Hitzlsperger Comes Out

Former Aston Villa, West Ham and Everton player Thomas Hitzlsperger has admitted he is gay. He joins Robbie Rodgers, Justin Fashanu and the Swedish fella as only the 4th footballer to come out.

My first reaction, as ever, is so what?

That's apparently the homophobic thing to do though.

Duty281 wrote:My first reaction, as ever, is so what?

That's apparently the homophobic thing to do though.

I think the 'so what' comes from the fact that apparently there have only been four gay footballers in the history of the game. Of course there have been more, but given that football has a problem with homophobia, why would they admit it? You may feel that people's sexuality is a private business and they shouldn't shout it, but equally they shouldn't feel the need to hide it. Players publicly acknowledging their sexuality will help this.

Was a big an of der hammer at he Villa.

Good on him. Good luck to him in his life after football.

"Coming out" ... "comes out"  seems such a weird expression - like debutante 18 year olds "coming out" and making themselves available to predator aristocrats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debutante

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:

Duty281 wrote:My first reaction, as ever, is so what?

That's apparently the homophobic thing to do though.

I think the 'so what' comes from the fact that apparently there have only been four gay footballers in the history of the game. Of course there have been more, but given that football has a problem with homophobia, why would they admit it? You may feel that people's sexuality is a private business and they shouldn't shout it, but equally they shouldn't feel the need to hide it. Players publicly acknowledging their sexuality will help this.

I just don't see what football has to do with your sexuality, and what you get up to in private.

Football is football, whether you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual, demisexual, hyposexual, or any other type that I've missed, it shouldn't have anything to do with it.

westisbest wrote:Was a big an of der hammer at he Villa.

Good on him. Good luck to him in his life after football.

Could not agree more, was always a fan of his when he was with us, if him doing this helps other players feel they can be honest about their sexuality it has to be a good decision on his part.

Just waiting for Roy Keane and Duncan Ferguson to come out now.

Anyway, do we need the tedium of gay players coming out in the press every five minutes any more than we we need to hear about heterosexual players engaging in shenanigans with busty models and WAGS every five minutes (although I feel my reluctance to hear about the latter may be borne out of nothing more than sheer jealousy). Boil it down to it's essence it's generally a news article saying that some people had sex.

Honestly couldn't care where you stick you bits and bobs fellas just as long as you stick the football in the back of the net like you're paid to do.

The thing is coming out has to be a big story, because there is just so many idiots out there who will use this to thee advantage and look to abuse Tomas if given the half. 

Coming out should be just classed as a normal thing in human life, but as i say idiots make it a big deal when it really isn't. 

Legend for doing it though, great player hope he continues his footballing success.

NickisBHAFC wrote:The thing is coming out has to be a big story, because there is just so many idiots out there who will use this to thee advantage and look to abuse Tomas if given the half. 

Coming out should be just classed as a normal thing in human life, but as i say idiots make it a big deal when it really isn't. 

Legend for doing it though, great player hope he continues his footballing success.

It's should only be a big deal though when a current player comes out, as opposed to one who has already retired, like with Hitzlsperger.

I think it's less of a big deal to a straight man, or a comfortably gay man but to young adults, young footballers who are gay, to see others around them come out will be heartening and encouraging.

Crimey wrote:I think it's less of a big deal to a straight man, or a comfortably gay man but to young adults, young footballers who are gay, to see others around them come out will be heartening and encouraging.

Well if Hitzlsberger is the masculine type, in other words not stereotypically gay, then maybe.

When Tom Daley came out it apparently encouraged a lot of young adults to come to out to their families, but...he is stereotypically gay and it didn't necessarily change the "gay" image, as it were.

Whereas if Jason Statham came out...

Crimey wrote:I think it's less of a big deal to a straight man, or a comfortably gay man but to young adults, young footballers who are gay, to see others around them come out will be heartening and encouraging.

I second this post.

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Whereas if Jason Statham came out...

Or Danny Dyer!   

Duty281 wrote:

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Whereas if Jason Statham came out...

Or Danny Dyer!   

his son came out as gay and danny dyer accepted him.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Whereas if Jason Statham came out...

Or Danny Dyer!   

his son came out as gay and danny dyer accepted him.

Then a bunch of idiots on Twitter who failed to spot the subtle difference between Danny Dyer and the character he plays in EastEnders started giving him hassle about it. He responded by posting a handy diagram which demonstrated exactly how they can roll their opinion up into a tube, lubricate it if they required and insert it into their back passages

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Whereas if Jason Statham came out...

Or Danny Dyer!   

his son came out as gay and danny dyer accepted him.

His on-screen Eastenders son (the very cute one), right?   

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Whereas if Jason Statham came out...

Or Danny Dyer!   

his son came out as gay and danny dyer accepted him.

His on-screen Eastenders son (the very cute one), right?   

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, Duty (or the beer holder)

Sound advice, Dave, sound advice.   

At the present time in football, it is necessary for men like Hitzelsperger to come out.  

Why...?  Because footballers are more than just players these days.  Their job doesn't end at tea time on Saturday.    They are almost public property and they have to do more than just play football.  They have to be PR figures for their clubs.... go to schools..... give talks and teach skills to youngsters.  They have to do community liaison with their clubs and they also have to hob-nob at social gatherings.... make after dinner speeches.... attend club functions for sponsors and the like.  

Now, on the vast majority of such occasions, they will do that solo, but on some occasions, their "significant other" is almost obliged to attend.  And this is where a major problem lies.  Do gay players attend with a woman and therefore be doing pretty much what Elton John did at Wembley in the FA Cup Final with Watford.....putting on a pretence for the world to see, whilst concealing his true self..?

Have you any idea how humiliating and degrading that is to a human being..? (let alone the woman, who is a dupe to the whole charade)   To force them into a sham display and deny who they are just to satisfy a few people's narrow minded prejudices..?

Come on.  Surely we've moved on from that in the world.  Homosexuals are no longer treated as pariahs in society... nor should they be  (nor should they ever have been).  

But football is inherently homophobic at this time.  Just go to Ipswich when they play Norwich and hear the Tractor Boys singing:  "He's gay, he's dead, he's hanging in the shed, Fashanu, Fashanu"

Pathetic, bad taste, childish behaviour, but who is going to tell them they aren't funny if the rest of us can't treat gay men with the dignity and respect that they're entitled to.  

Instead, there will be the usual apologists for bad behaviour telling us that this is just "terrace banter".  Giving succour to the idiots and perpetuating the homophobic mentality in the game by condoning rather than condemning.

As for the players, well, there needs to be a shift in mentality there, too.  Tales leak out from under the dressing room door that some players wouldn't play in the same team as a gay man because they "don't want to be checked out in the showers."  Pathetic.  That, in my opinion, is one of the most squinnying things anybody could use to defend an indefensible position.

Does anybody remember Robbie Fowler's "gay" taunt to Graeme le Saux at Stamford Bridge some years back.?   le Saux isn't homosexual by the way, but he was considered to be "different" to most players.  He didn't want to spit-roast prostitutes in seedy hotel room foursomes.  Instead, he played the piano, read broadsheet newspapers and spoke articulately in interviews.  That was enough to have him labelled as a homosexual.  What does that say about our game, let alone our society..??

There is a mentality about the game that needs to be changed, or at the very least, challenged.  By coming out, players not only show their dignity in saying  "This is who I am, and my partner is who I will be seen in public with."  If those with socially unacceptable homophobic attitudes wish to then reveal their narrow minded bigotry, they should know that they are putting themselves at risk of being condemned and ridiculed for their attitudes.

That is where we come in.  It is up to us, the decent majority to show that we accept players for their skills and that alone, and that we disapprove of the terrace fools and the changing room bigots.

Eventually, when the chants and the offensive songs die their long overdue death, then gay men won't need to challenge homophobia in the game and nobody need ever make an issue out of anything, anymore.  

I hope that day arrives sooner rather than later.  Then we can get on with just playing football.

Might also just want to add that the former Chelsea defender Alex has recently claimed that:

"God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Yves."

I never even thought that such a ridiculous, stupid and backward comment existed outside of a joke. But he's meant it in all seriousness.

Still, as Joey Barton has put it - "But it is understandable when brainwashed, religious zealots still believe in a fictional book written over 2000 yrs ago."

"To be religious extremist, you must first be extremely dumb in my opinion."

"Alex from PSG simply confirms my theory with his comments today."

I agree with Joey for once!

The Fourth Lion wrote:At the present time in football, it is necessary for men like Hitzelsperger to come out.  

Why...?  Because footballers are more than just players these days.  Their job doesn't end at tea time on Saturday.    They are almost public property and they have to do more than just play football.  They have to be PR figures for their clubs.... go to schools..... give talks and teach skills to youngsters.  They have to do community liaison with their clubs and they also have to hob-nob at social gatherings.... make after dinner speeches.... attend club functions for sponsors and the like.  

Now, on the vast majority of such occasions, they will do that solo, but on some occasions, their "significant other" is almost obliged to attend.  And this is where a major problem lies.  Do gay players attend with a woman and therefore be doing pretty much what Elton John did at Wembley in the FA Cup Final with Watford.....putting on a pretence for the world to see, whilst concealing his true self..?

Have you any idea how humiliating and degrading that is to a human being..? (let alone the woman, who is a dupe to the whole charade)   To force them into a sham display and deny who they are just to satisfy a few people's narrow minded prejudices..?

Come on.  Surely we've moved on from that in the world.  Homosexuals are no longer treated as pariahs in society... nor should they be  (nor should they ever have been).  

But football is inherently homophobic at this time.  Just go to Ipswich when they play Norwich and hear the Tractor Boys singing:  "He's gay, he's dead, he's hanging in the shed, Fashanu, Fashanu"

Pathetic, bad taste, childish behaviour, but who is going to tell them they aren't funny if the rest of us can't treat gay men with the dignity and respect that they're entitled to.  

Instead, there will be the usual apologists for bad behaviour telling us that this is just "terrace banter".  Giving succour to the idiots and perpetuating the homophobic mentality in the game by condoning rather than condemning.

As for the players, well, there needs to be a shift in mentality there, too.  Tales leak out from under the dressing room door that some players wouldn't play in the same team as a gay man because they "don't want to be checked out in the showers."  Pathetic.  That, in my opinion, is one of the most squinnying things anybody could use to defend an indefensible position.

Does anybody remember Robbie Fowler's "gay" taunt to Graeme le Saux at Stamford Bridge some years back.?   le Saux isn't homosexual by the way, but he was considered to be "different" to most players.  He didn't want to spit-roast prostitutes in seedy hotel room foursomes.  Instead, he played the piano, read broadsheet newspapers and spoke articulately in interviews.  That was enough to have him labelled as a homosexual.  What does that say about our game, let alone our society..??

There is a mentality about the game that needs to be changed, or at the very least, challenged.  By coming out, players not only show their dignity in saying  "This is who I am, and my partner is who I will be seen in public with."  If those with socially unacceptable homophobic attitudes wish to then reveal their narrow minded bigotry, they should know that they are putting themselves at risk of being condemned and ridiculed for their attitudes.

That is where we come in.  It is up to us, the decent majority to show that we accept players for their skills and that alone, and that we disapprove of the terrace fools and the changing room bigots.

Eventually, when the chants and the offensive songs die their long overdue death, then gay men won't need to challenge homophobia in the game and nobody need ever make an issue out of anything, anymore.  

I hope that day arrives sooner rather than later.  Then we can get on with just playing football.

  

The Fourth Lion wrote:At the present time in football, it is necessary for men like Hitzelsperger to come out.  

Why...?  Because footballers are more than just players these days.  Their job doesn't end at tea time on Saturday.    They are almost public property and they have to do more than just play football.  They have to be PR figures for their clubs.... go to schools..... give talks and teach skills to youngsters.  They have to do community liaison with their clubs and they also have to hob-nob at social gatherings.... make after dinner speeches.... attend club functions for sponsors and the like.  

Now, on the vast majority of such occasions, they will do that solo, but on some occasions, their "significant other" is almost obliged to attend.  And this is where a major problem lies.  Do gay players attend with a woman and therefore be doing pretty much what Elton John did at Wembley in the FA Cup Final with Watford.....putting on a pretence for the world to see, whilst concealing his true self..?

Have you any idea how humiliating and degrading that is to a human being..? (let alone the woman, who is a dupe to the whole charade)   To force them into a sham display and deny who they are just to satisfy a few people's narrow minded prejudices..?

Come on.  Surely we've moved on from that in the world.  Homosexuals are no longer treated as pariahs in society... nor should they be  (nor should they ever have been).  

But football is inherently homophobic at this time.  Just go to Ipswich when they play Norwich and hear the Tractor Boys singing:  "He's gay, he's dead, he's hanging in the shed, Fashanu, Fashanu"

Pathetic, bad taste, childish behaviour, but who is going to tell them they aren't funny if the rest of us can't treat gay men with the dignity and respect that they're entitled to.  

Instead, there will be the usual apologists for bad behaviour telling us that this is just "terrace banter".  Giving succour to the idiots and perpetuating the homophobic mentality in the game by condoning rather than condemning.

As for the players, well, there needs to be a shift in mentality there, too.  Tales leak out from under the dressing room door that some players wouldn't play in the same team as a gay man because they "don't want to be checked out in the showers."  Pathetic.  That, in my opinion, is one of the most squinnying things anybody could use to defend an indefensible position.

Does anybody remember Robbie Fowler's "gay" taunt to Graeme le Saux at Stamford Bridge some years back.?   le Saux isn't homosexual by the way, but he was considered to be "different" to most players.  He didn't want to spit-roast prostitutes in seedy hotel room foursomes.  Instead, he played the piano, read broadsheet newspapers and spoke articulately in interviews.  That was enough to have him labelled as a homosexual.  What does that say about our game, let alone our society..??

There is a mentality about the game that needs to be changed, or at the very least, challenged.  By coming out, players not only show their dignity in saying  "This is who I am, and my partner is who I will be seen in public with."  If those with socially unacceptable homophobic attitudes wish to then reveal their narrow minded bigotry, they should know that they are putting themselves at risk of being condemned and ridiculed for their attitudes.

That is where we come in.  It is up to us, the decent majority to show that we accept players for their skills and that alone, and that we disapprove of the terrace fools and the changing room bigots.

Eventually, when the chants and the offensive songs die their long overdue death, then gay men won't need to challenge homophobia in the game and nobody need ever make an issue out of anything, anymore.  

I hope that day arrives sooner rather than later.  Then we can get on with just playing football.

What a fantastic post    

im not convinced crowds are as anti gay as most make out, think its the usual one up man ship between crowds that usually ends up in some revolting songs being passed back and forth like fourth lions example between norwich and ipswich. i don't also think the majority of liverpool fans rejoice in air plane disasters or united fans rejoice in stadium tragedies. its the small minority voicing opinions normally which they know nothing about

think we've come a long long way since the 80's and are still making moves in the right direction. racism (in this country at least) is on a rapid decline due to good campaigns like kick it out and think as a society we are much more accepting of gay culture now, this will pass on to football.

im still not naive enough to know that opposition fans wouldn't abuse a player if he knew he was gay, think it would be more to affect the player than any anti gay stance. think that's the next big step now, if a current player comes out

compelling and rich wrote:im not convinced crowds are as anti gay as most make out, think its the usual one up man ship between crowds that usually ends up in some revolting songs being passed back and forth like fourth lions example between norwich and ipswich. i don't also think the majority of liverpool fans rejoice in air plane disasters or united fans rejoice in stadium tragedies. its the small minority voicing opinions normally which they know nothing about

think we've come a long long way since the 80's and are still making moves in the right direction. racism (in this country at least) is on a rapid decline due to good campaigns like kick it out and think as a society we are much more accepting of gay culture now, this will pass on to football.

im still not naive enough to know that opposition fans wouldn't abuse a player if he knew he was gay, think it would be more to affect the player than any anti gay stance. think that's the next big step now, if a current player comes out

Well, that is one way of seeing things and I think there is something in what you say, but as most of us would agree, once one group of supporters start abusing  this or that player and is seen to get away with it, it spreads through a crowd like wildfire.   It doesn't take much.  

I would much prefer it if football crowds could be trusted to "self police" themselves and that is something I would like to see encouraged.  But if that is the carrot, then the stick should be a recognised FA backed campaign similar to Kick It Out against homophobic abuse, with offenders in the crowd identified, where possible, by CCTV and arrested.  Clubs should make it clear that they have a policy of pressing charges against offenders under anti-discrimination law.

The laws exist. It would be better if the fans could sort themselves out, but if they won't then football should not be afraid to use them.

There is also the issue of homophobic players who have an issue with gay players being introduced into the team, and vent their spleen by stirring up discontent (which can affect results).  These sort of individuals can be very adept at manipulating the situation to make it appear to the fans (via Twitter and other social networking media) as though it is all the fault of the gay player.  Oh, for sure, nobody is specifically named and comments can be ambiguous and sly, but very few are in any doubt what is meant.  The gay player is then vilified.  

This is much more difficult to deal with because as things stand it is an internal disciplinary issue for the club and can lead to immense turmoil.   It is highly unlikely that any manager would penalise a star player for homophobic abuse and risk "losing the dressing room", and if the gay player made a complaint to the police (as would be his right) for discrimination in the workplace, his position in the club would become untenable.

But football has to start somewhere and an FA led campaign which is targeted at both crowds and players, and takes the issue out of the hands of club management and individual players (perhaps, for instance, by extending the definition of Bringing the Game Into Disrepute to include homophobic discrimination) is the best way forward.

Its kinda sad that this is relevant. Fair play to him though, takes some guts I imagine.

Think I'm in agreement with at least some folks on here.

While "coming out" shouldn't be a big deal in itself and certainly shouldn't have any relevance to football, the fact that homophobia has, sadly, long been a problem in football, does make it very relevant.

As others have said, if it helps take away the stigma and allow other gay players to feel more comfortable / open about their lifestyle, then it has to be a good thing.

Especially as it might give some of the more boneheaded fans pause for thought, if they realise that one of their heroes, who they've cheered for years, has actually been "playing for the other side" all that time.

The fact of the matter is, this is always going to be a problem.

There is just simply way too many idiots watching the game, every club probably has more idiots than norms. 

If a player comes out, yes there will probably be a lot of support etc. But when a game becomes tense, if the gay player does something that other fans don't like e.g. Waste time, kick the ball away, foul a player, score a goal. Instead of calling the bloke a pri*k personal chants will get shouted, or people will shout abuse at him.

Is he really going to burst into tears over being called a f*g instead of a w*nker?

Well ask a black person, if they would rather be called a wan*er than, something  that comes across as racism.

I'd say thats more down the history involved than anything Nick

NickisBHAFC wrote:The fact of the matter is, this is always going to be a problem.

There is just simply way too many idiots watching the game, every club probably has more idiots than norms. 

If a player comes out, yes there will probably be a lot of support etc. But when a game becomes tense, if the gay player does something that other fans don't like e.g. Waste time, kick the ball away, foul a player, score a goal. Instead of calling the bloke a pri*k personal chants will get shouted, or people will shout abuse at him.

Grow a thicker skin then if you can't hack it.

It's no worse to be called a fag, than it is to be called a c**t, in my estimation.

Duty281 wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:The fact of the matter is, this is always going to be a problem.

There is just simply way too many idiots watching the game, every club probably has more idiots than norms. 

If a player comes out, yes there will probably be a lot of support etc. But when a game becomes tense, if the gay player does something that other fans don't like e.g. Waste time, kick the ball away, foul a player, score a goal. Instead of calling the bloke a pri*k personal chants will get shouted, or people will shout abuse at him.

Grow a thicker skin then if you can't hack it.

It's no worse to be called a fag, than it is to be called a c**t, in my estimation.

Shut up you fa*gy c*nt!

How's it hanging anyway Duty, you feeling any better these days?

Loads better Dave, full of the joys of spring and so on.

Are you alright, I don't think you've had a rant today?

Sadly no-one's been foolish enough to say anything that pushes my buttons (and I'm really lowering my standards as to what will set me off on a tirade too)

DAVE667 wrote:Sadly no-one's been foolish enough to say anything that pushes my buttons (and I'm really lowering my standards as to what will set me off on a tirade too)

Tempting...... tempting......    

But no.  Not today.