth of rugby union in my country. So forgive me for having passionate views on the topic and continually adding them with posts in 606.

I'll stop commenting on it when the time is right for me to stop commenting on it.

So back we go to the specific games of the day then.

Fly, Notch has already said he regrets dragging in the dispute to this thread.

Why not follow his lead rather than deciding his post means this one can become another pile-on?

Fly, then discuss it on threads meant for it.

Rugby Fan wrote:Fly, Notch has already said he regrets dragging in the dispute to this thread.

Why not follow his lead rather than deciding his post means this one can become another pile-on?

I was replying to comments. I can reply to comments - not all of them came from Notch. I was also finished commenting on it until I get the post from you. It's a legitimate topic on any of these HEC threads if done with mutual respect and without insulting anyone in a personal way.

I think I respect people in here whilst having contrary views (as happens in the real world)

nathan wrote:Fly, then discuss it on threads meant for it.

Go round the circle and say that to everyone who has mentioned it on this thread. I'm not the only one who has.

Anyway, back to the games of the day!

I wasn't asking you just to finish, Fly, I was also asking you not to start or join in. I asked the same of Notch before you added your comments.

There are more rounds in this year's Heineken still to come. If you feel entitled to turn every match thread into a crusade on the future of the competition then the forum quickly becomes a dull place.

English teams tend not to throw in the towel, to be fair to them. Ironically they've shown great respect for the tournament over the years, in terms of putting out their best team and committing to performing well even when hopes of qualifying are lost. Unlike the French.

Mallinder has some job turning this around for the second match. Although they did do it last year. Can Northampton still qualify?

Rugby Fan wrote:I wasn't asking you just to finish, Fly, I was also asking you not to start or join in. I asked the same of Notch before you added your comments.

There are more rounds in this year's Heineken still to come. If you feel entitled to turn every match thread into a crusade on the future of the competition then the forum quickly becomes a dull place.

I'll comment on comments made and won't be guided to act a good lad and not reply to comments made on a 'comments' forum.  That's school time and I'm in my mid-40s...

You are making this a big deal more than I am.  It wasn't a big deal - as you can see from the way I inter-reacted with stub and his reactions to me.  Comments shared, legitimate comments in light of the HEC being so contentious this year - respect shown.  No big deal, nobody fighting, no kitchen sinks being thrown around, legitimate points that will not only be risen here but will be risen on all media platforms in the coming days and months whenever the games are played.  

Denying it isn't an elephant in the room isn't going to stop it being an elephant in the room.  
Now perhaps all of us who profess that we don't like listening to it, actually go ahead and chat about the Leinster game then, if that indeed is the topic.

BamBam wrote:

The Saint wrote: 

Is this thrashing gonna make you lot want to stay in Europe and 'attempt' to mix it with the best teams, or will it push you further away for fear of embarrassing yourselves against these teams again in the future?

How do the Welsh usually do in the HC? I assume they are ever present in finals and such? Or are you just riding on Irish coat tails when referring to "best teams"

Pathetic

Don't do very well, though 3 did fairly well this weekend. Don't see the relevance here though seeing as we're referring to the best teams? Best teams in Europe refers to a group that I consider to be Europe's best. Ulster and Leinster (who just beat Northampton) are in that group so I'm merely stating an opinion, not coat-tailing. If you want coat-tailing look to yourself and fellow English who desperately latch on to the coat-tails of Australia. #30-3 . #patheticattempt

 

Feckless Rogue wrote:English teams tend not to throw in the towel, to be fair to them. Ironically they've shown great respect for the tournament over the years, in terms of putting out their best team and committing to performing well even when hopes of qualifying are lost. Unlike the French.

Mallinder has some job turning this around for the second match. Although they did do it last year. Can Northampton still qualify?

I agree with you on English teams not throwing the towel in, and the French. Though the French these days can usually make 15 changes without it phasing their form that much, such is the quality of players they are bringing in these days.

Wouldn't Saints need to win all their remaining games to stand a chance? A trip to the Liberty and RDS. They could probably spank the French at home when the time comes. I seem to remember them getting convincingly beating at home by Scarlets and Ulster in this competition only for them to then go and beat them away.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:How did Rhys Ruddock play?  A few years back I thought he looked outstanding, is he coming back to that form shown in his earlier career?  It does feel strange saying that, he is only 23..

I thought he was excellent Rory, he seems to be playing like a big man now rather than just looking like one, seems more physical and aggressive.

I've only seen the highlights of the game but from what I've seen;
1- Leinster stayed extremely focused for the entire game. Precision, accuracy, it was all there.
2- There was great competition at the breakdown by Leinster. I don't think the Saints pack performed anywhere near the level that their fans expected.
3- Ruddock is now a beast of a player.  I always thought that Ruddock has the build for a long career as a backrow player but maybe not the attitude and Dom Ryan had attitude to be a great player but maybe not the build to survive the wear and tear.  This game makes me think that Ruddock might have the attitude to do well.
4- We lost Healy before the start of the game, and the pack didn't miss a beat.  The start of last season if I was told we would be in an away game without Strauss and Healy I'd predict we would struggle.  With McGrath and Cronin (and also Moore behind Ross) we have great depth.  Biggest problem now is to keep on to all of them.
5- Toner and McCarthy in the engine room did very well against what I usually think is a strong second row unit at the Saints.
6- The half backs played very well, kept the tempo high which I liked.  I also liked how Reddan reacted the same to spilling that ball on the line and scoring his try. Pure concentration with his mind moving to the next phase of the play.
7- While the chorus builds on Darcy/BOD to be finished at Test level, they are still more than capable on the european stage.
8- Luke.... best I've seen him in a long time.  He used to be too eager and over run his support line but now he has his timing (finally) adjusted you can enjoy watching him pop up during multiphases of play.
9- Cronin should be used as cover for our centres, that guy is deceptively quick in open field running, good centre of gravity, decent change of pace, and except for the forward pass to Luke in this game usually has good distribution.
10- Saints have to respond to this next week.  No team takes a drubbing like that at home.  Must get a response.  Next week will be a far closer affair.  I reckon there could be a couple of yellow cards which determine the game as there will be a nice bit of niggle for the match.

Huge moment early on when Lawes, much vaunted for his tackling launches himself at O'Brien like an exercet missile and SOB just bounced him off.

Lawes generally only makes big hits on backs or people on the floor

Just taking from the leinster site, looks like just bumps and bruises with the same people available for this weekend;

leinster site wrote:
 
There were a number of bumps and bruises arising from Saturday's bonus point victory in Franklin's Gardens, with Sean O'Brien picking up a dead leg during the first half which is set to limit his on-field training in the early part of this week. However the management are optimistic that the Ireland wing-forward will be available for selection ahead of Friday's midday team announcement.

Isaac Boss (tight hamstring) was a late withdrawal from the panel, but the medical team are hopeful that he too will be available having made his 50th Heineken Cup career appearance in the Round 2 victory over Castres Olympique.

Cian Healy has a leg injury which will continue to be assessed by the medical team, but he is still in contention this weekend.
Sean Cronin's next game will be his 60th in Leinster colours, Rhys Ruddock is one game away from the 70 cap milestone, while prop Jack McGrath is now two caps shy of the half century mark in all competitions for Leinster. Out-half Ian Madigan's 10-point haul in Northampton took his to the 400-point career landmark in his 89 games to date.

The Leinster 'A' team kept up their winning run on Saturday with a 31-0 victory over Cross Keys in Donnybrook. There are no major injury concerns for Girvan Dempsey's men ahead of their return Round 4 fixture in Pandy Park on Saturday afternoon (KO: 3pm).

Leinster Rugby is proud to support the great work of the Irish Youth Foundation and Arc Cancer Support Centre. This Saturday there will be an envelope on every seat in the Aviva Stadium. Please help us to help them by putting €2 or what you can into your envelope and pop it into the Santa sacks located around the stadium at half-time or after the match. There are some amazing prizes on offer including a chance to be coached by members of the Leinster squad.

Tickets sales for Saturday's game have now passed the 41,500 mark and are on sale ONLINE HERE, the Leinster Rugby Store (Donnybrook), Spar (Donnybrook), Active Sports (Blackrock) as well as Ticketmaster outlets nationwide. Tickets are available from €20.

Interesting that in the Leinster A game Jordan Coughlin played 12 again. Is he a backrow or a centre at this stage????

Hes predominatly a centre now i think. He played backrow a few weeks ago but i think that was to fill in for injuries.

Golden wrote:Hes predominatly a centre now i think. He played backrow a few weeks ago but i think that was to fill in for injuries.

Interesting. he was orignally a back row player who stepped into centre for a preseason match v Northampton at Schmidt's request. Didnt realise that he had been given more games at centre since until now.