5th Ashes Test, Sydney

January 3-7, Sydney Cricket Ground
Start time 1030 (2330 GMT)

Australia:
CJL Rogers, DA Warner, SR Watson, MJ Clarke*, SPD Smith, GJ Bailey, BJ Haddin†, MG Johnson, PM Siddle, RJ Harris, NM Lyon

England:
AN Cook*, MA Carberry, IR Bell, KP Pietersen, GS Ballance, BA Stokes, JM Bairstow†, SG Borthwick, SCJ Broad, JM Anderson, WB Rankin


The grassy SCG pitch should offer some assistance for the pace bowlers early on. Some grip there for the spinners too. It's not going to be too hot and there is the chance of a few showers over the 5 days - but nothing too substantial. Some cloud cover and high humidity though.

OMG......so Eng will drop Carberry   

as if not planning the sick No.3 scenario was not enough......
they now want to be exposed not having a reserve opener...and introduce another new No.3   

Curses of one Compton and their bad Karma in dealing with this guy is coming back to haunt them

Didn't see your thread on this LB - so I posted mine. Could kindly delete mine for me?

Thank gawd that England are likely to be dropping Carberry - never want him picked in the first place, and has little future in the England team. Quite why he was picked I have no idea, especially when it seems like that England are going back to what they should have done from the beginning and pick Root at opener. Which is where he belongs and will hopefully stay. The selectors have made a right mess of the opening slot - Compton, Root, Carberry, back to Root. Possibly on to Robson in the near-future.

Bell at 3? Good, keep him there for a while.

Ballance getting a go? Fantastic. I also felt he should have been picked from the start, although at least Stokes has shown that he's got good potential.

Borthwick replacing Swann? It's the logical option, and will hopefully replicate what England do this summer.

Rankin the 3rd seamer? Yeah, why not!

At any rate, hopefully the 4th test was the last we've seen of Monty Panesar and Michael Carberry in an England shirt. At leats that would point to building for the future.

4-1, we're gonna lose 4-1.

kingraf wrote:Didn't see your thread on this LB - so I posted mine. Could kindly delete mine for me?

Done. That was quite a nice read!

On some more peripheral issues:

Richie Benaud probably won't be well enough to make it to the commentary box. Such a shame. He's still recovering at home in Coogee.

The new Bradman / M.A. Noble stand roof is incomplete... apparently high winds delayed the construction programme. All the seats are in though and they will be occupied by spectators for the Ashes Test. There's a great new bar area linked to the Members Stand. Capacity is around 48,000 now.

I miss Bernaud - beats Shane Warne discussing the Christmas party he hosted for the commentators.

Root as an opener ...if hes not comfortable at 3 whats the thinking he can do it at 2? Ditto Bell who only for a very brief stint coped with playing 3. Now hes expected to do it when completely shot?
Bairstow keeping ...this suggests that either Prior is still scrambled or they still seriously believe that Bairstow is a competent batsman and capable of becoming a competent wicket keeper.
Borthwick over Tredwell... is that a pick of the attacking spinner of a pick of the " well he can bat a bit" spinner? Tredwell is the better bowler of the two.
Rankin over Finn? Hmm. Leaves the attack looking pretty samey, still no x factor. Yeah theres a leg spinner but Borthwick is no Warne.

Looking to the future : good. Prospects for this game : bad.

Doesn't matter much what England do in terms of selection...as long as they are losing everything will be criticized.

If they kept the team substantially the same it would be stubborn , conservative...

New blood is desperate , crazy gamble , etc.

Given how the tour has gone hard to see how it can get worse ?

A case can be made for keeping Carberry and dropping Root , but they surely cannot keep them both - certainly not together at the top of the order. The bold move might be KP to number three...I normally wouldn't recommend that , but in the present circumstances...
Borthwick can bat at least , so it makes sense to play him as number eight bat and spinner , without expecting too much with the ball : neither Swann nor Panesar has threatened anything on this trip so how much worse could he be anyway ? Four seamers (and Root) so he has cover.
Rankin ? You tell me : I haven't been watching the net sessions. Same Ballance : all the batsmen have "underperformed" , to be kind. Will he do any better ? Maybe not , and I wouldn't really want to see him picked just on a whim. But if they are set on putting Root back to opener , they may feel Carberry doesn't fit anywhere else.

Of course it could be a smokescreen and we will see Finn and Tredwell   

Whatever : hope they can get a consolation win , not least for the loyal travelling fans...

This Australian team don't do consolations... or, at least, I think they'll find it hard to do so.  

Linebreaker wrote:This Australian team don't do consolations... or, at least, I think they'll find it hard to do so.  

Ha...not asking for a gift , lb...Christmas was last week   

But Haddin must be due for a duck...

or 200.   

Going to have to get out there early on Saturday morning to slap the sticker on the seat.

We love dead rubbers....

Not going Friday then , lb ?

Second day is usually a good one...was decisive in the first three Tests...and I thought it was going to be decisive again in Melbourne...alas   

Hope you see a good day...

Ballance isnt being picked just on a whim, hes being picked because hes seen as next in line for making people ask "what ever happened to James Taylor?"
What we are seeing here is essentially the side England seem to believe is the future, just a few of them getting bumped up prematurely ( Borthwick, Root to open notably).

Unless Flower goes I doubt the outcome of this game will change the things dramatically. We may see the brief resurfacing of Prior or even Trott over the summer to help tick things along but all the indications are that England still see Bairstow as a future keeper and Root as a top 3 batsman despite both players records to date in those roles.

This really nails their colours to the mast. Englands future is a top 3 incapable of scoring runs, bits and pieces middle order, and a bunch of has beens trading off former glories and injury excuses.
A bit like Australia 4 years ago.

alfie wrote:Not going Friday then , lb ?

Second day is usually a good one...was decisive in the first three Tests...and I thought it was going to be decisive again in Melbourne...alas   

Hope you see a good day...

Thanks Alfie. I have to work tomorrow but will be in touch with the match as much as possible.
Although it's for an important cause... I'm not into the wearing pink thing which is on the 3rd day - Sunday.

I actually think that Boyd Rankin will do well on the SCG track if selected.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Ballance isnt being picked just on a whim, hes being picked because hes seen as next in line for making people ask "what ever happened to James Taylor?"
What we are seeing here is essentially the side England seem to believe is the future, just a few of them getting bumped up prematurely ( Borthwick, Root to open notably).

Unless Flower goes I doubt the outcome of this game will change the things dramatically. We may see the brief resurfacing of Prior or even Trott over the summer to help tick things along but all the indications are that England still see Bairstow as a  future keeper and Root as a top 3 batsman despite both players records to date in those roles.

This really nails their colours to the mast. Englands future is a top 3 incapable of scoring runs, bits and pieces middle order, and a bunch of has beens trading off former glories and injury excuses.
A bit like Australia 4 years ago.

Who else would you suggest?

Top England Runscorers:

KP - 285
Carberry - 238
Cook - 232
Bell - 217

Don't think Carberry should be dropped, although i agree his last innings wasn't great.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Ballance isnt being picked just on a whim, hes being picked because hes seen as next in line for making people ask "what ever happened to James Taylor?"
What we are seeing here is essentially the side England seem to believe is the future, just a few of them getting bumped up prematurely ( Borthwick, Root to open notably).

Unless Flower goes I doubt the outcome of this game will change the things dramatically. We may see the brief resurfacing of Prior or even Trott over the summer to help tick things along but all the indications are that England still see Bairstow as a  future keeper and Root as a top 3 batsman despite both players records to date in those roles.

This really nails their colours to the mast. Englands future is a top 3 incapable of scoring runs, bits and pieces middle order, and a bunch of has beens trading off former glories and injury excuses.
A bit like Australia 4 years ago.

Who else would you suggest?

Moving to New Zealand.

Or grinning and bearing it. Write off your expectations for this game and the early part of next summer and accept that England are playing players who are not the finished article in roles they arent entirely comfortable with, and that it wouldnt be a bad thing if Trott/Prior did make themselves available for the summer.
Finally pray that KP doesnt quit just yet.

Think Tredwell getting mauled by the Aussies last summer has counted very strongly against him too. Not sure Borthwick's leggies are any better than Steve Smith's though. I've seen him bowl live a couple of times, admittedly not this summer, and he was fairly poor both times. Also, batting him at 8 seems like a waste but dropping JB below him effectively says we've picked you but don't really think you're good enough Jonny. Lack of better options makes this a necessary gamble.

Ballance deserves a chance, although I've been informed he looked very, very scratchy in his 50 at Alice Springs, and it has to be for Carberry or Root (Cook, KP, Bell and Stokes are locked in for this Test). You can argue that Root should be dropped, but he is still young and at least has got big scores in Test cricket before. Might have been better to take him out of the firing line for now.

Rankin for Bresnan is expected. Bresnan hasn't been particularly threatening and Rankin is 'unknown' quantity of the three tall quicks. And you think this change makes Borthwick for Panesar necessary too, to avoid the long tail. Although, it could be argued the tail starts at 1 whatever.

jimbohammers wrote:Top England Runscorers:

KP - 285
Carberry - 238
Cook - 232
Bell - 217

Don't think Carberry should be dropped, although i agree his last innings wasn't great.

Yes Carberry has scored runs but his strike rate has dropped like a stone as the series has gone on and he has got bogged down. Now if England want to look at Ballance he is the logical choice to miss out as he is NOT one for the future whereas Root is seen as such, KP has improved in this series and Bell is evidently part of future plans as is Cook obviously.

Borthwick will play IMO, and i look forward to seeing him play, hopefully he has a cracking game! If selected, at the expense of Bresnan IMO

I think there's a balance to be drawn between now looking to the future and setting out to win this Test.

Test cricket is a massive step up from the county game. As appears likely to be the case, to expect three to do so at the same time and into a losing team is a massive ask.

Assuming Borthwick plays and following JD's post, I agree it seems odd for him to apparently bat at 8 when he's been a successful number 3 this season for Durham, normally 2 places above Stokes. I do fear the selectors are trying too hard to categorise him as a leg spin bowler who can bat a bit when it's actually the other way round.

guildfordbat wrote:I think there's a balance to be drawn between now looking to the future and setting out to win this Test.

Test cricket is a massive step up from the county game. As appears likely to be the case, to expect three to do so at the same time and into a losing team is a massive ask.

Assuming Borthwick plays and following JD's post, I agree it seems odd for him to apparently bat at 8 when he's been a successful number 3 this season for Durham, normally 2 places above Stokes. I do fear the selectors are trying too hard to categorise him as a leg spin bowler who can bat a bit when it's actually the other way round.

This...

This has always been a major problem when it came to England. I remember when Broad came onto the scene that they tried to make him an allrounder, the perfect replacement for Flintoff. It was only when they started focusing on Broad as a pure bowler (leaving the batting behind) that he started to have good returns.

All that said, I do feel that England must have at least one performance in them this series...

Maybe Borthwick's being picked to bat at 3?

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Maybe Borthwick's being picked to bat at 3?

  

1022 runs at 39.31 is a decent return in your first real season at 3, especially playing your home games at Durham... Maybe it is us and the media who are trying to pigeonhole Borthwick as a spinner and Cook and Flower have seen him as a number 3 all along?!   

Would certainly satisfy KP_Fan's desire for Flower to take a risk!   

Do we actually know the selections or are we just going by (usually but not always reliable) media hearsay?

I agree with guildford's post: I also think even when building for the future the key is to surround your better youngsters with experienced players to help them along.

I am not convinced by Root as a top order player, but England it seems are, so should give him a year or two there (and not move him around again after a handful of matches). I share PSW's concerns on Bell at 3, and would like to see KP move up there where he can grab the game by the scruff. Also, it would be a way of playing on his ego in a positive way, say to him "go on then, you're our main man, show us what you can do". Then I'd play Ballance at 4 with Bell at 5 - surround Ballance with your two best middle-order players; give him a chance to show what he can do.

Not sure about Bairstow. I'm more concerned about his batting actually - his keeping is below par for now, but wasn't as bad as has been made out, and I believe that in time he can become a more than competent keeper (although whether test cricket is the right place for this "in time" to happen). With the bat though? Are we ok with him averaging 30? Because I can't see it being much more than that: severe issues against the short ball, pace bowling, quality spin... a bit reminiscent of Phil Hughes...

The one guy who I wouldn't pick is Borthwick at this stage. I just think if the Australians get after him as they will try to, the damage done outweighs the possible benefits. I do think he has talent, but comparisons with Steve Smith are not a million miles off, and leg-spin is very very hard. I think Tredwell should be asked to fill in until Borthwick or another is ready.

Rankin? Meh, why not have a look at him I suppose... in the medium term England need to start thinking about who is going to replace Anderson in a couple of years or so as the attack leader. I can't see Rankin doing that, so for me there is no time like the present. Unless Finn's confidence is so shot that they think it would do him more harm than good at the moment. The only other guys I can see filling Jimmy's shoes would be Meaker (has a bit about him) or as a dark horse James Harris (who has all the attributes, he really does). Whether someone else emerges over the next couple of years remains to be seen.

For Australia I would be tempted to have a look at Alex Doolan. If Watson is passed fit and can bowl, then stick him in at 6 (and keep Watson at 3 - although I'm not a fan, he deserves a run there, and his innings in the run chase hasn't received enough credit IMO, there was plenty of pressure when he first came in, he did well). Bailey will go to South Africa and probably start there, but it does no harm to give Doolan a go in case he continues his troubles over there.

Ballance at 4 like Mike said with KP up to 3 and Bell at 5. Clever move as he will be batting with one of the two at some stage.

However, here's my left field suggestion, Bell up to open, Root to 5. Bell I believe have what it takes to open, and is a nice attacking option in contrast to Cook. Maybe having Bell with Cook will help his batting confidence somewhat.

Tredwell for Panesar. Not convinced Borthwick is a full time spinner, so Tredwell to come in as a more experienced cricketer and I believe he's quite a decent bowler.

Finn is a must. I fail to believe he is as out of sorts as the selectors make out. Give him this test and say to him the pressure is off, just go all out and be our wicket taker. 4 over bursts, tell him to bowl flat out.

I'd also bring Prior back in, i'm not convinced by Bairstow, guy can't play fast bowling and for me isn't capable of averaging near or over 40 in test cricket.

1. cook
2. bell
3. kp
4. ballance
5. root
6. stokes
7. prior
8. broad
9. tredwell
10. anderson
11. finn

Mike Selig wrote:Do we actually know the selections or are we just going by (usually but not always reliable) media hearsay?
.

Just media hearsay as far as I'm aware. It does seem remarkably consistent which appears to give it credibility although that of course may just be down to no one having the nerve to break camp.

guildfordbat wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Do we actually know the selections or are we just going by (usually but not always reliable) media hearsay?
.

Just media hearsay as far as I'm aware. It does seem remarkably consistent which appears to give it credibility although that of course may just be down to no one having the nerve to break camp.

I am reminded of when Tremlett was (heavily, and as it turns out, correctly) tipped to play the first test. When the media seems collectively convinced of something, it is usually because they are well informed and they have it right. Ever so occasionally it is a case of "self-fulfilling" predictions, by which I mean someone comes out with a theory quoting (or misquoting as the case is, or reading too much into the vague words of a) reliable source, a close colleague from a different paper/website gets wind of it and immediately agrees, and everyone else follows suit so as not to look like their sources are less good than their rivals...

I should add as a PS to my previous post that I don't believe England will go with KP at 3 (or the even more adventurous move of Bell as an opener, from Liam, which I believe has merit for precisely the reasons he says; plus, if we all think Bell can bat 3, then surely he can open?).

Agree Mike the selections I suggested I know won't happen in a million years but why not when we're 4-0 and everything we've tried so far has failed miserably.

On Pietersen at 3 (or far more likely not, as per Mike's most recent post), I've had the feeling for some time that there's often a reluctance of the best and most experienced batsmen to go in first wicket down.

Viv Richards is often thought of as the greatest ever number 3 but for the second half of his Test career he normally batted at 4 or lower. Similarly, Ponting went from a 3 to a 4 and stayed there for the conclusion of his Test career. I believe that Tendulkar steadfastedly remained at 4 and never batted at 3.

Even when Ponting played briefly for Surrey last season, he always batted at 4 despite most supporters wanting him at the crease earlier to have the maximum opportunity to shape the innings. Exactly the same with Pietersen on the odd occasion in the last couple of years when he's turned out for Surrey.

Can't really explain it. Perhaps a desire to avoid the opening bowlers first time out?

To be fair, Ponting went in at 3 most of his career (and, I believe, all of his Australian career when he was captain) - started at 6, and moved down to 4 once his reflexes had started to go admittedly. I did however think it odd he wasn't batting for 3 for Surrey last year.

Oh, and there is surely only one "greatest ever number 3" and it ain't Richards...

Apart from that, you could add Lara to the list as well. Thorpe was England's best player during much of the 90s/early 00s, but didn't ever move up the order either...

Well every top player is susceptable to the swinging new ball and i'm sure most sides are scared of losing their best player so early on. However, I think KP would benefit, like Bell, of coming to the crease against the harder ball as it suits their shot playing game. Never easy coming in when the ball isn't quite coming onto the bat so your scratching around early on, or if the spinner is on and your nudging and blocking without getting any fluency to your game. Couple of early fours against the new ball can get your confidence up and puts the pressure on the bowlers.

Mike Selig wrote:

Oh, and there is surely only one "greatest ever number 3" and it ain't Richards...

.

Certainly. I had meant to confine it to my viewing time which doesn't go back quite so far!

I can say this much : Ian bell is not the worlds bet number 3.

Not does his current form suggest he'a in anywy ready to be shunted up any more than roots does.

If this selection is made it's about saying to players look we know this tour is a disaster but we still think you can do this web your heads right.
Surely noone can honestly think root who has never made runs at 3 is suddenly going to flourish as an opener the next week?

Same goes for bairstow if he retains his palm for any reason other than prior being an absolute wreck.

In a way the kids are in a no lose situation. Everyone expects it to be another car crash so if they fail no big shakes. If one of them gets lucky or australia relax then they can become the hero of the world till the next game like an English Agar.

What is to be gained from making no changes - win or lose?  Nothing much. If they win it will mean the whitewash has been avoided but the side will still be full of ageing players nearing the end of their careers with people still wondering what other players waiting for their chance can do.

What can be gained from giving new mostly younger players their chance - win or lose?  Well even if it is a loss England can assess whether the new players are close to being test cricketers or not. I mean they may lose but Ballance may do a Stokes and score a century or Borthwick gets runs and a couple of wickets or Rankin weighs in with wickets. If a new-look side wins it may encourage the selectors to ease these new batch of players into the side full-time and see rebuilding of the team under way.

Craig - I'm not aware of anyone suggesting no changes. My opinion though is that 3 Test debuts (as many professional pundits are suggesting) in the current circumstances is too many. My earlier post refers.

Whilst I like the look of Stokes and readily admit to being pleasantly surprised, I feel it's important not to go over board about his performances to date and believe that if the debutants do as well as him then we'll be fine. Admittedly I'm choosing my ammo carefully here but it should be noted that Stokes is averaging over 47 with the ball and has failed to reach 30 in five of his six Test innings.

I'm not sure why anyone would want Tredwell in the side. A very poor first class bowler, and was found out by the Aussies in the ODI's in the summer. At least Borthwick will offer with the bat if his leg spin does get some treatment.

Would prefer to see Finn over Rankin but can't say I'm too fussed either way. Same with Balance, would like to see him come in for Carberry who I don't think is the answer.

We had a bit of rain here last night. I got up early and opened the doors to get some fresh air in after it reached 37 deg C here yesterday.

As I type, Tom Parker will probably cutting the grass down to 3mm and getting the heavy roller out after that. So the green tinge will probably be less apparent but there should be some moisture under there. There will no doubt be some good bounce and carry through.

At 0735, it's 21.4 deg C, 69% humidity and winds are from the ENE (onshore) at around 13 km/h. It's sort of swirling around in an anti-clockwise direction but the bulk of it seems to be off the coast. There could be a few drops of rain during the morning but not for any extended period of time. Fine and sunny during the afternoon.

Once the teams are announced I'll update the OP.
I copied them off the ESPN site - they had "possible" next to the teams so we'll know if they were right in a few hours.

You know what. I can smell that 37 degrees hitting the grass with a tinge of moisture in the air.

Maybe it's just because I quit smoking a week ago, or maybe I've just reached terminal homesick point, maybe it's just the insidious unflinching drizzle that's afflicted us here for the last three months.

But arse to it all, I'm getting on a plane tomorrow and taking in the test in person.

See y'all

37 where I am... but probably only 29 near the coast.

I think it's sold out, GE. Might be some spare seats Days 4 and 5 if it lasts that long. Otherwise, there are a few ODIs and a T20 after this. A bit of a buzz in the air.....

Well Linebreaker, just over an hour to go. Hope you get to see a bit of the action live. All the best if you do and happy new years to you all

Cheers Nachos. I'm going out there tomorrow.   

I even bought this special new spray on Factor 50 sunscreen the other day.
I always tend to get fried even when I'm sitting in the shade - despite my tar-brush skin quality. It doesn't take much time at all for the sun to key into you. You get home - and then it's like a delayed action cooking thing overnight... culminating in mild-medium sunburn pain the next day.

Rumor is Root dropped, not Carberry. If true that's a #headsgone

Olly wrote:Rumor is Root dropped, not Carberry. If true that's a #headsgone

Manic if true.

Olly wrote:Rumor is Root dropped, not Carberry. If true that's a #headsgone

Yeah?
That is mind-boggling (if so) but then again - the kid has been struggling of late. Maybe they want to give Carberry one last dig seeing it's just about all over but I'm not sure that's the right approach either.

Starting now on Nine - the screaming introductions have begun.

Olly wrote:Rumor is Root dropped, not Carberry. If true that's a #headsgone

You have to be fricking kidding me, surely?

Nope, just looked and it appears to be true. Ballance for Root, Borthwick for Panesar and Rankin for Bresnan are the rumoured changes.

Well done Flower. Drop one of our most promising batsman to spare a man in his thirties who surely won't be playing any more after this series.

A complete and utter travesty, if true.

#flowerout #goochout

Any other selectors who backed this, get them out as well. Unless it's injury, but I don't think so.

On another note, Bell at 3 might be interesting. Hasn't played there since...2009? Maybe before. He's a much better batsman than then though - might make the slot permanent for him in this test.

Very green at the SCG as well - bowl first? If Cook wins the toss of course. Law of averages = he must!

New Caps just presented to Ballance, Rankin and Borthwick.

Caps just presented to the three debutants so I presume that's that then.

Root out of the team - the worst Ashes selection call by England since...Giles over Panesar in 2006?

Duty281 wrote:Caps just presented to the three debutants so I presume that's that then.

Root out of the team - the worst Ashes selection call by England since...Giles over Panesar in 2006?

Doesn't neccessarily mean that.
One of the three could be in for Carberry