Toulouse vs Saracens - Pool 3, 5th round

First topic message reminder :

Toulouse vs Saracens - Sunday, 12th January - 16:00


There are some big matches this weekend but the Toulouse vs Saracens has to be one of the most anticipated.

The French aristocrats vs the English league leaders. Toulouse have kept up their irresistible unbeaten home form in the top 14 with a win vs league leaders Clermont. Sarries have been in very good form in recent weeks - beating Leicester at home, both Worcester and Gloucester away.

Saracens have one of the best away records in the HC and Toulouse have one of the best home records in the HC. Sarries are also one of the only sides to beat Toulouse away albeit in 2000.

No disrespect to Connacht but I feel that Toulouse underestimated them in that HC loss in round 3. There will no complacency from Toulouse. This is a winner takes all clash (why it's more important than the other matches in my opinion). The losing side might still qualify as a best runners up but would have to face a daunting away trip to the likes of Toulon,Clermont or Leinster.


The Saracens team will have changed a little bit since their first encounter -Barritt and Bosch will be expected to start in the centres which will strengthen them defensively and offensively respectively. With the injuries to Burger and Fraser, Brown will be expected to continue to play at 7.

Rest of the team should stay unchanged but the form of the players, particularly Wigglesworth and Brits has significantly improved.

Key battle for me will be the frontrow battle. It's an area where Saracens have generally struggled vs the strongest sides. Getting parity at least will be crucial. Another important point will be how Saracens combat the physicality that Toulouse bring. Sarries are a strong side but have been outmuscled by the likes of Toulon,Clermont and Saints in big recent matches. I feel that someone on the Sarries side will need to have as much as a positive impact as Galan did for Toulouse in the Wembley encounter.

Toulouse successfully nullified the Vunipola bros last time round, Saracens will need those two to put their team on the front foot.

I believe that Fritz is injured and perhaps more crucially it doesn't seem like Galan is available (he didn't play vs Clermont).

My choice head to heads:

Census Johnston vs Mako Vunipola

Louis Picamoles vs Billy Vunipola

Clement Poitrenaud vs Brad Barritt

Thoughts?

Yappy, was that sarcasm or not re Goode? can't watch the match

This is living up to the hype. Best game so far this round. Not in a sexshy way mind. But brutal.

Fancy Toulouse to take Sarries in the last 20.

True true

ChequeredJersey wrote:Yappy, was that sarcasm or not re Goode? can't watch the match

Yea that was Sarcasm. All i've seen him do is run slowly into the first defender so far. Still waiting on what makes him this fabled second playmaker/attacking threat.

Gibson wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Sarries have a very good academy and good links with clubs. As mentioned they only have a few SA players in the team now and routinely field a majority of EQ players in the Prem and in Europe. Sometimes difficult to like but definitely not mercenaries and you have to admire some of the things they've achieved on and off the field.

So yippy, how many of their starting fifteen are from their academy? In terms of what they have achieved on or off the field, maybe you should remind us? Did mother Teresa endorse them or something?

  

naughty gibbo. don't encourage him.

sarries v toulouse is what turns you into mr hyde?

Oh and i'm having to watch it on the phone at work so not the best way to enjoy it!

it is a mark of respect to saracens that toulouse turn up so impressively against them. annoying if you are a sarries fan, but flattering nonetheless.

idiot!

wyles i mean

ME-109 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Sarries have a very good academy and good links with clubs. As mentioned they only have a few SA players in the team now and routinely field a majority of EQ players in the Prem and in Europe. Sometimes difficult to like but definitely not mercenaries and you have to admire some of the things they've achieved on and off the field.

So yippy, how many of their starting fifteen are from their academy? In terms of what they have achieved on or off the field, maybe you should remind us? Did mother Teresa endorse them or something?

15 Goode was at Bath academy but joined the Saracens academy structure
14 Ashton obvs from League then Saints
13 Wyles USA, but learnt rugby at Nottingham
12 Barritt - Natal
11 Strettle - Rotherham
10 Farrell - Sarries
9 de Kock - SA
1 M Vunipola - Bristol
2 Brits - SA
3 Johnston -Samoa then Quins
4 Borthwick - Bath, I presume
5 Hargreaves - SA
6 Wray - Sarries
7 Brown - Melrose
8 B Vunipola - Wasps

So not that many(3) but more on the bench

yappysnap wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Yappy, was that sarcasm or not re Goode? can't watch the match

Yea that was Sarcasm. All i've seen him do is run slowly into the first defender so far. Still waiting on what makes him this fabled second playmaker/attacking threat.

Ah. But Greenwood says he is the best player in England and Lancaster reckons he is his most instinctive attacking back (probably a reason for SL to NOT pick him if anything ), so you must be wrong

Sarries support at the rucks is looking dire. Too much isolation and slow ball

Scoped wrote:Sarries support at the rucks is looking dire. Too much isolation and slow ball

Unusual, usually they are pretty very strong there

The game of rugby really will be improved when Rolland retires from reffing.

Yeah, they usually are but this is an awful ruck display so far.

quinsforever wrote:

Gibson wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Sarries have a very good academy and good links with clubs. As mentioned they only have a few SA players in the team now and routinely field a majority of EQ players in the Prem and in Europe. Sometimes difficult to like but definitely not mercenaries and you have to admire some of the things they've achieved on and off the field.

So yippy, how many of their starting fifteen are from their academy? In terms of what they have achieved on or off the field, maybe you should remind us? Did mother Teresa endorse them or something?

  

naughty gibbo. don't encourage him.

sarries v toulouse is what turns you into mr hyde?

Quins mo chara, the ting about me is, nothing turns me into Mr Hide. I am what I is, and that sir, was a classic post. Cant lose with Mother Teresa.  Don't give a phhok where it comes from.  Even Cork. Or the Stoop. As long as it hits home.   

This game is compelling. Love the Heino.  So why are the English Overlords trying so hard to phookitup huh?



Mon Toulouse! Croyez!

i really wanted to see picamoles spiral it 50 yds there

did anyone else see the picture of JP Lux with massive tan watching the game? doesnt he know european rugby is in the balance?

quinsforever wrote:did anyone else see the picture of JP Lux with massive tan watching the game? doesnt he know european rugby is in the balance?

Nice.

 

in honour of toulouse

How the hell is that a penalty? Rolland is terrible

rolland is peeving me off now. that just bounced free off french legs. not even a penalty never mind a yellow. ffs. i hate complaining about refs, but rolland does make some big howlers.

He wanted to give a yellow after the warning asap. He looked for anything dubious. Terrible ref

sarries need to vary it up. run tight, run wide, chip through.

toulouse defense is packed, so play it tight for a few phases close to the ruck, then spread it.

and dont be afraid to kick/grub even when behind, because the french club defenses are over-packed knowing teams have to attack.

Awful kick and chase there

What a clueless kick. No teeth in Sarries attack

Owen Farrell is having a bit of a mare. Aimless bombs are not what they need, kicks into the corner where they have a good defensive lineout with which to apply pressure to Tolouse close to their line.

terrible. grub kicks much better option than high kicks for me

Tekori looks flippin huge

in general, awesome defense by toulouse (apart from ashton's sodt try), and great counter rucking, are the clear difference here. great effort by saracens, but awesome forward play by toulouse.

wigglesworth - that was dead, no?

Great effort from Sarries? They havent been in this at all. Clueless in attack and poor in defence. Bad kicks with poor chase and a maul that hasnt worked. This is the best side England have to offer?

Just power has one the day. Saracens to get anything out of this would have needed to be smarter at the breakdown and better with the tactical kicking. Kicking is so key- got to move these big packs around the pitch.

Very unconvincing display from Farrell.

scoped - bit harsh. toulouse have played strongly today.

Scoped wrote:How the hell is that a penalty? Rolland is terrible

Nah mate. Toulouse just have far more HC nous and Sarries have been found out at the highest level. Best team in the Jeff,  by far. Just  not good enough for Toulouse in the Heino. They know how this Cup  works.

I'm sorry if it sounds harsh but you can't be your nations top team and get outplayed and outmuscled that badly by Frances current 4th place.

What is brilliant about this is Connacht have a winner takes all game away to Saracens to stay in Europe. They are still alive in Round 6. If they bring the same spirit to that as they did to their trip to Toulouse it will be an interesting afternoon win or lose.

Given that Sarries were destroyed by Saints I'm not sure they're the best by far. The pair are out in front but I think Tigers would have been up with them if not for all the injuries in the backs.

The key thing Sarries need to do is learn how to play these terrible PRO12 refs   

Scoped wrote:I'm sorry if it sounds harsh but you can't be your nations top team and get outplayed and outmuscled that badly by Frances current 4th place.

Dont ever be sorry for speaking the truth man.  

Terrible from Sarries, no attacking edge at all, just watched 25 minutes of average box kicking.

Couldn't get a LBP where Connacht got the win, with Doussain at 10 is a really poor show

HammerofThunor wrote:Given that Sarries were destroyed by Saints I'm not sure they're the best by far. The pair are out in front but I think Tigers would have been up with them if not for all the injuries in the backs.

The key thing Sarries need to do is learn how to play these terrible PRO12 refs   

Tart.   

Scoped wrote:I'm sorry if it sounds harsh but you can't be your nations top team and get outplayed and outmuscled that badly by Frances current 4th place.

It doesnt work like that and you know it. Stop being a muppet.

Notch wrote:Just power has one the day. Saracens to get anything out of this would have needed to be smarter at the breakdown and better with the tactical kicking. Kicking is so key- got to move these big packs around the pitch.

Very unconvincing display from Farrell.

congrats on becoming a moderator notch. hope you enjoy it and its not a total ball-ache.

agree re kicking. farrell is a good 10, but doest have the on-field imagination and creativity to make me think he can be a great 10. sadly i still think johnny wilkinson has the best brain of our 10s. not sure whether tactical nous can be coached? can it?

Scoped wrote:I'm sorry if it sounds harsh but you can't be your nations top team and get outplayed and outmuscled that badly by Frances current 4th place.

As stated by Gibsons, it comes down to experience and HC know-how. Trust me Toulouse hasnt shown this level of intensity in the last T14 rounds. Also they tend to do well against teams that rely on power and agression because they can match it. They kept it simple today.

Connacht for the Amlin! Or the HC even.

Creid!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J59SFTqb7MQ

You wouldn't want to make it a ballache now would you quins?   

I thought some of his choices of kicks were poor. He has a nice passing game and is a great goal kicker, but he has no great break and he doesn't always make the right decisions.

I think England should give George Ford a few tests at least this year.

Don't start with name calling Nathan. Either discuss the point or shut up.

Sarries have been in great form in the Premiership and Toulouse have been average at best, losing to Bayonne and struggling with Bordeux. Bar an early try they never even looked close to competitive and, in my opinion, the scoreboard even flatters them a little

i say..BRING BACK WILKO FOR 2015...

Nyanga looks really like idris elba

i love that the toulouse player interview isnt english. no wonder they are upset about the new french EPS rules.