Foley named Ireland Wolfhounds boss

Munster's Anthony Foley and Ulster's Neil Doak have been named as the coaching ticket for the O2 Ireland Wolfhounds, who take on the England Saxons at Kingsholm on 25th January, 2014.

Foley, the Munster Rugby Forwards Coach, is installed as Head Coach while Doak, Ulster Rugby's Backs Coach, will act as Assistant Coach. Joe Miles from Malone RFC is named asTeam Manager.

Ireland Head Coach, Joe Schmidt, commented, "The appointment of Anthony and Neil provides continuity and recognises the positive contribution they made on the North American tour earlier this year.
"The national coaching team are looking forward to working closely with Anthony and Neil in January.”

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I think it's good to see a pushing of irish coaching talent. Love the NZ guys and what they have done for rugby in Ireland, but post-Schmidt would be great to have an Irish, Irish coach.

Who would it be though?
O'Shea
Jackman
McCall
Foley
anyone else?

Not sure I would be too keen on any of them.

Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

wolfball wrote: post-Schmidt would be great to have an Irish, Irish coach.

Nationality wouldn't factor into it for me - either way.  

Meaning the only reason I am and have been a fan of SH coaches in Ireland (specifically Kiwi, Australian ones) is that they coach the game I certainly feel Irish players are suited to - mobile, running, instinctive, attacking, creative rugby with players through the team (forwards and backs) capable of joining such a game.... not specifically the more traditional NH plodding approach of set-piece perfection step by step grinding out grim wins.

I'd certainly welcome an Irish Irish coach, yes; but he'd have to have a CV that proved to me he coaches a Modern Modern game

The problem is I still think that, for the forseeable future, Kiwi/Aussie coaches will do that job better and more naturally than any Irish coach we might unearth in the nearhand future.

Plus - I certainly wouldn't want anymore 'figurehead' coaches that only perform Director duties and leave the coaching work to others.  We don't need that extra strand in our structure simply to try to pretend we have an Irish head coach.  Whoever commands the training ground should always be head coach in my opinion - anything less is an insult to the working coaches.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

Splurge on the cash and try both?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

Would much prefer a wolfhounds team.

Why Guns? To play one game a year against the Saxons which is usually a very poor game.

Young players would get far, far better experience from being on the sevens circuit. We are really missing out on all the fun.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Why Guns? To play one game a year against the Saxons which is usually a very poor game.

Young players would get far, far better experience from being on the sevens circuit. We are really missing out on all the fun.

If that's all they play then the money saved wouldn't even begin to fund a 7's team.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

No. I would hate to see a sevens team full stop. Forcing players to declare which political entity they hold allegiance to is far removed from the traditional all-inclusive, all-island entity that is Ireland rugby - and for what?

Even if the IRFU had the money to support an additional 12 players (plus full-time coaches and hangers-on) while they jet around the globe, surely it would be far better spent on Connacht, and might actually increase the depth of Irish XV rugby? Sevens is as far removed from fifteen man rugby as League is from Union.

The Great Aukster wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

No. I would hate to see a sevens team full stop. Forcing players to declare which political entity they hold allegiance to is far removed from the traditional all-inclusive, all-island entity that is Ireland rugby - and for what?

Even if the IRFU had the money to support an additional 12 players (plus full-time coaches and hangers-on) while they jet around the globe, surely it would be far better spent on Connacht, and might actually increase the depth of Irish XV rugby? Sevens is as far removed from fifteen man rugby as League is from Union.

Therein lies the problem...politics, a flag and a song (in the unlikely event we won). Are GB entering a team? Same problem surely

The Great Aukster wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

No. I would hate to see a sevens team full stop. Forcing players to declare which political entity they hold allegiance to is far removed from the traditional all-inclusive, all-island entity that is Ireland rugby - and for what?

Even if the IRFU had the money to support an additional 12 players (plus full-time coaches and hangers-on) while they jet around the globe, surely it would be far better spent on Connacht, and might actually increase the depth of Irish XV rugby? Sevens is as far removed from fifteen man rugby as League is from Union.

And is it an absolute requirement in 7s to have well................ to have what? A team Ireland can't exist in a 7s context even though a team Ireland exists in a 15 context and they're both administered by IRB? It would have to be two teams? Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland?

Ireland Women's 7s team aiming to get to the Olympics! I'm sure there will be a few northerners in it.

Don't think a man's team would qualify - too much competition now.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/30020.php

and yes, there are at least 2 from NI in the squad:

10. Ashleigh Baxter (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
11. Laura O’Mahony (Tralee/Munster)
12. Nicole Caughey (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)

The Great Aukster wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

No. I would hate to see a sevens team full stop. Forcing players to declare which political entity they hold allegiance to is far removed from the traditional all-inclusive, all-island entity that is Ireland rugby - and for what?

Even if the IRFU had the money to support an additional 12 players (plus full-time coaches and hangers-on) while they jet around the globe, surely it would be far better spent on Connacht, and might actually increase the depth of Irish XV rugby? Sevens is as far removed from fifteen man rugby as League is from Union.

This. Even if they gave us (Connacht) some money for flu vaccines I'd be happy. When I lived in Scotland I played sevens and also went to the Edinburgh sevens every year. Its a great larf don't get me wrong. But that's all it is. The key skills of 15s such as the breakdown and awareness of space are missing in 7s who have all the room to run in the world and rarely compete the breakdown.

wolfball wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

No. I would hate to see a sevens team full stop. Forcing players to declare which political entity they hold allegiance to is far removed from the traditional all-inclusive, all-island entity that is Ireland rugby - and for what?

Even if the IRFU had the money to support an additional 12 players (plus full-time coaches and hangers-on) while they jet around the globe, surely it would be far better spent on Connacht, and might actually increase the depth of Irish XV rugby? Sevens is as far removed from fifteen man rugby as League is from Union.

This. Even if they gave us (Connacht) some money for flu vaccines I'd be happy. When I lived in Scotland I played sevens and also went to the Edinburgh sevens every year. Its a great larf don't get me wrong. But that's all it is. The key skills of 15s such as the breakdown and awareness of space are missing in 7s who have all the room to run in the world and rarely compete the breakdown.

Yes, I'd agree that it's not exactly going to prepare players for the tougher assignments in the 15 game. But does it not sharpen instincts to run and to evade?

I'm sure NZ would disagree as they have seen many, many players go from sevens to getting caps with the ABs.

Of course sevens helps greatly with the development of players. If we sent guys like Macken and Reid to play it they may actually go learn how to tackle and pass, out there as there is no hiding on a sevens team.

SecretFly wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

Splurge on the cash and try both?

I concur.

Not sure why a 7's team would provide more political problems that the XV man game?

Theoretically there is nothing stopping anyone from NI declaring for a GB&NI team regardless of Ireland entering a team - in fact surely the incentive to do so would be greater if a GB team provided the only opportunity to play in the Olympics?

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

Splurge on the cash and try both?

I concur.

Not sure why a 7's team would provide more political problems that the XV man game?

Theoretically there is nothing stopping anyone from NI declaring for a GB&NI team regardless of Ireland entering a team - in fact surely the incentive to do so would be greater if a GB team provided the only opportunity to play in the Olympics?

The IRB Sevens series don't allow conglomerate teams to enter, the Olympics don't allow non-sovereign states. So someone playing for Ireland at the Olympics is representing the 26 county sovereign version of Ireland (including flag and song as ME highlighted). That's fine as long as the IRFU don't feel the need to protect the investment in young players by making that backing conditional on a political declaration.

We've already seen the bile directed towards Rory McIlroy at the suggestion he may choose to play for GB&NI at the Olympics and that's in an individual sport. How could a NI player play with Ireland u20 in the JWC and then potentially against Ireland in the Olympics? Creating a Sevens team raises the possibility to divide rugby in NI and by extension in the Test team that represents 32 counties.

How can the IRB not allow conglomerate teams when they already have one - named Ireland?

And if we were to have an Ireland 7s team - who the hell cares that the Olympics would be off our agenda?

So what?  The Olympics happens every four years - a lot of 7s games happen in the interval.  If 7s teaches players certain tricks and gives them certain skill-sets and then we could unearth even three or four to bring into the Provinces and the Irish team, would anyone really still say "But yeah, but we can't play in the Olympics so let's disband again"

The more people bow to this increasingly grotesque 'sporting circus called the Olympics, the more I'm coming to hate the very concept.   Countries going into deep political depression because their nation got less silver medals than their neighbour.  It's getting ridiculous.

I think that players from Northern Ireland are very unlikely to play in a GB sevens team come the Olympics. England, Scotland and Wales all have specialist sevens programs whereas ours is an afterthought. So there's a large pool of sevens specialists already there that doesn't include guys from around here- all our best players are tied up on provincial contracts anyway. All our talent is funneled towards the 15-man game and if they are smart they will be looking to pick players with extensive sevens experience. PLUS the British Olympics people are likely to only work with the Unions under their jurisdiction, not the IRFU.

We're likely to see a similar situation as in Boxing, where the Irish boxing team gets first pick up here and NI is ignored by British selectors. Northern Ireland falls under the jurisdiction of Boxing Ireland and boxers aren't considered for Team GB unless they are willing to move to Britain full time. This new report into sectarianism in boxing in NI recommends that NI boxers become eligible for Britain in the Olympics, but even so- I can't see the other three unions wanting to step on the toes of the IRFU.

Notch wrote:I think that players from Northern Ireland are very unlikely to play in a GB sevens team come the Olympics. England, Scotland and Wales all have specialist sevens programs whereas ours is an afterthought. So there's a large pool of sevens specialists already there that doesn't include guys from around here- all our best players are tied up on provincial contracts anyway. All our talent is funneled towards the 15-man game and if they are smart they will be looking to pick players with extensive sevens experience. PLUS the British Olympics people are likely to only work with the Unions under their jurisdiction, not the IRFU.

We're likely to see a similar situation as in Boxing, where the Irish boxing team gets first pick up here and NI is ignored by British selectors.

What about my idea that we kill the need for the Olympics stone dead? Why don't we just say to ourselves (IRFU) we'll organise a team to play in events outside the Olympic sphere - thus giving our players an avenue in that sport, thus honing skills the English, welsh and Scottish hone, thus having the ability to bring most promising players back into Provincial and therefore helping ireland advance in the 15 game?

Do we need to worry about the Olympics? It's just a reason for people to say no to the development of a 7s team - a pretty weak reason in my book.

Well, if we are going to have a Sevens team full time we might as well send them to the Olympics too. I would say the Sevens team would operate exactly on the same basis as the current team and include players from the entire island. I can't see any controversy arising from that within the Irish rugby world, outside stirrers may stir but they always do anyway.

I'd love a Sevens team, in an ideal world, but the Heineken Cup and now the Pro12 (bloody Welsh) are facing an uncertain future and the French are driving wage inflation right across Europe so the money needed to run it has never been more needed by our real rugby sides.

The Great Aukster wrote:

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can we get rid of the wolfhounds team to make a sevens team?

Splurge on the cash and try both?

I concur.

Not sure why a 7's team would provide more political problems that the XV man game?

Theoretically there is nothing stopping anyone from NI declaring for a GB&NI team regardless of Ireland entering a team - in fact surely the incentive to do so would be greater if a GB team provided the only opportunity to play in the Olympics?

The IRB Sevens series don't allow conglomerate teams to enter, the Olympics don't allow non-sovereign states. So someone playing for Ireland at the Olympics is representing the 26 county sovereign version of Ireland (including flag and song as ME highlighted). That's fine as long as the IRFU don't feel the need to protect the investment in young players by making that backing conditional on a political declaration.

We've already seen the bile directed towards Rory McIlroy at the suggestion he may choose to play for GB&NI at the Olympics and that's in an individual sport. How could a NI player play with Ireland u20 in the JWC and then potentially against Ireland in the Olympics? Creating a Sevens team raises the possibility to divide rugby in NI and by extension in the Test team that represents 32 counties.

I'm not dismissing that Aukster but there needs to be a perspective here and I think there's a bit of sensationalism around all this, probably fuelled a bit by the McIlroy saga.

Its a long time since Wayne McCullough carried the Irish flag so I'd thought we'd moved past this.

For me the Olympics is a sporting event involving athletes, not a referendum on the constitutional status of NI. I don't think our rugby players should be denied the chance to compete on an Olympic stage because of political sensitivities.

From a pragmatic perspective I'd imagine the matter is as simple as a gentleman's agreement between the home Unions that team GB don't select any of the Irish based players who fall under the IRFUs jurisdiction - who as you say have made significant investment in.

Could NI enter a team in the commonwealth games? I don't see why not or at least why these possibilities be explored.

Yeh Notch..but the Olympics is the stalling point... it's the very stalling point as it wouldn't be inclined to accept an Ireland team.  And in reality, I would be inclined to agree with them as that event is getting much too complicated as it is.  Having a GB&NI team, an Ireland (Republic) team for all the athletic stuff and so on and then having a GB team and a Ireland team for 7s?................  

I just don't value the Olympics as much as other people do when it comes to sports that have already established themselves outside the movement.

Dont France, Italy and Scotland have A teams. Why dont we ever play them anymore?

Nah Fly, I think you'd just have an Ireland team the same as Boxing. Whats the problem? It's the same team but a different flag and anthem as per what the IOC want. That's all it would take. A different emblem on the front of the jersey, a different flag and anthem and in every other respect our Sevens team would be unchanged. Much more work to do for the other home unions who have to make three teams go into one. All the IRFU has to do is order some different gear.

There's no issues over eligibility. There are more NI athletes that compete in the Olympics than there are NI athletes that compete for GB because its easier to get in.

Why doesn't the Irish olympic team go the rugby way and repersent the whole of Ireland. Infact why don't all sports in Ireland do the same given the success of it with the rugby team.

The GB team repersents one nation and thats England. When you think of GB you think of England and thats it.

There's no real need for them to do so LF4L, sure any athlete from Northern Ireland who wants to represent the Irish Olympic team can anyway. Whats to be gained from changing the status quo except starting a ballache of a row?

There will be a bit of a row at first then they will eventually get over it. I think sports is a great way to unite the country.

It's not a decision that can be taken unilaterally by any sporting body south of the border. It would have to involve local politicians, various sporting bodies in Britain and the IOC. All of which will cause a hell of a lot of wrangling.

Over the years, some NI athletes have been prevented from competing for Ireland in the Olympics by various IOC rulings and political pressure from Britain. Ireland actually boycotted the 1936 games in protest at NI athletes not being allowed to represent Ireland- given that was the infamous 'Nazi' games it was the right boycott for the wrong reasons in hindsight I suppose.

My point is that NI athletes were eventually granted the right to compete for Ireland because of our citizenship rights under Irish law, even though we're adjudged to be in a different country we have the right to Irish citizenship and all he rights that go with it. Similarly, we have the right to British citizenship so Ireland can't stop athletes from NI representing Britain probably ever- even in a hypothetical United Ireland, the right to UK citizenship for people in NI is in the Good Friday Agreement.