Jimmy Gopperth set to start!

Just was talking to Ian there, Gopperth been handed the 10 shirt for this Sunday. This aggrevates me to no end. People say that competition for your jersey builds a player, however IMO this rarely seems to be the case.When ROG and Sexton were dueling for the 10 spot, Sexton never played to his potential as he felt, he couldn't take charge of his players when he wasn't even sure he was gonna be starting.
Given that Gopperth is 30 and is very much on par with Ian in a lot of areas of the game, why play him?

Another great prediction from the predictor of teams. Chapeau, sir. Hope you have better luck with this prediction than some of the previous guesses about the Ireland team!   

They say in the NFL, if you've got two starting quarterbacks you don't have one. All the best teams have one guy who stamps his authority on the team, one distinct leader and general on the pitch.

This is rugby, but its similar. I think having two players pushing each other for the jersey is healthy but you have to have settled on a first choice for the big games. When it's up in the air who will start at 10 every week, it affects the whole team. It makes it harder to gel. And god knows Leinster have found it hard to gel this season, to get consistency into their game.

Paddy Jackson has stolen a march on Madigan this season, his all-round game has been better than Madigan, and I think a large part of that is because he has the confidence of the coaches at Ulster and his place is nailed on.

I don't think anyone expected Gopperth to be this good! His form at the start of the season made him undropable for the first round of the HC and Madigan has been playing catch up ever since.

I think having two 10s in this case has actually been counter productive as Madigan feels that if he makes 1 mistake ge's dropped. I don't think he has been playing his natural game this season.

Gopperth has had a better season than Madigan and truth be told but for the fact he is Irish I feel Madigan would be a comfortable 2nd choice. Please don't confuse this with saying Madigan is a poor player but maybe some added pressure (without Sexton) and a new coach has just knocked his game a wee bit

Definately not comfortably 2nd choice. Id say its still a coin flip as to who starts. Gopperth has not been as good as he was in the Ospreys game in round 1.

Standulstermen wrote:Gopperth has had a better season than Madigan and truth be told but for the fact he is Irish I feel Madigan would be a comfortable 2nd choice. Please don't confuse this with saying Madigan is a poor player but maybe some added pressure (without Sexton) and a new coach has just knocked his game a wee bit

I'm struggling to see why Madigan would be comfortable 2nd choice. His kicking percentages are 15% higher than Gopperths , he brings more flair to his game, I agree that at the minute Gopperth suits O'Connor's gameplan more, however Ian needs gametime to get his head around it.
So your saying that though Ian is a better kicker, better passer and more creative, plus younger, he still is only picked because he's Irish?
This seems like a terribly illinformed statement!

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Gopperth has had a better season than Madigan and truth be told but for the fact he is Irish I feel Madigan would be a comfortable 2nd choice. Please don't confuse this with saying Madigan is a poor player but maybe some added pressure (without Sexton) and a new coach has just knocked his game a wee bit

I'm struggling to see why Madigan would be comfortable 2nd choice. His kicking percentages are 15% higher than Gopperths , he brings more flair to his game, I agree that at the minute Gopperth suits O'Connor's gameplan more, however Ian needs gametime to get his head around it.
So your saying that though Ian is a better kicker, better passer and more creative, plus younger, he still is only picked because he's Irish?
This seems like a terribly illinformed statement!

Did I say Madigan is a better passer, more creative or a better kicker? Seems like a terribly stupid thing to say given .... Well I didn't actually say them. I have also to be bowled over by his 'flair' this season.

I asked not too long ago why Madigan was suddenly starting all the games after the AIs and was told by possibly the biggest Leinster fan on the board that they believed it was Schmidt at work. This has been also supposed by a couple of lads I'm in regular contact with down in D4 whether it is true or not. Given that it is hardly unreasonable to suggest that he would be O'Connors second choice.

Madigans kicking percentage has held up admirably during what is a difficult time in his young career but it's not stretching it to suggest that the guy who was running things for 3 of your 4 losses so far this season is second to the guy who was in charge of 1, especially seeing as Gopperths intervention last week was instrumental in it not being a fifth loss.

Why get so precious about Madigan. No one is saying he is a bad player. Just that circumstances and possibly a slight knock in confidence have effected him this season. I think he has the arrogance/confidence that all good 10's need to bounce back but if I was picking the team for the two must win Heineken games I would go with Gopperth.

Right now, Madigan isn't bringing the same confidence and verve as he was last year- he's also not managing the game as well as Gopperth.

I sense he's a confidence player and rather than writing him off, I'd like to see him being given the chance to play his way back into form. All this chopping and changing isn't great.

Gopperth has not been playing that well either recently though. Plus his place kicking has been off aswell.

Like I said earlier its a coin toss between them as to who should start. If it was me I'd go with Madigan because of his place kicking and he hasn't been near as bad as some people make out.

Yep, would like to see Madigan get a chance to play his way back into top form.

If you are Matt O'Connor you can't play a guy into form when a potential home HEC QF (even the QF itself) is on the line. If he had gone for Madigan from the start of the season then maybe things would be different.

Standulstermen wrote:If you are Matt O'Connor you can't play a guy into form when a potential home HEC QF (even the QF itself) is on the line. If he had gone for Madigan from the start of the season then maybe things would be different.

If Gopperth was playing like he was at the start of the season then yes he should absolutely be starting but he isn't simple as that . Dropping Madigan will do nothing but lower his confidence even more whereas if he sees MOC continue to trust him then he may regain his top form again.

Madigan has been solid all season and has not made any glaring mistakes. He was also our starting 10 for our best performance all season (NH away)

Standulstermen wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Gopperth has had a better season than Madigan and truth be told but for the fact he is Irish I feel Madigan would be a comfortable 2nd choice. Please don't confuse this with saying Madigan is a poor player but maybe some added pressure (without Sexton) and a new coach has just knocked his game a wee bit

I'm struggling to see why Madigan would be comfortable 2nd choice. His kicking percentages are 15% higher than Gopperths , he brings more flair to his game, I agree that at the minute Gopperth suits O'Connor's gameplan more, however Ian needs gametime to get his head around it.
So your saying that though Ian is a better kicker, better passer and more creative, plus younger, he still is only picked because he's Irish?
This seems like a terribly illinformed statement!

Did I say Madigan is a better passer, more creative or a better kicker? Seems like a terribly stupid thing to say given .... Well I didn't actually say them. I have also to be bowled over by his 'flair' this season.  

I asked not too long ago why Madigan was suddenly starting all the games after the AIs and was told by possibly the biggest Leinster fan on the board that they believed it was Schmidt at work. This has been also supposed by a couple of lads I'm in regular contact with down in D4 whether it is true or  not. Given that it is hardly unreasonable to suggest that he would be O'Connors second choice.

Madigans kicking percentage has held up admirably during what is a difficult time in his young career but it's not stretching it to suggest that the guy who was running things for 3 of your 4 losses so far this season is second to the guy who was in charge of 1, especially seeing as Gopperths intervention last week was instrumental in it not being a fifth loss.

Why get so precious about Madigan. No one is saying he is a bad player. Just that circumstances and possibly a slight knock in confidence have effected him this season. I think he has the arrogance/confidence that all good 10's need to bounce back but if I was picking the team for the two must win Heineken games I would go with Gopperth.

OK,OK, first of all, I dont know how you can say Ian is worse at kicking when he has a better kicking percentage,considering Ian's passing is his best trait, it's hard to argue that he is not at least on par with Gopperth on that.
I can tell you that Schmidt had not input on Madigans inclusion as starting 10 recently, otherwise he would be starting 10 tomorrow which is not the case.
The reason I'm "precious" of Madigan is as follows;
Ian's told me himself, not knowing whether he's the no.1 outhalf is ruining his confidence.
He's younger and has more potential(Gopperth at 30 is as good as he is gonna get).
Ian has much more experience playing in big games.Ex-HEC final 2011,2012,Amlin final-2013,Rabo final-2012,2013.
Madigan has proven himself in far more games.Whereas Gopperth seems to be still living of the first 2 games in the Heino.May I remind you that the best game Leinster played in the last 2 years, was with Ian at the reins.
Basically I just can't get my head around picking Gopperth over Ian, when the facts are Ian is more experienced,younger,more potential and a better kicker.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:If you are Matt O'Connor you can't play a guy into form when a potential home HEC QF (even the QF itself) is on the line. If he had gone for Madigan from the start of the season then maybe things would be different.

If Gopperth was playing like he was at the start of the season then yes he should absolutely be starting but he isn't simple as that . Dropping Madigan will do nothing but lower his confidence even more whereas if he sees MOC continue to trust him then he may regain his top form again.

Madigan has been solid all season and has not made any glaring mistakes. He was also our starting 10 for our best performance all season (NH away)

You say Gopperth is as good as he's going to get, but as 18 months ago he was a bit of a laughing stock at a relegated Newcastle team and their fans were desperate to offload him, and now he is possibly 1st choice at Leinster, evidence would imply that he is in fact improving as a player

Seeing as this is the first Leinster thread on the board, according to Thornley in the IT a complication in the surgery means O'Brien will be gone for more or less the season so even if/when Leinster get to the knockouts they will most likely be without him

Ahhh feck   

While the subject is worthy of debate, you have to wonder about the post.

Either the poster has never met Ian Madigan and is making up the bits he is quoting from him. Which is a bit sad.

Or worse, he is posting on an online forum, things that were told to him in confidence by a current Leinster player and Ireland international.

Hopefully for his and more importantly Madser's sake it is the former. Probably best to treat it as such anyway.

Jen presume thornley is right on sob?

HC Knockouts if we are lucky. Next season if not. (or never if he signs for Toulon)

Wonder will an injury scupper that deal (if theres truth in it).

So SOB may have played his last game for Leinster?

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Gopperth has had a better season than Madigan and truth be told but for the fact he is Irish I feel Madigan would be a comfortable 2nd choice. Please don't confuse this with saying Madigan is a poor player but maybe some added pressure (without Sexton) and a new coach has just knocked his game a wee bit

I'm struggling to see why Madigan would be comfortable 2nd choice. His kicking percentages are 15% higher than Gopperths , he brings more flair to his game, I agree that at the minute Gopperth suits O'Connor's gameplan more, however Ian needs gametime to get his head around it.
So your saying that though Ian is a better kicker, better passer and more creative, plus younger, he still is only picked because he's Irish?
This seems like a terribly illinformed statement!

Did I say Madigan is a better passer, more creative or a better kicker? Seems like a terribly stupid thing to say given .... Well I didn't actually say them. I have also to be bowled over by his 'flair' this season.  

I asked not too long ago why Madigan was suddenly starting all the games after the AIs and was told by possibly the biggest Leinster fan on the board that they believed it was Schmidt at work. This has been also supposed by a couple of lads I'm in regular contact with down in D4 whether it is true or  not. Given that it is hardly unreasonable to suggest that he would be O'Connors second choice.

Madigans kicking percentage has held up admirably during what is a difficult time in his young career but it's not stretching it to suggest that the guy who was running things for 3 of your 4 losses so far this season is second to the guy who was in charge of 1, especially seeing as Gopperths intervention last week was instrumental in it not being a fifth loss.

Why get so precious about Madigan. No one is saying he is a bad player. Just that circumstances and possibly a slight knock in confidence have effected him this season. I think he has the arrogance/confidence that all good 10's need to bounce back but if I was picking the team for the two must win Heineken games I would go with Gopperth.

OK,OK, first of all, I dont know how you can say Ian is worse at kicking when he has a better kicking percentage,considering Ian's passing is his best trait, it's hard to argue that he is not at least on par with Gopperth on that.
I can tell you that Schmidt had not input on Madigans inclusion as starting 10 recently, otherwise he would be starting 10 tomorrow which is not the case.
The reason I'm "precious" of Madigan is as follows;
Ian's told me himself, not knowing whether he's the no.1 outhalf is ruining his confidence.
He's younger and has more potential(Gopperth at 30 is as good as he is gonna get).
Ian has much more experience playing in big games.Ex-HEC final 2011,2012,Amlin final-2013,Rabo final-2012,2013.
Madigan has proven himself in far more games.Whereas Gopperth seems to be still living of the first 2 games in the Heino.May I remind you that the best game Leinster played in the last 2 years, was with Ian at the reins.
Basically I just can't get my head around picking Gopperth over Ian, when the facts are Ian is more experienced,younger,more potential and a better kicker.

I don't think he did say that.

I'll say one thing about Madigans kicking,he misses touch from a penalty almost every game and that's inexcusable,he also seems to be running the ball far less this season.I'm only guessing but I'd say MoC is asking him to play like a more conventional flyhalf and his poor form is down to this adjustment in his game.He isn't doing what he's good at anymore and right now is way behind Jackson for Ireland imo and I don't have any complaints about Gopperth starting on Sunday either.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Gopperth has had a better season than Madigan and truth be told but for the fact he is Irish I feel Madigan would be a comfortable 2nd choice. Please don't confuse this with saying Madigan is a poor player but maybe some added pressure (without Sexton) and a new coach has just knocked his game a wee bit

I'm struggling to see why Madigan would be comfortable 2nd choice. His kicking percentages are 15% higher than Gopperths , he brings more flair to his game, I agree that at the minute Gopperth suits O'Connor's gameplan more, however Ian needs gametime to get his head around it.
So your saying that though Ian is a better kicker, better passer and more creative, plus younger, he still is only picked because he's Irish?
This seems like a terribly illinformed statement!

Did I say Madigan is a better passer, more creative or a better kicker? Seems like a terribly stupid thing to say given .... Well I didn't actually say them. I have also to be bowled over by his 'flair' this season.  

I asked not too long ago why Madigan was suddenly starting all the games after the AIs and was told by possibly the biggest Leinster fan on the board that they believed it was Schmidt at work. This has been also supposed by a couple of lads I'm in regular contact with down in D4 whether it is true or  not. Given that it is hardly unreasonable to suggest that he would be O'Connors second choice.

Madigans kicking percentage has held up admirably during what is a difficult time in his young career but it's not stretching it to suggest that the guy who was running things for 3 of your 4 losses so far this season is second to the guy who was in charge of 1, especially seeing as Gopperths intervention last week was instrumental in it not being a fifth loss.

Why get so precious about Madigan. No one is saying he is a bad player. Just that circumstances and possibly a slight knock in confidence have effected him this season. I think he has the arrogance/confidence that all good 10's need to bounce back but if I was picking the team for the two must win Heineken games I would go with Gopperth.

OK,OK, first of all, I dont know how you can say Ian is worse at kicking when he has a better kicking percentage,considering Ian's passing is his best trait, it's hard to argue that he is not at least on par with Gopperth on that.
I can tell you that Schmidt had not input on Madigans inclusion as starting 10 recently, otherwise he would be starting 10 tomorrow which is not the case.
The reason I'm "precious" of Madigan is as follows;
Ian's told me himself, not knowing whether he's the no.1 outhalf is ruining his confidence.
He's younger and has more potential(Gopperth at 30 is as good as he is gonna get).
Ian has much more experience playing in big games.Ex-HEC final 2011,2012,Amlin final-2013,Rabo final-2012,2013.
Madigan has proven himself in far more games.Whereas Gopperth seems to be still living of the first 2 games in the Heino.May I remind you that the best game Leinster played in the last 2 years, was with Ian at the reins.
Basically I just can't get my head around picking Gopperth over Ian, when the facts are Ian is more experienced,younger,more potential and a better kicker.

I don't think he did say that.

I'll say one thing about Madigans kicking,he misses touch from a penalty almost every game and that's inexcusable,he also seems to be running the ball far less this season.I'm only guessing but I'd say MoC is asking him to play like a more conventional flyhalf and his poor form is down to this adjustment in his game.He isn't doing what he's good at anymore and right now is way behind Jackson for Ireland imo and I don't have any complaints about Gopperth starting on Sunday either.

Gopperth has also been guilty of missing touch lately which really is a  strange error for these guys to be continually making.

If MOC is telling Madigan to play a certain way then I don't think MOC is the right man for Leinster. Madigan is the guy to take Leinster forward but if Madigan keeps getting dropped in and out of the team I can't see him staying at Leinster when his contract expires or maybe even sooner (like Conway).

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Gopperth has also been guilty of missing touch lately which really is a  strange error for these guys to be continually making.

If MOC is telling Madigan to play a certain way then I don't think MOC is the right man for Leinster. Madigan is the guy to take Leinster forward but if Madigan keeps getting dropped in and out of the team I can't see him staying at Leinster when his contract expires or maybe even sooner (like Conway).

In fairness that's complete conjecture from me but personally I think we need to see a lot more from Leinster or MoC will come under pressure.Aimless kicking has become way too prevalent and that has to be coming from the coaches,the players didn't do it under Schmidt so they aren't going to change tack unless they are directed to do so.We also look very blunt in attack one or two games excepted and the maul is now our most potent attacking weapon,our pack is good enough that we'll always be a decent team but if we want to be a top team we'll need more.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Gopperth has also been guilty of missing touch lately which really is a  strange error for these guys to be continually making.

If MOC is telling Madigan to play a certain way then I don't think MOC is the right man for Leinster. Madigan is the guy to take Leinster forward but if Madigan keeps getting dropped in and out of the team I can't see him staying at Leinster when his contract expires or maybe even sooner (like Conway).

In fairness that's complete conjecture from me but personally I think we need to see a lot more from Leinster or MoC will come under pressure.Aimless kicking has become way too prevalent and that has to be coming from the coaches,the players didn't do it under Schmidt so they aren't going to change tack unless they are directed to do so.We also look very blunt in attack one or two games excepted and the maul is now our most potent attacking weapon,our pack is good enough that we'll always be a decent team but if we want to be a top team we'll need more.

The jury is still very much out on MOC I'm afraid. I was a big defender of his early in the season especially after the Ospreys' and Castres' games but with the way he has treated the 10 position and our general tactics this season I'm not so sure about him.

I would love a coach who has been there during the Schmidt regime. Hopefully one day Gibbes or if Leo turns out to be a great forwards coach he could potentially be promoted.

Ok lads. word in the Madigan camp is that he is very philosophical about his situation.

Himself and JG get on very well and look out for eachother, help eachother and try to get the best game on the park for Leinster whether they start or come off the bench.

This may sound like something he would tell a coach, but it does not come from a coaching or team mate source.

Personally I think Mads is hampered a little by his versitillity. Being able to play 12 and 15 may get you in more squads but will not get you more starts at 10.

Paddy Jackson may be ahead of him for Ireland when Sexton is missing but Ian will probably be ahead for a bench spot when Jonny is there.

Paddy having no competition for his spot for Ulster has swings and roundabouts. we will see how it goes in the longer term.

So I hear Gopperth had a good game

A bit churlish of Shaggy to ignore him for the motm award though.

I'm really torn on the bench for Ireland. If Sexton goes down injured in the first five minutes I would definitely prefer Jackson to come on. But Madigan can make a brilliant impact coming on at 12 in the second half. It probably depends on who is 23- if it's Fitzgerald, Bowe or Henshaw I would go with Jackson. If it's Earls, Trimble or Zebo I'd go with Madigan.

Gopperth has probably nailed down his spot as first choice with Leinster after that display at least for the next month or two.

In fairness Gopperth did miss 7 tackles. When Jennings came on he defended the 10 channel.

Notch wrote:I'm really torn on the bench for Ireland.

Me too....I'm torn between Sexton and Keatley ...

Notch wrote:I'm really torn on the bench for Ireland. If Sexton goes down injured in the first five minutes I would definitely prefer Jackson to come on. But Madigan can make a brilliant impact coming on at 12 in the second half. It probably depends on who is 23- if it's Fitzgerald, Bowe or Henshaw I would go with Jackson. If it's Earls, Trimble or Zebo I'd go with Madigan.

Gopperth has probably nailed down his spot as first choice with Leinster after that display at least for the next month or two.

I know that Schmidt will select Sexton to start but has he deserved it? He has been playing in a side getting humped, played way too much and looks constantly tired. I would actually start Jackson over him right now and have Madigan or JJ on the bench.

Would be a strong statement with heaslip and sob looking abroad

Golden wrote:Would be a strong statement with heaslip and sob looking abroad

It would certainly make them sit back and think long and hard about leaving and too me, that cant be a bad thing. Its clear to everyone that Sexton has dropped badly in form since leaving so any excuse to dissuade other stars to leave is ok for me.

The IRFU don't want to keep both. They want one if not both to go to save finances.

They certaintly seem to be handing out a number of new Central Contract - 2 at Ulster in the last couple of weeks (Payne and Fitzpatrick) alone.

Is this in anticipation of losing some (Heaslip) and/or not having give others a CC (SOB)

???

Maybe they are anticipating the prospect of setting up 4 new provinces if the existing teams jump ship to the anglo-welsh league?